From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #336 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, October 29 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 336 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: October 28 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: October 28 [les@jmdl.com] Happy Birthday!!!! [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Naming the Supremes ["Steve Polifka" ] Three years ago today... ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: Joni's time signatures -- thanks, Howard [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] A technical question for guitarists [Gertus@aol.com] Re: A technical question for guitarists [slarty ] Re: A technical question for guitarists ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: A technical question for guitarists [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Song Polls [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: A technical question for guitarists [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Song Polls ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Song Polls ["Jamie Zubairi" ] all i want ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: all i want [Nuriel Tobias ] Those who saw Joni in Toronto know [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Song Polls [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Three years ago today... ["hell" ] Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 ["hell" ] Joni as a Jeopardy question! [RobSher50@aol.com] RE: A technical question for guitarists ["Scott Hertzog Verizon" Subject: Re: Naming the Supremes And Tammy Terrell- yea yea yea- Sheesh! LOL! Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Naming the Supremes > In a message dated 10/26/01 7:35:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > > << What about Cindy Birdsong? >> > and Sherrie Payne? > > No regrets, > > Coyote Rick > Casa Alegre > Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:41:58 -0500 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Three years ago today... Dear listers, It was three years ago today that I had the wonderful opportunity to be in the presence of Joni Mitchell. My thanks go out to the late Wally Breese, Les Irvin, and Terry Matlan. Funny, because the day was bright and sunny much like it is here now.... Remembering this day has always brought me a sense of calm, even though I was the only one in the group to yell out something unfortunate. The best part of meeting up with Joni was walking out of the restaurant/bar. listening to her tell the story of the mockingbird who would sing when it heard a car climing, climbing, climbing the hill. Would love to hear everyone's best Joni in person moment(s).... Also, happy birthday Julius...sure did miss you in Topsfield... Sue n.p. Ben Folds "Losing Lisa" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:43:51 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's time signatures -- thanks, Howard Thank you, Howard! I've printed up what you wrote regarding the time signatures on TI, TtT, and will be looking at it when I listen to the songs again. -- Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:51:06 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: A technical question for guitarists I've been puzzling about something arising from Karen O'Brien's biography, "Shadows and Light". At least twice Karen mentions the fact that polio left Joni with a deficiency in her left side which meant she was unable to master a "Cotten picking" style of guitar playing. While I can see that a weakness of the right hand could lead to difficulty in this respect I can't see why a problem with the left hand would lead to her "ending up playing mostly the 6th string, banging it into the 5th." Looking at early footage of Joni's playing she seems to use a highly developed finger picking style, although it's true this was later abandoned. The development of her many tunings as the result of left hand weakness I can understand as they make for more comfortable fingering on the whole, although more barring which takes quite a lot of strength. Comments welcome, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:28:38 -0500 From: slarty Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists It's possible that she has trouble using regular bar chords as you have to put quite a bit of pressure on the neck with your left hand. Specially when you are learning. It's also possible that she was taking flak from some people for using her system and used that as an excuse though I favour the first reason. Gertus@aol.com wrote: > I've been puzzling about something arising from Karen O'Brien's biography, > "Shadows and Light". At least twice Karen mentions the fact that polio left > Joni with a deficiency in her left side which meant she was unable to master > a "Cotten picking" style of guitar playing. While I can see that a weakness > of the right hand could lead to difficulty in this respect I can't see why a > problem with the left hand would lead to her "ending up playing mostly the > 6th string, banging it into the 5th." Looking at early footage of Joni's > playing she seems to use a highly developed finger picking style, although > it's true this was later abandoned. The development of her many tunings as > the result of left hand weakness I can understand as they make for more > comfortable fingering on the whole, although more barring which takes quite a > lot of strength. > > Comments welcome, > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:00:05 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists Hi Jacky!! I think the 'Cotten' picking technique required a more articulate left hand on the bass lines, alternating the 6th string and 5th string bass lines to get a more 'folk' sound (like Suzanne Vega's 'Gypsy' for example) where a more articulate left hand would enable the player to get a bassline that is a little more.... flexible. Big Yellow Taxi, employs a little bit of this but I guess by this time Joni is so used to NOT utilising this technique, she just strums the 6th and 5th strings together, but the left hand alternating bass gives it a more boogie-woogie feel. I'm not sure if this is right but it's my take on what she means. Peace Much Joni Jamie Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: A technical question for guitarists > I've been puzzling about something arising from Karen O'Brien's biography, > "Shadows and Light". At least twice Karen mentions the fact that polio left > Joni with a deficiency in her left side which meant she was unable to master > a "Cotten picking" style of guitar playing. While I can see that a weakness > of the right hand could lead to difficulty in this respect I can't see why a > problem with the left hand would lead to her "ending up playing mostly the > 6th string, banging it into the 5th." Looking at early footage of Joni's > playing she seems to use a highly developed finger picking style, although > it's true this was later abandoned. The development of her many tunings as > the result of left hand weakness I can understand as they make for more > comfortable fingering on the whole, although more barring which takes quite a > lot of strength. > > Comments welcome, > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:47:24 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Song Polls I have been to the jmdl site and I have voted for songs and alums. I have noticed NO ONE HAS EVER VOTED FOR LOVE OR MONEY!!!! Does this make it the worst Joni song ever? Or is it because it's stuck in the end of a double live album that not that many people will have had or heard... (then again, only members can vote, so I'm assuming that most of us will have heard it....) I've been thinking (don't do it Jamie, you;re meant to be learning your lines for the audition on Wednesday and thinking isn't your strong point...) has anyone else heard the original (well, the first draft) of All I Want? She premieres it during her televised set on the BBC and she uses some strange phrasing but the theme of the song is 'All I really wanted love to do' like the love affair is over and she is looking back at a relationship that she wanted to be beautiful and different and he just didn't get it. It's on one of the video trees Anyway, if anyone wants to discuss this, please lets! Much Joni Jamie Zoob Peace ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:30:20 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists In a message dated 28/10/01 21:00:46 GMT Standard Time, jamiezoob@freeuk.com writes: > > I think the 'Cotten' picking technique required a more articulate left hand > on the bass lines, alternating the 6th string and 5th string bass lines to > get a more 'folk' sound (like Suzanne Vega's 'Gypsy' for example) where a > more articulate left hand would enable the player to get a bassline that is > a little more.... flexible. Ah right! That does make some sense to me now. I was thinking more in terms of just holding down the chord while alternating 5th and 6th strings. Thanks for that, Jamie, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:46:36 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Song Polls ...And in the same double live album she ends the song with "i want to make you feel" instead of "i want to make you feel free". I love the live version. The guitar sounds like a train on speed. lots of love and life to ya' Nuri - --- "Jamie Zubairi" > wrote: >I have been to the jmdl site and I have voted for songs and alums. I have >noticed > >NO ONE HAS EVER VOTED FOR LOVE OR MONEY!!!! > >Does this make it the worst Joni song ever? Or is it because it's stuck in >the end of a double live album that not that many people will have had or >heard... (then again, only members can vote, so I'm assuming that most of us >will have heard it....) > >I've been thinking (don't do it Jamie, you;re meant to be learning your >lines for the audition on Wednesday and thinking isn't your strong point...) >has anyone else heard the original (well, the first draft) of All I Want? >She premieres it during her televised set on the BBC and she uses some >strange phrasing but the theme of the song is > >'All I really wanted love to do' > >like the love affair is over and she is looking back at a relationship that >she wanted to be beautiful and different and he just didn't get it. > >It's on one of the video trees > > >Anyway, if anyone wants to discuss this, please lets! > >Much Joni > >Jamie Zoob > >Peace _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:49:49 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists In a message dated 28/10/01 19:31:00 GMT Standard Time, slarty@sympatico.ca writes: > > It's possible that she has trouble using regular bar chords as you have to > put > quite a bit of pressure on the neck with your left hand. Specially when you > are > learning. It's also possible that she was taking flak from some people for > using > her system and used that as an excuse though I favour the first reason. > Yep - I see that. What I couldn't see was why that necessitated a different right hand technique but I'm getting there. Many thanks, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:51:24 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Song Polls Jaime, I voted for it once because I felt sorry for it but it did not show up. Must be a technical glitch. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:01:46 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Song Polls lol!!! I'm not sure if I would consider it a great effort in the Joni Mitchell final songlist... I mean, she describes it as a 'portrait of a disappointment - my favourite theme, hahahahaha' which, I dunno, may be indicative of a little boredom on her behalf of the themes that she is used to writing, maybe she wrote it and decided, 'hmmm this is what I usually do' and got bored with it... Anyways Peace and much Joni Jamie Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dolphie Bush To: joni Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Song Polls > Jaime, I voted for it once because I felt sorry for it but it did not show > up. Must be a technical glitch. > > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:11:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: all i want hey nuri, fwiw: it's a dulcimer not a guitar. wallyK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The guitar sounds like a train on speed. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:24:29 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: all i want Be kind to my mistakes. - --- "Wally Kairuz" > wrote: >hey nuri, >fwiw: >it's a dulcimer not a guitar. >wallyK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > The guitar sounds like a train on speed. _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:49:54 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Those who saw Joni in Toronto know Hi dear freinds, Could all our lucky listers who saw Joni in Toronto and heard her new demos please tell us EVRYTHING about them? 1000000 times please and 1000001 times thanks. Lots of love and life to ya' Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:09:16 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Song Polls In a message dated 10/28/01 4:48:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jamiezoob@freeuk.com writes: > I've been thinking (don't do it Jamie, you;re meant to be learning your > lines for the audition on Wednesday and thinking isn't your strong > point...) LOL, I think you think just fine Jamie, I love your posts. > > has anyone else heard the original (well, the first draft) of All I Want? > She premieres it during her televised set on the BBC and she uses some > strange phrasing but the theme of the song is > > 'All I really wanted love to do' > > like the love affair is over and she is looking back at a relationship that > she wanted to be beautiful and different and he just didn't get it. > > It's on one of the video trees > I've heard it Jamie Perhaps she's trying to convey to her lover what her needs are and that he's not meeting them. She's saying, here I've got this great love to give and if you reciprocate, we can both have the pleasure of being loved. But he's maybe not as emotional as she is or maybe he's afraid to let go of himself. Perhaps she's putting the pressure on to meet her expectations. Another take is that maybe the relationship is changing to something more low keyed, less emotional and she regrets that there's this loss of passion in their relationship. Just some of my thoughts..... ~Rose rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:02:41 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Three years ago today... Sue wrote: > The best part of meeting up with Joni > was walking out of the restaurant/bar. > listening to her tell the story of the > mockingbird who would sing when it heard > a car climing, climbing, climbing the hill. > > Would love to hear everyone's best Joni > in person moment(s).... Oh, sure. Rub it in. Just when I was getting over missing Joni in LA, and not getting to the Toronto Tribute, someone has to bring it all back up again......sob....I just can't take it any more! I'm just going to have to move to LA, and get a job waitressing at The Daily Grill. Thereby ensuring I'll have lots of stories to tell - "Hey, today, she only glared at my twice when I got her order wrong and dropped coffee all over her shoe - I'm improving!" Hell - vowing that one day, ONE DAY, I WILL meet Joni! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:05:46 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 Bob wrote: > << let's just leave it at "wow, she's been covered a shitload of times!" >> > > Or maybe "a New Zealand homemade boxload of times"! :~) TWO boxloads, Bob, TWO! I haven't started on the plans yet, but I have given it some thought....these things take time to "evolve", in the manner of all great works of art. Hell - wondering if she's fooling anyone at all ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 01:33:50 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Joni as a Jeopardy question! One thousand kudos to the person who can remember the Jeopardy question asked this past Friday by Alex Trebeck (sp?) I was so excited about hearing her actually in a Jeopardy question, I have completely forgotten what the question was! Agony! At least one of them knew who she was! Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:21:57 -0800 From: "Scott Hertzog Verizon" Subject: RE: A technical question for guitarists I just learned (after 25 years of playing!) that you can take a lot of pressure off of your thumb (and somewhat off your fingers) by 'pressing' the guitar against your body with your strumming-hand elbow, which makes your body a fulcrum, and presses the fretboard into your fingers. This has been a boon as I have recently started playing fretless bass, and my left thumb was gettin' mighty sore! Scott www.ezinfocenter.com/2663130 - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of slarty Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:29 AM To: Gertus@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: A technical question for guitarists It's possible that she has trouble using regular bar chords as you have to put quite a bit of pressure on the neck with your left hand. Specially when you are learning. It's also possible that she was taking flak from some people for using her system and used that as an excuse though I favour the first reason. Gertus@aol.com wrote: > I've been puzzling about something arising from Karen O'Brien's biography, > "Shadows and Light". At least twice Karen mentions the fact that polio left > Joni with a deficiency in her left side which meant she was unable to master > a "Cotten picking" style of guitar playing. While I can see that a weakness > of the right hand could lead to difficulty in this respect I can't see why a > problem with the left hand would lead to her "ending up playing mostly the > 6th string, banging it into the 5th." Looking at early footage of Joni's > playing she seems to use a highly developed finger picking style, although > it's true this was later abandoned. The development of her many tunings as > the result of left hand weakness I can understand as they make for more > comfortable fingering on the whole, although more barring which takes quite a > lot of strength. > > Comments welcome, > Jacky ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #336 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?