From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #391 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, December 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 391 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: December 19 [les@jmdl.com] Re: dingo of heart and mind -- a joni parody [Booger Rhinotush ] RE: Concept Albums + Joni tributes ["Johnson Victor" ] Re: The concept of concept albums [<657174974@amena.com>] Re: dingo of heart and mind -- a joni parody ["Kate Bennett" ] I MUST BE GETTING OLD... [WARREN901@aol.com] Re: I MUST BE GETTING OLD... [cvickery@danielrealty.com] Re: I MUST BE GETTING OLD... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: I MUST BE GETTING OLD... [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Mingus - Beneath The Underdog ["Wally Kairuz" ] Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief [cvickery@danielrealty.com] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief [hell@ihug.co.nz] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief, Bob :)) [Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: dingo of heart and mind -- a joni parody Excellent! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:35:09 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue Thing Run Fast -- a joni parody in reply In a message dated 12/18/01 11:23:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > Thinking of revenge at last > Blue thing, run fast > I dunno Ali if we should let the Smurf stay in the Terrapin Station tent this year ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:31:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Mingus - Beneath The Underdog I always knew that "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was based on the excerpt from Mingus' Biography 'Beneath The Underdog', but I'd never read either the book or the particular passage. Well, lo & behold, I just got a Mingus tribute cd in the mail that I ordered for a cover, and the passage is quoted in the liner notes of the booklet. Here's what it says: "In other words, I am three. One man stands forever in the middle, unconcerned, unmoved, watching, waiting to be allowed to express what he sees to the other two. The second man is like a frightened animal that attacks for fear of being attacked. Then there's an over-loving gentle person, who lets people into the uttermost sacred temple of his being and he'll take insults and be trusting and sign contracts without reading them and get talked down to working cheap or for nothing, and when he realises what's been done to him, he feels like killing and destroying everything around him, including himself for being so stupid. But he can't - he goes back inside himself. Which one is real? They're ALL real." Just thought that was worth a posting, for others like me who've not seen it. And, strangely enough, the cover on the CD isn't "Boogie Man" but "Sweet Sucker Dance", with vocal. Bob NP: Patrick Regan Band, "Fable of the Trees" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:59:13 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Concept Albums + Joni tributes On the topic of concept albums, the issue is not whether DED is one or not. I'm more interested in JMDLers' input on the DEFINITION of a concept album? Could we agree on principle first (if possible) before aguing about specifics. In the record store last weekend I previewed a record by a new artist: Papa M (David Pajo & Tara Jane O'Neil on guitars). I purchased it because that one song I previewed sounded exactly like a JONI tuning, with acoustic guitars, although the whole album has a cohesive feeling. I don't think it is a Joni rip-off at all. Has anybody ever heard of these artists? Finally, on Amazon they're selling a Joni tribute ("Child of God" or something like that) with a naked child in a foetal position on the cover. Does anybody know whether this is any good? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:42:20 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: RE: Concept Albums + Joni tributes > On the topic of concept albums, the issue is not whether DED is one or not. > I'm more interested in JMDLers' input on the DEFINITION of a concept album? > Could we agree on principle first (if possible) before aguing about > specifics. > > There wouldn't be any point in discussing anything would there, if we all agreed? DED doesn't fit some people's definition of a concept album. Or if that's too specific, I have a vague idea that DED is sort of not really what I would consider to be like a total concept kind of album type of thing you know. Dig it??? Victor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:14:44 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Mingus - Beneath The Underdog SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: "I am three. One man stands forever in the middle, unconcerned, unmoved, watching, waiting to be allowed to express what he sees to the other two"... "Just thought that was worth a posting". Very worthy, Bob. Thanks a lot for posting this. BTW - who is God in the song?...The combination of the 3? Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:52:39 GMT From: <657174974@amena.com> Subject: Re: The concept of concept albums Hello there Laurent Olszer's interesting post about concept albums has motivated me to delurk for a while. First, I must say that I completely agree with him about compilations: for the most part, they suck. Unless the artist has only done singles, usually you don't really get the whole picture like you would do with some of his/her best albums. Now, what gives an album conceptual status? This is rather subjetive, but here are some factors I'd consider: - - Unified theme. Of course, many albums deal with, say, lost love or something, and they're not supposed to be conceptual. But it's an ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:06:01 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: dingo of heart and mind -- a joni parody ROFLMAO, i will never hear this song again without laughing... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:35:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mingus - Beneath The Underdog <> Nuri, I think that what Joni is saying is that God had claimed Charles and that he was in heaven. Therefore, God must be a "Boogie" man. When she introduced the song at a No Nukes benefit in 1979, she said "I'm hoping he (God) has a sense of humor about it". If someone has the biography, or has read it, perhaps they can give a more succint answer. I guess this is one of those things I don't know! :~) I used to think that the 'he is three' was a reference to the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost), but I don't think that's the case, especially after having read that excerpt. Bob NP: Roberto Ottaviano, "Duke Ellington Sound Of Love" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:31:39 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: joni mention? I watched Matt Lauer interview Madonna this morning. He was asking her about various songs she had written over the years. She replied that each song was like a snapshot of her life at the time the song was written. Then she said "songs are like tattoos, you know". She said it with a knowing glint in her eye as if it was a message for those in the know. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:21:08 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: I MUST BE GETTING OLD... greeting joniphiles ! i must be getting old because my memory is failing me. i was the one who made the original post about the duke concert being in '73. i could have sworn it was in may of that year. when bob pointed out it was in '74 i dedcided to find my ticket stub. after endless searching, i found the date on the ticket didn't include the year, it only had sunday, march 24 @ 8:00 p.m.on it. an interesting tidbit...the price printed on the ticket was $5.00 . ( concerts should be such a bargin now ! ) i found the ticket in an envelope with a rose joni gave me after the concert... WOW what an experience the whole evening was ! i'll keep you in suspense because i'm going to have to finish the story later. gotta run. bye all... warren keith p.s. by the way bob, how did you know i cited the wrong year ? is there a site somewhere with listing that far back or are you just superhuman ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:28:51 -0600 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: I MUST BE GETTING OLD... warren inquired : <> can i take this one, bob? warren, he's superhuman. a veritable font of joni knowledge and of musical knowledge in general. don't listen when he tries to claim otherwise. he owns all, shares all, knows all, finds all. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:35:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I MUST BE GETTING OLD... <> Very cool, Warren...with that bit of "proof", that show can be added to the list! <> D'oh!!! OK, but I'll hold you to it, Warren...sounds like a great story. <> SUBhuman is more like it! :~D I just know where to go to dig the dirt...in this case, it's at our own JoniMitchell.com. Click on appearances, then scroll down and click on "Appearance Chronology". Simon has done an amazing job of capturing all the known Joni appearances, concerts, TV broadcasts etc. You can see that '73 was an off year, and '74 was her touring year, where she played several other colleges and of course the tour was documented with MOA. Bob NP: The Carol Hamersma Trio, "West Coast Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:46:13 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: I MUST BE GETTING OLD... And March 24th, Sunday, occurred in 1974. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:39:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Mingus - Beneath The Underdog bob, this is so great!!!!!! i've been wanting to read that piece for more than a decade!!!!! nothing compares to jmdlers and the jmdl when it comes to answered prayers! wally, np: bjork: it's not up to you - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Miircoles, 19 de Diciembre de 2001 11:32 a.m. Para: Joni@smoe.org Asunto: Mingus - Beneath The Underdog I always knew that "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was based on the excerpt from Mingus' Biography 'Beneath The Underdog', but I'd never read either the book or the particular passage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:15:14 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:40:00 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (The only thing i can add to the DED talk that's been going around is that the expression dog eat dog has been pulled out of context (since the begining of the last century) to suggest ruthless self-interest. The expression appeared for the first time in the 18th-century and went "It is a hard winter when dogs eat dogs" to express desperate conditions of living. On the other hand, i heard something last night about the coyote the i realy liked. If a coyote is caught in a trap he will eat it in order to free himself.) OK enough with that :) Here's my question, "Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief" (Fiction) - Is this an expression? (I heard it also in the new Dylan album so being the non-american that i am i'm a bit confused :) Cheers, Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:02:10 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief I've heard this expression twice on M*A*S*H reruns. I posted about it on this list before and no one seemed to care. :-) I don't really know what it means. Mark > Here's my question, > > "Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief" (Fiction) - > > Is this an expression? (I heard it also in the new Dylan album so being the > non-american that i am i'm a bit confused :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:19:06 -0600 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief Nuriel asked: <<"Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief" (Fiction) - Is this an expression? (I heard it also in the new Dylan album so being the non-american that i am i'm a bit confused :) >> the whole series is: "tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, rich man, poor man, beggar man, thief, doctor, lawyer, indian chief" we used it, in elementary school, as a jump rope rhyme. the jump you "missed" on supposedly indicated the occupation of your spouse-to-be. cindy, who always "accidentally" missed on "indian chief." oh - incidentally - there was a cheesy series of books, "rich man, poor man," then "beggar man, thief," made into a miniseries in (i think) the 80's ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:30:45 GMT From: hell@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief Mark wrote: > I've heard this expression twice on M*A*S*H reruns. I posted about it on > this list before and no one seemed to care. :-) I don't really know what it > means. It comes from an old nursery rhyme, which has several different versions, and lengths. The old English version is: Tinker, Tailor Soldier, Sailor Rich Man, Poor Man Beggar Man, Thief. The "American" version is: Rich man, poor man Beggar man, thief. Doctor, lawyer, Indian Chief. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:44:57 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief >Nuriel asked: ><<"Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief" (Fiction) - > >Is this an expression? (I heard it also in the new Dylan album so >being the non-american that i am i'm a bit confused :) >> > >the whole series is: >"tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, >rich man, poor man, beggar man, thief, >doctor, lawyer, indian chief" > >we used it, in elementary school, as a jump rope rhyme. the jump >you "missed" on supposedly indicated the occupation of your >spouse-to-be. > >cindy, who always "accidentally" missed on "indian chief." > >oh - incidentally - there was a cheesy series of books, "rich >man, poor man," then "beggar man, thief," made into a miniseries >in (i think) the 80's Very good explanation, Cindy. When I was in grade school several of the teachers who happened to be nuns would jump rope witb us,not everyday but sometimes. My pals and I always giggled when the nun would miss because of the spouse bit. Funny the things you forget and haven't thought about in years and you read something and brings it all back. Bree, who always missed on lawyer. ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:29:07 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (SJC) Hi Mark, Nuriel and JMDL Friends, I don't know if it's an "expression" or not, but can tell you that it is the title of a song sung by Betty Hutton and written by H. Carmichael and P. F. Webster and featured in the movie, "The Stork Club." The version I have was recorded in 1945 (take 3). Betty Hutton was sort of a "Bette Midler" of the late 40s and early 50s, and primarily an actress/comedienne and then a singer. Off the top of my head some of the lyrics are: There's a doctor living in your town There's a lawyer and and indian too But neither doctor, lawyer nor injun chief Could love you anymore than I do.... And it's pretty much a song about "nobody loves you more that I do." Perhaps the phrase means "anyone" or like saying "every Tom, Dick and Harry" nowadays as an expression. Betty Hutton did some amazinginly funny songs, as well as some pretty ballads. Newbies to Hutton may be interested in knowing that in the Bette Midler movie, "For The Boys" Bette finally did a song that Betty Hutton recorded in 1944 called "Stuff Like That There." Thanks everyone for all the great Joni posts this year. It is indeed a family to me, since it's just me (with a mom in a nursing home.) My love for Joni and her music couldn't grow anymore that it always was, but thanks to you, I've learned so much, and met such wonderful people here. You're a great group and I wish you all peace and joy during your respective holiday seasons and celebrations. Gratefully, Gary P.S. Cindy, just saw your post, the jumprope thing is cool! Mark Domyancich wrote: > > I've heard this expression twice on M*A*S*H reruns. I posted about it on > this list before and no one seemed to care. :-) I don't really know what it > means. > > Mark > > > Here's my question, > > > > "Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief" (Fiction) - > > > > Is this an expression? (I heard it also in the new Dylan album so being the > > non-american that i am i'm a bit confused :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:03:04 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief Thank you all so much for your answers. :) It's such a nice feeling to know what's behind the words and hearing it from you is the best. Trivia is never just trivia. Not long ago a friend from the list wrote about what happened to Anna. I had no idea. Ever since then, whenever i hear Joni singing "Like fireworks in the sky" i go numb. Thanks again, Love Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:08:36 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief, Bob :)) S o r r y ! ! ! But i was right to say it's a male voice so i hope i'm not going to go to Joni hell when i die. (or is it the place where folks that never heard Joni's music go to? I wonder...all this talk about Joni heaven and Joni hell has got to me. What is a Joni heaven? What's going on there? Good music and smoke? Can i bring my friends with me?) (Oh and Bob, seeing your email with the BLOOD-RED background behind your words just glued me to the chair. Do you want me to get a heartattack...?:)) ) - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: "It is Klein's voice, sampled through the Fairlight. He states that he says the word in his "Russian Diplomat" voice..."tadooth"...something like that, phonetically speaking. Source: 1985 BBC Rock Master Class Interview" _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #391 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?