From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #74 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, March 15 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 074 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters ["Paul Castle" ] JMDL Digest V2002 #112 [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: "Just Like A Woman"; "Suzanne" (VLJC) ["Timothy Spong" ] Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Was there a #112? (sjc?) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... [WARREN901@aol.] Re: Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me [Gary Zack ] Re: Kind Words for Dolly [JRMCo1@aol.com] fleischer ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... [anne@sandstrom.] Re: Kind Words for Dolly [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Cover of "Passion Play" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni & Leonard [Steve Dulson ] Re: Kind Words for Dolly (some JC) ["Jerome ." ] Re: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters [Rick and Susan ] Screen Saver Update [Ken ] Re: Cover of "Passion Play" [chiaroscuro@SNET.Net] Digest #112 was indispensable !! 100% JC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:47:51 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters >Tuesday, March 26 at 7:00 pm - Joni Mitchell - Part 1 >Tuesday, April 2 at 7:00 pm - Joni Mitchell - Part 2 Thanks so much for posting all this wonderful news, Simon - If anyone has the time (and facilities) to make a copy on PAL, I would be happy to send the 'loonies' and would be eternally grateful. >PS: there may? be a 4th. May the 4th be with you! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:17:57 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: VG8 > Oh, I do love the VG-8! And it's true! I love sitting down with it > and being able to flip from the Black Crow tuning into the tuning for > Magdalene Laundries without even thinking twice! Sometimes I sit down with > it and flip through all the tunings, playing a little bit of each song along > the way. It's really fun! > > > Marian > > Wait a minute, I thought this kind of gizmo was for sound patches (and 8-vegetable juice cocktails). It does tunings too? How is this miracle accomplished? Do you need a special e-guitar? Details please on this potential lifesaver. Thanks Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:37:08 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #112 Hmmm. Just noticed something. For some strange reason, I never received JMDL Digest #112. Would someone please forward it to me personally? I'd really appreciate it! XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:49:27 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: "Just Like A Woman"; "Suzanne" (VLJC) > Big Walt in SF wrote: >(1) This may be an old discussion for some of you, but the song "Just Like >Me" almost seems like Joni's answer to the song (almost certainly by Dylan, >but I seem to remember quite a few other people sang it, even at least one >woman) that went: > >"She [blanks] just like a woman, >She [blanks] just like a woman, >And she [blanks] just like a woman, >But she breaks (just) like a little girl." > Yes, this is a Bob Dylan song, and at least one woman has covered it: Judy Collins (there I go again!) had a whole album titled "Judy Collins Sings Bob Dylan ... Just Like A Woman." >(2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", >you know, the one that starts "Suzanne takes you down/to a place by the >river/..." I don't know who wrote it -- it may even be "traditional", but >many artists have covered it. "Suzanne" is by Joni's fellow Canadian Leonard Cohen. (J.C. covered this one, too.) I get the jmdl on digest, and probably, others will have supplied this info earlier. And I'll have to defer to others to respond to your inquiries about parallels to Joni's compositions. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:19:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... <> It's possible...that's a good point too, Walt. Don't know that anyone's ever made it. "Just Like A Woman" was from Dylan's '66 release Blonde On Blonde, and Joni's song was most likely penned in '66-'67, so it could have been a response of sorts. It would be worthwhile to visit the lyrics of both and see where the similarities lie. It IS certainly common knowledge that Joni was listening to Dylan. <<(2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", >> "reminds you"? ;~) It sounds like a basic re-write to me. BUT I don't know much about Cohen as I can't get past his yucky singing voice. They hung out together and did some early folk fests together, whether one influenced the other here I don't know, but the similarity is SO strong that it would be hard to believe that the two songs were written independently. This would be another question for Joni for whoever sees her next! :~) Bob NP: Jewel, "Pieces Of You" you know, the one that starts "Suzanne takes you down/to a place by the river/..." I don't know who wrote it -- it may even be "traditional", but many artists have covered it. Anyhoo, "TWoI" reminds me musically (i.e., as opposed to lyrically") to the Suzanne song -- not exactly, but there are a lot of parallels. Anybody else think so? My apologies to those who haven't heard thre songs -- at least the lyrics to them are (I think) at jmdl.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:10:03 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > (2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", > you know, It's more than similar (I just heard this song for the first time a coupla nights ago) it is a lift. Same music, some of the lyrics mirror the original Leonard Cohen song. I'm sure she was conscious of what she was doing, and my guess is that she intended it as a homage or love-note to Cohen, who she surely bumped into on the coffeehouse circuit. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:03 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... Walt wrote: >The questions: > >(1) This may be an old discussion for some of you, but the song "Just Like >Me" almost seems like Joni's answer to the song (almost certainly by Dylan, >but I seem to remember quite a few other people sang it, even at least one >woman) that went: > >"She [blanks] just like a woman, >She [blanks] just like a woman, >And she [blanks] just like a woman, >But she breaks (just) like a little girl." > >My memory of this song is obviously sketchy, but it came back to me when I >heard Joni's "Just Like Me" (in which Joni describes the object of her >affections as doing certain things, often confusing behavior, making him >"Just Like Me"), which seems to be almost an answer to the (Dylan?) song. Is >that possible? I don't know the chronology of the two songs, when each was >written. Any comments? I know that Joni has at best mixed feelings about >the Women's Movement, etc., but maybe she was fed up with lyrics like the >above, in which underneath every together woman, there's a breakable little >girl, and this was her response. Just a thought. The song is "Just Like a Woman" by Bob Dylan, that originally appeared on Blonde on Blonde. Although the lyrics have gone through some revisions over the years, the original chorus went: She takes just like a woman, yes, she does She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does And she aches just like a woman But she breaks just like a little girl. I don't see any correlation between Bob's song and Joni's "Just Like Me." >(2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", >you know, the one that starts "Suzanne takes you down/to a place by the >river/..." I don't know who wrote it -- it may even be "traditional", but >many artists have covered it. Anyhoo, "TWoI" reminds me musically (i.e., as >opposed to lyrically") to the Suzanne song -- not exactly, but there are a >lot of parallels. Anybody else think so? My apologies to those who haven't >heard thre songs -- at least the lyrics to them are (I think) at jmdl.com. "Suzanne" is by Leonard Cohen and appears on his first album. Originally published as a poem. I don't know "The Wizard of Is" -- it's not at jmdl.com -- although I am reminded of a song by Tom Rapp (Pearls Before Swine) -- "down misty rivers of because/into the Land of Was." Obviously this is of very little help indeed. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:30 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Cover of "Passion Play" Gail Anne Dorsey (bass player for Bowie and Tears for Fears among others) recently performed live on KCRW. She did a cover of "Passion Play" that was very straight but quite nice. She reminds me a bit of Phoebe Snow. I recorded it and can supply a .wav or .mp3 for anyone who wants it. Brenda n.p.: Gail Anne Dorsey - "Passion Play" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:16:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me OK Walt, I've looked over both songs. Like I said, Dylan's song was first released in 1966, Joni's is copyrighted 1968. So the chronology certainly works out, but I'm not sure that it's a "response" song per se. But there are some interesting comparisons. Dylan sings: "I can't stay in here - Ain't it clear that I just can't fit. Yes, I believe it's time for us to quit." Joni sings: "If he'd drop his defenses you'd see through the stone to the heart of the man, but the moment he senses you've seen him he'll leave you as fast as he can." Dylan sings: "It was raining from the first, and I was dying there of thirst, so I came in here" Joni sings: "just like me, he's lookin' for a door standing open, saying welcome, lay your troubles down" Joni also describes the object of her song as: "so independent, he acts like he couldn't care less for us all. He's someone's descendent, their child, though he'll never acknowledge their call". The first part of that is a fair description of Dylan's detachment, and the last might/would apply to the fact that he changed his name from that given to him by his "descendent". (Zimmerman to Dylan) She also says: "the songs that he sings they have loneliness woven between every line", which is a fair assessment of "Just Like A Woman". To see the complete lyric to "Just Like Me", you can go to: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/JustLikeMe.cfm I'm a rookie with Dylan lyrics, so I'd certainly like to hear what you Dylanites think. Bob NP: Jethro Tull, "Witches Promise" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:28:43 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Was there a #112? (sjc?) Hi, Les (and all), Was there a digest #112? I didn't get it (got #111 and #113), and given how my luck's running lately, didn't know if it was just me, or whether the automatic numbering device (or whatever) just skipped a beat. Best, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:01:00 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... hello joinitites ! i wanted to let walt know that the song " suzanne " was written by leonard cohen. speaking of leonard, someone mentioned a photo in an earlier post of joni and leonard at the newport folk festival in "67. ( the photo was by david gahr.) i have a small paper back book entitled, " joni mitchell: her life, her loves, her music, " by leonore fleischer , published in 1976. it is filled with wonderful photos including the one mentioned in the post. i received it from a friend the year it was published and have always cherished it for the photos. ( said friend was constanly picking up " little joni things " for me .) the book is in a 7" x 10" format and was published by flash books, is anyone familair with it ? ( i always thought it odd that her music was the last thing mentioned in the title. perhaps it was the way that it rolled off the tongue that was important !) i also have a book entitled, " rock lives," by timothy white .it was published in 1990. the book has short bios and interveiws with about 50 some artists. joni's bio is in the section called pilgrims, it is about 12 pages long. the book is hardcover and has quite a bit of interesting info on all included. moving right along... in the checkout line at the grocery today i noticed life magazine has done a " rock at fifty " publication. i had to look and see if our joan was mentioned. i was disappointed that there was a only a short paragraph and a clouds era photo. ( i wanted there to be a whole chapter devoted to my idol !!!) well enough already... joni and then some, warren keith p.s. i want to take this opportunity to thank the academy...umm i mean simon, for the wonderfully informative and enjoyable post on upcoming " things joni. " i for one am tickled pink !!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:34:56 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me I've taken a particular interest in the song, "Just Like Me." I am sure that I read somewhere or heard on an interview (?) or read in a book, that the song was written for Stephen Stills....I wish I could find the source, it may be Hinton's book (which I know may be unreliable) or the Joni Mitchell Companion, but I'm sure I saw it somewhere. I'll try to find out if I can find something more concrete, but I for some reason had it firmly stuck in my head that the song was written for Stephen. Best regards all, Gary SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > OK Walt, I've looked over both songs. Like I said, Dylan's song was first released in 1966, Joni's is copyrighted 1968. So the chronology certainly works out, but I'm not sure that it's a "response" song per se. > > But there are some interesting comparisons. Dylan sings: > > "I can't stay in here - Ain't it clear that I just can't fit. Yes, I believe it's time for us to quit." > > Joni sings: > > "If he'd drop his defenses you'd see through the stone to the heart of the man, but the moment he senses you've seen him he'll leave you as fast as he can." > > Dylan sings: > > "It was raining from the first, and I was dying there of thirst, so I came in here" > > Joni sings: > > "just like me, he's lookin' for a door standing open, saying welcome, lay your troubles down" > > Joni also describes the object of her song as: > > "so independent, he acts like he couldn't care less for us all. He's someone's descendent, their child, though he'll never acknowledge their call". > > The first part of that is a fair description of Dylan's detachment, and the last might/would apply to the fact that he changed his name from that given to him by his "descendent". (Zimmerman to Dylan) > > She also says: > > "the songs that he sings they have loneliness woven between every line", which is a fair assessment of "Just Like A Woman". > > To see the complete lyric to "Just Like Me", you can go to: > > http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/JustLikeMe.cfm > > I'm a rookie with Dylan lyrics, so I'd certainly like to hear what you Dylanites think. > > Bob > > NP: Jethro Tull, "Witches Promise" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:34:27 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Kind Words for Dolly I wrote: >Moreover, Dolly [Parton] has never struck me as a harbinger of that which is pleasing to the ear. Fred writes: >May I suggest you check out her two recent >roots/bluegrass albums, The Grass is Blue and Little >Sparrow? You might change your mind. She sounds >exceedingly pleasing to my ears ... always soulful, >sweet and funky by turns, and very down to earth. You may, and I shall. Thanks for the referral, Fred. Your point is well made. In fairness to Ms. Parton, I really should check out her more recent work before I make a blanket statement like the above. Despite having grown up in Texas (or perhaps because I did), I'm somewhat twang intolerant when it comes to my listening pleasure. My ears are still ringing from Dolly's "Nine to Five" era stuff. Back then she seemed to be more sequins than musical substance to me. When it comes to country music, I'm more of a Patsy Cline man. A tough standard to meet, I think. But, I'm more enamored of bluegrass and roots music with each passing day, and I did enjoy Dolly's collaborations with Emmylou Harris and Linda Ronstadt a while back... So, I'll give Dolly's latest a listen. Thanks for reminding me to keep an open mind. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:03:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: fleischer hello WK [we have the same initials], i have the fleischer book too. i bought it 22 years ago in columbia, missouri, of all places. i've always been amazed at how horrible joni looks on page 67, and i've always wondered who julie is on page 51. for years and years this book was the only thing on joni. and then, thanks goodness came wally breese and les... wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:01:05 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... > i have a small paper back book entitled, " > joni mitchell: her life, her loves, her music, " > by leonore fleischer , published in 1976. it is filled with wonderful photos > including the one mentioned in the post. i received it from a friend the > year it was published and have always cherished it for the photos. ( said > friend was constanly picking up " little joni things " for me .) the book > is in a 7" x 10" format and was published by flash books, is anyone familair > with it ? Yes! I remember buying this book at the time. I had it for quite a few years, then lent it to someone. Well, that was the last I saw of it :-( But I think pretty much all the photos are on the Web site now. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:28:16 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Kind Words for Dolly In a message dated 3/14/02 5:34:27 PM, JRMCo1 writes: >My ears are still ringing from Dolly's "Nine to Five" era stuff. Back >then she seemed to be more sequins than musical substance to me. > >When it comes to country music, I'm more of a Patsy Cline man. A tough >standard to meet, I think. But, I'm more enamored of bluegrass and roots >music with each passing day, and I did enjoy Dolly's collaborations with >Emmylou Harris and Linda Ronstadt a while back... So, I'll give Dolly's >latest a listen. Thanks for reminding me to keep an open mind. In that case, Julius, you will probably love The Grass is Blue and Little Sparrow. I can almost guarantee it. They were widely acclaimed as her return to her roots. I'm with you on Patsy Cline. I'd highly recommend Alison Krauss, too, with and without Union Station. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:46:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Cover of "Passion Play" << She did a cover of "Passion Play" that was very straight but quite nice. She reminds me a bit of Phoebe Snow. >> Indeed...very nice. She reminds me of Toni Childs. Thanks Brenda for our FIRST cover of Passion Play. This song has always blown me away with it's beauty and interesting chord changes, not to mention the lyrical beauty. Sounds like she's playing with one of those VG8's, and some of the playing puts me in the mind of Larry Carlton's sound on Hejira. Bob NP: Gail Ann Dorsey, "Passion Play" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:05:32 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni & Leonard Someone (sorry!) wrote: >she intended it as a homage or love-note to Cohen, who she >surely bumped into on the coffeehouse circuit. They did a lot more than just bump into each other, by all accounts. ;) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:24:06 -0800 From: "Jerome ." Subject: Re: Kind Words for Dolly (some JC) With all this Dolly talk going around, I felt compelled to go to the JMDL site and look up a reference to Joni that Dolly made not too long ago. I didn't find it, but I did find this cute quote from Joni about Dolly... "When I met Dolly Parton, I played her the "Hissing of Summer Lawns," album, and she said to me quite shyly after the record was played back, "My God, if I thought that deep, I'd scare myself to death." (Laughs). So some of the process is indeed a little bit scary, you know. " The quote I can't seem to find was Dolly saying how she really admired Joni and her ability to take risks. It was just short quote. Anyone else remember this or was I just dreaming? - -J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:30:26 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters on 3/13/02 6:30 AM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Hey thanks Simon for all that info regarding the films. Who is on the case as > far as taping it for sharing? Ranger Rick? I will be taping it, of course, but my VCR is not high-end. It's actually very low-end. Still, if a better copy is not available I'll be glad to offer mine up for a video tree. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:34:21 -0500 From: Ken Subject: Screen Saver Update On the Shiny Toys page I've updated the Joni Mitchell Art Screen Saver. The only difference to the program is that it now has 78 pictures in place of the original 45. I've run it on a Windows XP system and it runs fine. Thanks to Jim from Jonimitchell.com for the use of the pictures and to Catgirl for the push to update the program. Also thanks to Les for helping me with an FTP problem. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:36:38 -0500 From: chiaroscuro@SNET.Net Subject: Re: Cover of "Passion Play" I find women who play the bass very interesting. The one who often stands out is Tina Weymouth from Talking Heads and Tom Tom Club. There was a woman who played bass for the B52's who was pretty cool too. I'm assuming Gail Anne Dorsey has a CD or two? Heather At 12:14 PM 3/14/02 -0800, Brenda wrote: >Gail Anne Dorsey (bass player for Bowie and Tears for Fears among others) >recently >performed live on KCRW. She did a cover of "Passion Play" that was very >straight but >quite nice. She reminds me a bit of Phoebe Snow. > >I recorded it and can supply a .wav or .mp3 for anyone who wants it. > >Brenda > >n.p.: Gail Anne Dorsey - "Passion Play" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:19:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Digest #112 was indispensable !! 100% JC I guess some of our sisters and brothers got left out of Digest #112. It's an important one to 'catch' cause Simon clues us in on some big news. The digest is always available through the links on www.jmdl.com . Here's a link to that particular digest: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2002.n112 Enjoy. Lama ps, I wanna send a shout out to my old friends Mags, M.Russell, Anne S., and Paul C. (Paul was at Julie's house in Pittsburgh for the first JoniFest back in 1843.) It's good to see you all posting again! I can't wait to hear the studio version of Vince's 'take' on "Judgement Of The Moon And Stars". Thanks to those behind the scenes for the GREAT audience recordings from the BSN tour. You know who you are. Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:05:27 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Michael From Mountains Since buying Judy Collins' 'Wildflowers' I've been sort of hearing 'Michael From Mountains' with new ears. All these years that I've been listening to Joni's version on 'Song To A Seagull' I've always thought this song (and all the songs on STAS) had a very pretty melody. But hearing it in a more orchestral setting on 'Wildflowers' has made me hear just how unique & unusual this melody is. I think it was Fred who wrote a post about loving Joni's early songs because the melodies were more interesting and unusual. If I remember right, Fred, you mentioned that Joni's early songs often seemed to shift between minor & major chords or keys and that this created an effect that you admired. I'm not a musician so please excuse my fumbling for terminology & my ignorance. But listening to Judy's version of 'MFM' (hey that could be 'Michael From Mountains' or 'Man From Mars' - sometimes those anagrams can get confusing) I'm pretty sure I can distinctly hear what you were referring to. The phrase 'There's oil in puddle in taffeta patterns' sounds like a major key to me but then the following phrase 'that run down the drain' sounds minor. Am I right or did I land in a puddle and now I'm all wet? The funny thing is that this never struck me as particularly different or remarkable in Joni's version of the song. It was just part of the melody & I never thought much about it. But in the Judy Collins version it is so obvious to me. It really gives me a new appreciation of this particular song and of course of the genius behind it. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #74 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?