From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #345 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, November 7 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 345 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: November 6 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: November 6 [les@jmdl.com] Confusion in the big city (Nathan La Franeer) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Court and Sparks [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Peace Parades - Emmys ["Ron Greer" ] Re: Court and Sparks ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Court and Sparks [Nuriel Tobias ] Spark it, sister Keziah! [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Spark it, sister Keziah! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Court and Sparks [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Peace Parades - Emmys [Gary Zack ] It's Raining Covers! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: It's Raining Covers! [cvickery@danielrealty.com] happy birthday Joni ["joe farrell" ] Re: WFUV etc. [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: WFUV etc. [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: WFUV etc. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] november 7!!!!!!!!!! JONI CONTENT ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: It's Raining Covers! ["hell" ] Re: WFUV etc. ["hell" ] November 7th ["hell" ] birthday present for joni ["shane mattison" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 03:10:28 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: November 6 On November 6 in Joni Mitchell History: 1965: Tonight Joni performs at The Chess Mate in Detroit - the third of four nights in a row. - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 03:10:28 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: November 6 On November 6 this article was published: 1998: "Mitchell influences folk, rock" - Penn State Digital Collegian (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981106psdc.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 650 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 01:33:19 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Confusion in the big city (Nathan La Franeer) I guess that confusion ("...from confusion to the plane") takes place when you're facing a mixture of good and bad. You can't love it cause part of it is bad, you can't hate it cause part of it is good, so you go dizzy. In that sense, yes, i totaly understand why Joni could be somewhat ambivalent about leaving the City. But (and that's a big but), i think that this good-&-bad mixture is the thing she fears the most, the thing she's escaping from. Instead of looking at it as good and bad living side by side, the city's "hypocricy" is to use the good things as a decoration for the bad things in it. The confusion theme that the song begins with takes over everything and in that sense it's even hard to tell what's good and bad in the list of city sights she's naming. The parks and symphonies become as superficial as the plastic clothes. The place where meter maids and peace parades share the same space is painted by Joni as total mess. And i always felt this song is describing a total urban mess (like the paintings of that German dude, Brecht's friend, oh God what was is name?...George something...?) The "ghostly garden" lines are very strange, to say the least. The city sights in the song are very real and from this world - what's so ghostly about them? Is it like "a ghost town" that's growing there? Could it be that Joni's choice of the word "ghost" is to describe a city that's lifeless where everything in it will grow out to be lifeless too? Or is "ghostly garden", like we sometimes find in ancient Irish tales, a magical place where pale fairies and funny little demons live freely and untouched? I think of the strange back voice in the end of the song that sounds like a car passing - is very ghostly and in some way it's a reminder that Joni's a true dreamer and sometimes the way she captures things and sees them, as real as they may be, is like a dream (or a night mare) and the real things are the unseen ones. The city theme in Joni's debut was so important that she named the A side i came to the city and the B side out of the city and down to the seaside (both taken from the song "Song to a seagull"). One could say that the city as reflected here is a nightmare and the song "Song to a seagull" will probably confirm him right. Others can say that it's more about the thrill and fun and urban lights and "Night in the city" will confirm that. Others will say it's a combination of both. I think of it as a goodbie to an old world (both the real world and Joni's own world) before joining the new one. I see no reason why gangs and girlie shows should be a negative thing for Joni. Though it's not the same thing at all, i feel it's more like the "Tonight i'm going dancing with the drag queens and the punks" thing and the way that Joni's fond of non-middle-stream-people. Nuriel - --- "Mark or Travis" > wrote: >In that list of parks and plastic clothes cars and buses and cripples >seeling balloons and the rush hour of buyers and sellers, making Joni >seem like Lot escaping from his flaming city, mentioning the peace >parades is weird, and the fact that Joni's included them in her "grey" >list is (for my eyes only, Dear Bob) a statement. "Humans are hungry >for worlds they can't share" (Song to a Seagull) is surely not mocking >the unshared worlds. It's grieving them. As i see it the peace parades >are another lost world humans can't share and the way Joni's >mentioning them in Nathan makes it seem like they're also caught in >the city dirty games. > >I think there's something in what Bob said about Joni being somewhat >ambivalent about leaving the City. She talks about the 'ghostly >garden' but when she lists the things it grows with, she mentions >symphonies (culture, beauty, positive) along with the dirty trees >(pollution, negative) and parks (peaceful, positive) along with the >plastic clothes (superficial, negative) and peace parades (positive >action) along with the meter maids (money-grubbers, negative) and >wishing wells (hopeful, positive) along with the burglar bells >(negative, crime, fear, paranoia). So she does still have a few >positive things to say about the City. I think she is saying she is >sad that she will have to give up the parks & the peace parades & the >wishing wells to get away from the other negative stuff. The verse >about gangs and girlie shows doesn't fit this pattern, however. I >can't see that Joni would find anything she would miss about gangs or >girlie shows. > >Mark E. _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 01:39:51 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Court and Sparks I hear that a band named "The Court and Sparks" are about to release an album soon (or have already). Anybody knows who they are and why it's a Joni name they have chosen for themselves? Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:49:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Court and Sparks <> Nuri, I have seen info about this band while surfing the net looking for covers of the song. As far as I can tell from what I've read, there's no connection or reference to Joni altogether. They're based in San Francisco, so maybe some of the west-coasters know of them. They have 2 records out, one last year and one this year. They haven't done any Joni songs. On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my pointy head. Bob NP: Luther Allison, "You Don't Know" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:55:47 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Peace Parades - Emmys hi >>Nuriel Wrote >>I was thinking about a line in "Nathan La Franeer" saying "And the sky goes on forever without meter maids and peace >>parades". What do you think is Joni's point of view when saying that there are no peace parades in the sky? Is Joni >>mocking the peace parades on earth? Or maybe the sky for not knowing what it's like to fight for peace? or is she perhaps saying the sky is really cool because they dont *have* to have peace parades??? (or meter maids either???) Ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:16:57 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Court and Sparks >On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes >from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my >pointy head.> Isn't "court and spark" an old colloquial expression that essentially means dating? Perhaps I'm revealing my age here. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:43:30 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Court and Sparks I gave a total search on nearly every dictionary available on the net including those that search expressions from books, papers etc - and there seems to be no term as Court & Spark beside Joni's. But Sybil's got as close as i have to the answer: one dictionary that deals with American expressions from the 19 century says that the expression "to Court and Spark it" was "invented" in New England and was used for dating. Sybil...19 century? Your younger than my mother! Love, Nuriel - --- "Sybil Skelton" > wrote: >>On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes >>from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my >>pointy head.> > >Isn't "court and spark" an old colloquial expression that essentially means >dating? Perhaps I'm revealing my age here. > >Sybil > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:01:00 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Spark it, sister Keziah! Here's what seems to be the answer, taken from "The Americanism dictionary" : "TO SPARK IT. To court. To court and spark it. Fromed and used chiefly in New England. You were a nation sight wiser than brother Jonathan, sister Keziah, poor little Aminadab, and all the rest; and above all, my owny, towny Lydia, the Deacon's darlin darter; with whom I've sparked it, pretty often-times, so late.--D. Humphrey, The Yankee in England. SPARKING. 'To go a sparking,' is to go a courting; a common expression in the Northern States. Mr. Justice Crow was soon overtaken; Lieut. Col. Simcoe accosted him roughly, called him "Tory," nor seemed to believe his excuses; when, in the American idiom for courtship, he said, "he had only been sparking."--Simcoe, Military Journal, p. 73. He rolled his eyes horribly, and said that that was the way the young men cast sheep's eyes when they went a sparking.--Mrs. Clavers's Western Clearings, p. 16." _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:25:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Spark it, sister Keziah! Nice piece of research, Nuri! I thought that was a "borrowed" term...Les, should Nuriel's reference be included as a glossary term? And getting back to your great posts about Nathan La Franeer, in performance she said that it was a companion piece to Marcie, which is also a song about someone leaving the city and the dualities between the "reds" & the "greens". Fascinating songs, both of them. Do you think there's also a method to her song sequencing on STAS? Most of you here are more comfortable with this record than I am; I didn't pick it up until I joined this group in 1998. Bob NP: Allman Brothers, "Les Brer in A Minor" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:16:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Court and Sparks SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < th an album ey have chosen for themselves?>>On a similar note, IS "Court & Spark" a Joni-coined idiom? I think it comes from an earlier source, though I don't know what it is off the top of my pointy head. Bob is correct. Court and Spark is an old familiar term for dating. I imagine its root comes from: court: conduct or attention intended to win favor; and spark: a latent particle capable of growth or developing. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 17:05:37 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Peace Parades - Emmys That was exactly my take on that line too, Ron! The sky goes on forever...without (the need for) meter maids and peace parades.... Gary Ron Greer wrote: > > hi > > >>Nuriel Wrote > >>I was thinking about a line in "Nathan La Franeer" saying "And the sky goes on forever without meter maids and peace > >>parades". What do you think is Joni's point of view when saying that there are no peace parades in the sky? Is Joni > >>mocking the peace parades on earth? Or maybe the sky for not knowing what it's like to fight for peace? > > or is she perhaps saying the sky is really cool because they dont *have* to have peace parades??? (or meter maids either???) > > Ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 17:22:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: It's Raining Covers! Hey Y'all, I did some more snooping around today and found another handful of Joni covers, so we've surpassed the 800 mark by a couple. Haven't snagged 'em all, but we're getting there! Better start chopping more wood, Hell! :~) Latest cover received: Both Sides Now by Davy Graham (you don't wanna know how much I had to cough up for this one) Latest cover obtained: River by Peter White, a deal on E-Bay at $4.65! Latest cover discovered: River by Enzo Pietropaoli (jazz bassist) on his 1999 CD "Stolen Songs" Now working on: Volume 27 (!) (Way past the point of good sense!) :~) Bob NP: Tori, "Bells For Her" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:31:18 -0600 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: Re: It's Raining Covers! <> Oh, but Bob! Too much of a good thing can be wonderful! Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:56:14 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: happy birthday Joni Just want to wish Joni a really Happy Birthday. Hope she has a wonderful day. Love, Joe Farrell. NP: HOSL (Don't Interrupt The Sorrow) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:36:37 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: WFUV etc. All right Sue ! I will be listening between 7 and 8 (and more, if necessary). I had alerted the list to WFUV's Joni day just before you did, as a result of my recent listening (I had not been aware of the station until a couple of months ago). Well, Sunday I was on my way to work (ugh) when the guy on WFUV decides to play four covers in a row from Blue: Blue Sarah McLachlan A Case of You Phoebe Snow River Holly Cole All I Want Keith Jarrett (apropos of his recent concert review by Stephen Epstein) And the guy (forgot his name) tries to describe how great a songwriter JM is and gives up - saying "well, it's just so obvious". So, I figure I'd better subscribe to the station as a matter of conscience (not to mention tithing for the propagation of the faith), which I did. I believe they do this all day thing on her birthday every year (only a few artists are so honored - I was told by a friend that Hank Williams is another). Can learn more at www.wfuv.org. Speaking of which, Bob M, have you considered (or done) any covers CD's that replicate a JM album (using the best of the covers) ? I realize that may not be possible for all of the albums, but it must be possible for at least some of them. Finally, another friend who was at the Central Park Joni Jazz concert wondered if there was a tape of that - I recall your posting that there was - could you update me on that ? Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:20:39 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: WFUV etc. In a message dated 11/6/01 10:38:07 PM, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: << Speaking of which, Bob M, have you considered (or done) any covers CD's that replicate a JM album (using the best of the covers) ? >> Why, no, I haven't. But I bet the *nice* Bob M has. But seriously, folks, I think this is a great idea. It could even make a nice, quick stocking-stuffer for you-know-who that will give her a taste of what's coming when the box set is finally done. I bet Muller could put together a damn fine CD of the best covers of songs from one album. And who wouldn't love something extra to do this holiday season? (By the way, has any one album been completely covered, Bob?) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 23:56:22 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: WFUV etc. << Speaking of which, Bob M, have you considered (or done) any covers CD's that replicate a JM album (using the best of the covers) ? I realize that may not be possible for all of the albums, but it must be possible for at least some of them.>> Extremely interesting question, Bob...only two can be replicated in their entirety: Blue & Hejira (Thanks to Lorraine Gervais & her cover of Blue Motel Room) STAS lacks 3 songs Clouds lacks 1 (The Gallery) LOTC lacks 2 (Blue Boy, The Arrangement) FTR lacks 5 (a real crime!!) C&S lacks 3 HOSL lacks 3 (although Bjork has done Boho Dance, it's just not out yet) DJRD lacks most of 'em Mingus only lacks 1! (The Wolf...) And then up from there the air gets pretty thin! Finally, another friend who was at the Central Park Joni Jazz concert wondered if there was a tape of that - I recall your posting that there was - - could you update me on that ? >> Yes, the concert was recorded by Simon and shared with the list. It's on 2 cassette tapes or 3 CD's. The sound is really nice, too bad that so many of the performances are lacking. BUT the more I listen to this, the more I like it, and when Joni comes on stage to sing "Help Me" with Chaka it is pure bliss, even though they fumble around for the words. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Shore Leave" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 02:11:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: november 7!!!!!!!!!! JONI CONTENT OH MY GOD!!!!! IT'S JONI MITCHELL'S BIRTHDAY!!!!!!! this merits the long awaited always prayed for almost despaired of RETURN OF THE BIRRRTHDAY FAIRY! dearest joni, if it weren't for you i would never have been a birrrthday fairy. after this moment, pregnant with emotion and fairy tears we go back to our regular broadcast. signed: the gorgeously revamped, patched and overhauled BIRRRTHDAY FAIRY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:19:04 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Court and Sparks Nuriel wrote: > I hear that a band named "The Court and Sparks" are about > to release an album soon (or have already). Anybody knows > who they are and why it's a Joni name they have chosen for > themselves? This intrigued me, so I did some digging and found the following article (the relevant bit copied below): http://www.muse.ie/180800/reviews/revu_wheels.html "Named after a Joni Mitchell album, this San Francisco four-piece are the latest in a long line of alt country outlaws to emerge on the German label." It would be interesting to contact them, and find out more about their choice of a Joni-inspired name. When I find the time, I'll get around to it - unless anyone else wants to (hint, hint)?!? Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:23:43 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: It's Raining Covers! Bob wrote: > I did some more snooping around today and found another > handful of Joni covers, so we've surpassed the 800 mark by > a couple. Haven't snagged 'em all, but we're getting there! > Better start chopping more wood, Hell! :~) Now, look! I'm making these damn things to hold 40 CDs, and that's it! If a third box is required somewhere down the line, that's fine, but this will have to do for now! Hell - wondering what the hell (pun definitely intended) she's let herself in for! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:28:29 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: WFUV etc. Bob wrote: > Extremely interesting question, Bob...only two can be replicated in their > entirety: Blue & Hejira (Thanks to Lorraine Gervais & her cover of Blue Motel > Room) This doesn't surprise me, given the popularity of these two albums - quite often mentioned as people's favourites. They would make a nice little "taster" for Joni for Xmas, wouldn't they?!? Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:42:42 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: November 7th Happy birthday, Joni. Thanks for everything. Boy, does THAT seem inadequate! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 00:47:46 -0700 From: "shane mattison" Subject: birthday present for joni oh happy birthday, joni joni... my present for you is a new photo gallery...and some of these images of you haven't been seen on the web before... so here you are...shane's joni more to come with a little time: http://www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong/cactusjoniphotos.html with love from shane with a new address: cactussong@shaw.ca ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #345 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?