From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #335 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, October 28 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 335 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: October 27 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: October 27 [les@jmdl.com] RE: Joni on BRAVO!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!! ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 ["Brenda J. Walker" Subject: RE: Joni on BRAVO!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!! What is the content of the segment, and how long is it? Does Joni perform? Talk? I don't get Bravo, and have to decide whether I have to ask a friend to tape it. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 06:23:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Golden Birthday And the birthday Queen responds.... thank you Sharon for this beauteous imaginative birthday greeting. I have not been on the computer much this week as I am entertaining the King still ;-) ... I just wanted to say that I am so touched and moved by all of the birthday greetings, messages, cards and love received by my precious jmdl family. these remain challenging days with my daughter and the notes you all sent have helped so much to ease the burden. Sometimes I forget that I am not alone. Thank you for reminding me. and for those of you who did send something, I will be responding soon. love, Mahgs <--- thats dutch for Mags ;P npimh: Anne Sandstrom singing Bread and Roses p.s. Brian and I spent the last several evenings lighting candles for Anne and saying prayers and sending thoughts of hope and healing and light. We listened to her CD while eating dinner with the hope that all of the above will help her to know that she is so very loved by us. looking forward to hearing you again soon Anne. xoxox - --- "Sharon L. Buffington" wrote: > Sorry I forgot to send this to my friends from the 'group' :) > > Dear Mags: > > I hear this is your golden birthday...24 years old on the 24th!! > You DO know right...that you can eat anything you want on your golden > birthday and not gain a pound. It is part of the golden rule. So > enjoy > all the liver and onions, lima beans, brussel sprouts, canned peas, > squid, sweetbreads, and knockwurst to your heart's content. I have > made > a fabulous brown sugar bundt cake (heavy as a pound cake) for your > birthday. Hell offered to bring the ice cream. Yael quietly sang a > song > she wrote about not traveling with ice cream over international > borders. Lori is bringing rainbow hats and fortune cookies along > with > some very great news about her mother. And Kerry, well she has a > thing > for Miss Muffet and her tuffet so she is bringing cheese curds. > Susan, > also known as "The Gutz" has prepared a video for you of her riding > her > Moto Guzzi while singing "Black Crow". > > Happy Birthday Mags. > > Peace.......Sharon ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:41:25 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 On 26 Oct 2001, at 8:52, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > And while I can vouch for the fact that Joni's been covered a lot, I thank my > lucky stars that I'm not commanding a Dylan covers project! While Joni's got one > "franchise" song (BSN) and maybe 2 others (Woodstock & BYT), Dylan's got about > 20 that fall in that BSN category! What I don't know, and what would be an > interesting thing to research, is what percentage of Joni's songs vs. Dylan's > songs have been covered. Obviously, The Beatles have been covered more as well, > but the reference was to a SINGLE songwriter. I would guess that Paul Simon has > probably been covered as much as Joni. Just a guess. I have racked my brain trying to think of a single or even a collection of resources which would yield the answer to this question without a very time intensive effort. Most of the recording databases are categorized by artist, album and song with some metadata relative to the release but not songwriter. The performing rights databases are very weak in terms of the amount of information made available. And the publishers themselves are less concerned with the number of covers and more concerned with tracking the revenue generated by the most financially successful covers. I'm stumped. Brenda n.p.: Cowboy Junkies - "Sweet Jane" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:55:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 << I have racked my brain trying to think of a single or even a collection of resources which would yield the answer to this question without a very time intensive effort. >> Believe me, Brenda, there's NOT a good public database for this kind of information. It takes hours & hours & hours of research to track it down, and it's never complete! We can take pride in the fact that we JMDLer's have one of the best covers (and articles) databases on the web for an artist of Joni's magnitude. Bob NP: Jay Farrar, "Damn Shame" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:58:23 +0100 From: Howard Subject: Re: Turbulent Indigo time signature >Mark forwarded this question for his friend Melanie: > >>Has the joni list ever talked >>about the time signature(s) in the song Turbulent Indigo? What the >>heck is it? It shifts, or I'm imagining things. It seems like it floats >>between 4/4, sometimes 2/4, sometimes 3/4.... is it 4/4 with a 5/4 measure or two >>thrown in there every now and then to throw off our expectations? > >Walt wrote: > >I'm glad it's not just me who gets cunfused by some of her time signatures. >I finally decided in the case of this one (TI) that it was generally 3/4 with >an occasionally dropped beat (say down from 3/4 to 2/4), but only the >Jon'ster would know, I suppose. > It's an interesting question this one! Joni refers to the rhythm on TI and other similar songs (Cherokee Louise, Crazy Cries of Love) as her shuffle. Melanie was right - there seems to be a "3 feel" going on as well as a "4 feel". With these songs you can count a slow, steady count of 4 throughout the song *or* you can count in faster groups of three: *1* 2 3 *2* 2 3 *3* 2 3 *4* 2 3 (where the asterisks mark the slower count of four). On Crazy Cries of Love, listen to the rhythm of the words on the chorus where Joni sings "paper thin" (no paper thin walls). If you repeat this phrase over and over, you have the same groups of three as above: *pa*-per thin *pa*-per thin *pa*-per thin *pa*-per thin This is the basic groove for TI, Crazy Cries, Cherokee Louise and several others. Because you've got four groups of three beats, it's usually written down as a 12/8 time signature - meaning four beats, each made of of 3 eighth notes. It's the same 12/8 throughout, though Joni accents different beats to make it more varied. >The two that still stump *me* are "Stay in Touch" and "Love Puts On a New >Face" on TtT. Anyone have those figured out? > These have some strong off-beat rhythms on the guitar, and because there's no drum track, it seems as if the beat is being pushed and pulled all over the place! Stay In Touch is actually in 4/4 throughout, but it sounds more complicated than this just because of the strong off-beat strums on the guitar. Love Puts On A New face is also in 4/4 except for one bar of 2/4 in the introduction, but again, Joni's very rhythmic guitar playing makes it feel like the beats are coming in unusual places. Joni's always had a very strong sense of rhythm on the guitar, and I think this comes through more strongly on these tracks because they are quite sparse - no drums or percussion, just guitar, vocals, a bit of keyboard and not much else. I remember Joni quoted Wayne Shorter after he heard these tracks, and he said that people would never know "where one was" - i.e where the start of each bar was, and it's true that the simple 4/4 time that's used on many tracks is kind of "disguised". Even the person who transcribed the music for "Face Lift" for the TTT songbook was thrown off the scent, and wrote bars of 4/4, 5/4 and 3/4 - it's actually 4/4 all the way, it just doesn't sound like it! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:17:56 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Turbulent Indigo time signature Howard, I truly admire you folks who can talk in these terms. Complete gobbledy gook to me. Never could understand it. I am simply a dolt who knows that he likes what he hears. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:02:36 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Turbulent Indigo time signature Thank you for the lesson. Do you teach music? Obviously your avocation too. I will print this out and study. Bree.... who can be off-beat >It's an interesting question this one! Joni refers to the rhythm on TI >and other similar songs (Cherokee Louise, Crazy Cries of Love) as her >shuffle. Melanie was right - there seems to be a "3 feel" going on as >well as a "4 feel". > >With these songs you can count a slow, steady count of 4 throughout the >song *or* you can count in faster groups of three: > >*1* 2 3 *2* 2 3 *3* 2 3 *4* 2 3 (where the asterisks mark the slower >count of four). > >On Crazy Cries of Love, listen to the rhythm of the words on the chorus >where Joni sings "paper thin" (no paper thin walls). If you repeat this >phrase over and over, you have the same groups of three as above: > >*pa*-per thin *pa*-per thin *pa*-per thin *pa*-per thin > >This is the basic groove for TI, Crazy Cries, Cherokee Louise and >several others. Because you've got four groups of three beats, it's >usually written down as a 12/8 time signature - meaning four beats, each >made of of 3 eighth notes. It's the same 12/8 throughout, though >Joni accents different beats to make it more varied. > > >The two that still stump *me* are "Stay in Touch" and "Love Puts On a New > >Face" on TtT. Anyone have those figured out? > > > >These have some strong off-beat rhythms on the guitar, and because >there's no drum track, it seems as if the beat is being pushed and >pulled all over the place! > >Stay In Touch is actually in 4/4 throughout, but it sounds more >complicated than this just because of the strong off-beat strums >on the guitar. > >Love Puts On A New face is also in 4/4 except for one bar of 2/4 >in the introduction, but again, Joni's very rhythmic guitar playing >makes it feel like the beats are coming in unusual places. > >Joni's always had a very strong sense of rhythm on the guitar, and I >think this comes through more strongly on these tracks because they >are quite sparse - no drums or percussion, just guitar, vocals, a >bit of keyboard and not much else. > >I remember Joni quoted Wayne Shorter after he heard these tracks, and he >said that people would never know "where one was" - i.e where the start >of each bar was, and it's true that the simple 4/4 time that's used on >many tracks is kind of "disguised". Even the person who transcribed the >music for "Face Lift" for the TTT songbook was thrown off the scent, and >wrote bars of 4/4, 5/4 and 3/4 - it's actually 4/4 all the way, it just >doesn't sound like it! > >Howard _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:15:02 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 On 27 Oct 2001, at 14:55, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Believe me, Brenda, there's NOT a good public database for this kind of > information. It takes hours & hours & hours of research to track it down, and > it's never complete! We can take pride in the fact that we JMDLer's have one of > the best covers (and articles) databases on the web for an artist of Joni's > magnitude. > I must agree completely. The only way to get this info quickly would be to gain access to the mechanical licensing/royalty databases of the administrators for each writer's publishing company or companies both past and present. Uuugh! B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:46:55 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: >I have racked my brain trying to think of a single or even a collection >of resources which would yield the answer to this question without a very >time intensive effort. Please don't rack your brain too much, it hurts. There's no way to determine "most covered sole composer," more importantly, it doesn't matter. Like I said, Joni doesn't need to have her validity bolstered in a spurious way ("most covered single composer besides Mozart") ... let's just leave it at "wow, she's been covered a shitload of times!" Factoring in composers like Mozart (as in the original comparison), there's no way to tell because like all those other long dead composers, his music is in the public domain and therefore not necessarily tracked by performing rights organizations or other groups with similar databases. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:06:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Reworked Joni Tribute Part 2 << let's just leave it at "wow, she's been covered a shitload of times!" >> Or maybe "a New Zealand homemade boxload of times"! :~) Bob NP: Old 97's ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:11:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: I heard Joni music in a play! Last night me & the Mrs. went to see a play by Morris Panych, who is a playwright from Vancouver. I'm sure you know of him, Stephen? Anyway, this play wasn't very good...it was called "Vigil", but there were about 30 "blackouts" to show the passing of time, change some set pieces, etc. They played music from female vocalists during these 30-60 second changes. They played 5 excerpts from the new Suzanne Vega, all of which I liked, some old Dusty Springfield tunes, 5 Tori Amos songs (all from 'Under The Pink' - imagine that!) and a very pleasantly surprising "Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" from Joni. Very cool - the high part of the evening for me! Bob NP: Equations ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:51:02 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: "Message to love-the isle of wight festival" I just now saw this movie on video. There was so much talent at that festival! Joan Baez,Leonard Cohen,Miles Davis,Donovan,The Doors,ELP,Jimi Hendrix,Jethro Tull,Kris Kristofferson,Joni Mitchell (She was excellent!),The Moody Blues, John Sebastion(I went to school with his son),The Who. I like them all.the only thing I don't understand is why they showed Donovan so briefly. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 20:22:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: shadows and light ... attention all canadians Brian and I just started to look at our very own copy of the new Shadows and Light book by Karen O'Brien !!!! now available in Canada, as of last week according to the sales person who assisted us this afternoon. one of the first things we checked were the credits... hugs and kudos to our brother Bobs, the king of kovers. :))))) off to read... love, MagsnBrei ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #335 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?