From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #400 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, December 29 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 400 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: December 28 [les@jmdl.com] Re: only-joni content ["mack watson-bush" ] Don't know who I should speak to.......... [JDH ] RE: only-joni content ["Deb Messling" ] fatcat+-passion+-Joni+-list=? [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: only-joni content [Jerry Notaro ] Re: It's reigning Jonifest CD's, covers, Critters [chiaroscuro@SNET.Net] RE: only-joni content - tagging system ["Brenda" ] Re: only-joni content - a suggestion re: list info ["Brenda" ] Re: only-joni content [Les Irvin ] I'm outta here! :o( ["Rachael DeRoest" ] Re: only-joni content [Randy Remote ] RE: I'm outta here! :o( ["Johnson Victor" ] Re: only-joni content - a suggestion re: list info [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: fatcat+-passion+-Joni+-list=? [Catherine McKay Subject: Re: only-joni content > Anyone who doesn't care about my opinion of the only-joni digest should skip > this. I had decided to let this lay where it was but now I don't think I will. I also was going to skip this post since those are the instructions but I could not do that either since I have to read every single thing written here. I am unable to skip over the posts I don't want to read and am forced to read them all. It really irritates and disappoints me that I have to do this but ......if it is written here I MUST read it. If I don't like it, I think I will post that and make that poster feel badly. > > A problem with email, from someone you don't know, is that it is "spoken" by > the listener. Mack seems to have taken it very personally, and apparently > with his own anger, not mine. I realize Mack only speaks for himself. His > comments on my post remind me of Joni's line about Jerry Falwell, etc. -- > preaching love like hate. I didn't take your post personally. I wasn't angry at that point either but to use your word, I was irritated that you thought you had the right to chastise others for bothering you with their posts that didn't meet up to your expectations and requirements for what is proper to post here. Hmmm. What did your post accomplish? Made you feel poweful, I suppose. Made Mark E. issue an apology for writing something that was heartfelt for him. Made Bree apologize for mentioning Ed Ames. Why didn't you just skip over it when it didn't suit you? It also amazes me that you are now doing the exact same thing that you chastise others for, getting personal. I guess it is now okay, since it is you doing it. The Jerry Falwell comment was ugly and meanspirited, but I can take it. Hate you? I don't even know you. Love you? I don't even know you. Colin might want to refresh his perspective too; > his words are not mine. Hmm. I read Colin's post. I don't remember anything he wrote that stated his words were yours. Maybe you should refresh your own perspective. > To respond to other comments, I made no reference to > Christmas. My comments (nor this site) have nothing to do with a religious > holiday. My point is this: 7 of the 10 posts today are NJC (not counting > posts responding to my post). Digest #391 had 10 of 24 posts NJC; # 393 had > 10 of 16 posts NJC. If I had saved others, I'm sure they would be similar. > My thanks to Paul and others who understood my comments. I have a busy life, > as others do, and preferrred not to scroll through so many discussions > about nothing related to JM. You must have a busy life since you found time to actually scroll through and record what posts had the njc tag on them. Unbelievable. I think dissent is your aim. > > I had looked forward to the Discussion List, as I too have loved Joni's > work, since 1968. And I looked forward to sharing info/opinions about her > and her magnificent art. That is simply untrue. If one is touched by the words of Joni Mitchell and then expounds are what has touched them and discusses their feelings pertaining to it, I would imagine you would find that objectionable. Just exactly what are the parameters that you find acceptable? Then again, I don't want to know. I have two copies of her LP's, one set worn and > scratchy; every cassette and every CD. I have every songbook published and > play her songs (self-taught & poorly) on my guitar. I have notified Simon of > two concerts not on his Appearances list that I attended, and for which I > have photos and ticket stubs. I have photos of her leaving the hotel after > a concert. I sat through a snowstorm at Red Rocks in Denver for hours > waiting for her to (not) appear. I have the copy of Architectural Digest > that featured a layout of her home. I buy every piece of music related to > her. (Is Caroline Lavelle listed as covering her "A Case of You"? Produced > years ago by William Orbit.) I have an autographed print of her oil > painting hanging in my living room. I do my paintings to her music. I'm not > special, I'm sure you all have similar stories. That was what was so > exciting to me in finding this forum. I thought I had a friend in a > JM fan. She has been a part of my life too. This is also personal, very personal. I would suppose that putting Joni's name in any discussion would meet your standards for what is permissible. Then again, maybe not. The difference between me and you is that I don't care what people post here. I welcome them to post what they want and to express themselves as they wish and to explore their passion and thoughts, as Joni has encouraged us to do. If, If I don't want to read it, I pass it up. What you have done is make those who want to express themselves more reticent to do so and yes, that angers me. Who made you the monitor of what is acceptable? > > I appreciate the posts relating to Joni Mitchell that are on the digest, and > I am thrilled to find photos and info from people who are apparently "in the > know" about her professionally, and keep us posted on upcoming events. The > entire website is fabulous and I am grateful to those who make it possible. > I appreciated the warm welcome I received when I first logged in. I guess I > thought this particular DL/digest was something else, rather than a chat > room for so many non-related subjects and very personal email. That's fine, > I can unsubscribe. It's pretty sensitive territory, you should have a > warning label for all newcomers. That pretty well says it all. I rest my case. > > This is way too long and personal. I thought I knew better than to get into > an argument. I feel like William Shatner. I think you like to argue. Isn't that why you started this in the first place? It most certainly wasn't to uplift anyone or to make anyone feel better about life or themselves. It wasn't trying to make the site better. It was about one thing, you trying to make others feel bad. Well, you accomplished that. You would be much better off reading the info you want on paper. It can't talk back. It can't forget to post the njc tag. It can't stray into areas that you deem unacceptable. And you can skip the articles you don't want to read, or can you? One thing it has taught me is to not bother in the future and to skip over posts like yours in the future. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 04:14:42 -0800 (PST) From: JDH Subject: Don't know who I should speak to.......... Having log-in problems on site. I log-in with info, get that pop up that says "Welcome back Sleepyman", go to any page, and I get Log-in prompt on upper left of every page I visit. I tried to log-in to one page 5 times, just for shits, and I was in endless "Circle Game" Any and all help greatly appreciated. Sleepy ===== Those who will give up a little freedom, for a little security, deserve neither. Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:46:36 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: only-joni content Please let's not do this. This is the "Joni Mitchell Discussion List," so why make a special tag that applies to posts that are about the plain subject of the list? It's redundant, and it's such an unintuitive procedure that people will constantly forget to do it. Proper use of the NJC tag is more logical and easier to remember. > I'm going to send this to everyone and repeat the suggestion I > made that we > should switch the flag to JC for Joni content. A couple of people agreed > with this, then I didn't hear anything more. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 2001 06:14:53 -0800 From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: fatcat+-passion+-Joni+-list=? Hmm... I suspect there may be some confusion out there about the difference between "Joni-only" and the digest. They're not the same - for those who may need clarifying. (Fatcat, are you getting the digest and expecting Joni-only content?) So, on to what I hope won't be a too long "thread" that ties together Joni and Ed Ames... When I was little, I had a huge crush on Ed Ames. Very melodic voice, I thought (although I couldn't express it that way) and I thought he was exotically handsome when playing the character Mingo. Then, along came Julie Andrews. My first female idol. Again, very melodic voice. Her voice had a clarity that was new to me. And her diction was perfect. So, I began to realize that I could be infatuated with a strong, exotic male, and aspire to be like a woman I admired... As I was growing up, my mother would roll her eyes at the latest male fantasy 'crush' which often fit a certain mold. Strong but sensitive male, usually the "exotic sidekick" of the star of the show. (like Spock in Star Trek - see, I even pull William Shatner into this somehow...) Fast forward to 7th grade. I'm sitting in music class when I'm hit over the head by this amazing voice, using incredible images to describe the feeling I've pantomimed with my fantasy figures for years. The song was Chelsea Morning. The singer was Joni. She was living the life (or so it seemed) that I'd imagined for myself since those early days of daydreaming about Ed Ames. And I wonder, what effect did television have on the popularity of Joni's music? My guess is that we'd all grown up having our heart strings plucked by a plethora of TV characters. We couldn't really love them all in real life. And yet, the life Joni describes is just that. (think of Cactus Tree, for example.) Anyway, I guess you can probably tie Joni to just about anything. And I had to chuckle about the Ed Ames stuff because for me there is a connection. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:25:47 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: only-joni content Since there is no Joni Only Digest, I suggest that you start one, have Les send you the digest that already exists, edit it, then send it to the Joni Only Digest subscribers. Jerry np: The Roches : We Three Kings ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:12:53 -0500 From: chiaroscuro@SNET.Net Subject: Re: It's reigning Jonifest CD's, covers, Critters Congratulations Rose! This sounds like a pretty interesting job. Good luck to you! Heather At 01:55 PM 12/24/01 -0500, you wrote: >Santa came to my house today. Thanks Bob for treeing these and Steve for the >beautiful artwork. And best yet, I'm employed!!! I accepted a job at JFK >hospital working for the anesthesiologists as an administrator. I'll be sure >to share all this stuff with them. I love you all. > > >Rose in NJ >NP: The Left Banke, Pretty Ballerina :~) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:16:03 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: RE: only-joni content - tagging system On 28 Dec 2001, at 8:46, Deb Messling wrote: > Please let's not do this. This is the "Joni Mitchell Discussion List," so > why make a special tag that applies to posts that are about the plain > subject of the list? It's redundant, and it's such an unintuitive procedure > that people will constantly forget to do it. Proper use of the NJC tag is more > logical and easier to remember. > I agree. In the big scheme of things, the current system works very well. In fact, this list overall works better than any other list I'm on - either personal or professional. There may be the occasional slip of not tagging or the season may have led some folks to leave off the tag because they want to send holiday wishes to everyone. I think these things are easily overlooked if we just add a little compassion to our use technology. And there's nothing like the delete key or filtering to trash/delete if there's something or someone that just simply bugs you. Brenda n.p.: Zero 7 - "Destiny" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:36:18 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: only-joni content In a message dated 12/28/2001 9:20:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > Since there is no Joni Only Digest, I suggest that you start one, have > Les send you the digest that already exists, edit it, then send it to > the Joni Only Digest subscribers. > Jerry, I always thought there was a Joni Only Digest (although I've never tried it). On the JMDL home page it reads: 4) The onlyJONI-DIGEST list: (Volume: LIGHTEST) This method collects each and every post - EXCEPT those with a special "No Joni Content" tag in the subject line - then sends 20-25 posts out to you as one email digest. This is the lowest volume method. Subscribe to the onlyJONI-DIGEST For any of the new listers, this discussion on NJC vs JC occurs about twice a year. Les has created the best method for everyone. I can sympathize for the people who want Joni only, and so many posts go untagged. That's why it's good for someone to remind us all every once in awhile to use the NJC tag. We all get lazy or forgetful. The other problem that gets brought up is *what* people consider NJC. I know some people could care less if Dolly Parton does a cover of "Magdalene Laundries", but most people *do* think it's Joni content and so do I. I can remember a few years ago, someone complained that *covers*, jonifests, etc.... were not considered Joni content. I had been one of the offenders too! I was so upset, I tagged everyone of my post NJC from then on. I announced that unless Joni herself had knocked on my door, plopped down on my sofa, and sang at least 15 songs to me personally, then all my posts would remain NJC! Well she never showed up, and I loosened up. Now *I* determine what I feel is joni related to the majority of the listers. We can't please everyone, so lets go with the flow and try to remember to tag NJC when you feel it's appropriate. Oh, and seasons greetings everyone! Jimmy (who loves all the NJC conversations) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:42:55 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: only-joni content On 27 Dec 2001, at 21:51, fatcats2 wrote: My point is this: 7 of > the 10 posts today are NJC (not counting posts responding to my post). Digest > #391 had 10 of 24 posts NJC; # 393 had 10 of 16 posts NJC. If I had saved > others, I'm sure they would be similar. Maybe I'm missing something here, but is your complaint with the fact that there are so many NJC posts which are properly labeled or that there are that many which aren't properly labeled? And if you are on the only-joni digest, how are you getting the properly labeled ones? B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 07:53:48 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: only-joni content - a suggestion re: list info On 28 Dec 2001, at 10:36, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > > We can't please everyone, so lets go > with the flow and try to remember to tag NJC when you feel it's appropriate. > It may be helpful to resend the list info/rules to the everyone once a month or every other month, just to remind people (new and old) about tagging and other list etiquette. It's here for anyone needing a refresher! : ) http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni.info Not to give you one more thing to do Les, but perhaps it could be automated like the Joni article emails. BTW - Thanks for everything you do to keep this community going. I think we should start a tip jar for you at Fair Tunes or something! http://www.fairtunes.com/index.jsp Brenda n.p.: Eric Dolphy - "Something Sweet, Something Tender" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:58:13 -0500 From: chiaroscuro@SNET.Net Subject: Re: only-joni content Very nicely put Jimmy, you NJC slut you! :-) Heather >For any of the new listers, this discussion on NJC vs JC occurs about twice a >year. Les has created the best method for everyone. I can sympathize for >the people who want Joni only, and so many posts go untagged. That's why >it's good for someone to remind us all every once in awhile to use the NJC >tag. We all get lazy or forgetful. The other problem that gets brought up >is *what* people consider NJC. I know some people could care less if Dolly >Parton does a cover of "Magdalene Laundries", but most people *do* think it's >Joni content and so do I. > >I can remember a few years ago, someone complained that *covers*, jonifests, >etc.... were not considered Joni content. I had been one of the offenders >too! I was so upset, I tagged everyone of my post NJC from then on. I >announced that unless Joni herself had knocked on my door, plopped down on my >sofa, and sang at least 15 songs to me personally, then all my posts would >remain NJC! Well she never showed up, and I loosened up. Now *I* determine >what I feel is joni related to the majority of the listers. We can't please >everyone, so lets go with the flow and try to remember to tag NJC when you >feel it's appropriate. > >Oh, and seasons greetings everyone! > >Jimmy (who loves all the NJC conversations) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:51:36 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: only-joni content At 12/28/2001 12:26 AM, TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: >there's a possibility that something is wrong with the system and at least >some of the njc posts are getting on joni-only. sometimes we put the njc in >parentheses. maybe that messes it up. It's possible that there is a glitch however I think the system is pretty solid. The subject line of every post that is sent to joni@smoe.org is scanned before it goes out to the subscribers. If these three letters appear consecutively - "njc" - regardless of case, the message is rejected and does not get sent to the Only-Joni lists. Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:51:39 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: only-joni content At 12/28/2001 07:25 AM, Jerry Notaro wrote: >Since there is no Joni Only Digest, I suggest that you start one, have >Les send you the digest that already exists, edit it, then send it to >the Joni Only Digest subscribers. Actually, the IS a Joni-Only Digest. Les - hoping he's not missing the point here.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 02:49:23 +0800 From: "Rachael DeRoest" Subject: I'm outta here! :o( Since i have just spent the last hour sifting through tons of emails that were just a bunch of petty bickering over stupid stuff...I am just gonna take that as a sign and maybe hit the road. I love me some Joni but i don't think i am learning anything by sticking around reading this BS. Maybe i will come back when you guys get things strightened out a little better. MAny thanks to those who helped me out! LOTS O LUVS Rachael - -- _______________________________________________ 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:47:44 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: only-joni content I agree with Deb. Deb Messling wrote: > Please let's not do this. This is the "Joni Mitchell Discussion List," so > why make a special tag that applies to posts that are about the plain > subject of the list? It's redundant, and it's such an unintuitive procedure > that people will constantly forget to do it. Proper use of the NJC tag is > more logical and easier to remember. > > > I'm going to send this to everyone and repeat the suggestion I > > made that we > > should switch the flag to JC for Joni content. A couple of people agreed > > with this, then I didn't hear anything more. > > ----------------------------------- > Deb Messling =^..^= > ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:5:12 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: RE: I'm outta here! :o( > Since i have just spent the last hour sifting through tons of emails that were just a bunch of petty bickering over stupid stuff... Families bicker over stupid stuff. So do people in relationships. Compared with everything I've gotten out of being a member of this list, a little bickering seems pretty minor. Believe me, things have been a lot worse. Come back and visit sometime. :~} Victor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 16:56:19 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: only-joni content - a suggestion re: list info Brenda wrote about Les: > BTW - Thanks for everything you do to keep this community going. I think we > I am deliberately not labeling this NJC, because I feel it is REALLY important for everyone to read this. Every year, as part of the Northeast Jonifest, I raise money alternately for Les at jmdl.com and Jim at JoniMitchell.com. This year the money goes to Les. I feel it is especially important to raise as much as we can, as he lost his job many weeks ago, and it is no small feat to keep the website going. Everyone that contributes to Les, whether going to Jonifest or not, gets their name entered into many wonderful giveaway prizes. Regardless of the giveaways, I encourage all of you to be as generous as possible, even if you can only afford a small amount. Checks should be made payable to Les Irvin and sent to me at: Ashara Stansfield 40 Parsonage Lane Topsfield, MA 01983 USA You can also send money with a credit card through Paypal. All the information is at www.jmdl.com/Jonifest2002 Just think of how many friends you've made here, and how much the JMDL has enriched your life. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 19:08:51 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: fatcat+-passion+-Joni+-list=? LOL - Anne, you're amazing! - --- anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Hmm... I suspect there may be some confusion out > there about the difference between "Joni-only" and > the digest. They're not the same - for those who may > need clarifying. (Fatcat, are you getting the digest > and expecting Joni-only content?) > > So, on to what I hope won't be a too long "thread" > that ties together Joni and Ed Ames... > ... > Anyway, I guess you can probably tie Joni to just > about anything. And I had to chuckle about the Ed > Ames stuff because for me there is a connection. > ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 22:18:58 -0700 From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: He.lp!!! Hi, gang, After the Christmas from Hell (well, not really, but we had to put my domestic partner's mom in a home -- she couldn't live alone any more, and we couldn't live with her, yadayadayadayada, but it's been a rough few days, and I'm glad it's over. I've decided I deserve to buy myself a Joni-related christmas present, and here's where I need your advice. This is what I see available at Amazon.com, here in the US: (1) Hits -- obviously the sheet music to the songs on the Hits album. Fine, but I'm more interested in getting something more complete. In fact, I'd probably prefer Misses, but they don't seem to offer it. (2) Anthology -- The cover looks like C&S, it was published in '99 -- can anyone tell me what songs are in it? How complete is it? What *isn't* in it? (3) Voices: The Works of J.M., by G. Hebert. I think it was Bob in SC who told me this was the book that went with one of her art showings. It's $39.95 for the hardcover, and if it is indeed a good collection of her artwork, I'll definitely get this. I was surprised to see it was available. (4) The Joni Mitchell Companion: Four Decades of Commentary (The Companion Series). Is this worth it, or can I get most of this from the wonderful archives at jmdl.com/Jonimitchell.com? What do you guys think? (5) The New Best of Joni Mitchell, by Carol Cuellar. Okay, how does this compare to the Anthology, (2) in this list. How do they differ? Which is the one to have, or should I wait for the really, honest-to-god complete volumes that are supposed to come out (soon I hope)? Which brings me to: (6) Joni Mitchell Complete, Vols. 1 and 2. NOT YET PUBLISHED. Are these really gonna be complete, as in *all* of her songs through TtT, and maybe even containing some of her earlier, unpublished songs? Anybody know anything about this -- like when *will* they be out, and is it safe/worth it to pre-order them so you can be one of the first to get them, or is that madness, and should I wait until they really exist? Arggh. (7) To further confuse me: There seems to have been an earlier "Joni Mitchell Complete", out a few years ago but "now out of print/limited avialblity", according to Amazon. What was this? Any of you have it? How does it compare to (2) and (5) above? I really appreciate any advice you can give me. I'm almost certainly going to purchace (3) Voices, since I so love her art. Buth I don't know what else I should get -- I used to have each of her albums in sheet form for piano, up to and inculding Mingus, and even (thanks to a Canadian friend) including six pulbished songs that never appeared on any album ("Jeremy" was one of them) - -- I lost everything (long story), and so I'm just starting over again. I recently bought TtT in sheet form, and am loving it. Help me, I'm falling in love with playing Joni again, thanks, my friends, walt ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #400 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?