From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #283 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, September 12 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 283 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #396 ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: [Jonifest2001] RE: Overwhelming sadness ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: debra [colin ] Re: NYC today (long) [colin ] Today in Joni History: September 12 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: September 12 [les@jmdl.com] list and email [colin ] Tragedy [pyramus@lineone.net] shock ["Robert Holliston" ] Has anyone heard from Emily? [Brian Gross ] yesterday, today [Mags ] Support ["Paul Castle" ] Re: shock [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Overwhelming sadness [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Overwhelming sadness [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: NYC's Folks checking in [Bruyere ] and in the end [Mags ] the drone of planes at night... [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Overwhelming sadness ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: Gregg Cagno ["Donna J. Binkley" ] To Gregg and all, survivor database [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Has anyone heard from Emily? [Emily K Gray ] to Laurent [Anne Sandstrom ] The day after [RobSher50@aol.com] some good news [Anne Sandstrom ] Empathy for other countries [RobSher50@aol.com] Joni Lines ["William Waddell" ] EVIL SUCKS ["Thom Byrd" ] Give to Red Cross via Amazon [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: Give to Red Cross via Amazon [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Personal attacks vs ideological debate - FOR EVERYONE ["Brenda J. Wal] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:43:23 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #396 Azeem wrote "And the fact that one of the flights was apparently on its way from Boston to LA makes me shudder - I imagine some of the listers might have been on that flight a week ago after the Jonifest." We were on the American Airlines Boston to Los Angeles flight on Labor Day. So I am devastated & thankful at the same time... Praying for Peace, Kate ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:48:43 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: [Jonifest2001] RE: Overwhelming sadness Happy Anniversary Pearl & Steve, How absolutely wonderful to hear this story which is the perfect antidote for today. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:02:23 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Hold on extra tight tonight! John and I are apart dutring the during the week-Mon to fri. We speak eevryday on the phone and always call eachother last thing at night. Right now I wish he were not in London. Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Today's events brings to mind that we should never let a loved one, friend, > spouse go, without and an embrace and saying a simple: I LOVE YOU! We never > no what tomorrow will bring. Or the next minute for that matter. > > So, if you are fortunate enough tonight to have a special someone in your > life, let them know your love for them and hold 'em tight. There is NO > guarantee of a tomorrow. (if you don't have a lover, partner, spouse, > friend, surely you have a dog or cat, something? Give them a special pet) > > My prayers are with everyone, stay safe > > Bree > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:17:09 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: debra I can't help but imagine that if yesterday had been Debra's last day with us, that she would have taken with her the negativity aimed her recently. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:18:25 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NYC today (long) I was hardly breathing as I read this and all the other posts from listers. Debra, it is amazing you are with us to tell your story. i cannot imagine what you must feel this day. my love as always colin xoxoxo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:09:31 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: September 12 On September 12 in Joni Mitchell History: 1994: From Wally's Bio Page: [Today] Joni and Larry stopped by Santa Monica, Ca. radio station KCRW-FM and taped a broadcast with DJ Chris Douridas for his excellent series "Morning Becomes Eclectic." This hour-long broadcast is noteworthy because of the stellar sound, and the fact that Joni and Larry were performing together on the air for perhaps the last time. In conversation, Joni spoke of their separation for the first time, and said they were obviously still friends. The show was broadcast on the morning of October 25th. (Click the link for a complete transcription of the interview.) More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/940912mbe.cfm http://www.JoniMitchell.com/LARadio94.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:09:31 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: September 12 On September 12 this article was published: 1994: "Morning Becomes Eclectic" - KCRW-FM (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/940912mbe.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 631 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:39:54 +0100 From: colin Subject: list and email this new form of communication we all use has really opened our worlds hasn't it? Were it not for it, yesterday would have been something that happened a long long way away. Instead it is like it was here. Four years of bonding and sharing lives. Yesterday i was numb and shocked, today my throst is coinstricted and i feel breathless. So far it seems our list has escaped this abomination. Waiting for news of listers has been difficult. I am glad we share with eachother here and the love we show eachother. No not hypocritical at all-all families have troubled times and we are family. Love isn't always smooth and we is often tinged with hate. We all, in the heat, say things we regret, things that shame us. we are human. but we love is what we could remember instead of the hate. It would have hurt my heart for ANYONE to have been hurt by yesterdays events. There is no one on this list to whom I would wish harm. We are called to love eachother not like eachother. There is a difference. No matter what pain a person has caused, to build hate for them is damaging, especially for the hater. Whilst it is tempting to sya that the squablles are petty and unimportnat, that would not be true. They are opportunities for gorwth, for learning and for love. As humans we need to be tested, to learn and to grow. And we do so thru diffiuclt times. If everything was lovey dovey and smooth we'd stagnate and be weak and dull. And then evil would flourish. love to all colin xoxoxoxo - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:16:15 +0100 From: pyramus@lineone.net Subject: Tragedy May I add my sincere feelings of disbelief and horror at yesterdays abominable atrocities. I would like to pass on my heartfelt sympathy to anybody who has lost friends or family, as well as my admiration at the dignity and bravery shown by the survivors and the emergency services. This is a terrible tragedy. The list of those lost will be a long one. Absent family and friends, colleagues and acquaintances. Such losses are painful. Think too of all those orphaned children. After the dust settles on this tragic event I am sure that the people of the U.S.A. will be determined to rise from the ashes and show the world the true meaning of human spririt. It is in their nature. What is the world today? It is not what it was yesterday. It has changed. Maybe for the better maybe for the worse, but it will certainly be different. I naturally hope and believe it will be for the better. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:24:30 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: shock I still can't quite accept that this unimaginable thing has happened, even though I've been glued to CNN all day, and like most of the rest of the world, have seen - over and over again - footage that is as surreal as it is horrifying. My deepest condolences to people who, like Anne, are waiting for news about loved ones who are still missing. And profound, tearful relief every time an email has come in from or about a New York JMDLer who is safe. Patrick, Kay (who until very recently worked on the 103rd floor of the South Tower), Debra, Alison, David, and anyone in NYC and DC: you are very much in our thoughts and hearts right now. Even more, my prayers are for anyone who may still be trapped and clinging to life under God knows how many feet of debris (as I type this, CNN is announcing that two people have been rescued from beneath the rubble). I can't begin to imagine the fear experienced by the passengers on the four hijacked planes, or by the folks immolated in the World Trade Center. Nothing in my 45 years has ever shocked me as much as this. It seems we really don't know what we've got till it's gone. We lost many people yesterday, and every human life is sacred and irreplaceable. North Americans have lost any sense of security, something I don't believe will be restored within the lifetime of even the youngest JMDLer (then again, many countries elsewhere in the world have never enjoyed a moment's security). Other listers have said this and better, but it's worth saying again, especially since the 4th Jonifest is still a fresh memory. Every moment spent with the people we love, friends and family, is beyond any estimable value or price. How easily we forget that! Today, after this appalling act of terrorism, we saw people, professionals and bystanders, risking (and in some cases, sacrificing) their lives in an effort to save total strangers. It may be a small indication of the basic goodness of human beings, but I'm ready to cling to it. What other choice is there? Much, much love to you all Roberto _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:53:30 -0400 From: Brian Gross Subject: Has anyone heard from Emily? It would seem that our family here is all accounted for, after yesterday's tragedy, except for Emily and Courtney. Has anyone heard from her? still numb, almost 24 hrs later, brei - -- After twenty-three years you'd think I could find A way to let you know somehow That I want to see your smiling face Forty-five years from now. --Stan Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:09:44 -0400 From: Mags Subject: yesterday, today I laid down a promise the night before last to answer each and every one of the emails sitting in my inbox...I have been so deeply touched by the love, friendship and caring that has been demonstrated on this list to others and to myself. That was my plan for yesterday. Yesterday. My day off. After a long intensive haul of seven straight days in a row, the last day stretched into ten hours, I was so completely immersed in the work I do. I am one of the people in the background of a community pharmacy. I am part of a team of people who provide palliative care for those who spend their last days at home. As an IV technician, I am hypnotized by the whirr of the fan in the sterile procedures hood much of my day, and while I prepare antibiotics and cassettes for pain I think. And I think some more. I think about how meaningful my work is ...and I hope and pray that the work I do does in fact help those suffering on the inside and on the outside of illness. Oh it takes a village. I was looking so forward to my day off. Yesterday. A glorious day all to myself. No chores ahead. I was biting at the bit to get into my mail and send responses to my old and new found friends and family here on the jmdl. My life line. I drove Miranda to school, something I don't usually do on such a glorious day as yesterday. However, yesterday, I did. And on the way there, traffic was lined up for blocks, so I had to take another route. Dropped her off at the side of her school, heard her say, Mom, I really love you as she squeezed my hand. This in itself was a precious moment I will treasure always. Tears well up in my eyes for her. For her suffering. I need to believe ... she will be okay...she will be okay.... my newest mantra. The mantra of a mom who has been through way too much around loss around losing children and seeing my Mimi girl like this has been so hard. Helpless. That's how Ive felt about it. *It* has been easier because of the mass of support via email I have received lately. All of which I was going to go through yesterday. I was going to tell you yesterday how much your love and support means to me. On my way home, caught in the snarls of Main Street traffic, I decide to turn on the CBC radio. Something I rarely do. I crave peace and quiet especially in the morning hours of the day. I am thinking about where I will go for a walk, when I will speak with my beloved Brei on the phone...yesterday. I hear the voice of Andy Barry on the CBC...he is speaking with someone about the International Film Festival..films created by gifted, talented artists from all over the world. My mind sidesteps to my international family here. Yesterday, my thoughts turn to you. Then the talk on the radio turns to a new film on the Holocaust. My swirling thoughts are stopped in their tracks. Then my mind goes to a thousand places all at once. I long to relay the story of this new film to Brian. I sit out in my driveway hanging on to every word so that I can get it right, straight. I did this only yesterday. The programme is long. I decide to resume listening inside. I quickly turn the key and run upstairs and turn the radio on. Again, this is something I rarely do. I crave silence, especially on my day off. Yesterday. I am listening to the bits of soundtrack which conjure up the images provoked by the creator of this film, I begin to shake. The images are far too real for my comfort level. They talk of babies. I am so vulnerable to this . The ramifications run deep inside me. Naturally, like a reflex, my thoughts turn to Brian. Yesterday. All of a sudden, there is some surreal announcement that the WTC has been hit. I am also hit... by shock and disbelief and fear. I think of my beloved joni family members who I just spent the weekend with and my mind is racing now. Adrenalin has taken over. Yesterday. I pick up the phone and call Brian. He's at work now. I ask him if he's heard the news. He hasn't. Shock. He cant believe it either. After a few moments, he has to attend to a business call, he will call me back. Another moment in our shared life. I turn on the TV. Definitely something I never do, however, yesterday, I could not believe my ears, so I had to see it , I just had to. I am such a visual person, perhaps seeing would help my scattered mind make sense of it. I saw it all. Yesterday. The phone rings only a few minutes later....sweet relief, Brian's voice. He is watching with me as we try to figure out what the hell has hit the first tower. We see flames and smoke billowing out of the top...and wonder and wonder. All of a sudden, we see the image which is now burned into memory...a second plane. At first I think..oh they are doing a computer generated reinactment. Crazy. Then they are telling us that this is real. A second plane has hit the second tower. Has the world gone mad? What the hell is happening .... we are both getting really upset. Oh God, cant we turn back the clock and change yesterday? Then we hear the panic filled news about Washington...a plane has gone down smack into the Pentagon. Oh God. And then the buildings are flaming even higher and hotter and the whole thing goes out of control and they are screaming terrorist in our midst. More news of hijacked planes...images painted through the fear in otherwise calm reporters. Smoke in our eyes. I cannot believe this happened only yesterday. Yesterday. I feel sick. Brian is 500 miles away from me. This thought keeps coming to the surface as we watch the horror unfold. 500 miles and in another country. Ripped apart. Separated by miles and borders. Borders which will no longer give us easy access to each other. My mind races. How long will it take me to drive to Mimi's school and then to the border and then to Brian. I need to be with him. Now. Then I hear that the borders are closed. Shut down. Damn yesterday. We are so scared. We watch the images together and cry and cry. We are so afraid of losing communication with each other....we say "DONT hang up!" At this point, we feel we are headed for even more destruction. In these frantic moments watching all hell break loose on this glorious day, we think that full blown war has broken out. How the hell is this possible??? How??? Brian and I tell each other over and over, I love you, dont ever forget that. I can almost feel his arms around me. I feel horrible in this moment thinking I will never feel those arms around me again. The love of my life so far away. We spend the next two hours or so on the phone. We will not hang up. We will not leave each other. We begin to talk about the family members who live in NYC...everyone we saw at the Fest...all the people who flew from Boston to home. I cannot think straight anymore. We are worried sick and are heartbroken and shocked for the ramifications are so great. So deep. So endless. We will never be the same again. All because of yesterday. Our love is fortified. In the midst of images, rubble, smoke, fire, poisoned air....one thing remains. This love I share with this magnificent man who has given me my life back. He has become my reason for being. We find Rose in NJ on the phone and then Bob Murphy and Jimmy and Polifka via bouncing emails over the course of the day ...thank God for the internet where we can, at the very least, reach out through our words. My send box is full to the brim with of reassurances and shared wild emotion over this whole thing. I see a name on line and let out a big sigh. Relief amidst the horror of yesterday. Yesterday I find you. You are okay. Yesterday. Strangely enough, I have the best night's sleep I have had in ages. I sleep as though I am knocked out. Maybe I was. Maybe it was all too much. I know that to be true. And good God, it really did happen. Yesterday. Today the sun is shining. I breathe deeply. I pray that the worst is behind us. I pray for the souls whose lives were taken yesterday. I thank God for the reports from the NY listers, our hearts go out to you as you are so terribly close to it all. I cannot imagine. This morning, I wake at 630 and rush to the computer to find another avalanche of mail. I scan and try to take in the words. Words. I am once again reduced to tears and so many feelings of gratitude and horror and fear. I am swept back into the depths as I read the heartwrenching story from Kay Ashley, John VanTiel...Pearl...Debra....Colin ... everyone. Backflash. I am back on the beach by Atty May's ... standing in the glory of that moonlit night arm in arm with five countries, watching John and Claud , Claud and Brian touch hearts in support of one another...slipping my hand inside his as I listen to Chris Marshall tell us how deeply moved he is well beyond words to be here. To be with us. I remember it all like it was only yesterday. As I read, I take inside me to deep and safe places, your stories, your yesterday thoughts, prayers for peace and safety....yesterday. May the expressions of peace and love we sent across the world yesterday fill in all the holes inside each and every one of us today. sending you love, hugs and hope. Mags np: silence - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:46:01 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Support If there is any support - practical or emotional - I can give, I would like all on the list to know that I (and all other UK list members, I'm sure) will do the best we can. If anyone, for example, is having a problem reaching friends and relatives in the UK to tell them they are OK, please e-mail me, and I'll phone them - Please ask - I would like to help - and I shall do my best. Talking to my mother, who lived through the London Blitz, she says it was the strong community support and its sense of humour, flying in the face of such adversity, that got the people back together again. Please take care PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:59:42 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: shock In a message dated 9/12/01 7:25:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roberto1011@hotmail.com writes: > Other listers have said this and better, but it's worth saying again, > especially since the 4th Jonifest is still a fresh memory. It was only the fourth? I thought the first Jonifest in Pittsburgh was 1997, which would make this last one the fifth, but I could be mistaken. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:02:29 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Overwhelming sadness Thank you, all of you that have posted uplifting and loving words these past 2 days. I can't stop crying and thinking about this terrible tragedy, and how all our lives are forever changed. I did not know anyone personally on either of the planes that left Boston, but know many, many people that did. Sometimes I think it really stinks to be so sensitive and have such an open heart, because it feels so very personal to me, and I truly just can't stop the tears. There is a price to pay for wearing your heart on your sleeve. I can only read a few messages at a time, before I am overwhelmed again, but I am so very grateful for this community, this family I belong to here. Thank you for being there with your comforting words. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:05:51 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Overwhelming sadness In a message dated 9/12/01 9:03:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: > . I did not know anyone personally on either > of the planes that left Boston, I'm glad you did not know John Cahill of Wellesley, Mass., because according to AOL's list he was on BOTH flights out of Boston. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:05:21 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: NYC's Folks checking in this good to know! i have been soooo worried. love and faith to all, heather At 11:10 AM 9/11/01 -0500, Michael Paz wrote: >Just got off the phone with Alison who is packing her truck to move home >right now. She sez to tell everyone that her and Jeff are ok and that here >cell in not working. Just wanted you all to know. > >Love > >Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:08:28 -0400 From: Mags Subject: and in the end no matter what, we still have each other and the love and expressions of love which are so evident on this list and beyond. we shall overcome. je me souviens. i remember. mags. - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:25:41 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: the drone of planes at night... Just as I started to drop off to sleep last night, I heard something that I normally wouldn't pay any attention to. A plane. I'm a few miles from a military base. I heard them all night. And another, just as I'm writing this. I'd like to make one slight editorial comment. Sorry, I don't recall whose post this came from. My apologies to that JMDLer for my being so careless in forgetting. The post read "All I care is that people dont become too patriotic and decide to hurt innocent victims here in the US that had nothing to do with anything." It's just the writer/editor in me, I realize. Drives my friends and family nuts. I agree with your sentiment entirely, but would suggest you might reconsider the word "patriotic" and use "vengeful" instead. For me, patriotic means doing what I did yesterday. I voted. (small local election...) It's ok to be patriotic - proud of the people who do everything from the mundane to the heroic to make the country a better place to live in. Proud of those who stand in line to give blood, proud of 200 firefighters who lost their lives trying to save others, proud of the passengers of Flight 93, who it appears thwarted the hijackers' attempts and lost their own lives doing so. It's ok to be proud of the principles of one's government, and better still to work, even in small, local ways to make it better. It's not ok to be vengeful. To indiscriminately lash out at anyone who's different from you or doesn't share your point of view. I hope I'm not belaboring this (but I guess I am). Sorry for being so long-winded. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:32:46 -0400 From: Mags Subject: Re: Overwhelming sadness Ashara, I hope you know how much you are loved. You are our mother , our angel, our saint, our beloved friend. Because of you, we had the opportunity to gather together in the sanctuary of your home . In the midst of all those wonderful moments, little did we realize just how those days together would serve to fortify us so that we could endure yesterday with strength. Over the course of being a part of this jmdl family, we have learned how to reach out, to lean on each other, to hold each other close in our most vulnerable moments in your kitchen, in your music room, in the candle room. For me, this is the essence of life. To know that I am never alone. Ever. Because of you sweet angel Ashara. I am so thankful to you our beloved Ashara, beyond words. love, Mags and Brian. AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Thank you, all of you that have posted uplifting and loving words these past > 2 days. I can't stop crying and thinking about this terrible tragedy, and how > all our lives are forever changed. I did not know anyone personally on either > of the planes that left Boston, but know many, many people that did. > Sometimes I think it really stinks to be so sensitive and have such an open > heart, because it feels so very personal to me, and I truly just can't stop > the tears. There is a price to pay for wearing your heart on your sleeve. I > can only read a few messages at a time, before I am overwhelmed again, but I > am so very grateful for this community, this family I belong to here. Thank > you for being there with your comforting words. > > Hugs, > Ashara - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:00:37 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Overwhelming sadness > Sometimes I think it really stinks to be so sensitive and have such an open > heart, because it feels so very personal to me, and I truly just can't stop > the tears. Just a few days ago I was overwhelmed by the beauty of this community, this jmdl, and now I am overwhelmed with sadness. It's hard to function, so surreal, and yet very real. I remember thinking of how beautiful the clouds were on my flight home, how utterly gorgeous they seemed, like some kind of heavenly garden, now forever tainted by these events. I thought about how the Simpsons went to New York, and Homer parked his car right in front of the World Trade Center and got a boot on it, and how he went up to the very top of tower 1 only to find that the bathroom was out of order, and he had to go all the way down and then up to the top of tower 2, just to use the bathroom, and then, he was so determined to get home, he drove his car with the boot on it, all the way through New York City. That's how hard it feels to function, accomplish anything right now... I am grateful for the love that is here.. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:30:14 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Gregg Cagno Hi All, Everyone please send up your prayers for our Gregg Cagno. I believe he lives in PA and works in NY areas. I sent him a private email yesterday to check on him and he has not responded. Also for my cousin Lance Goodwin who worked at the World Trade Center. There has been no word about him, we cannot reach him or his partner at their home. Thanks to all of you for your support and prayers at this terrible time. May God help us. Love Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Mags Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:08 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: and in the end no matter what, we still have each other and the love and expressions of love which are so evident on this list and beyond. we shall overcome. je me souviens. i remember. mags. - -- And this loving is a drawing close, a tuning in, an opening. Until one perfect moment; but how can it be expressed? A receiving, an enfolding as I cradle you in my arms. Within my heart, within my soul, You are my true love. --Lui Collins - --- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:29:51 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: To Gregg and all, survivor database In a message dated 9/11/01 11:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, greggno@hotmail.com writes: > I'm floored and in shock and still can't believe this is real, > but I know it is. This world just makes no sense today. > I worked in World Trade Center 2 for 2 years and am > praying for friends there who are hopefully OK. > I don't have a whole lot of hope after seeing those buildings > crumble, but I'm trying to keep some some faith. > Please send some prayers for survivors in NYC and DC. > Give blood if you can. They need type O blood bad now > and I fear they will need a whole lot more tomorrow. > > If you go to http://www.ny.com/wtcform.html, they have built a World Trade Center Survivor Online Database in an effort to help people find out about their loved ones. Hope this helps, Rose in NJ NP: Everything is Changing rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:39:39 -0400 From: Emily K Gray Subject: Re: Has anyone heard from Emily? courtney and i are OK; in shock; trying to cope. we each know of a number of missing people. yesterday i felt and heard the blasts from my apartment; watched as clouds of smoke billowed down onto our street; felt a shudder as the world trade center collapsed. literally -- my neighbor and i were sitting on my floor, watching it on TV and saying to each other "that's that rumble; that's what it is." it was surreal -- i unpacked all the towels courtney and i have been given as wedding gifts and rolled them all under doors, in windows, to prevent smoke. courtney walked back to brooklyn from midtown; it was a four hour ordeal and many intense sights. i'm holding on here in brooklyn today -- joined a group of hundreds of people out to volunteer time, food, clothes and blood. everyone who can help is out there doing it, it appears. thanks for asking about us -- my thoughts and prayers are with all today as we struggle to get things stabilized. - -- emily - ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Gross Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 7:53 am Subject: Has anyone heard from Emily? > It would seem that our family here is all accounted for, after > yesterday's tragedy, except for Emily and Courtney. > Has anyone heard from her? > > still numb, almost 24 hrs later, > brei > > -- > After twenty-three years you'd think I could find > A way to let you know somehow > That I want to see your smiling face > Forty-five years from now. > > --Stan Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:19:42 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: to Laurent I sign my emails "lots of love" and I mean it from the bottom of my heart. I couldn't even find it in me to give my disease to another human being, no matter what horrific crimes they've committed. But to Laurent, I scream "What the hell's the matter with you!!!! Get off this list!" This list is NOT a repubic in which each individual's rights are protected under the law. This list is NOT a democracy in which the majority rules. This list is a privilege! It is a private space. We are here because of Les Irvin's efforts and generosity. Period. I have no interest in hearing your brand of hateful politics. You want to do something? Good. Shut your mouth, extend your arm and let the Red Cross draw blood from it. Take out your wallet and send real money to help rescue innocent victims. Go to a church, temple, mosque or other place of worship and get down on your knees and be thankful for what you do have, including the privilege of having been allowed to share in a community as loving and giving as this one. I do not hate you. But I am extremely angry that you could possibly think that weilding your vengeful tongue is even appropriate at a time like this. May whoever God is have mercy on your soul. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:22:14 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: The day after Hi everyone, At this moment in time, I am so thankful for the safety of people on our list that were at ground zero who have sent word that they are okay. I am also saddened by those who have not yet heard from friends and loved ones who are missing. My brother is stationed at Andrews Air Force Base and makes regular trips to the Pentagon. When news came that a hijacked plane crashed into the building, I was frantic that my brother was there. I called my sister in Norfolk, Virginia who had my step sister on the other line, and was also frantic because she could not get an outside line. For some reason, I was able to get a phone call through to the base and spoke to one of his coworkers. She reassured me that he was there and all right. They were not sure if they were going to evacuate the base. My brother sent me an email shortly thereafter letting me know he was all right. They were not allowed to call out. I called my other brother stationed at an Air Force base in Idaho and he was very grateful as he was not allowed to call out. After getting in touch with my wed to call out either. Apparently, this is military protocol when a high security alert is given. My niece, stationed at Offut Air Force Base in Nebraska thanked me and told me that she was also not allowed to call out. After getting in touch with my three brothers and two sisters to let them know that our family was safe, I crumbled emotionally watching the horror of those who were not so fortunate. One of my friends told me that her sister-in-law works in management for American Airlines, and they have been told that in the case of hijackings and terrorist attacks, their airline would probably be targeted because of the symbolism. This came true as they hijacked both American and United flights. One of the flights crashed close to me outside of Pittsburgh. This frightened those in my area and there was a run on the gas stations to fill up our tanks. In almost city in our area, police had to direct traffic because the line to fill up our tanks spilled into the street and blocked oncoming traffic. My older sister wept uncontrollably in her bathroom at work because her daughter, my niece, was supposed to be stationed at the Pentagon. When the orders were changed to Offut AFB in Nebraska, my niece was crushed. She wanted to stay on the East coast with her family. My sister told her there must be a reason why she was supposed to go back to Nebraska. Yesterday's events proved the point with no uncertainty. My daughter's father is New York policeman. She called me worried because being in Connecticut, she could not get a line to New York. for some reason, I was able to, and I was able to confirm that he was in the police office when both WTC buildings collapsed. I just hope that the person I talked to has their timelines right. My fear now is for the safety of my family should we be called to war. I do not want war, but I want this scoundrel and his associates found and punished. It was hard to sleep last night knowing that there were people fighting for their lives beneath the rubble. All I could do was pray and cry to God for their protection. I wish I could give blood, but I am a diabetic. I am grateful for everyone on this list who is safe and sound. I am ashamed of those who would degrade and demean others when asked not to and am asking you to stop this type of behavior immediately. AS we have seen, life is too short for nonsense like this. Sherelle NP: Tapestry by Carole King ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:28:43 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: some good news Jimmy is ok. He happened to be at the company's other office yesterday. Thank God! And thank you (once again) for all your thoughts and prayers. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:44:31 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Empathy for other countries In this moment of clarity, I feel ashamed of the fact that I did not let the tragedies of terrorist attacks in other countries affect me like what has happened in my own homeland. These evil people have been carrying out similar attacks since 1968 at the Olympics when Israeli athletes were brutally murdered. Somehow, through the years, society has become more detached since it did not happen in our own back yard. I cannot speak for the world in general as I know that there are some who have been consistent in showing uniform abhorrence for acts of terrorism. But it has become increasingly easier to "switch the channel" when something too unpleasant is shown. From this day forward, I want to have show the same disgust for any act of terrorism perpetrated against any person's home soil. I am not embarrassed or ashamed of my country as I believe that any plan so deviously contrived was destined to succeed. It's hard to protect oneself against nameless, faceless cowards. Though I was saddened by the tragic bombings at the two US embassies in Africa, I now have a deeper understanding and appreciation for what they went through and I am glad the US retaliated against such awful attacks. Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:10:26 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: Joni Lines Taking the town by surprise Stares up empty at the sky And summer goes Falls to the sidewalk like string and brown paper With gangs and girly shows The ghostly garden grows The bedlam of the day The seasons are changing Everyday in everyway Never mind their questions there's no answer for A dream that you love someone A dream that the wars are done Nowhere near the mentioned murder place But sandcastles crumble And hunger is human And humans are hungry For worlds they can't share He is bleeding from the war When all the black cards come you cannot barter The shadow trembles in its wrath, I've robbed its blackness blind And tasted sunlight as my fear came clear to me And so once again you are fightin' us all What time is this To trade the handshake for the fist The wind rushed around in the dirty town And the children let out from the schools But for an ancient injury That has not healed We are stardust We are golden And we've got to get ourselves Back to the garden And I dreamed I saw the bombers Riding shotgun in the sky And they were turning into butterflies Above our nation Fearful when the sky was full of thunder And tearful at the falling of a star An empty space to fill in Well there're so many sinking now You've got to keep thinking You can make it thru these waves They won't give peace a chance That was just a dream some of us had Oh, blackness, blackness dragging me down Come on light the candle in this poor heart of mine "Love is touching souls" Out of touch with the breakdown Of this century You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky They're going to aim the hoses on you Show 'em you won't expire Not till you burn up every passion Not even when you die Everybody's in it for their own gain I feel like I'm sleeping Can you wake me Still I sent up my prayer Everything comes and goes Pleasure moves on too early And trouble leaves too slow Advice and religion-you can't take it You can't seem to believe it In flames our prophet witches Be polite Uprising in me tonight Truth goes up in vapors The steeples lean God goes up the chimney A rebel loves a cause Any man in the world holding out his arm Would soon be made to pay Jesus was a beggar, he was rich in grace Golden in time Cities under the sand Power, ideals and beauty Fading in everyone's hand Every picture has its shadows And it has some source of light Threatened by all things Devil of cruelty Critics of all expression Judges in black and white Saying it's wrong, saying it's right Where some have found their paradise Other's just come to harm A defector from the petty wars In the church they light the candles And the wax rolls down like tears Shine your light on me Miss Liberty I saw a black crow flying In a blue sky We're always keeping score We're always balancing the power "Heart and humor and humility" He said "Will lighten up your heavy load" And you couldn't see a city On that marbled bowling ball Or a forest or a highway Or me here least of all While Muslims stick up Washington ... I nearly broke down and cried Here in Good-Old-God-Save-America The home of the brave and the free The eagle and the serpent are at war in me What strange prizes these battles bring I heard there was no sickness And no toil or danger Just mercy and plenty Where peaceful waters flow Of the darkness in men's minds What can you say That wasn't marked by history Or the T.V. news today Ghosts of the future Phantoms of the past Love suffers long-- Love is kind!-- Enduring all things-- Love has no evil in mind Wouldn't they like their peace While madmen sit up building bombs There's evil in this land Fuck it! And he's not heaven sent I've been all around the world Mission Impossible Fighting among ourselves Study war no more Lay down your arms "They gave me a gun," he said "They gave me a mission For the power and the glory-- They train you to kill-- To be a pin on some map-- Some vicarious thrill-- Who you gonna get to do the dirty work When all the slaves are free? Hoping and hoping As if by my weak faith The spirit of this world Would heal and rise And the wrath has finally taken form Just the strong doing what they can And the weak suffering what they must? This massive mess we're in! The hero cannot make the change Every bristling shaft of pride Church or nation Team or tribe Every notion we subscribe to Is just a borderline And you praise barbarity In this illusionary place-- Let me speak, let me spit out my bitterness-- What have I done to you? That you make everything I dread and everything I fear come true? This time you went too far Bigger beasts abound And they kick this world around At this crazy speed With violence and greed Bless us, don't let us lose the drift You know, Happiness is the best facelift. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:18:51 -0400 From: "Thom Byrd" Subject: EVIL SUCKS I can't evn put my mind around the events of yesterday*I pray for the victims*and the perpetraters* thom _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:20:52 EDT From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Give to Red Cross via Amazon hello, I am new to the JMDL. I've been on the list for about a month. I really enjoy it. I work in DC near the Pentagon and could see it burning from the next door office window. It was quite a scary sight, although I was never in any danger. I feel very bad for everyone who lost friends and family. For those of you who've bought from Amazon, I just wanted to let you know that they have any easy system set up where you click to donate money to the Red Cross, and they use the credit card information you've already entered into Amazon. I appreciate the chance to do this because my husband has hepatitis C and so I've learned I am not eligible to donate blood. I hope all are well, Mary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:32:56 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Give to Red Cross via Amazon <> Hello, Mary, and welcome to the JMDL! Obviously, things now are a little wierd, and thanks for your message regarding Amazon and the Red Cross. Our company set up an account with them such that they will match every dollar we as employees donate. They made a substantial donation as well on top of that. For today anyway, I'm proud to be a part of this corporation. So, how long have you been a Joni fan? Favorite album? A Joni song that has a special meaning for you? Just trying to get back to some semblance of a garden... Bob NP (Now Playing): Whiskeytown, "16 Days" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:31:12 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Personal attacks vs ideological debate - FOR EVERYONE I'd like to ask that we have a moratorium on this type of discussion (personal attacks and political debates) for the rest of the week. I have a cousin who is a Manhattan cop and a friend who worked for Morgan Stanley who are still not accounted for. If either of them has perished, the political debate won't bring them back and is frankly, infuriating. The list has been a light because of the empathetic wishes and encouraging reports. It would be nice if it could continue to serve that primary purpose for just a little while longer. Brenda On 12 Sep 2001, at 13:13, MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > I ask that Debra Shea Azeem and Colin and Patrick Leader not read this post. > If they choose to do so I ask that they not comment. Lets see how well they > obey anothers request since so many have stated emphatically that thats > verboten to disregard someone elses requests. > > First a little matter of who contacted who first: > > Debra Shea contacted me first. proof delivered. > > MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > > > > Colin is just loaded with compliments as usual. It must be dark in there > > where his head is located. > > There you go again, describing yourself while trying to insult someone > else. > > > Marcel. who has been forcefiully begged to not send anything to Mr. > > Personality. > > Begged? Really? Looked to me like a definite and polite request, another > one, after many such requests that you've chosen to ignore. I'm amazed > Colin can still be polite about it. You don't deserve it. > > Debra Shea>>> > > She wasnt writing to the list as evidenced by her addressing me directly. She > was writing to me. I responded to the above. > > Ok you have all had your fun attacking Marcel Deste as a human being. Even my > wife. Are you all proud or do you now all go and wash your hands with Patrick > Leader. > > I get between 250 to 400 emails per day. Some are digests of economic news > and political news. I would stack my information input and real fact input up > against anyone on this list. I read Arabic newspapers as well as Euro and > Western and even Russian newspapers and editorial opinions. I frequently > visit congressional testimony archives and National Security and defense > websites. > > I have always had no restrictions to email that is sent me even from my > ideological adversaries. I read them all. Some I skim but I see all the ones > in which I am mentioned. I have always believed that every person is entitled > to his own beliefs. Clearly and categorically not everyone on this list > believes that. That doesnt mean that their beliefs are free from criticism. > Mine included.My only "crime" has been to want to keep personal and > potentially incendiary ideological debates from intruding into everyone elses > life since the actual purpose of the JMDL is music not Ideological Jihads. > Consideration for other people is bad. Mea cupla. > > In fact they believe the opposit. So Im a "cyber-rapist" and > "cyber-terrorist". After yesterday Im not sure many of you understand the > meaning of the word if you use it to describe me. All I have ever done is to > challenge political or ideological ideas. I have never called Debra Shea a > bad person. Shes a Marxist ideologically but I have never called her names. > Just differed with her World Views. Another of her supporters said "Im just > as big a pinko Communist as you" to Ms. Shea. Is that person a > cyber-terrorist. If not why not. > > Sarcasm directed at anothers political views is not insulting their wife. > > I fully realize that the communists on this list hate my ideas. When real > Communists have taken over other countries in this century mass murders of > their ideological opponents were the very first thing they did. Hungary, > Poland, the Steppes States, Ukraine etc. Its all part of the mindset of those > who choose to supplant facts and reality with myths and fantasy world views. > They MUST eliminate their intellectual adversaries just as they want to get > rid of anyone who will challenge their views. Like Communism and Marxist > Economic models. This recent event in New York is exhibit A. I provide a > couple of quotes from todays Chronicle. A very liberal newspaper that attacks > George Bush every single day: > > SF Chronicle. Morning edition. > Headline: US Intelligence failed to predict terrorists actions. > > "How such a large scale coordinated effort went undetected by law enforcement > and Intelligence service is incomprehensible except that for the last decade > we have allowed our capabilities to lapse in the one area we need most, human > intelligence" Scott Ritter former head of the UN inspection team in Iraq. > Page A-7 > > {{NB. Mr Ritter also testified at congressional hearings that the buildings > bombed by the Clinton Administration in Baghdad during the impeachment > hearings were all known to have been abandoned}. Wag the dog. > > "Former Vice president Al Gore headed a White House Commission on Aviation > safety but there is no mention in this report of the prospect of terrorists > hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings" Page A-7 > > "Two former CIA operatives with long recent experience in counter terrorism > program for the Middle east assert that the agency was virtually dismantled > (during the Clinton administration)." Page A-7 > > " They didnt dismantle it by taking people out. They dismantled it by putting > people in who knew nothing about it, to run it, (political appointees) people > who have never even been overseas....The branch chiefs have never been to the > Middle East, dont speak Arabic, dont speak Persian". Page A-7 > >>>> > > So when I see all the hand wringing about yesterday and this terrorist attack > act of war it came as no suprise to me. Many of you have attacked me for > being a Clinton "hater". Yesterday is why. I have good reason to. Unless you > are today waving a Palestinian flag today and celebrating along with the > Palestinians you do to. Things like yesterday dont happen by accident. They > have been warned about many times by the same people who are quoted above. > Are they Clinton "haters" for warning us or are they simply people who know > different "facts". If they were on this list they would be my friends and > Azeems and Colins and Debras enemies. > > I see this person Laurent posted the obvious and again is insuilted by Colin. > Colins big point in the middle east thread was that "both sides" are doing > bad things. Really. Equal deal huh? Well Colin when have the Israelis ever > done what the Islamics did yesterday. Attack some distant country and murder > 10-20,000 people. Were they justified? Am I impertinent for stating the > obvious? Colin is wrong. Dead wrong. And he should admit how wrong he has > been for equating the two sides. But he wont. Yesterday was a suicide > bombing. Exactly what has been happening in Israel. For two or six months. > Bigger but the same. > > The United States launched the Bosnia campaign against Christians to stop the > killing of Muslims. Islam ever do that. The Koran clearly states that suicide > is a sin. Look that one up. It also clearly states that Muslims can marry > Jews. Yet these madmen constantly use this book as their justification for > New York. But I digress.... > > My point is this... ideological differences are what life is all about. But > some of you seem to simply despise anyone knowledgeable to challenge your > views. You dismiss any fact you disagree with as "opinions" as if the Isreali > war with Jordan in 1948 for instance is an "opinion" as opposed to a fact. > You castigate and villify the person as opposed to that persons facts and do > so with your own. > > But you also have to realize that your choice of doing so has consequences > like yesterday. When you dismiss critics of the Clinton administration as > simply "hate mongers" (as opposed to an Administration that dismantled our > intelligence agency) it means you accept the responsibility if they were > right and you were wrong. Why should Azeem be speechless. After all he has > been busy attacking Laurent who has simply been pointing out the mentality of > Israels enemies which is what was manifested in New York. The videos of the > Palestinian celebrations are in Azeems and Colins lap not laurents. Maybe if > Azeem wasnt too busy claiming "both sides" are equally bad and pondering > where his view inexhorably led if applied to geopolitics he might respect > Laurents position which has been categorically vindicated with the blood of > 10,000+ New Yorkers. It wasnt "sarcasm" that struck the World Trade Center > for all of you who think that sarcasm is the worlds greatest crime. > > It was the same suicide bombers who have plagued Israel ever since Yassir > Arafat (whose wife was kissed by Hillary Clinton after she said that the Jews > were murdering palestinian children by poisoning their drinking water-another > fact (the kiss not the poison)reported in the New York Times) turned down the > extrordinary offer of Ehud Barak. > > Whats the point of all this political stuff. Simply stated many of you have > closed your minds to reality. You are so blinded by hatred of certain ideas > that you dont even recognize that your hatred exists. And you hate the poeple > who have the ideas you hate. You feed upon each others like mindedness to the > extent that when the consequences of your own views is manifested you neither > recognize it nor do you accept responsibility for it. Laurent has just as > much right to post his views as Colin does to tell us about dog penises and > dog venereal diseases which he seems motivated to do frequently. Without a > peep from any of you. > > There is absolutely no place for the personal attacks you have all engaged in > and you have done that. And why because as the political facts demonstrate > you arent always right. You valued "pro choice" over National Security in > election after election. What happened yesterday is the price. The Middle > east experts statement (not Marcels) shows why that statement is true. His > statement also applies to Chinese espionage activities from 1992 to 2000 > which we will also have to deal with. 1500 experienced fighter pilots have > resigned from the Air Force simply because of Tailhook. While they were > punished you (not me) let the actual predator in the oval office skate. Not > that they did anything but because by simply being there Pat Schroeders jihad > had ended their careers. There are consequences to this liberal fixation of > the political over the hard reality of National Security. If we now need our > best fighter pilots to now go after the terrorists in a foreign country we > wont have them because of Pat Schroeders war against "sexual harrassment" > something Juanita Broderick was ignored for claiming. > > So dont wring your hands over New York. Open your eyes. Years ago your > liberal "We dont need no stinkin military spending" ancestors in Congress > starved the military of funding because there was just no way that this Japan > place could ever touch our shores.The draft passed by one vote in congress > one WEEK before Pearl Harbor. How many of you listers have said we should cut > defense spending because we dont need it. The responsibility for yesterday > rests with those who took away this country's ability to know when it was > going to happen. See the above Chronicle quotes for the person responsible. > Pardon the sarcasm but it isnt Rush Limbaugh. Its whoever put political > appointees in charge of our lives instead of experts because the experts had > different political views. > > We live with the consequences of our views and our votes. > > That someone differs with you does not make them wrong and you right. > Events do that. > > The one good thing that has come out of all this for me is to know who are > the people who truly have hate in their hearts. people who think sarcasm is > worse than negligence. You all saw me in person in Topsfield for three days. > Did you see a person who hates anyone? Did I say one word of negativity to > anyone? Was there anyone I didnt show total respect for even my political > adversaries. On the other hand you hate my words or ideology when political > topics are on the list. If you have read this post you must have some > introspection to consider. This is a free country. > > Lastly I wish to point out one last thing. God broke out in Congress today. > All those staunch foes of prayer in schools were all talking about God. God > bless America. God Bless this country. God bless us all. The session was > commenced with a fervent and long prayer to God. Imagine that. Not one > Democrat shriveled up and died. It even happened on Public Property. Wheres > the ACLU. Even Tom Daschle and Richard Gephardt who will fight to the death > to keep prayer out of schools were cheerleaders for God. Tells you something > doesnt it. They didnt pray to the trial lawyers. They didnt pray to Barabara > Streisand. They didnt even pray to the Government. > > For those of you die hards who still think Bush is crazy and a missle defense > shield is bunko I want you to just imagine how you will feel if someday a > single missle we know will hit LA in 30 minutes is on its way and we must sit > helplessly and watch. Just imagine that what it would be like if what hit the > world trade center yesterday had a warhead. Because the intelligence agencies > were deemed "too expensive with children going hungry" by Clinton we didnt > know. But what if we did. Everyone is calling what happened yesterday > "unimaginable". To me not doing everything possible to make sure it doesnt > happen again is. Is that idea to be deemed "creepy". > > If Shea, Azeem, and Colin comment on this post you will know they violate all > the rules they and others have attacked me for not respecting. I have > categorically demanded that they delete my posts. Time for certain people to > live with the rules they make or be exposed as hypocrites. Marcel deste ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #283 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?