From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #277 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, September 9 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 277 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Jonifest - Part Tres ["Kakki" ] anne heche's wedding ["Robert Holliston" ] Re: NO NOT SWAN SONG>>>>> [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Take the Words Can Heal Pledge ["relayer211@aol.com" ] This Just In!!!!!!!!!!!! ["Victor Johnson" ] The Three Great Stimulants ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: In Search of Chilihead [Michael Paz ] some real joni news ["shane mattison" ] Re: The Three Great Stimulants [colin ] Re: anne heche's wedding [colin ] Dylan@MSG ["Garret" ] sorry ["Garret" ] Re: Subject: some real Joni news [Randy Remote ] Re: The Three Great Stimulants [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: The Three Great Stimulants [colin ] The jmdl underground [Nuriel Tobias ] In the sky turning into a butterfly ["William Waddell" ] Re: The Three Great Stimulants [jan gyn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 23:51:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Jonifest - Part Tres Hell update - arrived right on time back again in L.A. today happy as a clam. We've been recounting everything, of course, laughing and wistful at the same time. In the midst of all of this we received a few calls from fellow wistful festers who wanted to wish us a good night out! But it's been a quiet night and we are in recovery mode for the moment. Reality also hit late last night when I learned my father had been hospitalized - think he will be O.K. - but it's always a fragile situation. If all goes well Hell and I may go see Peter Erskine and Dave Carpenter tomorrow night at Rocco's for only ten bucks ;-) And I haven't forgotten to mention more of you but last night I was literally listing off to starboard with exhaustion and had to go with that. So on to - Mr. Lama - yes, you ARE as good as Diltz - you have the magic eye and touch with the camera. I saw some previews of what Jim took last weekend and every single one is incredible - I can't wait to drool over them all. I was so happy to see you again. What a total prince you are getting Yael to the Fest, too! Thank you for your enduring friendship, Lama. Marilyn - it was great to see you at the Fest this year and I'm glad you got up on stage to join the group. Please post more - you are too quiet! ;-) And I didn't meet Pauline at all - but welcome to the list and to Jonifest! Bob (THE Bob) - Boy, you can sing and we have been seeing more and more of your talent unfolding over the past few fests. "Blue Motel Room?" Yep, you have graduated to the big time! Thanks for your tireless emcee-ing and constant sense of fun! Thanks also for the latest covers disc and the organic mosquito repellent (thanks to Alison and Jody for the same!). I wasn't bulletproof but only ended up with about 6 bites instead of 60 this year! I groaned though, when I saw them heading the same way they have at other Fests. I never have such allergic reactions to them normally and I've been in some heavy duty tropical places in my time. Interestingly, I was waiting to see the doctor the other day and found this little fold-out display made by Claritin of the whole process of allergic skin reactions, including insect bites - LOL! So I perused it and I learned something that had escaped my knowledge previously. Seems that strong emotion alone can bring on the aggravated reaction. Aha! So now we know the real reason and there is no cure because there is no repellent for the heart ;-) Les the Great - I could hug you all the time for how sweet you are, and cute and talented and yeah, yeah, yeah ;-) Thank you as ever for giving us this place to find each other and ourselves. We love you very much. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:59:17 -0700 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: anne heche's wedding Greetings to all, I hope this hasn't been mentioned already since it isn't exactly earth-rocking news, but reports of Anne Heche's recent wedding have the bride walking down the aisle as a pianist plays Joni's A Case of You. No mention of a vocalist, which is probably just as well. "I could drink a case of you" is one thing, but I don't know how comfortable I'd be if I were about to be married and some singer was warning me as I walked down the aisle: "Be Prepared To Bleed!" A Joni-lite post from Roberto _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:27:13 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NO NOT SWAN SONG>>>>> << No, It cannot be. Could this be the last time Joni retires? She "retired in 71', in 80' in 84' after the REfugee Tour, in 86'.. in 99' ... etc. etc. >> Could point, Blair...to paraphrase my favorite line from "Mask", if we'd have dug a grave every time she said she was quitting the biz, we'd be drinking fecking tea in China right now! ;~) And I forget who posted about her 'muse', but that was right on as well. When the muse strikes, there are no business considerations. At least there haven't been in the past with Joni (the 80's notwithstanding). Speaking of those 80's releases...I'm MOST thrilled by the 'bonus tracks' these re-releases will have. Can't wait! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 15:02:45 "GMT" From: "relayer211@aol.com" Subject: Take the Words Can Heal Pledge I just saw a great idea on the web. WordscanHeal.org is trying to get 100,000 people to take a pledge to try and use their words for constructive purposes. Check it out for yourself at http://www.wordscanheal.org/takethepledge.htm - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.wordscanheal.org - See It's already working ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:08:17 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: This Just In!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a quiet Saturday morning here in Athens, but I've finished it....a new song about Jonifest 2001! I wish there was someone I could play it for but alas, everybody is so far away...of course, you could always book a flight and come knock on my door ;~}...it occurred to me this past weekend that here I had written a song about California and one about New Orleans but that there really needed to be a song about Boston&Topsfield, Plum Island, etc...so quite magically it has manifested itself. I will post the lyrics soon but I will tell you that it is called "Parsonage Lane" and that it is written in a tuning of E B F# E G# B, which from what I can tell is a tuning Joni has never used. Special thanks to all the incredible musicians for the inspiration, especially Jeff Clark and Les Ross..such fine guitar work you do, and to Kakki for suggesting I write a song about Plum Island, to Joni Mitchell, and most of all to Ashara who makes it all possible. I know I wouldn't be writing in these wacky tunings if it wasn't for these jonifests! More to come... Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Velveteen rabbits and moonbeams, Come when you lay down your head. While you are sleeping, they kiss you and tell you, That you are the reason the sun lights the sky." Scarlet-V. Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 18:34:10 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: The Three Great Stimulants Now that this Middle East debate is nearing the end, so it seems, I would like to conclude with some Joni quotes. Stay tuned I'll make it short. First, I wish to clarify a couple of points, for the record: * The word "antisemitism" was deliberately coined in 1879 by Wilhelm Marr, an anti-Jewish racist in Germany, to replace the term judenhass, Jew-hatred, which had gone out of favor. It has always, and only, been used to describe hatred and discrimination directed at Jews. Attempts to eradicate the plain meaning of the word (by saying it applies to arabs who are also semites) are anti-semantic, to say the least. * To criticize policies of the Government of Israel-or of any country-is legitimate, even vital; indeed as a democratic state many Israelis do just that. I'm not accusing anybody who criticizes Israel of being anti-semitic. Actually even my wife and other close relatives disagree with Israeli politics. But there is a profound difference between criticizing a country, and denying its right to exist. Anti-Zionism, the denial of Jews the basic right to a home, is nothing but antisemitism, pure and simple. As Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. wrote (see his speech in JMDL #387, NJC). I joined this list to discuss JONI and any other topic with people with whom I share this passion. However, if I see anti-semitism here or elsewhere then I'll expose the racists for what they are, as I'm sure Joni would do herself. * The conflict between Jews and Palestinians is political and territorial, not racial nor religious. Attempts to turn a political issue into a racial one undermine the chances of resolutions. The religious arguments which I've posted (about Jerusalem not being mentioned in the Koran) were there to counter the other side which in my opinion manipulates not only Palestinian children but also the world media into making this whole conflict a religious (and therefore racist) war and not what it is: a political and territorial conflict. Song for Sharon: I met a revisionist at a party this summer. His main supporting arguments to his claims were that some Jew was himself a nazi (?), and that some other Jews were anti-Zionists, dija vu in recent JMDL debates? Regarding the snakebite URL which Azeem refers to as being just "another viewpoint", one of its recurring source used as justification is a book written by Jewish sounding name authors. Could very well be, I haven't read it. The whole thing sounds like Joni's Snakebite Evangelists on DED to me. Remember "The Protocol of Zion"? What makes me sick is more and more uninformed people, Joni fans in this case, are falling for it. In short, it's no coincidence that Joni started her Amnesty International show with: Artifice and innocence (I'm the) exhausted one Oh these changing times Change in the heart of all mankind Oh these troubled times Then: Land of snap decisions Land of short attention spans Nothing is savored Long enough To really understand In every culture in decline The watchful ones among the slaves Know all that's genuine will be Scorned and conned and cast away Dog eat dog People looking, seeing nothing Dog eat dog People listening, hearing nothing ..... Dog eat dog Knowing nothing Dog eat dog Finally, I would like to thank Clark for his nice letter which, by a twist of fate, appeared in the same JMDL 387 as my post of Dr Martin Luther King. This wonderful letter allows me to simply refer you to Dr. M.L. King's speech and rest my case. Before I leave, I would like to encourage the "innocent" closet Jews to remain watchful and not to be fooled by "snakebite evangelists". If I've opened anybody's eyes to the snakebite manipulative techniques during these debates, then I've accomplished something here. Love, Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 13:26:32 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: In Search of Chilihead He was Chilihead2@aol.com, but I haven't heard from him in ages. Best Paz on 9/7/01 4:05 PM, Mark Domyancich at mark@jmdl.com wrote: > Apologies to my own NJCers and to the regular list, but Chili - if > you're still on this list, could you email me back? I have a very > special gift for you. > > Thanks, > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:44:59 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: some real joni news well said kate: <> i agree with kate's statement, and sometimes i find joni's bitterness 'over-the-top'...and i'm not sure the rocker victim she blasted in the restaurant deserved such a blast...she laughs about it...but it seems like a blind spot to me... ....too coveting at times....so she chucks her greater contribution of music...kakki and i talked about this in LA, finding agreement that we just don't believe her when she claims music is her lesser thing...imho, having studied art history, attended emily carr college of art, painted sometimes, visited joni's mendel exhibit, and purchased art works of canadians such as max bates and illingworth kerr, well....how can i put this delicately? there are none in the world who can vie with her music and lyrics, but, let's face it....there are hundreds of painters who can vie and exceed her in painting inspiration... ...with joni's numerous refrains that its the other way around, well as she sings somewhere... "i don't believe her"... she is a very talented painter...i love some of her paintings more than most works of art...but its a part of humility to accept where your true greatness lies... she's known alot of jazz players...anyone who, as i have, performed with them, knows that there are hundreds if not thousands of incredibly talented jazz musicians who will never ever reach a tenth of the fame and wealth of joni....but long ago they accepted that, in dedication to their muse...in calgary alone (nearing 1 million pop), i can name a dozen jazz artists who are world level skilled, but will remain unknown for the rest of their lives.... i belong to an association tied to the inspiration of 'gratefulness', in the belief that the practice of it transforms one's life and world...rejection has been my daily bread, but i believe i am called to continually show gratitude nonetheless for the privilege of love...that's what its all about...many will not gain the whole world, but will grow towards this universal love... an invitation to check out 'gratefulness' (non-sectarian): http://gratefulness.org shane www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 21:29:50 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants At least you got honest and to the point. I knew form the very biginning that you considered those of us who dared to disagree with you to be racist and anti-jew. I know Sharon is a jew, I know myself well, I know Azeem reasonably well and Carlton also-none of us a racist. By painting us as such you show yourself to be a fool of the first order. This last post of yourse show very clearly why thetre is trouble not juts in Israel but the world over. It comes from people labelling those that disagree with them as bad people. shame on you. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 21:31:28 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: anne heche's wedding More to the point, did she invite Ellen? Matron of Honour? Still Ellen hardly needs Anne to raise HER profile now does she? Robert Holliston wrote: > Greetings to all, > I hope this hasn't been mentioned already since it isn't exactly > earth-rocking news, but reports of Anne Heche's recent wedding have the > bride walking down the aisle as a pianist plays Joni's A Case of You. > No mention of a vocalist, which is probably just as well. "I could drink a > case of you" is one thing, but I don't know how comfortable I'd be if I were > about to be married and some singer was warning me as I walked down the > aisle: "Be Prepared To Bleed!" > > A Joni-lite post from > Roberto > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:05:04 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: Dylan@MSG A friend in NY sent this down the line to me: *BOB DYLAN at MADISON SQUARE GARDEN in NEW YORK Tickets on sale: 9/10/2001 12:00 PM *Event Date: 11/19/2001{[]** Ticket Price: $34.00-$64.00 *Ticket Link: http://events.ticketmaster.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eKls0CZ8Dv0FaJ0NFZ0A2 YAY on the Joni cd news! Keep the Jonifest tales coming. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:06:52 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: sorry ok, i know there was no Joni content there, but i thought some of the Joni-only's might want to know that. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 14:32:50 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Subject: some real Joni news Kate Bennett wrote: > However, her statement that she is giving up songwriting because of the > climate upsets me. I don't think the songwriting muse gives a hoot about > what is happening in business. The songwriting muse compells you to write > with no concern of the market unless you are that kind of writer. It seems like kind of a contradiction to give the kid a lecture about conformity in his music, which he rightly points out she has never even heard, and then use the worst of the commercial music world as an excuse not to create something original herself. I think probably the best artists are full of contradiction, and it gives them a drive to create. But beneath her explanation, I too wonder if there are other reasons for her haitus. I would guess that when she signed to Reprise this last time, there was something in her contract that said "I can do anything I want". She has that power and sports the attitude "I can always give this up and be a painter". It could be a way of pressuring the record company to push her music more, or she could be having writer's block, or maybe she really does just want to paint. But the music biz goes in cycles. There are some who predict the return of the singer/songwriter again. Yes, because when it does, she should be, as she always has been, at the forefront. I agree that even if she never writes another song, she has left a staggering volume of work. If you look at the dates on the albums, she put out one each year right up to Mingus, at least. Back then, they all did, the Beatles (two per year), Dylan, Hendrix, etc... Nowadays big artists release one CD every three years. Who knows, Joni is always full of surprises. For now, we can look forward to the coming 24 song set. RR > I can see her not wanting to deal with touring & promotion & all that > entails but I don't think that is what she is talking about since she is > still producing records. Maybe she has written some things that her record > company has criticized. I wonder if she is bound by a contract? Does she > know people are out there doing it on their own, doing what they want, > making & selling incredible music? She has always been with a record > company...that reality seems to be limiting her view right now & it is a > shame. > > Of course I do believe she is entitled to follow her muse wherever it leads > her & that she has left us with so much great music already. Maybe it is > just that she would rather paint right now. > > But the music biz goes in cycles. There are some who predict the return of > the singer/songwriter again. Let's hope her musical inspiration to write > songs returns. > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 19:48:47 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants In a message dated 08/09/01 17:27:25 GMT Daylight Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: << Before I leave, I would like to encourage the "innocent" closet Jews to remain watchful and not to be fooled by "snakebite evangelists". If I've opened anybody's eyes to the snakebite manipulative techniques during these debates, then I've accomplished something here. Love, Laurent >> This is the most breathtakingly arrogant post I've ever seen on this list. I'm speechless. Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 01:41:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants I have to ask you yet again to please not send mail to me. I don't want it. For the record, I don't think you are bad, have never said you are. i think a good look at yourself and your harrassment of people with whom you disagree would be of help to you but i know that will fall on deaf ears. So please, no more mail. And just in case you have poor eyesight NO MORE MAIL. MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/01 1:21:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > > << . It comes from people labelling those that disagree with them as bad > people. >> > > Look whos talking. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 18:16:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: The jmdl underground hi. we are the jmdl underground. you don't know us. nor are we interested in letting you know who we are. there was a time when we were living among you but even then we knew we were not made to share your warm sunlight fresh air red wine and sweet freedom. we had to hide behind locked doors under false names. we had to send our children to far away schools and spend our weekends in bed. we knew that each moment could be our last one. we were waiting for the knock on the door. we lost our friends our jobs our faith. there was no spark in our eyes. not a smile on our faces. we knew it was time to leave our lives behind and vanish. and so we did. we left your world and went to live underground with the maggots. there were times when we couldn't even speak to eachother for the fear of trusting anyone was much too risky. but we had no choice. we had us and nothing more. we began healing eachother. we taught eachother how to grow our own food. we were 6 feet under your pavments but we were free. we were safe at last. we began sharing ideas and thoughts and feelings that for many years were kept as a dark secret. we no longer had to bow our heads and fear our neighbors. we had a world of our own to live in and this world is where we are now. we're very happy here at the jmdl underground. we use the methods you've given us in order to talk to eachother knowing that whatever the key you press may be you'll never find out what we are talking about. we exploit the list you've inveted for our own needs knowing that however hard you'll try listening to us you'll never hear a thing. we study the information you share with eachother and do with it as we please knowing that no matter what strings you pull you'll never hunt us again. we help our friends who are still hiding in your world in any way we can to free their minds and join us here at the amazing joni bitchell underground list and every now and then we griev the ones that were lost and gone. we no longer desire to go back. this is our home. (dedicated to all the wonderful wonderful wonderful women and men who still have to write to eachother private messages and not to the whole list in fear of being treated like weirdoes or joni enemies and especialy to those who wrote me after my last mail. you know who you are and you know you're the best. if you feel it's too late for you to write to the whole list every now and then all those outstanding and witty and oh so funny mails you do - please go on writing to me and to all the "you know who you are" friends we have here. you're not alone, you'll never be alone, and i love you more than you can imagine) nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 23:19:56 -0500 From: "William Waddell" Subject: In the sky turning into a butterfly Since the Tops Fest, I've been looking forward to writing my thanks to everyone. I spent the week in New York and managed to attend the Sampras/Agassi match in the AAshe Stadium on Wednesday night. So just tonight after the V&S Williams' match I decided to get writing; tho you've all pretty much said it all already. On opening up my email, I got the news that one of my old friends I knew in Indonesia had died this morning. Kim was Canadian and he and I had a lot in common, especially Joni and Bob. It was always great having him around coz he would always want to hear Woodstock amongst other Joni. I was going to write to him and tell him how much he would have loved the Fest, but alas ... There's so much I want to say but so much going round in my head I can't focus, so I'll just sign off till later. Again, thanks to everyone at the Fest "just for being so much like you are". Great memories. William _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:29:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: some real joni news Hi Shane, Jony can't possibly shut off her creativity from the music side - it's always going to be there whether she chooses to follow it through or not. However, maybe she has lost the desire to do the work to fulfill it. Or maybe working on this next project may reinvigorate her again. Guess we'll just have to see (and wish!). Thanks for the thoughts on gratefulness from you and Kate. Without it we are somewhat empty, I think. Kakki, off to drag Hell through the bowels of Hollywood in a little while ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 00:32:57 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: The Three Great Stimulants At 01:41 AM 9/9/01 +0100, colin wrote: >I have to ask you yet again to please not send mail to me. I don't want it. >For the record, I don't think you are bad, have never said you are. i think a >good look at yourself and your harrassment of people with whom you disagree >would be of help to you but i know that will fall on deaf ears. >So please, no more mail. And just in case you have poor eyesight NO MORE >MAIL. You have my sympathies. It's like getting felt up on public transportation. - -jan ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #277 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?