From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #9 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, January 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 009 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: January 8 [les@jmdl.com] Re: What does "Open" mean, and Who makes the choices, and..... [M.Russell] Re: SoCal JMDLer party [Julius Raymond ] Re: A Beautiful mind SJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: A Beautiful mind SJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: What does "Open" mean, and Who makes the choices, and.... [johnirving] Joni Covers, Volume 25 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] FW: Incredible Picture of the Earth from the new space station! N JC [LXR] Win your FREE copy of Covers #25 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] For the Roses ["Steven & Babara Hirahara" ] For the Roses ["Steven & Babara Hirahara" ] Re: was books and movies, now the implications of subaru [Alison E ] Re: remeber the first time you heard joni [WARREN901@aol.com] Re: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING... (now Video Trees) [WARREN901@aol.com] Re: What does "Open" mean, and Who makes the choices, and..... [Randy Rem] Re: A Beautiful mind SJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: A Beautiful mind SJC [colin ] Re: remember the first time you heard joni [Lori in MD ] RE: remember the first time you heard Joni [Catherine McKay I know what chords mean only in terms of the piano > (i.e., if someone asks me to play a Dm7 on the piano, > I can do it pretty much without thinking), but what does > an "open" tuning on a guitar mean? It seems to mean > more than just "non-standard" -- if so, is there more than > one "closed" way of tuning? An open tuning is any tuning which is not standard. Generally, an open tuning is tuned to a chord and sounds nice by itself, although Jonatha Brooke has one very weird tuning where she just tunes the bottom string down to C# (C#ADGBE) (C#85545) and it sounds terrible by itself, but allows for some nice bass notes with the chord progressions that she uses for the songs in that tuning. Standard tuning on the guitar is EADGBE (E55545). The musical intervals between all but the 3rd and 2nd strings are fourths - the interval between the 3rd and 2nd strings is a major third. This tuning, when strummed without a chord shape, is not very beautiful by itself - it is not itself a chord - but this tuning seems to provide the most possibilities for playing any song in any key and for modulating between keys. It is even possible (but would be very difficult for the average guitarist) to play Joni's songs with her chords (not the chord shapes, but the tones of her chords) from standard tuning - I saw someone do this here in Vienna at a Joni tribute a few years ago - he played a set of at least 15 of Joni's songs, including Refuge Of The Roads, from standard tuning - sounded just like Joni's guitar! It was very amazing. Gerald Gradwohl - excellent guitarist. > If someone says, e.g., "open D' tuning", does it mean you > tune the strings to play only, say D, F#, A and their octaves? yes, that is basically correct. The actual tuning of "open D tuning" is DADF#AD. Sometimes an open tuning can be very simple - like tuning the E bass string of the guitar down to D. This is called drop-D. If you then tune the top E string down to D, you get a double-drop-D tuning. Any time that the tuning for the guitar is changed from standard, the chord shapes have to be modifed so that you can still get beautiful sounds from the guitar. Once you've tuned the guitar into an open tuning, it seems to me - in my experience - that the musical possibilities become more limited because of the tuning. While it is possible to find many chords that sound more interesting/beautiful from an open tuning, it becomes difficult to modulate to another key because the guitar strings have been fixed into the key of the open tuning (whereas standard tuning is not fixed to any key). > Also, what does a "modal" tuning mean? I don't know. There are instruments which are modal, like the dulcimer. They are fretted such that it is not possible to play a complete chromatic scale. The guitar is not a modal instrument because each fret represents a half step and chromatic scales are possible on every string. I think "modal tuning" must be just another term for open tuning. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 03:34:52 -0800 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: SoCal JMDLer party That's right, I'll be putting aside feverish work on my memoir trilogy to hobnob with the L.A. and JMDL glitterati! :-) Last year was an affair to remember. Not only did we have close encounters with Ted Nugent, Keanu Reeves and Goofy...we were also feted by the music of Kate Bennett and Jeff Bisch (please join us again, you two), got a sneak preview of Clark's cd, and were awed by Steve Dulson (on dulcimer!), Alison, Nikki, and our incomparable Wonder Mike Paz on VG-8. Kakki broke out both her Baby Taylor and martini shaker. Charming Phyllis was there, and our dear Darice came down from Marin, too. If you don't jump at the chance to hang out with the marvelous Coyote Rick in his natural habitat, you may well live to regret it. We put on some harmonies, we danced, we bonded and we glorified Joni. This year we'll be going to some now famous eateries, too. ;-) Join us for the magic, if you can. I can't wait! - -Julius - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kakki" To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:42 PM Subject: SoCal JMDLer party > It's that time of year again when our Mr. Paz strides into L.A. town for the > NAMM show in his Betty Boop slip-ons and wearing a VG-8 and banjo on his > knee. Accompanying him this visit will be our no. 1 party girl Alison from > SLC (celebrating her birthday) and our sly wit and literature laureate of > Marin County, Julius. > > Some of us will be getting together near NAMM in Anaheim for various events > on Friday, Jan. 18 and Sat., Jan. 19th. On Sunday, Jan. 20th our wonderful > Coyote Rick is hosting a dinner and music jam for the gang. Any SoCal or > visiting JMDL'ers are invited to join us in the fun and can contact Paz or > me for more details. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:39:36 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: A Beautiful mind SJC >>to me, it was eye opening to see that someone suffering from schizophrenia was as highly functional as Nash was...& as innovatively brilliant...<< I haven't seen 'A Beautiful Mind' but intend to asap. I'm currently laid up in bed with the 'flu; just as well I had prepared for this by buying myself the Jaco Pastorius biography for 'reyes' and I read it all yesterday and was struck by the similarity between Nash and Jaco's cases, particularly the mental illness part. It seems as a society we are unaware of the plight of those in severe trauma, or afraid to try to help when we become aware, or give up trying to help when it seems that the person has a 'death wish' and is 'beyond help'. Is anyone ever really 'beyond help'? I stress 'as a society' as I am aware that family and friends do their best to help their loved ones through these difficult times. I don't want to resort to the cliche that genius and madness are two sides of the same coin but in the case of Nash and Jaco (and many more?) it may be true. I was surprised that the bio mentioned Joni Mitchell in many places but talked of the 'Mingus' project only in the discography. For me, 'Mingus' is one of the highpoints in the careers of both Joni and Jaco. Any thoughts on this? Regarding Hollywood (and Ron Howard), we (the public) are not surprised at the sanitized versions of anything, particularly homosexuality. Subtlety is not what we expect or demand or get. What surprises me is that the filmmakers still seem to have a very poor opinion of the audience's ability to accept positive homosexual characters in films, unless the film is a comedy and homosexuality is the (how should I put it) 'butt' of the joke. Do actors really have a fear of playing homosexuals, thinking it may reflect badly on their image? Don't they think that the audience is able to distinguish between a role and a sexual preference? If, say, Harrison Ford, Tom Cruise or George Clooney made a film playing an unsympathetic homosexual, do they think that they would find work hard to get? Would we, the public, punish them at the box office if we saw them in homosexual roles? Why? I find this a fascinating topic and am constantly amazed at the willingness of European actors to accept these roles without a thought for their work prospects. What is this difference in perception between America and Europe regarding 'machismo'? Any thoughts on this? Mike in Barcelona NP manu chao 'clandestino' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:45:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Beautiful mind SJC <> I don't think this is the case, Michael...I think it's more the case that Hollywood waters homosexuality down to make it more palatable for a wider audience. There are some great films out there with name actors (Longtime Companion & Jeffrey among them), but they're made for the most part by indies. Hollywood knows that these won't play well in Greenville SC & Des Moines. Bob NP: CPR, "Triad" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:23:11 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: RE: What does "Open" mean, and Who makes the choices, and.... Hi Walt, I'm sure the very brilliant musicians on the JMDL will answer your question better than I could. So I'll leave the music theory to them. What I would recommend is reading the article written for Acoustic Magazine by Jeffery Rodgers. It is, to my knowledge the definitive article that reveals Joni's guitar technique. -I'm sure it's archived on the JMDL website. No? I was taking a train into Chicago and as I got on board, my good friend Diane handed me this issue, saying, "I don't know if you have this already, but I thought you might be interested." It was THE coolest gift ever. I was trembling with excitement reading that article. All the 'mystery' of Joni's guitar technique was lifted away. It is a GREAT read, so I hope you will look for it. It interviews Joni, with lots of revealing information. The photographs of her are sooo beautiful. There's a transcript of 'Just Like this Train' and even a list of her guitar gear. -How's that for cool? If anyone else on the list has missed this beauty, I do hope you'll check it out. John. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:53:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni Covers, Volume 25 Well, Just Like This Train I'm running behind the times, but better late than never, right? Anyway, Covers Volume 25 is done and on the streets. Another amalgamation of the weird, wacky and always wonderful cover versions of songs by the best songwriter I know. Besides my own sleuthing skills, my thanks to Mike Garin for his contribution to this volume. Here's the rundown... 1. Dick Hyman - Big Yellow Taxi: Light & fun, pretty nice actually. And as always, I'm glad it's HIM with that name and not me. 2. Txarango - Both Sides Now: A nice Spanish Language version of the ever-popular classic. Nice! 3. Frente - You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio: Live from a small club. Always nice to hear the singer tell the crowd to shut up. Not available on an official release, only as a download. 4. Bill Laswell - Blue: The record says this is Blue. It says it's Joni's Blue. I listened and listened, but I can't hear Blue in there. But here it is just the same. 5. Leni Stern - Court & Spark: Really nice jazz guitar take on the jazzy title track from C&S. Lovely. 6. Monty Alexander's Ivory & Steel - Big Yellow Taxi: Cool Steel drum version of BYT. Yah mon! 7. Mama's Boys - This Flight Tonight: These Irish rockers are dressed in leather, but this version isn't merely a Nazareth ripoff. It's a nice acoustic but still fairly metal version. Released as a bonus track on their live CD. 8. Dianne Davidson - Carey: Previously available only on vinyl, Dianne's a good old-fashioned r&b singer ala Bonnie Raitt. Does a good job with Carey. 9. Tom Clay - Both Sides Now: Tom put together a concept record back in the late 60's using songs of the day to discuss love in one of those heavy "rap sessions". 10. Christine Tobin Band - A Chair In The Sky 11. Christine Tobin Band - The Priest: These two knock me out. Christine's an Irish Jazz singer, and she and her band do super versions of these two compositions. I love the fact that she picks The Priest. For me, these are the highlights of the disc. 12. Dave Douglas - Roses Blue: Dave's jazz trumpet was last heard on Volume #20, dedicated to Joni's jazz covers. This one wouldn't fit there, so it's here. Again, a nice one because it's so original. 13. The Travellers - The Circle Game: A fairly perfunctory reading of the Ian & Sylvia "speeded up" version of TCG. The Travellers were a sixties Canadian folk group. 14. Kenny Vehkavarra & Silvio Simone - Big Yellow Taxi: This is a GREAT guitar/keyboard instrumental, very unexpected as the CD looked to be pretty dull. Don't judge a cover by it's cover, I guess! 15. Denny Brooks - Both Sides Now: A laid back country take on the song, which squirms its way into every genre known to man! 16. Complexblue - All I Want: Very pretty jazz version by this 7-piece band. A recent recording. 17. Danny Cox - Urge For Going: Danny was a black folksinger, this recording was from the late sixties. Very worthwhile. So there you have 'em...another FULL CD's worth of fine music from folks inspired by Joni just like you and me and moved to preserve their take on her songs for all eternity. If you're interested in getting a copy for your very own, lemme know and I'll give you the skinny. And stay tuned to win a FREE copy! Bob NP: Crash Test Dummies, "Comin' Back Soon" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:32:47 -0000 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: FW: Incredible Picture of the Earth from the new space station! N JC I thought this might be of interest....certainly, I thought so! Les (London) Subject: Incredible Picture of the Earth from the new space station! > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:04:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Win your FREE copy of Covers #25 If your New Year's resolution was to spin more Joni covers, here's your chance to feather the nest for FREE! Once again, some lucky JMDL'er will win a free copy of "Joni Covers, Volume 25"...it might as well be YOU. And all you have to do is send ME (not the list) an E-mail! Guess a song from one of Joni's records, and be sure to tell me which record as she's repeated a couple of songs. For example: I Had A King, Song To A Seagull It's that simple, and costs you nothing. I'll send no spam (other than my silly posts, that is), and you might get a fun JMDL covers CD! I especially encourage you newbies and lurkers to give it a shot. I'll keep the contest open through the week, and announce the winner on Saturday. Good luck!! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:54:52 -0800 From: "Steven & Babara Hirahara" Subject: For the Roses By the time I was 19 I had a beautiful baby girl, buried both of my parents, I was raising my little brother and had been married and divorced. I had fallen in with a wonderful women named Gina who had offered to do my portrait in chalk. She asked me to pose "straight," something I was loath to do for more than a few hours. She said that loaded people gimaced oddly making it hard to capture their true appearance. Gina turned on her record player ( an odd contraption that played large vinyl discs at varying speeds) and I listened to Joni for hours. Time actually stood still and "For the Roses" took me to places in my heart and soul that I hadn't visited in many years. I was surprised and stunned, totally breathless and wanting more. "Ladies of the Canyon" and then "Blue" but always "For the Roses" over and over for weeks. I felt like I had found the perfect score to my deep grief. I have often felt that if I met Joni today I would weep first for her tenderness at underscoring my pain then dance for joy at her wisdom for healing my sorrow. I am reluctant to join into the jargon et al for I cannot, conscientiously, abbreviate what has touched my body, mind and soul. I've seen Joni in concert, once. Anaheim convention center, Court and Spark era. She wore red chiffon. I will never forget how life was then, especially that night. Joni Mitchell is the number one song writer, recording artist and performer of my heart and soul. My children (all women, 15, 17 and 32) ask me to tell them who my contemporary favorites are. I always recite Joni Mitchell as number one. They are exploring new music techniques with the aid of computers and various download processes. They have a wide variety of choices to view and review new artists. When I was young you either got in the car and drove to the concert or hitch hiked. You either stood in line and bought a ticket in advance or sneaked in any way you could. My children have every affordable way to make and listen to music, and they do it all. I'd like to thank Joni Mitchell for allowing me to let my children explore their souls the way she allowed me, through beauty, tenderness and spirit-filled love. Her artistry is a tribute to life. I haven't posted since September. I am building a cabin in the woods below Yosemite and creating my own artist's haven. In the last year I have seen my children bury their father, watched my soulmate painfully accept his family's decision to disown him, and I am now moving our family home. I hope to keep posting when I have the opportunity. Keep it real. Love and Peace, Barbara Murray-Hirahara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:52:22 -0800 From: "Steven & Babara Hirahara" Subject: For the Roses By the time I was 19 I had a beautiful baby girl, buried both of my parents, I was raising my little brother and had been married and divorced. I had fallen in with a wonderful women named Gina who had offered to do my portrait in chalk. She asked me to pose "straight," something I was loath to do for more than a few hours. She said that loaded people gimaced oddly making it hard to capture their true appearance. Gina turned on her record player ( an odd contraption that played large vinyl discs at varying speeds) and I listened to Joni for hours. Time actually stood still and "For the Roses" took me to places in my heart and soul that I hadn't visited in many years. I was surprised and stunned, totally breathless and wanting more. "Ladies of the Canyon" and then "Blue" but always "For the Roses" over and over for weeks. I felt like I had found the perfect score to my deep grief. I have often felt that if I met Joni today I would weep first for her tenderness at underscoring my pain then dance for joy at her wisdom for healing my sorrow. I am reluctant to join into the jargon et al for I cannot, conscientiously, abbreviate what has touched my body, mind and soul. I've seen Joni in concert, once. Anaheim convention center, Court and Spark era. She wore red chiffon. I will never forget how life was then, especially that night. Joni Mitchell is the number one song writer, recording artist and performer of my heart and soul. My children (all women, 15, 17 and 32) ask me to tell them who my contemporary favorites are. I always recite Joni Mitchell as number one. They are exploring new music techniques with the aid of computers and various download processes. They have a wide variety of choices to view and review new artists. When I was young you either got in the car and drove to the concert or hitch hiked. You either stood in line and bought a ticket in advance or sneaked in any way you could. My children have every affordable way to make and listen to music, and they do it all. I'd like to thank Joni Mitchell for allowing me to let my children explore their souls the way she allowed me, through beauty, tenderness and spirit-filled love. Her artistry is a tribute to life. I haven't posted since September. I am building a cabin in the woods below Yosemite and creating my own artist's haven. In the last year I have seen my children bury their father, watched my soulmate painfully accept his family's decision to disown him, and I am now moving our family home. I hope to keep posting when I have the opportunity. Love and Peace, Barbara Murray-Hirahara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:10:43 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: was books and movies, now the implications of subaru all right, ladies, that's enough! i resemble that remark! alison e. in slc, PROUD owner of a Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon in burgundy and gray. 4wD, with a trailer hitch, thank you very much. they're like standard issue here in saltine city. and yes, martina does advertise for them, and yes, that does make me happy. lori, run don't walk to your local subaru dealer. ;-) mazda protege, indeed! - --- kerry wrote: > >> Lori, wondering if she's becoming one of those > older, suburban lesbians, > >> in MD > > > Oh, Lori, now I suppose you'll tell us that you're > trading in your Harley > > for a station wagon! ;>) > > >Ya know Kerry, it's funny that you mention it ... > lately I've been > considering buying the Subaru Legacy/Outback or the > new >Mazda Protege > wagon. Eeek! > > That's not REALLY a station wagon (and doesn't > Martina advertise for them?) > I thought of you yesterday when I saw an old station > wagon with a rainbow > sticker on it!!! > > Kerry Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:51:34 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Non-member submission >Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:21:04 +0100 >From: kezia@tiscali.it > >Hi everyone! > >I'd like to introduce myself, since I'm new in this circle of friends. I >live in Florence and work for a communication and training agency but my >great passion is singing. I am a Joni fan too, of course, and I have always >wanted to try my talent at her lyrics. A couple of years ago I finally met >the right guitarrist (he fell in love too with Joni a long time before I >even knew of her) and a few months ago we have released a demo cd with my >percussionist, with whom I had been trying to set up a trio for a *tribute* >to Joni for the past 4 years. Our name is Shadows and Light and we have >only performed once, last summer. >Now, you all might think: "Here goes another one, a pale shadow of the real >one...!" but, if anyone would go and have a look at our web page, listen >to the mp3's of some of Joni's songs I like more, and write back a comment, >I'd be very grateful. You can find us at www.selfi.supereva.it. > >By the way... >I have noticed that american women shave their > >underarms and european women do not. Mack > >Dear Mack, this not true at all. Being from Italy, and being a woman, I >can tell you that most of the women in my country shave their armspits (or >even forearms, for that matter) and legs and other bits too... > >Hope to *hear* soon from all of you >Ilaria >_______________________________________________________________ >Abbonati a Tiscali! >Con Tiscali By Phone puoi anche ascoltare ed inviare email al telefono. >Chiama Tiscali By Phone all' 892 800 http://byphone.tiscali.it ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:03:30 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: Re: remeber the first time you heard joni who could forget ? the year was 1970, it was early summer and we were at my family's lake cottage. i was just a young naive thing of 15. i went next door to my older and wiser cousin lois' to listen to some music. ( we didn't have a stereo , my cousin was richer too ! ) i had been a fan of female vocalists ever since petula clark joined the british invasion with " downtown, " lois was a female vocalist fan too . she was always turning me on to music that summer . she said she had something new that she thought i would like, handed me a white album with a simple line and watercolor painting on the front, and the most moving music began to waft from the speakers. it was love at first listening !!! i guess you know by now that the album was LOTC. i couldn't get enough. when we returned home from the lake i promptly went downtown to the record store and much to my delight discovered 2 more LPs by joni. i bought all three. ( as i recall albums were about $ 3.99 at the time, a small fortune for a non-working 15 year old but a bargin by today's standard ! ) needless to say it was joni, joni, joni for several months ! back then she seemed to put out a new album every year. they were always anxiously awaited. you can imagine how crazy i got when it started to be three or four years between new releases. ( i was ready to be fitted for a strait jacket ! ) ahhhh, what fond memories... jonily yours, warren keith p.s. les, i'm still working on the joni concert/meeting story of 1974. i would be happy for your to post it on the site. later... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:14:33 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: Re: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING... (now Video Trees) thanks for that prompt response ashara ! i will be in touch soon about some copies. i have some of the stuff already on tape but it will be nice to have them all on the same tapes. thanks again, long live the queen ! ( of the vids that is...) jonily yours, warren keith p.s. by the way, i'm in greensboro, nc . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:16:23 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: What does "Open" mean, and Who makes the choices, and..... Wonderful explanation...just one little nit to pick.. M.Russell@iaea.org wrote: Standard tuning on the guitar is EADGBE (E55545). > - it is not itself a > chord - any group of 3 or more notes is a chord...although in this case you've gotta get creative to name it... Em7sus4 ? Am7sus2/sus4 ? G6 with 2 in the bass? Anyone else care to try? RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:18:09 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: A Beautiful mind SJC I thought Gladiator was dreadfully boring and not worthy of oscar praise. I do like Russell Crowe though. I was aware of him because of the australian film "the sum of us" He played a gay man in it and it was so sweet. John Polson (in mission impossible 2) was in it too. great movie. Russell obviously didn't mind doing it. Mack meone suffering from schizophrenia > was as highly functional as Nash was...& as innovatively brilliant...<< > I haven't seen 'A Beautiful Mind' but intend to asap. I'm currently laid up in > bed with the 'flu; just as well I had prepared for this by buying myself the > Jaco Pastorius biography for 'reyes' and I read it all yesterday and was > struck by the similarity between Nash and Jaco's cases, particularly the > mental illness part. It seems as a society we are unaware of the plight of > those in severe trauma, or afraid to try to help when we become aware, or give > up trying to help when it seems that the person has a 'death wish' and is > 'beyond help'. Is anyone ever really 'beyond help'? I stress 'as a society' as > I am aware that family and friends do their best to help their loved ones > through these difficult times. I don't want to resort to the cliche that > genius and madness are two sides of the same coin but in the case of Nash and > Jaco (and many more?) it may be true. > > I was surprised that the bio mentioned Joni Mitchell in many places but talked > of the 'Mingus' project only in the discography. For me, 'Mingus' is one of > the highpoints in the careers of both Joni and Jaco. Any thoughts on this? > > Regarding Hollywood (and Ron Howard), we (the public) are not surprised at the > sanitized versions of anything, particularly homosexuality. Subtlety is not > what we expect or demand or get. What surprises me is that the filmmakers > still seem to have a very poor opinion of the audience's ability to accept > positive homosexual characters in films, unless the film is a comedy and > homosexuality is the (how should I put it) 'butt' of the joke. Do actors > really have a fear of playing homosexuals, thinking it may reflect badly on > their image? Don't they think that the audience is able to distinguish between > a role and a sexual preference? If, say, Harrison Ford, Tom Cruise or George > Clooney made a film playing an unsympathetic homosexual, do they think that > they would find work hard to get? Would we, the public, punish them at the box > office if we saw them in homosexual roles? Why? I find this a fascinating > topic and am constantly amazed at the willingness of European actors to accept > these roles without a thought for their work prospects. What is this > difference in perception between America and Europe regarding 'machismo'? Any > thoughts on this? > > Mike in Barcelona > > NP manu chao 'clandestino' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:40:18 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: A Beautiful mind SJC > It seems as a society we are unaware of the plight of > those in severe trauma, or afraid to try to help when we become aware, or give > up trying to help when it seems that the person has a 'death wish' and is > 'beyond help'. Is anyone ever really 'beyond help'? I stress 'as a society' as > I am aware that family and friends do their best to help their loved ones > through these difficult times. It is good to read something so naive ! Not meaning to offend you at all Mike, when I read this, my first thought was 'how good of him to think like that'. Unfortuantely it could not be further from the truth. Firstly society generally doesn't care. It is alos too sacred of anything different. There is still a HUGE stigma attached to mental illness and people do not wnat to get involved. Far too many families don't care, and are the root of it anyhow, and very few friends bother to find the person. Although in my experience, friends have been the best. There is too little healthcare available for mental health difficulties. A good sign society doesn't care. Mental health problems are inaccurately portrayed on tv in film and in the press thus making the prejudice even worse. Apart from that, 'mental health care professionals' also continue this prejudice because of the way they treat their 'patients', ignoring their humanity, feelings and thoughts, and just labelling us and drugging us and treating us as non humans. The basis of much psychiatry is that our thoughts and feelings don't count, just the shrinks opinion of our disorder. Much has been wriiten on this and evry well by Dr Dorothy Rowe, a renowned clinicla psycholgist. To answer your question about whetehr some people are beyond help, thew ansswer is yes. psychopaths. Briefly, because their first experinces in life, ie as babies, did not allow them to form connections with others and thus they were not able to distinguish a person from an object thus they grow up seeing evrything outside of themselves as an object. (objects have no feelings so you can do what you like to them). As yet, nothing has been found to overcome this. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:49:00 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: A Beautiful mind SJC > I think it's more the case that Hollywood waters homosexuality down to make it more palatable for a wider audience. again what bollocks! (Not you but THEM) There is nothing to water down! How about watering doen the violence? the rapes? the appalling behaviour of str8's depeicted on film? . They are not watering down anything What Hollywood is doing is perperuating hatred and immorality and adding to that mix. hardly watering down. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:45:38 -0800 (PST) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: remember the first time you heard joni The first time I heard Joni was Detroit in '68 and ... >: ) Actually, I don't really remember the first time I heard Joni, although it must have been You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio on the AM radio in our family's kitchen. I guess that would've been late 1972 or early 1973. I really regret that during my angst-ridden teen years I didn't know Joni's music. I suppose things come to us when we need them, though, and so I really *heard* Joni in 1977 when I bought a cassette of Hejira. I was 18. Lori in MD ~ Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 18:35:20 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: remember the first time you heard joni perhaps I should turn one of my Joni collections over to my daughter. Hmmmmm. mags. nc: that possibility...maybe it will help. ;-) - --- Lori in MD wrote: > The first time I heard Joni was Detroit in '68 and ... > > >: ) > > Actually, I don't really remember the first time I heard Joni, > although it must have been You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio on the AM > radio in our family's kitchen. I guess that would've been late 1972 > or early 1973. > > I really regret that during my angst-ridden teen years I didn't know > Joni's music. I suppose things come to us when we need them, though, > and so I really *heard* Joni in 1977 when I bought a cassette of > Hejira. I was 18. > > Lori > in MD > > ~ > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail. ===== it's a miracle! Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 18:50:30 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: remember the first time you heard Joni Mags wrote: close your eyes and remember those angst filled days and how Joni became the very thing that saved you. Mags my friend, this poem/prose was so lovely! I think for many of us, the words you laid out here express the very time and place many of us came from and to in our life long union with Joni. This is well written and it definitely touches the soul of our reason for being here .. well surely you touched mine. Thanks for sharing. Julius wrote: she would light candles and incense and read to me from Sylvia Plath, Anais Nin or Hermann Hesse. Julus this is the woman for me! I love Wendy - hook me up! This is like fairy tale so sweet a memory. If anyone recalls the old thread about favorite books and authors, mine included all 3 mentioned here! My first REAL Joni listen was the summer of 1971. I had heard a few things in pieces here and there and liked what I heard but I wasn't listening close enough. Also, I was often hearing BSN - Judy Collins versions. But the summer of 71 as I was turning 14 was the defining moment for me. I was hanging out with a slightly older cousin who was busy getting me high for the first few times of my life. We were listening to a radio station that was very into playing the Blue album that summer. Every song was an immediate love for me. The ones I remember them playing were All I Want, California, Carey ... A Case of you well all of them. I bought the album within the week and played it down to a hissing sound. Actually I recall my mother going shopping and I giving her the instrctions of what album to pick up for me. I immediately put it on the turn table and was never the same - my mother on the other hand imediately hated it and her. To this day when we argue about ANYTHING, she still says, I am always trying to shove my opinions down her throat and it all started with that damn Joni Mitchell! I felt proud to have "discovered" the album and buy it before my cousin did. To know all of the words and have a personal relationship with the whole package. I went out and bought LOTC and Clouds within a month or 2 and then STAS. By January of 72 I was sitting in the 8th row and watching Joni live. Except for a few moments in my life I can't think of anything that was such a turning point and defining moment both creatively - soulfully than that time in my life. I have looked for other "heroes" but just like love it always hits you when you least expect it. Every lover I have had has either been indoctrinated by me with Joni - or was as big a fan as I. I believe those are reasonable prerequisites for being my lover - don't you agree? Peace Susan Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:58:57 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: remember the first time you heard Joni Julius wrote: she would light candles and incense and read to me from Sylvia Plath, Anais Nin or Hermann Hesse. I got into Anais Nin when her diary was big, like in the 70s. I wrote to her to tell her how cool I thought she was, and she wrote back to me. I still have the hand-written letter. I wonder if Visa or American Express would accept that as payment. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:03:57 -0800 From: "Joe Gomez" Subject: live at club 47 Hi all hope that the new year is bringing everyone a renewed focus and direction on whats really important in our lives . like Elvis said "clown time is over" but enough of this i just came across some Joni music that was recorded live at club 47 anyone with any info ? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:17:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: remember the first time you heard Joni - --- Susan Guzzi wrote: >I recall my mother going shopping > and I giving her the > instrctions of what album to pick up for me. I > immediately put it on > the turn table and was never the same - my mother on > the other hand > imediately hated it and her. To this day when we > argue about ANYTHING, > she still says, I am always trying to shove my > opinions down her throat > and it all started with that damn Joni Mitchell! Susan, this is so funny - my mother couldn't stand her either. She'd ask me what "dirge" I was playing. And she would never get Joni's name right - I'm sure she screwed it up deliberately. She always called her Joni James. I'm sure she was just trying to piss me off, but I would just roll my eyes. > Every lover I have had has either been indoctrinated > by me with Joni - > or was as big a fan as I. I believe those are > reasonable prerequisites > for being my lover - don't you agree? I'm of two minds about that. On the one hand, if they love Joni, they've got to be wonderful, right? On the other hand, I want Joni all to myself! ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #9 ******************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?