From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #289 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, September 17 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 289 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #411 [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Today in Joni History: September 16 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: September 16 [les@jmdl.com] Moulin Rouge... oops! [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 [PMcfad@aol.com] we're a cog in something turning ["marianne marianne" ] Here is Something We CAn DO!!! ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Take a look at my online photos! [AzeemAK@aol.com] [none] ["marianne marianne" ] Subject: Clarification: Joni's next project ["kerry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:49:09 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #411 > And as to the much discussed anachronistic use of rock songs, for me it > failed at virtually level. The songs were repeated ad nauseam (I could put > up with Elton John's Your Song once, but three times?? And I was less than > halfway through the film!), and the set pieces would have Busby Berkley > spinning in his grave. Michael J Fox doing Johnny B Goode in Back to the > Future said it so much better. > I did like the version of "Roxanne" which made it sound more guttural and sexy. Coupled with the tango... well I did think it made it even sexier. I guess I liked the movie because it was Australian - I loved seeing the local celebrities, the accents etc. I didn't mind the frenetic pace, the mish mash of styles, music etc. I wasn't too keen on Nicole but then she did look the part. I really didn't mind it. I guess it is too action packed, a little over-the-top, too much detail, an assault on the senses and a little incoherent. But then, I forgive it its flaws! I don't think I've seen anything recently that has made me go Oooo... the cinema is usually filled with trite but I liked Moulin Rouge because it was fun. I miss the musical. Vanessa who endured "Dude! Where's My Car?" - now that is shite. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 03:53:07 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: September 16 On September 16 in Joni Mitchell History: 1987: Joni attends a Prince concert - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 03:53:07 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: September 16 On September 16 this article was published: 1997: "Song takes writer to Joni Mitchell's old Detroit apartment " - Detroit News (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/970916dn.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 633 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:22:50 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Moulin Rouge... oops! Please excuse the the no NJC tag... it's been so long! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:50:44 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 philip, 1. i'm not your dear. 2. it is self centered to view this list from the first person singular. i sent you nothing. my thoughts were shared in support of those who have been bullied by marcel. i don't know you and i certainly did not send YOU anything. it is very possible philip, that your expericence alone is not the only experience. learn to look away. learn to let others share their experiences. 3. you did send me something...you copied me directly. please do not ever send me anything direct again. pat > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > 1. marcel is a cyber rapist. > > Dear Pat, > > Please do not send me any more of this ugly nonsense. > > thanks, > Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:04:06 -0400 From: "marianne marianne" Subject: we're a cog in something turning "trying to get my soul free.. . . ." just reading the list. . and of course, thinking of you all. Listening to Woodstock on Shadows and Light. . "get back to the land and try to get my soul free." "Can I walk beside you?" Can I walk beside you? We are stardust, we are golden. . . . We've got to take a stand. We've got to take a stand. When ever, where ever. "and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. . . to some semblance of a garden. . . " Listen to Woodstock on Shadows and Light. . . feel it. . . listen to it again. We've got to take a stand. . . "billion year old carbon. . . " Live and breathe what you believe. ". . feel like I'm a cog in something turning. . . round." It all comes down to you. strong together can I walk beside you? Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:16:41 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #288 Friday night The Albany Fire Department fought a two-alarm fire in Arbor Hill. My brother Danny was there. When the firefighters were done, the crowd that gathered gave them a round of applause. My brother said that in the 30 years he's been with the Department - that's never happened. People have always appreciated firefighters -- especially when fire hits their homes. I guess we are all feeling what happened in NYC hit our home. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:23:09 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonifest, 2001 and 1/2 (NC) In a message dated 9/15/01 4:02:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > So true Mr. Muller! I just said goodbye to Coyote Rick Hobbs from LA, who spent three days with us. After being depressed all week, it was great to see Rick again. He's wonderful at keeping everyone's spirit up. It wasn't much of a Joni-fest (only 3 JMDLers), but I assure you...........Joni music was played! Last night we had dinner with a group of my old friends. Of course they all loved Rick, and when asked how we knew each other, Rick and I looked at each other and replied "Joni Mitchell and the Internet". Just one more way Joni has enhanced my life. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:24:37 +0100 From: "joe farrell" Subject: auden It was good to read the Auden poem "September 1,1939" on the list, thanks to Yael Harlap for posting it. "We must love one and other or die" says it all really. To all in the US who have lost loved ones our love and sympathy goes out to you all. You are not alone .You are in our hearts and minds at this time. Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:19:05 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Here is Something We CAn DO!!! Everyone, I know it is hard for people especially those who live far away to contribute to the rescue workers or just to give their thanks for what is being done. Here is a small way, we can each contribute! Near Lincoln Center is Fire Station 35 and so far they have lost about a dozen men. There is a table outside covered with flowers and letters. The production staff at Juilliard has been asking anyone from anywhere in the world to send their gratittude to the work that these people are doing. So, if you live in Macon, Georgia for example, send a postcard from your town, or a letter just simply saying, "THANKS". I think since this list is filled with such beautiful people, who all care for eachother and have been coping together despite all arguments, we can give back something to these people. The addresss is, Ladder Company 35 NYC Fire Departement 131 Amsterdam Avenue NY, NY 10023 Thank you all again, I am sorry this doens have a NJC tag, but i wanted to include everyone. MUch love Blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:19:17 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Candles For World Trade Center Victims & Terrorism Hi All, I just received this from a friend and I thought I'd pass it along. If you haven't already, please light a candle for the victims and against terrorism at the WTC site. http://www.worldtradecenter.com/ Love, Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:45:01 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: No JC Canada's Trib to USA Long but worth it i have many relatives who work for the canadian gov't.. many may think of canada as a gentle giant. i read in a post that they have the problem with terrorist hiding out there also. i have the utmost confidence that our calm neighbors to the north will snuff out terrorist too. canada is a beautiful country and i am very proud of my canadian heritage. heather At 09:24 PM 9/13/01 -0400, Monafitz@aol.com wrote: >Subject: FW: TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES - editorial from a Canadian >news paper > > > > >> America: The Good Neighbor. > > >> > > >> Widespread but only partial news coverage was given > > >> recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from > > >> Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television > > >> commentator. What follows is the full text of his > > >> trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: > > >> > > >> > > >> "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for > > >> the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least > > >> appreciated people on all the earth. > > >> > > >> Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and > > >> Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the > > >> Americans who poured in billions of dollars and > > >> forgave other billions in debts. None of these > > >> countries is today paying even the interest on its > > >> remaining debts to the United States. > > >> > > >> When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, > > >> it was the Americans who propped it up, and their > > >> reward was to be insulted and swindled on the > > >> streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. > > >> > > >> When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the > > >> United States that hurries in to help. This spring, > > >> 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. > > >> Nobody helped. > > >> > > >> The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped > > >> billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now > > >> newspapers in those countries are writing about the > > >> decadent, warmongering Americans. > > >> > > >> I'd like to see just one of those countries that > > >> is gloating over the erosion of the United States > > >> dollar build its own airplane. Does any other > > >> country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo > > >> Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? > > >> If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the > > >> International lines except Russia fly American > > >> Planes? > > >> > > >> Why does no other land on earth even consider > > >> putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese > > >> technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about > > >> German technocracy, and you get automobiles. > > >> You talk about American technocracy, and you find > > >> men on the moon - not once, but several times - > > >> and safely home again. > > >> > > >> You talk about scandals, and the Americans put > > >> theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at . > > >> Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and > > >> hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, > > >> unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting > > >> American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. > > >> > > >> When the railways of France, Germany and India > > >> were breaking down through age, it was the Americans > > >> who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and > > >> the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them > > >> an old caboose. Both are still broke. > > >> > > >> I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced > > >> to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name > > >> me even one time when someone else raced to the > > >> Americans in trouble? I don't think there was > > >> outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. > > >> > > >> Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one > > >> Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get > > >> kicked around. They will come out of this thing with > > >> their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled > > >> to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating > > >> over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not > > >> one of those. > > >> > > >> > > >> Stand proud, America! > > >> > > > >> > > >> This is one of the best editorials that I have ever > > >> read regarding the United States. It is nice that > > >> one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of > > >> the world share his insight. We are always blamed for > > >> everything, and never even get a thank you for the > > >> things we do. > > >> > > >> I hope each of you send this to as many people as you can and >emphasize that they > > >> should send it to as many of their friends until this letter is sent >to every person on the web. > >Mona A. Fitzgerald >monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:58:59 +0100 From: Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 Firstly I want to apologise to everyone especially Les Irwin, that I have contributed to prolonging the unpleasantness, especially at this time in our world. I hope you can forgive me but I want to respond to Pat. Pat, Sometimes we need to be careful in our choice of words. To include the word "rapist" in a description of a man seems to me to be unnecessarily hurtful. (Note: I am talking about the meaning of that word as it is universally understood and all the violent and sexual overtones implied therein). Your repetition of it when the man in question had already been expelled from the list seemed very mean spirited indeed. Rape is an emotive word and has only one common meaning in our society Placing the word "cyber" in front lessens it only marginally. It's use in this context devalues it's true meaning and the terror of the actual crime. If you know anyone who has been a victim, ask them. I guarantee that they will tell you that the horror of it in no way compares with email abuse or harassment. Marcel was not a particular friend (or enemy for that matter) of mine although he sent a few offlists. His stuff was long and life is short, so I mostly deleted him. His behaviour was despicable and I feel guilt for not condemning him. Debra was supported by better people than me. . Finally, the use of the word "Dear" is common in written communication between strangers and I used it on that occasion to convey courtesy to you, given the starkness of my request. Feel free to reply to me offlist if you wish. I would extend the hand of friendship to you any time. Philip NP Lemon Jelly - KY - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 1:50 PM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #406 > philip, > 1. i'm not your dear. > 2. it is self centered to view this list from the first person singular. i > sent you nothing. my thoughts were shared in support of those who have been > bullied by marcel. i don't know you and i certainly did not send YOU > anything. it is very possible philip, that your expericence alone is not the > only experience. learn to look away. learn to let others share their > experiences. > 3. you did send me something...you copied me directly. please do not ever > send me anything direct again. > pat > > - ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > > > > 1. marcel is a cyber rapist. > > > > Dear Pat, > > > > Please do not send me any more of this ugly nonsense. > > > > thanks, > > Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:28:08 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Take a look at my online photos! In a message dated 16/09/01 02:01:37 GMT Daylight Time, rosemjoy@aol.com writes: << I created an album of some photos I took today at Washington Rock State Park in Greenbrook, NJ. >> Rose, I have to confess that I almost deleted your post unread, because when I saw the subject and before I saw it was from you, I thought it was one of those, ahem, saucy junk mail invitations to partake of licentious material on the net, if you get my drift :-) Blushing slightly, Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 19:50:10 -0400 From: "marianne marianne" Subject: [none] Correction: Ghandi wrote, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind>" Martin Luther King, Jr. quoted him, I'm told. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:41:24 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Subject: Clarification: Joni's next project "Lamadoo" wrote: >>The scary part is the working title: "Swan Song". >>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO >>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO >>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO >>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! I'm sure this is just typical Joni humor. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:40:05 EDT From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Another perspective god help me, sending incendiary political fodder to this tinder box of a list, but i found the perspective in this article quite compelling and important. i've never done it before and i seriously question the wisdom of doing it now, but it may well be that tuesday last has set into motion a series of events in which thousands, if not millions more innocent people will die. before we watch our fellow citizens jump on that bandwagon, consider the following...and if this provokes discussion, and i think it should, i hope it is a respectful one. in peace, ric > Tamim, a writer and columnist in San Francisco is originally from > Afghanistan. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone > Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean > killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, > but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we > do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the > belly to do what must be done." > > And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am > from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never > lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will > listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. > > I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. My hatred > comes from first hand experience. There is no doubt in my mind that these > people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something > must be done about those monsters. > > But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the > government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who > took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a > plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,think > Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in > the concentration camps." > > It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. > They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone > would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of > international thugs holed up in their country. > > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few > years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled > orphans in Afghanistan-a country with no economy, no food. There are > millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in > mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all > destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan > people have not overthrown the Taliban. > > We come now to the question of "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." > Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the > Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn > their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. > Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? > Too late. Someone already did all that. > > New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least > get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, > only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe > the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too > fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping > bombs would not really be a strike against the criminals who did this > horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the > Taliban-by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. > > So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true > fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with > ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be > done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as > needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent > people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table > is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting > their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than > that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go > through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan > would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see > where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. > > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. > That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right > there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem > ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the > West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those > lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better > from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West > would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and > millions would > die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Unfortunately, > Bin Laden does. Anyone else? > > In Peace, > > Tamim Ansary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:41:54 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: For the fire fighters this is an excerpt from Walt Whitman's "Song of Me" in "Leaves of Grass" I understand the large hearts of heroes, The courage of present times and all times, How the skipper saw the crowded and rudderless wreck of the steam-ship, and Death chasing it up and down the storm, How he knuckled tight and gave not back an inch, and was faithful of days and faithful of nights, And chalk'd in large letters on a board, Be of good cheer, we will not desert you; How he follow'd with them and tack'd with them three days and would not give it up, How he saved the drifting company at last, How the lank loose-gown'd women look'd when boated from the side of their prepared graves, How the silent old-faced infants and the lifted sick, and the sharp-lipp'd unshaved men; All this I swallow, it tastes good, I like it well, it becomes mine, I am the man, I suffer'd, I was there. Agonies are one of my changes of garments, I do not ask the wounded person how he feels, I myself become the wounded person, My hurts turn livid upon me as I lean on a cane and observe. I am the mash'd fireman with breast-bone broken, Tumbling walls buried me in their debris, Heat and smoke I inspired, I heard the yelling shouts of my comrades, I heard the distant click of their picks and shovels, They have clear'd the beams away, they tenderly lift me forth. I lie in the night air in my red shirt, the pervading hush is for my sake, Painless after all I lie exhausted but not so unhappy, White and beautiful are the faces around me, the heads are bared of their fire-caps, The kneeling crowd fades with the light of the torches. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #289 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?