From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #104 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, April 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 104 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: April 13 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Later Day Joni & The Song I'd Live In [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Joni at the Beeb and the Hippie Movement [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... [SCJoniGuy@ao] Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... ["Bree Mcdono] Re: The song I'd live in [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: was Sometimes I'm Hippy, now TNT tribute [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: The song I'd live in [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy ["Mark or Travis" ] Dennis Hopper is wrongly quoted ["William" ] Re: another member of the Sherelle fan club ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: another member of the Sherelle fan club [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: another member of the Sherelle fan club [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 03:01:28 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: April 13 On April 13 the following item was published: 2000: "Q&A" - Rolling Stone (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000413rs.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:21:02 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Later Day Joni & The Song I'd Live In Two great threads - got me to thinking round and round. While I tend to agree with Fred about the melody thing being more special in her earlier work, I would offer some words of caution to him. No, it is not heretical in any way to critique and even criticize. However, as I confessed several times to this list in the past, there can be some danger in doing so in Joni's case ;-) For example, while I was so mesmerized by her melody lines and personal/confessional/romantic lyrics of the first 6 albums, I rejected Hissing and Hejira, which were very different from her earlier works in those two respects. (I would say "initially", but the rejection lasted over 20 years). Wrong ! Worse, I was openly critical of her shift in emphasis toward the arrangements and accompaniment and jazz influence and subject matter beyond (a bit cooler, a bit more third personal, less idealistic than) the confessional romanticism of her earlier works. Although I was defensive enough to caveat my criticism with words to the effect of "I am sure she is just going off in other directions because of her talent, but she is losing me", in my heart at that time I did not think she was as good at the new genres as she was in her earlier ones. Wrong again ! Later, I bought WTRF and DED - even worse, I thought - and passed on the others altogether. Wrong again ! Then, about 5 years ago I started picking her "later" work up again (she was always #1 with me, if only for her first 6 albums). First with TI, which inspired me to try NRH, then I gave Hejira and HOSL another chance and ....I was confronted with the awful truth of what I had said 20 years earlier. Couldn't (still can't) erase it from my conscience. Better not to try. Turns out my tastes and I needed to grow up a bit. In her later works she has done more with harmonies, counterpoint, social commentary, and instrumentation than her earlier reliance on melody and single instrumental accompaniment. One need not prefer it - but I for one have learned not to hold my opinion of her work in higher regard than Joni's own opinion of it. If she thinks it's good, and I do not, she as almost certainly right :-) Speaking of which, if she likes Sex Kills (and I agree that it is obvious that she does), I would be even more hesitant to dismiss it. Watch out - its virtues may sneak up on you from behind some day and goose you ;-). As a second point of caution, if Dylan (not one of my favorites) was effusive about it, it probably is a pretty good piece of lyrical writing. (Then there is my wondering whether his rare praise for that work lifted it higher in Joni's esteem - how dare I go there ?) On the subject of honesty, I agree with Bob M that Jericho is a brutally honest song. I have expressed my view in the past that in Jericho's case it exposes some of her failings in the area of love - shows her warts, if you will. But her honesty is an integral part of her greatness as an artist - I accept her warts, and respect that she shows them to me - er, us. ;-) Still on the subject of honesty, sometimes she takes me in her third person work to places I am/have been/ wish I were not. Songs I would rather not live. It may not have gotten me out of them, but it has helped me to keep them in better perspective and deal with them with better balance. You could have been more Than a name on the door On the 33rd floor in the air More than a credit card Swimming pool in the back yard While you still have the time You could get away and find A better life, you know the grind Is so ungrateful Racing cards, whiskey bars (bridge cards, chord bars, four pars) ........No one cares who you really are I know it gets hard Keeping the wheels turning And the wife she keeps the key She's so pleased to be A part of the arrangement You could have been more You could have been more You could have been more To those of us for whom this song has held up pretty well over the years (sometimes crossing generations within a family), I must say it is quite a haunting piece of work - for a 25 year year old to have written. Not exactly right , perhaps (or is it ?) - but too close for comfort. And this is perhaps #50 on my list of favorites of hers. In a world where nothing is right and nothing is wrong (?) or where everything on our side is right and everything on their side is wrong (?), Borderline is a pretty timely (timeless ?) piece of writing - although I think it is below her norm as a piece of music. I may be wrong about that last criticism, however ;-) Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:09:48 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni at the Beeb and the Hippie Movement In a message dated 13/04/02 08:04:18 GMT Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:54:49 +0100 > From: "owen" > Subject: Joni at the Beeb and the Hippie Movement > > Hey guys, > Did anyone else think Joan came across as a little humourless on that Hippie > programme? I know everything is made in the editing process but I would've > liked to have seen a flash of that wicked grin! Yes, I didn't think she was at her best. She looked tired and a little bored by the whole thing to me. I imagine she finds it a little tedious to be questioned about just that very short period in her life when she would probably prefer to talk about, what she considers to be, far more significant periods. The only time we glimpsed the wicked grin was at the end of her rendition of BYT at Woodstock (I think). Thought overall that the > show put her over well though, she looked so cool singing 'Woodstock' at the > Isle of White festival - I'm in the unfortunate position of having seen > little of Joni on TV (save for the 'Last Waltz' and PWWAM), so little > moments like this are enought to thrill me. Joni did get more coverage than I expected in the program. Sadly, it will probably have served to enhance peoples opinion that she only ever sang BYT, Chelsea Morning and Woodstock. Still we do have to be grateful for what we got I suppose. As someone else said, there was some interesting stuff in the program, especially Arthur Brown's interview. In fact, the whole hippie > movement got me thinking. I believe I'm right in saying we need artists that > are going to believe in something and say something about it to my > generation. I always considered myself a cynic, but when I see we have > amoral governments chasing votes and an amoral media just selling and > selling all the time (unattainable beauty, lifestyles etc.), I start to feel > that hippie idealism creeping through! > > Peace, > > Owen > > p.s I blame Freud for the state of the western world, all that stuff about > self self self - no wonder nobody looks at the bigger picture! > Comments from psychologists please! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:17:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy <> Nathan, Hopefully we're much more than a "fan club". There's nothing wrong with criticism of Joni as long as it's respectful. I say that with the realization that *I'm* probably the biggest offender of this "rule", what with some of the comments I've made regarding some of her work and those Miyake dresses. Anyway, the only reason any of us would be critical would be because we cared deeply about her & her work. After all, if we didn't, we could just let it pass without comment and probably wouldn't be here in the first place. Bob NP: Michael Holland, "A Case of You" (one of the best ones!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:27:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... <> Hi John! While this thought has also occured to me, if this is the case it's a very expensive route. Hiring an orchestra and making the kinds of recordings she's doing ain't cheap, plus she's done some extensive packaging presentations as well. I'm inclined to believe that she WANTS the muse to revisit (I pray this is true), and she's just exercising her right to do some projects she's always dreamed of. It also occured to me that she's probably trying to put out records that Myrtle will like. There seems to still be a lot of desire on Joni's part to gain her Mom's respect for her work. Bob NP: George Hamilton IV, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:30:42 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy In a message dated 4/12/02 10:42:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: > When she laughs and smiles or bcomes animated a lot of > the age comes off. > > This is so true. When I met Joni for the first time at the TNT Tribute, she > looked absolutely beautiful! I remember thinking to myself, how flawless > her skin was. I just stared at every line on her face. She has a few, but > not many. Hell, I can only hope to look that good 10 years from now. She > did have make-up on though. I wonder if that's the difference. Her hair > looked recently highlighted as well. Perhaps she spent the day at the > salon. (shining skin and shining hair) My brother-in-law once remarked to > me that Joni looks like an old sea hag now. I wanted to tear his heart out! > He sure knows how to push my buttons. LOL! > > rose ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:40:43 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... >It also occured to me that she's probably trying to put out >records that Myrtle will like. There seems to still be a lot of desire on >Joni's part to gain her Mom's respect for her work. I think you are so right here. I think trying to please your parents is universal. A person can be famous,worldly,sophisicated...and all they really, really, want to do, is please them. Bree >Bob > >NP: George Hamilton IV, "The Circle Game" _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:48:42 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: The song I'd live in I could live with that I suppose if I'd have to choose it would be Amelia, followed by Pat's Solo, right on into Hejira, with Pat on lead guitar I wish that he was here tonight It's so hard to obey His sad request of me to kindly stay away So this is how I hide the hurt As the road leads cursed and charmed I tell Amelia it was just a false alarm Now here's a man and a woman sitting on a rock They're either going to thaw out or freeze Listen Strains of Pat Metheny Coming through the snow and the pinewood trees I'm porous with travel fever But you know I'm so glad to be on my own Still somehow the slightest touch of a stranger Can set up trembling in my bones rose from nj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:16:32 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy >This is so true. When I met Joni for the first time at the TNT >Tribute, >she looked absolutely beautiful! WOW!! You were there. Would you mind sharing share a little or lot about your experience. I would love to hear anything about it. (any little tidbit..nothing is too small) >My brother-in-law once remarked to > > me that Joni looks like an old sea hag now. I wanted to tear his heart >out! > > He sure knows how to push my buttons. LOL! I just think she looks fantastic,always have,always will. Incidentally,one of my nephews,who is eighteen, saw the PWWAM thing with me (video)and I told him her age.....he couldn't believe it. He guessed her being in her thirties. I thought this was so cute. Not a fan of hers, yet,but he loves to watch her right hand. And made some comments like AWESOME. He is in love with Diana Krall though.(I think I heard the word sexy) I bought him her signed poster from "The Look Of Love" tour...he had it framed and it is hanging near his pool table. (He guessed Diana being in her twenties) :-) I love this kid!! Bree > > rose _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:57:15 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: was Sometimes I'm Hippy, now TNT tribute In a message dated 4/13/02 12:16:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > WOW!! You were there. Would you mind sharing share a little or lot about > your experience. I would love to hear anything about it. (any little > tidbit..nothing is too small) > > There were quite a few of us there Bree, however at the time I didn't know anyone on the JMDL. I remember I snuck out at lunchtime and drove over to the Wiz and bought a ticket. I went alone and managed to sneak my digital camera in, but the ballroom was so dark, Joni came out looking like a black cat on a tar roof. During intermission I meandered my way downstairs and over by the boxseat she was sitting in. Security wasn't too tight, otherwise I would have never made it this far. I stopped for a moment apprehensive and then said to myself, what the hell. I'm going for it. This won't happen again I told myself LOL! I walked up to the box directly in front of her. There was another fan trying to get her attention without any success, so I yelled Joni in my bestest, loudest, smokey voice and her attention I did get. I pointed at the other fan cowardly trying to figure in my head what I was going to say. I felt a little foolish and crazed needless to say. She then very graciously got up from her seat a came toward us :) By the time I got to speak, the orchestra was tuning up and she couldn't hear a damn word I was saying, so I just reached my hand out to grasp hers. I pouted and she just smiled and turned away. She's been eating a banana and I got some on my hand,LMAO! I then went outside and shaking like a leaf in desperate need of a cigarette. I met the girl who spoke to her outside as well. We just stood there mesmerized, both in disbelief of the moment we'd both just shared. I was really kewl! Dang! rose from NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:10:46 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: The song I'd live in In a message dated 4/13/02 11:49:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RoseMJoy@aol.com writes: > I could live with that > I suppose if I'd have to choose it would be Amelia, followed by Pat's Solo, > > right on into Hejira, with Pat on lead guitar > > Be careful what you wish for. Just arrived in the mail: Joni Mitchell: Hejira Live! and covers Vol. 28, oh and Sherelle's CD! I've got lot's of good listening music on this fine Saturday. Back to cleaning my house! LOL Thanks Bob, thanks Sherelle :0) love you dudes NP: Amelia, Burbank, CA 5/29/98 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:16:19 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy > I can't believe Hopper introducing her as the "high priestess of getting > high" I don't get that at all. I never thought of Joni in that context. To me Joni represented clarity in the midst of all the craziness of the 70s. I think of Grace Slick as the 'high priestess of getting high'. We know Joni did her share of smoking pot & experimenting with drugs but I never got the feeling that she advocated getting high anywhere in her music or her public persona. Oh I admit I listened to and enjoyed Joni many times under the influence of wacky weed. Back before it was so potent that it started making me nearly comatose, I used to love to listen to music when stoned. But I don't have a strong association of Joni with getting high. As a side note, I did very much associate the music of Yes with getting high. Recently I bought the remastered 'Close To the Edge' on cd and have listened to it a few times on my commute. I popped it in Friday on my way home, cranked it up and am very pleased to say that I was just as exhilarated by that music as I used to be and entirely without the benefit of any mind altering substance. What an amazing record! Hey, Paz, I've read a review of their latest. It sounds like it might be worth checking out. What's your opinion? Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:30:35 +0100 From: "William" Subject: Dennis Hopper is wrongly quoted Just got to clarify a misunderstanding about Dennis Hopper and the "high priestess" quote from When Hippies Ruled ... Dennis Hopper didn't actually say that she was the high priestess. It was Kathy Burke the commentator as a lead in to the programme. I have sent Les a copy of "what Joni said" in the programme (a full transcript) - lead ins, background music etc plus bits from the press. It might go into the archives at a later date. Anyone interested in a copy contact me off line. It's little long to post on the JMDL. WtS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:51:44 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: another member of the Sherelle fan club Just wanted to add my two cents. I first heard Sherelle sing on a tribute tape that JMDLers made a few years ago. I remember hearing her sing 'Edith and the Kingpin' accompanied by nothing but the snapping of her own fingers. I told the list & I told Sherelle way back then that in my very humble opinion, she has an incredible voice & a genuine gift for singing. I also told Sherelle that she was born to sing & that she should pursue her dream of doing just that. I'm glad you're recording, Sherelle. It sounds like you have a few more songs in the can since the tape you sent me awhile back. I would love to hear them. I would gladly pay money for anything you record. I'm one fan who's hoping you go all the way to the top. Personally, I think you're that good. Love, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:05:48 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: another member of the Sherelle fan club As usual, Mark, my twin separated at birth, posts just what I wanted to say. This is a great cd. I will be unveiling it to Florida tomorrow at a dinner party I'm giving. CD's in the player: BSN Betty Buckley Live Judy Collins Voices Stormy Weather and Sherelle I can assure you, she holds her own! Jerry Mark or Travis wrote: > Just wanted to add my two cents. I first heard Sherelle sing on a tribute > tape that JMDLers made a few years ago. I remember hearing her sing 'Edith > and the Kingpin' accompanied by nothing but the snapping of her own fingers. > I told the list & I told Sherelle way back then that in my very humble > opinion, she has an incredible voice & a genuine gift for singing. I also > told Sherelle that she was born to sing & that she should pursue her dream > of doing just that. > > I'm glad you're recording, Sherelle. It sounds like you have a few more > songs in the can since the tape you sent me awhile back. I would love to > hear them. I would gladly pay money for anything you record. I'm one fan > who's hoping you go all the way to the top. Personally, I think you're that > good. > > Love, > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:11:20 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Joni and Jeff Buckley "He had originally wanted to call it Cafe Days: Live at Sin-e implying it would be the first in a series of intimate live recordings to be released throughout his career. It's thought the umbrella title was inspired by the line 'these dark cafe days' in Joni Mitchell's 'The last Time I Saw Richard.' " Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:26:53 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: another member of the Sherelle fan club In a message dated 4/13/02 1:52:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > I also > told Sherelle that she was born to sing & that she should pursue her dream > of doing just that. > Woo Hoo I'll say! Dang Sherelle, you go girl! LOVE your CD. The clarity is wonderful. Thank you sooo much. love, rose from NJ NP: Sherelle's Walk on By ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:49:08 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: another member of the Sherelle fan club > and Sherelle > > I can assure you, she holds her own! she certainly does. John had no idea this was an 'amatuer'. Mainly because sherrelle sounds like she has done this for years and is already an established Diva. > > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:01:06 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... Bob wrote: >>Hiring an orchestra and making the kinds of recordings she's doing ain't cheap, plus she's done some extensive packaging presentations as well. << I pulled out my copy of BSN this week after reading all of these posts...the only disc that I had of the album is one of the limited edition ones. I haven't played it in at least six months, and the entire disc (which started to crack soon after I bought it) has cracked nearly in two. It also had a bunch of imperfections and skips on it from day one. Has anyone else had this problem? Was this just a bad bunch of cds? I seem to remember others having trouble... Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:14:27 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... > I pulled out my copy of BSN this week after reading all of these posts...the > only disc that I had of the album is one of the limited edition ones. I > haven't played it in at least six months, and the entire disc (which started > to crack soon after I bought it) has cracked nearly in two. I seem to remember others > having trouble... The way that disk was packaged was incredibly stupid. The box was nice & the whole idea was a good one. But they overlooked one little detail. The cds were not properly anchored inside the boxes. So they came loose & moved around. Most of them were scratched all to hell & back again by the time anyone bought them. The result was that they wouldn't play properly. They would skip or get to a point & not play at all. I had to send one back to CDNow & get a replacement. I was lucky. The second one played fine. However, when I sent one to my friend Melanie for her birthday, the cd was once again unplayable. Finally CDNow was nice enough to let Mel keep the box & all the goodies inside it and they sent her a regular jewel case edition of the actual cd for no extra charge. Doing an early Joni retrospective tonight. Have listened to STAS & Clouds. np: Morning Morgantown - just started LOTC Mark E in wet & windy Shoreline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy well, my mom looks great.. alison e. in slc. - --- colin wrote: > > next we're faced with a ravaged old hippy queen. > > I agree, she did not look wonderful. but then > neither do most of the women I > know past their mid fifties! Why should we expect > Joni to be any different to > any other late 50's woman? Are we comparing her to > plastic fantastic Cher or the > ridiculous Joan Collins? > Joni looked like a real person! Surely that is in > keeping with her work, being > real? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #104 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?