From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #295 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, September 22 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 295 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: September 21 [les@jmdl.com] Sara K. ["Laurent Olszer" ] Shadows and Light biography ["Paul Castle" ] excerpt: FDR first inaugural speech 1933 ["shane mattison" ] Re: New Joni Music [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Shadows and Light biography [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: excerpt: FDR first inaugural speech 1933 ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: "Refuge of the Roads" question, 100% JC [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Attention Dallas area members ... [Don Rowe ] HAPPY BIRTHDAYS TO THE LADIES ["Garret" ] Dream Festival ["William Waddell" ] Dream Festival ["Dolphie Bush" ] Justice, not Terror [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Dream Festival ["Blair Fraipont" ] apology [Vince Lavieri ] re: 'Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light' by Karen O'Brien ["jlamadoo, home ] Re: Justice, not Terror [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Joni news to date ["jlamadoo, home account" ] Re: Justice, not Terror ["Dolphie Bush" ] 1 year since my White House Sleepover! [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Dream Festival [Bruyere ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 03:02:43 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: September 21 On September 21 these articles were published: 1966: "Folksongs" - Variety (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/660921v.cfm 1974: "By the time we got through Neasden..." - Sounds (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/740921s.cfm 1998: "Joni at The Old Town School of Folk Music" - Chicago Tribune (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980921ct.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 633 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:45:13 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Sara K. > Subject: Re: Sara K, Tuck & Patti of interest to Joni fans > > < also PATTI (Tuck & Patti) .>> > > Help me out, Laurent...Sara K? > > I know Sarah Vaughan, Sara McLachlan, and Sara Lee (nobody doesn't like Sara Lee, especially when she's playing bass for Ani D! ;~D) > > As for Patti Cathcart, she's tremendous, and like you say always can be counted on for great music. Tuck Andress is an amazing guitarist! > > Their version of Woodstock is one of my favorites; they really put their own stamp on it. > > Bob > No it's indeed Sara K. She's on Chesky Records in NYC and has about 9 CDs out + 1 DVD (No Cover, same material as the CD with the same title). Just like Joni, each album has a different flavor. (sometimes she uses an accordeonist, or a harmonicist) I wouldn't classify her in jazz, except for the acoustic bass that is used. One cover she made is Oh Well (Peter Green's), to give you an idea. She's as close to Joni as I ever found (and I've looked hard, believe me). She's not trying to be like Joni either, unlike many. When one listens to Sara K., the first question that comes to mind (just like it used to be with Joni for years) is: why isn't she more successful and well-known? PS: Tuck & Patti are playing in Paris on 10/6. I'll fill up the club with my friends. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:30:34 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Shadows and Light biography Last night I turned page 303, totally unaware that this was the last page (apart from the Appendices etc) of Karen O'Brien's engrossing new biography - with the sense of loss more usually associated with the end of a really great novel. For those about to read, prepare yourself for some really late nights, train journeys that flash by, and the overwhelming urge to share stories with the list with each turning page. For now I shall resist as I really don't want to spoil the feast. However, I'm sure no one will mind me quoting from the Acknowlegements :- >>>the Joni Mitchell Discussion List (www.jmdl.com) especially Les Irvin, Jim L'Hommedieu, Joe Farrell, Dave Foer, Mauro Rossi and Simon; the official Joni Mitchell website, jonimitchell.com, Jim Johansen and the late Wally Breese; >>> and in the Covers section of the Discography - "with thanks to Bob Muller." PaulC PS OK OK, I couldn't resist just one - something I could relate to from my own childhood "The family settled into their home at 214 Railway Avenue East; Bill put up a swing in the garden, but one of Joan's favourite pastimes required little more than a chair at the large window in the living-room, at the front of the house. The view across the road to the railway line was to give Joan a literal window on the world, a yearning for the wider universe beyond, symbolised by the rattle and hum of the daily steam train. The young child would perch at the window each day and wave to the driver as the train passed slowly. Years later, long after the family had left Maidstone, her parents met a man who once worked in the area for Canadian railways. When he found out where they'd lived, he recalled his only memory of the unaventful trip along the line through Maidstone - an exuberant tow- haired little girl who'd be waiting each day to exchange a wave." From 'Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light' by Karen O'Brien Published by Virgin Books Ltd - 4th October 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 03:48:10 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: excerpt: FDR first inaugural speech 1933 This is pre-eminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So first of all let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear. . .is fear itself. . . nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days. In such a spirit on my part and on yours we face our common difficulties. Only a foolish optimist can deny the dark realities of the moment.They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers.They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money, it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort.These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow-men.Recognition of the falsity of material wealth as the standard of success goes hand in hand with the abandonment of the false belief that public office and high political position are to be values only by the standards of pride of place and personal profit, and there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing.Small wonder that confidence languishes, for it thrives only on honesty, on honor, on the sacredness of obligations, on faithful protection, on unselfish performance. Without them it cannot live. Restoration calls, however, not for changes in ethics alone. This nation asks for action, and action now.There are many ways in which it can be helped, but it can never be helped merely by talking about it. We must act, and act quickly. The basic thought that guides these specific means of national recovery is not narrowly nationalistic.It is the insistence, as a first consideration, upon the interdependence of the various elements in and parts of the United States. . . a recognition of the old and permanently important manifestation of the American spirit of the pioneer.It is the way to recovery. It is the immediate way. It is the strongest assurance that the recovery will endure. In the field of world policy I would dedicate this nation to the policy of the good neighbor. . .the neighbor who resolutely respects himself and, because he does so, respects the rights of others. . .the neighbor who respects his obligations and respects the sanctity of his agreements in and with a world of neighbors. If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize, as we have never realized before, our interdependence on each other: that we cannot merely take, but we must give as well, that if we are to go forward we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline, no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. In this dedication of a nation we humbly ask the blessing of God. May He protect each and every one of us! May He guide me in the days to come! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:48:21 +0100 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: New Joni Music Does anyone know when Joni is to release any new music or when the long awaited tribute album is going to be put on sale please? I have the cash (just) and I'm ready to use it :) Paul Headon Wales - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.277 / Virus Database: 146 - Release Date: 05/09/2001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:13:10 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New Joni Music Nobody knows when those records are coming out, Paul! :~( BUT... Bobstradamus predicts Fall 2002 will see the release of Joni's 2-CD set, reworking her previous material. Bobstradamus also foresees that the "Have Yourself a Dreary Little Christmas" project will never materialize. But wait, there's more in the tea leaves...Bobstradamus sees that the sleeping fools at Reprise (the same ones who rejected Wilco's adventurous new one, only to have 30 labels enter a bidding war for it) will capitalize on Joni's triumphant appearance in Toronto in October, coupled with the new Bio, and release the Official Tribute in late November. The perfect stocking stuffer! But keep in mind, "unofficial" tributes come out on a monthly basis, and the 'addicts' are growing by the month! :~) Bob NP: New Macy Gray, great soul! Macy beats the sophomore slump! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:16:30 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Shadows and Light biography << "with thanks to Bob Muller." >> Oh Paul, you are quite the tease...reading the new book before I can get it! Oh well, turnabout is fair play, I guess! ;~) Very cool to get that mention too...I pass the credit along to Les, who gave me the vehicle to store and display the data, and to all my JMDL bro's and sis's whose enthusiasm for this project has kept me searching, bidding, buying, burning, and lovin' every moment! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:27:51 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! In a message dated Thu, 20 Sep 2001 9:12:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: > It isn't a debate about anything as far as I'm concerned, Kakki. I expressed > ignorance at what Brian's post was getting at Hello, as a new JMDL-er, I agree with Azeem in terms of not knowing what is being referred to. If I searched the archives, I wouldn't have a clue as to what I'm looking for. Could someone help me out, maybe by emailing me off-list? I'd appreciate it. confused, Mary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:32:48 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: excerpt: FDR first inaugural speech 1933 I think it is great that someone is quoting FDR. You rock Shane. Blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:37:19 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: an addendum Hi- I just read Shane's email soon after Brenda's that I responded to, and I wanted to add... I don't think there is anything wrong with examining U.S. policy and behavior. That doesn't imply that I think the U.S. "deserved" this tragedy. Of course I don't think that! It was horrible, I was horrified and stunned and affected deeply and I haven't even lost anyone personally. In fact, I struggle with the fact that I can feel even marginally relieved that none of my friends were in the WTC or the Pentagon when so many lives have been lost. But while this was a terrible occurrence, these attacks, I think that we have a teachable moment. Wouldn't it be worse to let this time pass and lose an opportunity for critical reflection? Most American citizens, as Brenda pointed out, are quite ignorant about foreign issues, US foreign policy, other parts of the world in general. Isn't this a good opportunity to wake people to the rest of the world, and a chance to consider our place in it? Mourning follows tragedy, and rightfully so. Learning can also follow. - -Yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:39:49 EDT From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: "Refuge of the Roads" question, 100% JC Lama wrote: >>Ah, yes, the 60 minute, out-of-print "Refuge Of The Roads" video. I don't know if it was ever available on Laser Disk but the VHS Hi-Fi is out-of-print.<< There are 3 or 4 copies available on ebay at the moment...I saw them yesterday. Reuben np: Everything But The Girl "Worldwide" "I know we'd miss the football and the dancing...and you'd worry that the people hered' be talking, but that's nothing." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:15:23 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! >From: Nuriel Tobias >Reply-To: Nuriel Tobias >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Why meeeeeeeee? WHY NOT ME!!! >Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:52:42 -0700 (PDT) > >Why do i have to read this sick email on the joni mitchell list?! > Surely my post was not intellectually over your head because it was very plain speak. I have to conclude that for some people truth just really hurts too much. Reality check bites some people in the ass a little harder than others! "I've lost all taste for life I'm all complaints Tell me why do you starve the faithful? Why do you crucify the saints? And you let the wicked prosper You let their children frisk like deer, And my loves are dead or dying,or they don't come near Already on a bed of sighs and screams, And still you torture me with visions You give me terrifying dreams! Better I was carried from the womb straight to the grave I see the diggers waiting,they're leaning on their spades And where is hope while you're wondering what went wrong? What is the reason for your heavy hand? Was it the sins of my youth? What have I done to you? Joni Mitchell--from The Sire of Sorrow(Job's Sad Song) (taken somewhat out of context, but you get her point) (A lister reminded me of the "bombers turning into butterflies"-Joni's utopia) Perhaps on all future Joni CD"S they should stamp them saying: TO be played by GROWN-UPS ONLY. (not for the faint of heart) Bree +_______________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >_____________________________________________________________ >Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! >Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:15:50 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: [none] happy birthday marion and heather... ...a poem by donald hall, born sept.20 entitled "Ox Cart Man": http://www.izaak.unh.edu/specoll/exhibits/ocmny.htm shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Attention Dallas area members ... Anyone up for a MiniFest in Dallas? A small "refuge of the road"? I ask since I'll be in town next weekend, from Sept. 27-30 for my 20th High School reunion. But that doesn't mean there won't be some time for a get together if anyone's available and/or interested. Drop me a line ... look forward to hearing from, and hopefully, meeting you in person! Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:25:02 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: HAPPY BIRTHDAYS TO THE LADIES i want to add my voice to this chorus too:-) Love and Luck Marian and Heather. GARRET NP- Bjork, Big Time Sensuality (MTV Unplugged) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:22:51 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Dream Festival Copied from the BBC's website today - an interview with Kiki Dee _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:33:57 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Dream Festival Hey William. A little escapism. Perfect. Thanks. My dream festival would start with rickie lee Jones, Melissa Manchester, joni, Hall and Oates, Luther Vandross, Gino Vannelli, rick Astley, and a finale by Janis. Now that would be heaven for me. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 17:46:38 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Justice, not Terror Although our leaders are under tremendous pressure to act in the aftermath of the terrible events of Sept. 11th, it's important to let them know that we support justice, not escalating violence, which would only play into the terrorists' hands. I hope you'll join me in signing an online statement of support for "Justice, not Terror" at: http://www.moveon.org/justice/ Thank you. Your participation could really make a difference -- it's vital that we all speak up now, before it's too late. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 17:55:51 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Dream Festival Hey great post!!! This really is irrational and extremely drealike, but what the hell? :) My dream Festival would include.. (this may be a two day festival..hahaha) First Day.. Fela Kuti (circ 1971), Miles Davis (circa 1969-1973), Charles Mingus (circa 1960) Joni, Can, John Coltrane Quartet Second Day Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band, Leonard Cohen, R.E.M. (Circa 1983-85), Nina Simone, The Cure, Bob Dylan,(circa 1975-76) and finally top it all off with Frank Zappa (circa 1977-1979 with the Rockin' Teenage Combo)... OH would that be a sweet festival............ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 18:23:46 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: apology I forgot the NJC tag on a post, sorry... (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:29:28 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: re: 'Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light' by Karen O'Brien Kakki, This is the story that I was trying to remember when I was researching my essay on THOSL. I couldn't remember who's story it was. It was Mrs. Anderson's. Now I need to add a paragraph to my project. Does anyone remember where I can find the _full text_ of Myrtle Anderson's cocktail party story about meeting the engineer, years later? I love that story 'cause it seems as though the engineer was fated to inspire our little Joan Anderson to grow to be strong and outgoing, in spite of everything. To aspire to travel and do Good Work. BTW, when Karen offered to put me in the Acknowledgments for giving her some coffeehouse dubs, I told her that I'm just a branch and that the one who deserved the honor was Simon, our community's Archivist. :) Thanks again, Simon. You are the Best! - -- From: "Paul Castle" PS OK OK, I couldn't resist just one - something I could relate to from my own childhood "The family settled into their home at 214 Railway Avenue East; Bill put up a swing in the garden, but one of Joan's favourite pastimes required little more than a chair at the large window in the living-room, at the front of the house. The view across the road to the railway line was to give Joan a literal window on the world, a yearning for the wider universe beyond, symbolised by the rattle and hum of the daily steam train. The young child would perch at the window each day and wave to the driver as the train passed slowly. Years later, long after the family had left Maidstone, her parents met a man who once worked in the area for Canadian railways. When he found out where they'd lived, he recalled his only memory of the unaventful trip along the line through Maidstone - an exuberant tow- haired little girl who'd be waiting each day to exchange a wave." From 'Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light' by Karen O'Brien Published by Virgin Books Ltd - 4th October 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:44:08 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror In a message dated 9/21/01 9:50:53 PM !!!First Boot!!!, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > Although our leaders are under tremendous pressure to act in the > aftermath of the terrible events of Sept. 11th, it's important to > let them know that we support justice, not escalating violence, > which would only play into the terrorists' hands. > > I hope you'll join me in signing an online statement of support > for "Justice, not Terror" at: Before you go off signing stuff like that, maybe you ought to define your terms here. Where would you draw the line between justice and vengeance? Personally, I think there is a line to be drawn but I couldn't say where I'd define it. And I do believe that governments that harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves, especially considering the terrorists who committed these atrocities cannot be brought to justice here on earth. Those governments that harbor, support and help to train such terorrists should be taken out by whatever means necessary, though hopefully that will be short of using nuclear weapons. Though I did not vote for Dubya, I was very impressed by his speech last night and believe his restrained approach so far has been the right course. Therefore, I suggest that the petition the reverend is advocating borders on preposterous and would not add my name to such a document. Furthermore, I would discourage anyone else from doing so, especially until we see a little more from our government about the direction they will be taking to obtain "justice," however you might define it. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:45:25 -0400 From: "jlamadoo, home account" Subject: Joni news to date Last week I found out the good news that she's going to be recording IN LONDON in November for a retrospective of 24 songs with an orchestra. Maybe a pilgrimage on your part is called for! In America last year, she debuted a version of "The Judgement Of the Moon And Stars (Ludwig's Tune)" that I dearly love. IMO, its reminiscent of Aaron Copland. The new version was also orchestated by Vince Mendoza, who won a Grammy in America for his work on Joni's "Both Sides Now" project. Just after BSN was released, we heard that several of his new orchestrations were already in the can for the next project. She is now tentatively and alarmingly calling the upcoming 2 CD set "Swan Song". News as it happens....... Lama ps, Aren't you the guy who gave us the "My Top 12" show to tree? Many thanks from all of us who loved to hear her talk about her influences. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:05:42 -0500 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror ditto paul. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Justice, not Terror > In a message dated 9/21/01 9:50:53 PM !!!First Boot!!!, revrvl@chartermi.net > writes: > > > > Although our leaders are under tremendous pressure to act in the > > aftermath of the terrible events of Sept. 11th, it's important to > > let them know that we support justice, not escalating violence, > > which would only play into the terrorists' hands. > > > > I hope you'll join me in signing an online statement of support > > for "Justice, not Terror" at: > > Before you go off signing stuff like that, maybe you ought to define your > terms here. > Where would you draw the line between justice and vengeance? > Personally, I think there is a line to be drawn but I couldn't say where I'd > define it. And I do believe that governments that harbor terrorists are as > guilty as the terrorists themselves, especially considering the terrorists > who committed these atrocities cannot be brought to justice here on earth. > Those governments that harbor, support and help to train such terorrists > should be taken out by whatever means necessary, though hopefully that will > be short of using nuclear weapons. > Though I did not vote for Dubya, I was very impressed by his speech last > night and believe his restrained approach so far has been the right course. > Therefore, I suggest that the petition the reverend is advocating borders on > preposterous and would not add my name to such a document. Furthermore, I > would discourage anyone else from doing so, especially until we see a little > more from our government about the direction they will be taking to obtain > "justice," however you might define it. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:12:46 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: 1 year since my White House Sleepover! It's been a full year since I slept over at the White House. That was such an exciting event! the only sad news is that Bill and Hillary Clinton won't be able to attend the party my mom's having next week...oh well... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:33:19 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Dream Festival Gino Vannelli ! I have not heard his name in ages! I have an LP of his from back in the early 70's titled Crazy Life. I know he had a big hit on the radio in the 80's, I think. What ever happen to him? He did have a great voice. Heather At 04:33 PM 9/21/01 -0500, Dolphie Bush wrote: >Hey William. A little escapism. Perfect. Thanks. > >My dream festival would start with rickie lee Jones, Melissa Manchester, joni, >Hall and Oates, Luther Vandross, Gino Vannelli, rick Astley, and a finale by >Janis. Now that would be heaven for me. > Mack ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #295 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?