From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #46 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, February 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 046 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: February 13 [les@jmdl.com] Today in History: February 13 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Joni in fiction [Gertus@aol.com] Joni on CKUA ["Brett Code" ] Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] (bounced message) [Bounced Message ] Re: We Don't Know Where She Stood (Stayed), and my current project (long, again) [BigWaltinS] Re: We Don't Know Where She Stood (Stayed), and my current project (long, again) [SCJoniGu] Re: Beethoven and his deafness on SNL [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) [Randy Remote ] Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" [Howard > << Nick Hornby's "About a Boy" is the only book I can think of with Joni > content. >> > > Thanks for this info, Jacky. I guess Nick Hornby must be a Joni fan, since > he also made a reference to her in "High Fidelity." > I'm sure he is a fan. However, the book isn't exactly a good advert for her music! The boy in question is brought up by his single, depressive, Joni loving mother on a diet of Joni music (what could be better, you might think). When he gets to school he is considered to be very uncool and is bullied for his appearance and music taste. The story, without wishing to spoil it for you, is of the boy's journey from being a Joni-lover to a Joni-hater, at which point we know he's going to survive in the world. > I will add this info to my Joni in FIction file, which will eventually be > part of the JMDL site. Very cool! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 06:22:03 -0700 From: "Brett Code" Subject: Joni on CKUA My show is on today - for the next 3 hours - www.ckua.org Click on "On the Air" The Fiddle and the Drum is playing right now. At least 3 other of JM's war songs will be played. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:36:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" <> I'm with you, Julius, and that feeling flows throughout the whole record. "Clouds" is such a gorgeous record in its stark beauty like the music Gillian Welch makes these days. Many of the songs on Clouds are among my favorite all-time Joni tunes; Midway, I Think I Understand, Chelsea, Tin Angel...well, no sense naming them ALL! ;~) When I go to the beach each summer, there are always two CD's I take outside on the deck and play in their entirety, and just allow them to wash over me. Clouds is one (usually in the morning watching the sun come up over the sound) and Hejira (usually in the evening watching the sun retire). Speaking of IDKWIS, just got a sweet cover of it by a Singapore singer named Tanya Chua. It features an electric bassist who plays in Jaco-style, and she sounds pure-voiced like Joni as well, so it answers the musical question 'what would Joni & Jaco have sounded like in 1968?';~) Bob NP: John Mayer, "My Stupid Mouth" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:13:55 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: (bounced message) >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:48:23 +0100 >From: kezia@tiscali.it > >Date: Fri, 04 Jan 1980 10:12:36 -0800 > > From: Tara Lindsay > > This is my first post on this list. I've been a fan of Joni Mitchell since > >Hi Tara, and welcome. I'm Ilaria form Italy and unfortunately I have never >been to your country. I have a passion for Scotland, which I visited for >almost ten years in a row for my summer holidays. Edimburgh and its festival >are smashing!! > >Years ago, when I started a little research on Joni, I found a site, which >I lost track of, about somebody's memories, reporting this sentence as a >heading: >"There are two kinds of people in the world: those who find her depressing >and those who, already depressed, find her comforting" > >I liked it so much that I decided to use at the beginning of my concert, >which is (needless to say) a tribute to Joni. With a guitarrist and a >percussionist >I tried to give an idea of Joni's musical route. A song from each album >and a bit of her story. Our site is still in Italian, but you can download >our covers. >at www.selfi.supereva.it > > >Nice to talk to you!! >Till soon >Ilaria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:32:18 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: We Don't Know Where She Stood (Stayed), and my current project (long, again) In a message dated 2/12/02 4:33:57 PM, JRMCo1 writes: << Dear Walt, I don't know much about chords and such, but dear God, I love this song and the feeling it evokes. I've always been enamored of how it takes place over the course of 24 hours. How love has made her sleepless in California, so to speak. How she metaphorically finishes writing the song as the morning comes up. How it's innocent and hopeful, but still imbued with melancholy and longing. How the lone guitar (or restrained piano, I'm sure) compliments the lyrics's sentiments, perfectly And of course, the allusions are beautiful: "braiding wild-flowers and leaves in my hair," "crickets call courting their ladies in star-dappled green," "I wrote 'I love you' in my finest hand." I going play Clouds as soon as I get home. Thanks for mentioning this song. - -Julius >> Julius, I feel the same way about the song -- the images are stunning and beautiful - -- but there's always that hesitation at the end of each verse (btw, I'm sure you already know this, but in the original, and in the published version of the song, it's "Carolina", not "California" -- she must have changed it as her focus switched from one coast to the other -- I know that in "Dr. Junk the Dentist Man", the story she tells before she sings it has the dentist in somewhere in one of the Carolinas as well. Hey, Joni historians -- do we know where she played in the Carolinas, did she spend an extended period of time there? -- clearly, she must have been charmed by the place, as who wouldn't be?) Anyway, back to the hesitation -- between that, and the musical sound of the beginning, I hear a connection between this song and Sunny Sunday. I don't have the sheet music to SunSun, and I don't know if they're in the same key ("Why don't you listen to them Walt?"), but the chord *progression* in the intros to the two songs sound very similar to me -- and one song shows a young woman in hesitation, and the other one shows a (presumably) mature woman stuck in a rut, stalled, and leaving the decision of whether to leave in the hands of a very unlikely "game" of chance. So the project I'm working on is a pastiche of these two songs, with flashbacks, of a woman stuck in a rut, looking back at a time when she perhaps *should* have been more decisive. And I'll connect the two via a third Joni song that already uses such a device, Harry's House/Centerpiece (with a few words changed). Here's the structure, as it stands now: A. The first verse of SunSun (hereafter just SS) to the line "She waits for the night to fall..." B. (to the tune of Harry's House) She thinks back to the memory Of her naivete in youth When the choices seemed so endless Had she only known the truth... C. First verse of IDKWIS, (scat bridge from the song) Skip to third verse of IDK, starting with "Telephone..." and ending with: "I guess it's too early, 'Cause I don't know where I stand." B. (Back to the melody of Harry's House, with these lyrics) In time her options dwindled Bad choices made in haste Or lost through indecision She shudders at the waste... A. (Back to SS, starting with the line:) Then she points a pistol... (to) She always misses... C. (abruptly to IDK) I know that I miss you, But I don't know where I stand. A. (and back to SS) She always misses But the day she hits, That's the day she'll leave... (etc. to the end of SS) First of all, I hope these musings don't ruin IDK for anyone -- I doubt it could -- or infuriate anyone who thinks Joni's lyrics should be left as is. Secondly, my apologies for not typing out all the words -- it would take up more space than I should take here, and I figure most of us either know the words, or can get them from CD inserts -- contact me offlist if you want the whole thing, I'll send it to you. But more importantly -- help me! I'm not much of a poet -- be Joni to my David Crosby in Yvette In English! -- if you think of a better phrasing, better words, please let me know -- feel free to post your suggestions (or scorn) to the whole list. Warmly, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:12:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: We Don't Know Where She Stood (Stayed), and my current project (long, again) <> First, I'm no Joni historian, I'll make that clear. But from all accounts she played some gigs at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC in '67. This was where she met "Killer Kyle" who pops up in Cactus Tree & Beat of Black Wings. Fayetteville is NOT charming. It's a Marine town, so it's filled with hookers, bars, pawn shops & etc. When I lived in Raleigh it was known as "Fayette-Nam". Anyway, I would guess that it was on this same southern swing that she ended up in FL playing where Crosby saw her. So it was a very eventful tour! ;~) As for Dr. Junk, I can't recall her exact words but I think she references that he lived in the mountains of NC, so that would be in the Asheville area. This may be where she was first exposed to the dulcimer, as the instrument is very popular there, both lap and hammer. Rambling, Bob NP: Kevin Gilbert, "Tea For One" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:57:43 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Beethoven and his deafness on SNL Anybody else remember the series of skits on a *very* early Saturday Night Live, with John Belushi playing Beethoven, and (I think) Gilda Radner playing his wife? - --walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:10:26 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) Bob said: <<"You Dream Flat Tires", a Joni tune I love (I'm in the minority, I think)>> - --but hardly alone -- I love the album, and that's one of the better songs on it! The vivid, scathing sound to that statement: "You dream flat tires!" = "You only have boring, irritating dreams!", at least in my mind... My lover at that time didn't like Joni much, nor that album -- but that one song, he liked. . -- walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:54:27 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > The vivid, scathing sound to that statement: "You dream flat tires!" = > "You only have boring, irritating dreams!", at least in my mind... I interpret it more as her saying "You sabatoge yourself". You can't get very far if your outlook is self defeating. Or specifically, in the context of the song, you are defeating any possibilities this promising relationship has with your negative attitude. You said it was precious when first you felt my fire before you dreamed flat tires you dream flat tires ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:06:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) <<--but hardly alone -- I love the album, and that's one of the better songs on it! The vivid, scathing sound to that statement: "You dream flat tires!" = "You only have boring, irritating dreams!", at least in my mind...>> It's a great use of the car metaphor as relationship (although done better by RLJ in "Last Chance Texaco"), I think in a nutshell what she's saying is that the guy is not very ambitious in the relationship, that he's happy with just a "flirtation" while she desires it to be "extra special company". It could just be a Venus & Mars thing... Mostly I just love the way the music pulses...you get the feeling that Joni was enjoying the return to more straightforward rhythms after Mingus. Bob NP: Shelby Lynne, "Jesus On A Greyhound" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:13:34 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Chat room and a request Joniphiles - I'd like to remind everyone that, after a few technical problems, the JMDL Chat Room is alive and well and can be found at http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm. Also, here's an update on the list membership (not accounting for those on more than one list): Joni list: 91 members (11.4%) Joni-digest: 490 members (61.5%) Joni-only: 42 members (5.3%) Joni-only digest: 173 members (21.7%) Total members: 796 Being the nerdy analytical type that I am, I notice that the census is down from a few months ago and that the percentage of Joni-only people is up. Leading me (arguably erroneously) to conclude that the signal-to-noise ratio is affecting the statistics. Thus... here's my request of everyone... Please take a moment to proofread your posts before you send them and decide whether the post should be sent to the entire list or would be better aimed just at a specific individual. I personally feel there are a lot of posts (responses to the birthday announcements, 'me-too's, etc...) that would be much better left off the list and sent to the individual. Thanks everyone! Les NP: Kasey Chambers "If I Were You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:09 +0000 From: Howard Subject: Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" Hi all, Just had a quick play through on the guitar to figure out the chord names. Here's what I reckon (based on Sue's chords from the jmdl guitar site): NB: I use "b" for flat, and distinguish "add9" from "9". I've also put the chord spelling in brackets after the chord name in case there are any ambiguities. These chords are in the actual key of the recording (F) - hope you can transpose them down to the key of D OK. Intro: - ------- x55040 = Bbm6add9 (1 b3 6 9) x22010 = Gmadd4 (1 b3 4) 000210 = Fadd4 (1 3 4 5) 000200 = F (1 3 5) 000000 = Fadd9 (1 3 5 9) Verse: - ------- 999999 = Dadd9 (1 3 5 9) 777777 = Cadd9 (1 3 5 9) 999999 = Dadd9 (1 3 5 9) 000033 = F9(no 3rd) (1 5 7 9) 555555 = Bbadd9 (1 3 5 9) x44030 = Am7 (1 b3 5 7) x55040 = Bbm6add9 (1 b3 6 9) x22010 = Gmadd4 (1 b3 4) 000210 = Fadd4 (1 3 4 5) 000200 = F (1 3 5) 000000 = Fadd9 (1 3 5 9) Scat section: - -------------- 444444 = Aadd9 (1 3 5 9) 222222 = Gadd9 (1 3 5 9) x55040 = Bbm6add9 (1 b3 6 9) x22010 = Gmadd4 (1 b3 4) 000210 = Fadd4 (1 3 4 5) 000200 = F (1 3 5) 000000 = Fadd9 (1 3 5 9) The Fadd4/F/Fadd9 sequence has some very subtle changes - not sure how to tackle this on the piano. It might work better to play Fsus4 to F (1 4 5 to 1 3 5) - the dissonance you get with the Fadd4 chord (3rd against the 4th) is nice, but you barely hear it in the original. Howard BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > > Anyhoo, using "@" for "flat" (e.g., B@ means B-flat), and using "9" loosely > to mean "add 2" (so C9 could mean either C-D-E-G or C-E-G-D[octave]), here's > what I got: > > Intro: > > E@dim/D@... D@sus4...2...4 D@9...2...4...D@9 > (repeat) > B@9... > > [B@9] Funny day, looking for laughter and > > [A@9] finding it there > > [B@9] Sunny day, braiding wildflowers and > > [A@m] leaves in my > > [A@m7/D@] hair [-->A@m6/D@] > > [G@9] Picked up a pencil and > > [G@m9] wrote I love you > > [D@9] in my finest hand > > [G@m9] I wanted to send it, but I > > [E@dim(7)] don't know where I > > [D@9] stand [D@sus4...2..4..D@9] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:30:24 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2002 Logo Just a reminder that tomorrow is the deadline for all entries for the Jonifest 2002 Logo Design contest! Please send all entries in by tomorrow at midnight EST. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:08:12 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (long!) Howard wrote (with some explanation, which I've elided here for sake of space) the following chord sequence for IDKWIS: <> My reaction: Howard -- this is great! -- This is turning out to be quite a challenge for me, having been away from music theory and transcription for so long. But I'm enjoying it immensely. If I'm not mistaken, the published version, a lousy one in many ways -- they even have the melody wrong, at least to my ears, in the scat part -- is in E, Sue's version is (I think) in D, yours is in F, and mine is in Bb (I've misplaced Marion's for the moment). Makes it even more challenging! I've got to listen to the song while I'm looking at *all* our transcriptions, since, as I was giving up on the scat part this afternoon, I would swear, in my head where I was trying to play back the actual version from Clouds, the following happened: During the scat part (really, if you have the published version, from various of the early collections of her first three albums, check it out -- I'm almost certain it's *wrong*), a subtle change in key happens, with the result that the third verse is one full step/key lower than the first two. Probably I'm wrong (I was beginning to question my memory, if not my sanity, towards the end of today's all too brief session on the piano)-- but this kind of change of key during verse changes (is there a term for this?) is quite common -- e.g., Bacharach does it all the time. I'll listen to the "real thing" on Clouds album several times tonight, and have all our chord progressions in front of me, and report back tomorrow or Friday. For me this is exciting stuff, like solving a puzzle or a mystery, or a tough math problem. Having fun, Walt ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #46 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?