From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #4 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, January 4 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 004 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: January 4 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: January 4 [les@jmdl.com] RE: first kiss ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 [Fauchja@aol.com] Re: A Birthday with Joni & DJRD [Fauchja@aol.com] DED vs Argentina ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Today in Joni History: January 4 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni and religion [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars [Susan McNamara ] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and religion ["Kakki" ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars ["Marian" ] Re: first kiss ["Kakki" ] Re: grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc ["mack watson-bush" ] talk about disrepect. ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Joni and religion ["Kakki" ] Re: DED redux ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: talk about disrepect. ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: how small is the world ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Joni and religion [colin ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni and religion [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and religion ["Kakki" ] Girls in the Valley? ["michael o'malley" ] Re: Joni and religion [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Girls in the Valley? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni and religion [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: how small is the world [Mags N Brei ] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [Catherine McKay Subject: RE: first kiss Garret probed: > 1) What song/music would say it for you? > 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? > first kiss from current partner? > 3)Anyone have Joni playing? > and, > 4) if you could have had Joni playing what would it have been? 1) Be my Downfall, by Del Amitri (remember that Album, Smurf?) 2) No, and N/A (rats!) 3) N/A 4) Coyote/Song for Sharon/Refuge of the Roads 4 is a bit of a giveaway - I have so many rocky feelings tied up with Hejira that in the right situation the whole thing could be somewhat cathartic. And I have no idea about the JC/NJC status of this - it has JC, but is it the right sort? - --Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On > Behalf Of Garret > Sent: 04 January 2002 01:43 > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: first kiss > > > I watched "the mirror has two faces" last night:-) I thought > i was going to hate it! But no, i enjoyed it immensely! How > fecking romantic it is!!! Well, Barbra Striesand's character > is yattering on at one point near the start how she needs to > hear Puccini during a kiss to know if it's the real thing; > what i want to know is > > As for me: > 1)Wuthering Heights by Kate Bush > 2)No, and no current partner > 3)see question 2 > 4)mmmm, ACOY from BSN probably; but then, i guess it depends > on what kind of kiss you want doesn't it? GARRET (delirious > from a looooong day trying write a STUPID essay) > > ps- i had labelled this as NJC, but took it off when i > realised it could have JC?!?! I defer this one to the experts:-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:11:32 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 I Love Dancing fool and Cool water. The rest of the lp leaves me cold. I don't think I dislike anything Joni does. Most of the disc just doesn't speak to me the way those songs do. Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:17:38 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: A Birthday with Joni & DJRD Thanks Ashara! And I'm a fan of Don Juan too. I like Otis and Marlene, Paprika Plains, Talk to Me, Silky Veils, Cotton Avenue, Dreamland. Is there a version somewhere of Joni singing all the lyrics of PP? Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:11:40 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: DED vs Argentina From what I understand, the current situation in Argentina was caused by the pilferage of economic resources and foreign aid by government officials for years. Public companies were privatized in 1993-95. Some of the proceeds went into modernizing them. But a very large part was diverted to private swiss bank accounts and to large scale corruption. As a result Argentina was forced to borrow and now they can't repay the debt. Nothing here that hasn't been summed up in DED. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 08:55:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History: January 4 <> Les, this information is incorrect. Although this was the date listed on the bootleg "From The Banks of the River Charles", her actual performance dates at Club 47 in January '68 were the 8th, 9th, & 10th. A couple months ago on E-Bay somebody auctioned off an old Club 47 calendar, and it clearly showed Joni scheduled for Jan. 8-10. Now, it IS possible that she played the 4th anyway in spite of the schedule (maybe filling in for a performer who couldn't make it), but I'd bet that the schedule is accurate. The question remains as to which one of the dates is represented on the bootleg. It could be a combination of a couple, I suppose, although it's always sounded to my ears like the same show to me. Bob NP: Elvis C, "Home Is Anywhere You Hang Your Head" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:23:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... <> Fauchja, it's great to see your posts! No lurking, OK? :~) And if you love those songs so much, I feel it is my duty to inform you that the title is "Dancing Clown". Dancing Fool was a Zappa song. And since I think that Dancing Clown is easily hands down the worst thing Joni's ever put out, I'd love to hear why you like it so. I can find some pleasure in the Steve Stevens guitar riff, but I just don't see any point to the 'story'. And it suffers from the same heavy-handed production that plagues most of CMIARS. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:49:51 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni and religion Hi everyone (This post begins with an answer to Colin then becomes JC :)) Some basic steps are - Learning judaism with a rabbi. The Religious Court, or Beth Din. (btw - Din means Justice/law in hebrew, Beth means house in hebrew, and many places here are named Beth-something. Beth-lehem is house of bread. Lehem=bread). The Bet Din officially oversees the formal conversion. (One part of the appearance will be to determine the Jewish knowledge of the conversion candidate). Circumcision (The Reform and Reconstructionist movements generally do not require a circumcision as part of the conversion process). Immersion (Orthodox and Conservative rabbis require both male and female conversion candidates to immerse themselves in a ritual bath called a mikveh. This ceremony is called tevillah. The mikveh can be any body of natural water. (The sea, a river, or the in doors one's where the Mikveh is always a pool with rain-water, meaning, pipes gather the raindrops straight into the pool, and nothing but rain-water) Choosing a name - Hebrew name is chosen. The public ceremony (This ceremony usually involves the convert standing in front of the congregation and giving a speech, most typically about the reasons for converting or the lessons learned through the conversion experience) I must say, Colin, that none of the above is my cup of tea. One of my best friends, a sweet young man who played the guitar like a devil and was a great Joniman too, became religios 10 years ago and i wish you all never to have to witness such a sad transformation like that with the people you love. From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. This is where this post is becoming JC and i wanted to talk about it with the group for sometime now so maybe this is the right time. I hear songs like 'Job's sad song' and i'm confused. The one Joni is talking to in that song is God. He's the one her bitter confession is directed to. But how can you talk, blame and criticize something you don't even believe exists? "You make everything i dread and everything i fear come true" - how come? You think he's nothing, an invention - then why even bother? It's confusing. Then Jesus in some of Joni's songs. "Some turn to Jesus some turn to heroin" - true and i totaly agree with this tragical point of view she's talking about. "Jesus was a beggar he was rich in grace" - yes, and Pinokio was made of wood and became human. "We could talk about Jesus and Hitler..." - that speaks for itself. God - "Mythical god" vs "A child of God". But the general spirit is more like "God goes up the chimney" and Joni the Jezebel "Oh come let us adore - ME!". But "Job's sad song" and others are confusing. Magdalene, as i see it, is a human story for Joni, not a religios one -i can understand that, though i don't understand her need to go to those books and stories in order to find a metaphor. And every now and then another religios symbol appears in her songs and paintings making it more confusing to understand what Joni thinks of religion , all religions, these days. I still think that while there are so many forces in this world these days that want to own our freedom and ruin and fight the earth to death - religion is one of the worst. Everything said here wasn't said in anger at all. I'm only trying to understand where Joni stands with this issue and to learn from what you think and feel. Have a peaceful weekend everyone, Nuriel (Haifa, Israel) Colin wrote: "How do they convert then where you are, which I assume is Israel?" _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 07:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: "...And since I think that Dancing Clown is easily hands down the worst thing Joni's ever put out, I'd love to hear why you like it so." Bob, you need to do what Myrtle did - put your walkman on and dance around the kichten. Love, Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:28:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... <<> Not really my style...though I do think the Dancing Clown video of Joni dancing with her cat is pretty cute. She always speaks of DC as a little movie, yet the "little movie" they made of the song has nothing to do with it, really...strange. Bob NP: Elvis C, "Still Too Soon to Know" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 07:41:24 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Books'n'movies I thought "Doctor Zhivago" was a much better film than book. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 07:44:54 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... I wrote: "Bob, you need to do what Myrtle did - put your walkman on and dance around the kitchen." Bob wrote: "Not really my style...though I do think the Dancing Clown video of Joni dancing with her cat is pretty cute. She always speaks of DC as a little movie, yet the "little movie" they made of the song has nothing to do with it, really...strange." But it shows you that you can only light your smoke AFTER youv'e finished doing the dishes! And watching Joni playing guitar with the broom - what more can you wish for? Ever since i found out that the song is about horses (thanks to the amazing JMDL site) - it even makes it double-fun for me. Oh and i always wanted to ask you, Bob - how on earth did Billy Idol got into a Joni song? I think it's great that Joni and Idol worked together. What do you know about the Joni-Idol thing? Thanks, Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:12:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... <> From her 1988 CMIARS promo-CD: DJ: What about "Dancin' Clown" then with Billy Idol? This is the one when we first read about this in some of the gossip papers here some months ago, some people were saying what is she doing now? Because people remembered your adventures into jazz, and this seemed to be another venture that was going to surprise us. The combination works. How did you come across Billy Idol? JM: Well, we were sitting in the Grammys, my husband and I, and Billy was performing, and he was great that night. I just thought he was fantastic. The old spirit, the original spirit of rock and roll, was very much there and plus there was a new energy. It was both modern and nostalgic. And I said to Larry, "God, wouldn't he make a great Rowdy Yates?" And it's something that I've done a little bit of in my songs -- well, often I would do my own characters, like the waitress in "The Last Time I Saw Richard," you know, "drink up now / it's getting on time to close." So I would disguise my voice and play these characters anyway. So the natural evolution is to begin casting, which I did some of on the last album. Rod Steiger plays the preacher. So it was a natural extension of things I've been playing around with for years. " If you want to know more, just search our article database for "Billy Idol". Horses? Dancing Clown's got nuttin' to do with horses. Bob NP: Dave Edmunds, "Girls Talk" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:20:18 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... <> Except for how she came up with the character's names, that is...the song itself doesn't have anything to do with horses... Bob, amending his own post ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:17:40 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Robert Johnson on Mars I recently had an e-mail from Warren Allen, whose 'alternate tunings' webpage link I posted on the list last week, asking if I knew whether Joni had ever learnt to play the guitar in standard tuning (on his site he quotes from Mark Hanson's book 'The Alternate Tunings Guide for Guitar' (Amsco Publications, 1991) that Joni Mitchell "has always played only in alternate tunings. She has never learned to play in standard tuning." Doing some research I found an article from 'Acoustic Guitar' magazine (August 1996) - http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9608ag.cfm - which states that "only two of her songs 'Tin Angel' and 'Urge for Going' are in standard tuning." Does anyone on the list know if this is correct? I also found the following about her guitar style - in an interview with English guitarist Martin Simpson in Guitar Player (Feb 1995), http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9502gp.cfm which I thought some might enjoy: JM: "When I'm writing, I put the guitar in the tuning first of all-- sometimes a familiar tuning. I have 50 of them now. Sometimes I get lost going between one and the other, and I find a new one. Then I have an adventure ahead of me because I have to figure out the shapes in it in order to retrieve the composition. Once I find six or seven chords, I begin to arrange them in an attractive manner. Because of the way I play now I can't really remember the whole chronology of it. I tend to think of the top three strings as muted trumpets, or the high end of an orchestra--horn stops. I think of the midrange as viola, I guess not violins--but the orchestra's mid-register, say French horn and viola. The thumb is a very sparse, eccentric bass line. Timewise the thumb can play vertically while the rest of the fingers are swinging, which gives a funny kind of Senegalese quality to my shuffle, as if my thumb is playing a monkey chant and the rest of me is swinging somewhere in the U.S.A.--like Robert Johnson on Mars." PaulC np 'Urge for Going' by Shawn Colvin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:23:54 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars At 6:17 PM +0000 1/4/02, Paul Castle wrote: >Doing some research I found an article from 'Acoustic Guitar' magazine >(August 1996) - http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9608ag.cfm - which >states that "only two of her songs 'Tin Angel' and 'Urge for Going' are in >standard tuning." > >Does anyone on the list know if this is correct? Yes, although since 1996 she also wrote "Havana in Harlem" in standard tuning. As far as I know, those are the only 3 songs in standard. >"Because of the way I play now I can't really remember >the whole chronology of it. I tend to think of the top three strings >as muted trumpets, or the high end of an orchestra--horn stops. >I think of the midrange as viola, I guess not violins--but the >orchestra's mid-register, say French horn and viola. The thumb >is a very sparse, eccentric bass line. Timewise the thumb can >play vertically while the rest of the fingers are swinging, which >gives a funny kind of Senegalese quality to my shuffle, as if my >thumb is playing a monkey chant and the rest of me is swinging >somewhere in the U.S.A.--like Robert Johnson on Mars." > This is why I love Joni Mitchell...her creativity sends chills up my spine!!! great quote, Paul. thanks, sue PS when did Shawn Colvin cover Urge for Going? Where can I find that? - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:40:02 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... Bob wrote: "Dancing Clown's got nuttin' to do with horses. Except for how she came up with the character's names, that is...the song itself doesn't have anything to do with horses" Naming the characters with racehorses names has SO much to do with the song. Sure, it's a gang of men and 1 woman kinda song - but once i read what Mimi posted on the JMDL site, it was so nice - i mean, to think that Joni could talk about the gang in the song as if they're all horses! hehe - and that high yellow Suzie! hehe - too late, Bob, ever since i read it in the lyric glossary, whenever i hear the song, i'm laughing cause the thought of men and women as racehorses is so funny! :) For those who still didn't read what Mimi wrote in the JMDL - here it is: "Joni laughed that great musical chortle of hers, and told me that she had no idea it was a Rawhide reference, but that Rowdy Yates was a racehorse right off her program from the Santa Anita track, and that the names from that song, were all racehorses. {I just love a good anecdotal explanation straight from the source!}" Nuri p.s. Thank you so much Bob for the Idol information. It's more and more that i hear and read about Joni feeling like a playwright/director and i like it a lot. I remember her saying - it was a radio interview when TTT was released - that she acts the lyrics and that like an actor she can change the feeling that's coming out of the lyrics according to the character she's choosing to play. When listening to her songs after that, i could hear what she was talking about. _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:43:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Shawn covers UFG <> Just ask the covers guy! :~D This is from an AWESOME collection of early Shawn, 1975, on NPR. The sound is studio good! Thanks to the equally awesome Catherine U. Turley for sharing it with us in the first place! I don't have the full track listing in front of me, but she also does great versions of "Can't Find My Way Home", "Suzanne", and a knockout "Conversation"! The Joni covers are also available on one of the previously released Covers volumes, so you can get either all Shawn or all Joni covers! :~) Bob NP: Nick Lowe, "Indoor Fireworks" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:56:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... <> Just keep this in mind...with the possible exception of Cheech & Chong (a novelty throw-in that works splendidly) & the double tracked Indian voice in DJRD, Joni never used other's vocals upfront in her pre-Klein period, nor has she done so in her post-Klein period. But lo & behold, on WTRF/DED/CMIARS, we get all these duets and vocal throw-ins with people who JUST HAPPENED to have big hits at the time! What a coincidence! My hunches have always told me that behind the scenes these pairings were not Joni's idea. If it WAS a natural evolution, like she says, why does she basically abandon the approach on her current records? Harlem in Havana could potentially have lots of vocal throw-ins, but it doesn't. Same with "Love Puts On A New Face"...lots of male parts in that one, but sung by Joni. Same with "Facelift" & "No Apologies". And guess what? The songs are better because of it... Just food for thought. Bob NP: James Cotton, "down at your buryin'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:10:10 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... Bob, Thanks for your correction. I stand corrected. I like Dancing Fool as well. I think there's a wimsey (sp) there that only peeks out of alot of Joni's music. There's an energy there that escapes the heavy-handed production. I agree that this album and DED is extremely over-produced. For that matter, Cool Water is very over-produced, but is saved by the interplay of the Joni/Willie vocals. And I just listened to the radio interview Joni did with Capital Radio in England after CMIARS came out. Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:34:36 EST From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc ugh...Bjork's Vespertine got one little nomination while Alicia Keys got six ::puke::. Hooray for India.Arie! The only reason i'll be watching this year is for the Joni tribute. I'll fall over in my chair if they play anything from Hej, DJRD, mingus, or other 80's and 90's stuff. They're such Blueheads. Maybe she'll preview the new album. As far as RLJ goes, I got "The Magazine" the other day and other than Prelude to Gravity(Reminds me a lot of Paprika Plains) and The Real End I don't think i'll like this album very much. Compared to Joni her verse is very freeform and self-contradictory. I feel like i'm being had (ala Bob Dylan). I'm still going to get Pirates though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:38:51 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... Good points, Bob. Interesting. Could be a Geffen thing too, you know. BTW - Are you sure that the Klein period is over? :) He produced BSN and played on TTT so i wonder how much influence he still has on her as a musician/producer. I must say that i never heard anything of Klein's solo/non-Joni music. I searched the AG (audiogalaxy) - found one thing (I'm afraid i don't remember the name of the song/work) but it's never on line. I wonder what his music like. You know, a bit. I always say that Klein's still hanging around her because he knows that the moment she's out of his sight - he'll get a hell of a traditional Joni ex-lover song and i'm sure he fears it more than the devil!!! :) Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:49:36 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Hey, SF Bay Area JMDLers Does anyone want to get together to go see Patricia Barber at Yoshi's in Oakland on January 8, 9 or 10th (Tues, Wed, or Thurs)? I'm going for sure on one of those days. Here's a mini-bio of Patricia (who is a favorite of Les Irvin's) with the requisite Joni content: "Critics have always had a tough time pinning down the musical style of pianist/vocalist Patricia Barber. From Chicago and a mainstay at the Green Mill, Barber has become a major force in jazz and music. This, after five CDs in which she pushed the limits as an improviser, singer, and songwriter. Barber matches wit and emotional revelation with inventive playing and delicate conversational phrasing. She can conjure Joni Mitchell as well as the likes of jazz hipsters like Bob Dorough, Mose Allison, and Dave Frishberg. Her latest release is a standards album on Blue Note, Nightclub, a moving document of her unique transformations of jazz standards. Her witty re-inventions of unlikely pop tunes are also unique and refreshing. As a performer and a songwriter, Barber continually grapples with contradiction, achieving complex balances between aloofness and intimacy, deep feeling and sheer fun. She is riveting as a pianist, pushing herself and her band members to produce stunning improvisations. Her singing can con vey both cool detachment and frank vulnerability." - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:51:35 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars Paul wrote: The last sentence of this statement is not correct according to a first hand aquaintance of mine. I know a guy who's band would share dates at a Detroit club called The Poison Apple with Chuck and Joni in the mid sixties. Comparing notes, this must have been before Pat Henry had met Joni in The Cellar. Sid, the head of this band, The Spikedrivers, told me he used doodle around on guitar with Joni before or after sets. Pointedly asking, he insists that Joni was only using standard tunings when he knew her. Penny NP Shawn Colvin - Conversation (Catherine Turley found these covers, done by Colvin during Public Radio Appearances in 1975/76. I think they were sent sometime in the last several months to Bob for the Covers Project.) Does anyone on the list know if this is correct? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:54:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and religion Nuriel wrote: > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. I hear songs like 'Job's sad song' and i'm confused. The one >Joni is talking to in that song is God. He's the one her bitter confession is directed to. But how can you talk, blame and >criticize something you don't even believe exists? What leads you to believe this? She certainly isn't some religious fundamentalist or particularly devout about religion but she does have beliefs. She has spoken of them a number of times in interviews. From what I can gather from listening to her she is a kind of Buddhistic Christian with a great appreciation for Native spirituality. ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:12:43 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars I'm sure that Joni knows how to play in standard tuning. I think before she started composing her own songs, she performed a lot of folk tunes. Supposedly only three of her compositions are in standard - the two you mention and Harlem In Havanah. Marian Vienna - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Paul Castle" Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:17:40 -0000 >I recently had an e-mail from Warren Allen, whose 'alternate tunings' >webpage link I posted on the list last week, asking if I knew whether >Joni had ever learnt to play the guitar in standard tuning (on his site he >quotes from Mark Hanson's book 'The Alternate Tunings Guide for Guitar' >(Amsco Publications, 1991) that Joni Mitchell "has always played only >in alternate tunings. She has never learned to play in standard tuning." > >Doing some research I found an article from 'Acoustic Guitar' magazine >(August 1996) - http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9608ag.cfm - which >states that "only two of her songs 'Tin Angel' and 'Urge for Going' are in >standard tuning." > >Does anyone on the list know if this is correct? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:03:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: first kiss > 1) What song/music would say it for you? Brazilian music > 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? > first kiss from current partner? It was either a Monkees or Buffalo Springfield song > 3)Anyone have Joni playing? First kiss with first great love was while listening to the Blue album for the first time at a beach house party - think it was All I Want, because immediately afterward I was trying to work that one out on my guitar ;-) > and, > 4) if you could have had Joni playing what would it have been? The Blue moment was perfect ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:25:27 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc I love the magazine by RLj. I rate it up there with Pirates and the debut album and Girl at her Volcano (which came in the mail today and I am listening to now.) . Can't get too much of any of the four. But I like RLj as much as Joni. blasphemy. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:34 PM Subject: grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc > ugh...Bjork's Vespertine got one little nomination while Alicia Keys got six > ::puke::. > > Hooray for India.Arie! The only reason i'll be watching this year is for the > Joni tribute. > > I'll fall over in my chair if they play anything from Hej, DJRD, mingus, or > other 80's and 90's stuff. They're such Blueheads. Maybe she'll preview the > new album. > > As far as RLJ goes, I got "The Magazine" the other day and other than Prelude > to Gravity(Reminds me a lot of Paprika Plains) and The Real End I don't think > i'll like this album very much. Compared to Joni her verse is very freeform > and self-contradictory. I feel like i'm being had (ala Bob Dylan). I'm > still going to get Pirates though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:33:22 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni and religion Kakki wrote: > Nuriel wrote: > > > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. there is abig difference bewteen someone not being religious and someone being an athiest. On can have a strong faith in a Supreme Being and not follow any religion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:35:23 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: talk about disrepect. Made the trip to the adjoining town today for supplies. Thought I would check out the record store again. Wanted something new badly and the mail is so slow. It was the usual. The music playing was awful but then one song came on that was quite nice, really pleasant, and I was enjoying being there for those 3 or 4 minutes. It was K.D. Lang. I really like to hear her sing though I don't really care for her material. She is so good. What a voice. She was singing with a dude I didn't recognize. Anyway, the Joni bin and the others i looked into were empty or had albums I already had so I made my way to the bargain bin. EEEEk. There was Joni. About 15 Joni cd's of court and spark. On sale. Along with Janis and Carly. Guess that might have been fortuitous if I didn't have that album but Joni, shoved to the BACK of the bargain bin. I placed her in the front where the album cover showed and put the nobody that was covering her up in the back. I wanted to shout at the, mostly kids, others in the store and tell them that if they wanted the full package, to truly be moved and enlightened, then here it is. I thought better of it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:30:34 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and religion Of course, but the rest of Nuriel's quote that I included said she did not believe in God's existence (using "God" here as synomymous with "Supreme Being.") Kakki > > Nuriel wrote: > > > > > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. > > there is abig difference bewteen someone not being religious and someone being > an athiest. On can have a strong faith in a Supreme Being and not follow any > religion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:44:48 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: DED redux > > From: "Bree Mcdonough" > > Subject: Re: DED redux > > >. DED just leaves me COLD> > > Maybe,I'll give it another go in four years and see if anything on my > > part has changed? > > > > Bree > > > >Dear Bree > >I find that the albums that are too "obvious", meaning the ones that are >instantly liked, >are the ones I get bored with after 2 or 3 listens. Conversely, the ones >that take a while >to discover will reveal hidden treasures at every listen for years to come. >Likewise the song on an album I like least the 1st time becomes my favorite >on the 5th play, >this happens all the time. > >You may never like DED though, but please don't give up after just 1 >listen. > >Laurent Hi Laurent, I hear what you are saying. I usually like something right off or I don't and never will. There have been few exceptions to this..........Diana Krall comes to mind,I was pretty lukewarm about her. But this has changed........she sounds so wonderful to me now. I love her phrasing especially,how she wraps her self around a word then releases it. I will give DED a visit before four years. In fact,I had it on the other night;two wanna be drummers (nephews) were over and I played "Smokin"..they liked it. I heard the word COOL several times,they liked the beat. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:55:47 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: talk about disrepect. Yes, Brenda, it was. I thought as I stood there that it sounds like Tony Bennett. Then I thought "nah." mack > > > On 4 Jan 2002, at 16:35, mack watson-bush wrote: > > It was K.D. Lang. I really like to hear her sing though I don't > > really care for her material. She is so good. What a voice. She was singing > > with a dude I didn't recognize. > > Wonder if it was the new duet with Tony Bennett... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:00:38 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: first kiss My first kiss was with a boy named Tony. And no there wasn't any music playing. We were in second grade and the kiss happened in a field. I can remember this as if it were yesterday. The interesting part of this story is that Tony was my mailman (not milkman) up until two years ago. And he has been a life-long friend of my brother and actually my whole family. Every time we we see each other,it's weird, we both blush a little. (Him being a married man with five or six children...very sweet) Bree >Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:03:40 -0800 > > > 1) What song/music would say it for you? > >Brazilian music > > > 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? > > first kiss from current partner? > >It was either a Monkees or Buffalo Springfield song > > > 3)Anyone have Joni playing? > >First kiss with first great love was while listening to the Blue album for >the first time at a beach house party - think it was All I Want, because >immediately afterward I was trying to work that one out on my guitar ;-) > > > and, > > 4) if you could have had Joni playing what would it have been? > >The Blue moment was perfect ;-) > >Kakki _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:01:34 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: how small is the world Mags- what a great discovery!! My small world with JMDLers is that YOU live a 3 minute car ride from my Mother's house where I grew up!!! Best Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:52:14 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars >> quotes from Mark Hanson's book 'The Alternate Tunings Guide for Guitar' >> (Amsco Publications, 1991) that Joni Mitchell "has always played only >> in alternate tunings. She has never learned to play in standard tuning."> Penny wrote: > The last sentence of this statement is not correct according to a first > hand aquaintance of mine. Thanks for the story, Penny - lucky guy!!! Thanks also - Sue, Michael and Marian - for confirmation of the standard tuning songs. I found this in an interview Joni did with DJ Tony Hale on London's Capital Radio for a show called 'Rock Master Class (London, England, December 29, 1985) see http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/851229rmc.cfm >>>>>> TH: You don't tune a guitar the same way -- the conventional tuning, E, A, D, G, B, E, I don't think, do you? JM: Well, when I started playing guitar -- I'm trying to think now when I got my first six-string guitar. I guess it was probably 1964. It was a nylon string, it had a classical neck, a wide neck on it, and at that time I played in standard tuning. It wasn't until I began to write my own songs that I began to crave chords that I didn't have the dexterity with my left hand to make. The voicings that I heard, the music that I wanted to make, I simply couldn't get out. And it was a frustration because, you know, I could learn your F chord and your G chord, and your minor, and a couple of things like that, but after a while there was no -- it seemed like every variation or combination of chords had already been a well-traveled course. It was Eric Anderson that showed me some of the first open tunings in the coffee houses in those days. Open G, D Modal, Open E, which I guess is the same as Open -- Open G, Open D -- pure major chords, anyway, were used among some of the people who played more blues oriented folk music. And so I learned those. And then I began to hybrid them. And the only person I knew that was also doing that at the same time was Buffy St. Marie who had developed some interesting-sounding chords with more modal than major or minor, and that modality drew my ear." >>>> PaulC PS. I know what Joni means by "it seemed like every variation or combination of chords had already been a well-traveled course." Only now, almost 40 years later, most of us find it hard to come up with an 'open tuning' that doesn't sound like "one of Joni Mitchell's"!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 01:42:26 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni and religion Kakki wrote: > Of course, but the rest of Nuriel's quote that I included said she did not > believe in God's existence (using "God" here as synomymous with "Supreme > Being.") yes but I was referring to the comments about not understanding how someone could write about God when they are not religious. I was therefore driecting my comment at that and not at Joni. > > > Kakki > > > > Nuriel wrote: > > > > > > > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. > > > > there is abig difference bewteen someone not being religious and someone > being > > an athiest. On can have a strong faith in a Supreme Being and not follow > any > > religion. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:39:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars << Pointedly asking, he insists that Joni was only using standard tunings when he knew her. >> Well hey, Penny!! What a joy to see you again! As for Joni's alternate tunings, what about her piano compositions? Wouldn't they be in 'standard' tuning by default, unless she monkeyed around with the tunings of the piano strings? I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, I truly don't know. Bob NP: The Police, "I Can't Stand Losin' You" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:27:20 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion Kakki wrote: "She certainly isn't some religious fundamentalist or particularly devout about religion but she does have beliefs. She has spoken of them a number of times in interviews. From what I can gather from listening to her she is a kind of Buddhistic Christian with a great appreciation for Native spirituality. ;-)" That's what i wanted to know, Kakki. You're so lucky. You can hear interviews with Joni sharing her point of views (Kakki, you even met her face to face for such an amazing conversation) - but me, i never heard anything here in Israel from Joni (not about Joni) in the media other than what i could learn from her lyrics. That was untill i joined the list and even now, as i learn something new about Joni everyday, there are so many things i still realy want to know, and this was one of them. I thought that Joni was a non-religious person only from what seemed to be a non-religious feeling in her lyrics, but that was just my eyes/mind trying to work out the meaning of things, and like i said, i was confused and i knew you guys would tell me what you know. And that was all just an introduction to - Thank you, Kakki:)! You and Colin spoke of some ways of belief and of whom one believes in. (I used the word God in general just to make it easier to understand and for us to talk about) - it was good to read your thoughts and opinions. Love, Nuri p.s. Just to help you understand how sometimes here in Israel (and i'm sure it happenes everywhere) the media makes a mess of facts - When Joni and her daughter found eachother, the most important news-paper here named 'Yediot Acharonot' (Up to date news in hebrew) wrote that the only thing Joni was sad about when she met Kilauren was that Kilauren didn't have the chance to meet her Grandmother because Myrtle was already dead. When i joined the list and found out that Myrtle was very much alive - i was realy happy. I'm a grannyboy, hehe:) That reminds me that i do believe that with that happy ending of the Mitchell women story - Joni should get the Granny award :) _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:36:23 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and religion Nuriel, Just about everything I've learned about Joni I read in the articles section of the JMDL site, so the resources are there for everyone! There are so many amazing interviews with her over the years. I think she also may have mentioned something about Buddhism and Christianity at the PWWAM taping in '98. She has spoken of turning to God in tough times and there was something I either read or listened to recently where she said she even went through a slightly born-again Christian phase around the Ladies of the Canyon time frame, which I found surprising. It seems to me like she has developed a very full and broad/universal spirituality and I do perceive that in much of her lyrics. That's awful about the paper saying Myrtle was already dead! lol Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:53:20 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Girls in the Valley? Hi there, CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni import CD. Does anyone have any idea of what this is? Michaelo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:22:02 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion Thanks, Kakki :) The articles/interviews are realy amazing. I'm doing my best to read as much as i can and since Les has started posting the Today in Joni History it's even better. I think it was you, Kakki, who not long ago mentioned the interview with the sad-sad story of Anna - so i read it the moment you wrote about it and that interview is a treausre. So thanks for that one too!:) "She said she even went through a slightly born-again Christian phase around the Ladies of the Canyon time frame" That's so interesting, Kakki. I read she felt that For The Roses was in a way a religios work/trip for her. "That's awful about the paper saying Myrtle was already dead! lol" It also said that Joni's favorite food is liver with onions and wine sauce (which i now understand is true as i read it also in other articles) and that when Kilauren came to Joni's house for the first time she didn't touch it cause she's a vegetarian. This post has got me thinking of fixing something to eat. :) Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:34:16 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Girls in the Valley? In a message dated 1/4/02 9:54:05 PM, michaelo@webnet.qc.ca writes: << CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni import CD. Does anyone have any idea of what this is? >> Yeah, and what's this SIQUOMB all about? ;-) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:36:25 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion In a message dated 1/4/02 10:23:41 PM, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: << when Kilauren came to Joni's house for the first time she didn't touch it cause she's a vegetarian. >> Well, she *is* a little green! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: how small is the world ooops!!!! sorry Stephen!! I completely forgot about that one. And btw, my sister wrote and told me she was at the Hard Rock Cafe in downtown Toronto and she sat at a table and looked up at the wall to see one of Joni's guitars! maybe next trip ;-) love, Mags - --- Stephen Epstein wrote: > Mags- what a great discovery!! > My small world with JMDLers is that YOU live a 3 minute car ride from > my > Mother's house where I grew up!!! > Best > Stephen in Vancouver ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:50:00 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Bob wrote: > > "Dancing Clown's got nuttin' to do with horses. > Except for how she came up with the character's > names, that is...the song itself doesn't have > anything to do with horses" > > Naming the characters with racehorses names has SO > much to do with the song. Sure, it's a gang of men > and 1 woman kinda song - but once i read what Mimi > posted on the JMDL site, it was so nice - i mean, to > think that Joni could talk about the gang in the > song as if they're all horses! hehe - and that high > yellow Suzie! hehe - too late, Bob, ever since i > read it in the lyric glossary, whenever i hear the > song, i'm laughing cause the thought of men and > women as racehorses is so funny! :) > I remember that discussion coming up and for some reason, I remember it as being cows (cattle, bulls) rather than horses! I've never seen the video for this but I had created one in my own mind - it would be animated, with the characters being played by different types of bovines. The high-yella babe would be a Jersey cow naturally (what pretty cows these are!); Rowdy Yates would be one of those rust-coloured types (sorry, I don't know the name) and the other guy would be a black Angus. Fortunately, I can't draw, so if anyone wants the idea, it's yours for a song. ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #4 ******************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?