From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #250 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, August 16 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 250 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: August 15 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: August 15 [les@jmdl.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #348 [colin ] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] joni sings while she shops ["shane mattison" ] NUVO and Bravo and Catching Heaven [Leslie Mixon ] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! [Scott Price ] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Best of the 80s? [Don Rowe ] Re: Best of the 80s? [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Best of the 80s? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Best of the 80s? [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Best of the 80s? [FMYFL@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #348 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Best of the 80s? [Fauchja@aol.com] Re: Best of the 80s? [colin ] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! [Randy Remote ] Re: Best of the 80s? (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] RE: Best of the 80s? ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! [Michael Paz ] Re: Best of the 80s? [] Best of the 80's [KJHSF@aol.com] Party in The YAHOO chat room [Michael Paz ] Re: Best of the 80s? ["Kakki" ] Re: Happy Birthday Croz! ["hell" ] Re: Best of the 80s? ["hell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:24:04 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: August 15 On August 15 in Joni Mitchell History: 1974: Tonight Joni performs the third of five nights in a row at the Universal Amphitheater in Universal City, California. The recordings from these five dates end up as the material for the Miles Of Aisles album, released 3 months later. - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:24:04 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: August 15 On August 15 these articles were published: 2000: "Publisher fights to get Joni book" - CBC News (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000815cbc.cfm 2000: "Time to hear both sides now?" - Toronto Globe and Mail (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000816tgam.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 627 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:37:04 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #348 > One of my majors was religious studies...i remember learning that all of the > major religions believed in reincarnation...except christianity... as far as I understand it, there were referneces to reincarnation in the books of the bible until they were removed. there is still a reference in one of the gospels-Jesus saying that John the Baptist had been elijah(now I maye have got the names wrong but not the gist) > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:14:10 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! <> I really enjoyed reading David Crosby's autobiography. Some of it was tough to take because of its harsh honesty in dealing with his addiction problems, but I gained a deeper appreciation of him. His voice has ALWAYS been a thing of wonder. The way he can harmonize instinctively and knows exactly where a melody is going, plus throws in harmonic notes that you wouldn't ordinarily think about... And his love & respect for Joni is VERY evident (why do you refer to it as 'prickly'?), everytime he introduces "Yvette in English" or "For Free" in concert, he gushes about how great a writer she is and gives her the "lion's share" of the writing credit for "Yvette". I'd love to see Joni work with some other GOOD composers (Larry Klein not included), I think it might stimulate her in a way that she has been unable to do on her own for awhile. So who would be some good contenders? Personally, I would love to hear some collaborations between Joni and Elvis Costello. Bob NP: Hal Frazier, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:20:21 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: joni sings while she shops its the little things i like... apparently, (according to some gossiper named ted casablanca), joni sings while she shops...: <> as joni was before me, i was a salesperson at sears...now this is the kind of customer that can make your day... woke up, it was a chelsea morning... shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:00:13 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: NUVO and Bravo and Catching Heaven I was contacted by Nuvo magazine last year for permission to use one of my photos of Joni and Vince Mendoza in this article. My contact there notes: "The Joni Mitchell story is slated to run in our Autumn 2001 Issue, due for release September 20, therefore your photo will be there." Tune in tonight for Part Six of this compelling, eight part series that chronicles modern music history from Irving Berlin to The Beatles, Britney Spears. Part six looks at the musical upheaval of the early Seventies and the emergence of such singer-songwriters as James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, Carole King and Jackson Browne. Showing 7pm and 11pm, EST. I picked up an interesting looking novel last weekend at the thrift store. Lo and behold I'm reading page 7: "But she'd slept fitfully in the double motel bed, waking up again and again to stare into the darkness that encased her, while Joni Mitchell mourned that the bed was too big, the frying pan too wide." The name of the book is "Catching Heaven" by Sands Hall. Sitting here with the impending doom of this afternoon's root canal. Yuck! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:59:44 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! At 08:14 AM 8/15/01 EDT, SCJoniGuy wrote: >And his love & respect for Joni is VERY evident (why do you refer to it as 'prickly'?) Hi Bob, From what I've seen Crosby has been much quicker and more vocal about singing Joni's praises than she has about him. Croz's quoted comments about Joni from the past few years have been nothing but superlative. She, however, seems to be much less forthcoming with compliments when it comes to acknowledging Croz's talents. The word that sticks out for me is "tailgater." Joni readily credits Crosby with helping her to get started in the "biz" by lending his name as producer on STAS, but I think she feels he may have tried to take too much credit for her career and success. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:37:11 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! <> I guess I just never picked up on that...from the interviews I've heard, the writing of "Yvette" (mostly via fax machine) was an enjoyable experience for her, and a positive one. OTOH, how intimidating would it be (even if you're someone of Croz' talent and renown) to write a song with Joni?...sorta like challenging Michael Jordan to a little one-on-one... "Well, Joan, you've got some nice things in here, but I'll have to add a bit of polish to it..." :~D Bob NP: Talking Heads, "(Nothing But)Flowers" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Best of the 80s? Okay, we've talked down Joni's 80s catalog until we're blue in the face, and we in the DEDMAS (that's the "Dog Eat Dog Musical Appreciation Society" for you newcomers!) are out of breath running wind-sprints to the defense. But it always seems like we look at the "Unholy Trinity" comparatively ... and judge it by what came before & after. Rarely, if ever, have we looked at WTRF, DED & CMIARS on their own. So lets! ;-) Which of those 3 80s albums do YOU think is the best? The worst? Why? Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:20:51 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? In a message dated 15/08/01 18:40:52 GMT Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << Rarely, if ever, have we looked at WTRF, DED & CMIARS on their own. So lets! ;-) Which of those 3 80s albums do YOU think is the best? The worst? Why? >> Honest to goodness Don, I don't think any of them are much cop, and by that I don't only mean by Joni's standards. I think DED gets my vote for the best of that bunch as it has the most good songs and the fewest clunkers, and has a strong, feisty spirit to it. I still think Good Friends could and should have been a hit, though it's a comparative throwaway. Ethiopia is the best song for me, Tax Free is very fine. The production is pretty horrible, though. Chalk Mark has a shocking number of duff songs. Reoccurring Dream, Dancing Clown and Snakes & Ladders are especially weak. The sound is quite pleasing, though bland. My Secret Place is beautiful, though. Wild Things is for me the weakest. Take away the first and last songs (I've said this before: Chinese Cafe is the one true classic on these three) and I'm left with a forgettable album. The bog-standard LA production is downright depressing. It's a shame, as her voice was sounding superb at this time. Azeem in London NP: Memphis Slim - Legend of the Blues Vol 1 - vintage stuff from a true gentleman, a good old-fashioned mono vinyl record from 1969 ( I didn't buy it then, I was only 4 :-) I had the privilege of meeting Slim, one of two great American Bluesmen I met, the other being Champion Jack Dupree. Ah, memories... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:22:30 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? <> Wild Things Run Fast <> Chalkmark In A Rainstorm <> This one's a bit of a longer answer! ;~) Like you said, Don, it's important to put them in context. Prior to WTRF, her previous STUDIO record was Mingus, which alienated almost all of her audience, lost her radio airplay, sales, etc. She wanted to bridge the gap and try and re-establish herself, so she put out an extremely accessible collection of great songs, and just to make sure people would like it, she kicked it off with one of her finest compositions (Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody). In my mind this record has a couple BOFFO songs (Chinese Cafe, Love, Be Cool, Moon At The Window), and the rest are solid. The "Weakest Link": Ladies Man, and even this one's pretty nice! Dog Eat Dog was welcomed at first because it seemed like forever since she'd released a record. I remember hearing clips from it on NPR and going to get it that same day. I enjoyed it a lot, but some of the "sounds" didn't seem to suit Joni, like she was trying to wear somebody else's clothes. She co-wrote a couple songs with Klein, and they're both rotten (musically). Some great songs here, but they're overproduced and synthsized such that the soul is gone from them. Now it mostly sounds like a relic, and certainly doesn't offer any of the depth of Joni's 60's, 70's & 90's work. The boffo's: Three Great Stimulants, Ethiopia, Impossible Dreamer The weakest links: everything else CMIARS: Well, what can you say...the 80's were not kind to lots of good artists, and Joni didn't dodge the bullet. CMIARS is mostly dreadful, in my mind easily the worst record she's ever done by a million miles. SO desperate to try and curry favor with the record-buying public, she brings in Don Henley, Peter Gabriel (their duet works rather nicely, actually, but the song itself is unmemorable), Willie Nelson, Tom Petty, and Billy Idol in the embarrasingly bad Dancin' Clown. If latin music had been in, she (or Klein) would have drug in Ricky Martin or some such to duet with her as well. CMAIRS' saving grace: Beat of Black Wings The rest of this one is REALLY forgettable... Of course, we all know the happy ending to the unholy 80's trio; the next trio! Bob NP: Talking Heads, "Happy Day" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:48:04 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? In a message dated 8/15/01 1:40:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << Which of those 3 80s albums do YOU think is the best?> My vote would definitely be WTRF. Why? Because there's not a song on the album that I don't like. They're all great songs imo. The worst? >> CMIARS is my least favorite of the 3. Why? Unless I'm in the right mood, I usually skip over "Dancin Clown", "Snakes and Ladders", and "The Reoccuring Dream". I do love "My Secret Place". No lengthy explanation. Just what I like and don't like (very much). Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:53:31 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? In a message dated 8/15/01 2:23:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: << Chalk Mark has a shocking number of duff songs. Reoccurring Dream, Dancing Clown and Snakes & Ladders are especially weak. The sound is quite pleasing, though bland. My Secret Place is beautiful, though. >> LOL Azeem!!! I hadn't read your post before I sent mine. I didn't mean to write almost the same thing that you did. At least we had our album choices in a different order :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:00:31 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #348 yes i remember that too colin ...john being elijah gonna have to dig out my old textbooks... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:38:08 EDT From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? Best of the 80"s WTRF - I love "Love", "Underneath the Streetlamp", and "Man to Man". worst - CMIARS too many different voices to suit me. (e.g. TP, BI, WN etc.,) DED is close to WTRF, but not quite. FTD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:29:02 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? > Which of those 3 80s albums do YOU think > is the best? easy. DED! 2nd WTRF and last CMIARS. > The worst? Why? cos I like DED, think WTRF is like the curate's egg and dislike CMIARS because nothing on it grabs me cept maybe Lakota. > > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i 940,860,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:21:55 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > I'd love to see Joni work with some other GOOD composers (Larry Klein not included), I think it might stimulate her in a way that she has been unable to do on her own for awhile. > > So who would be some good contenders? Personally, I would love to hear some collaborations between Joni and Elvis Costello. Elvis would be interesting, for sure. Or how about someone like Paul McCartney or Burt Bacharach, after all, she doesn't need any help in the lyric dept., and they usually do. Better yet, go for sophistication with a Brazilian composer, maybe Caetano Veloso. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:10:09 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? (md) Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm is the only Joni album that i have not bought. I keep hearing these comments such as those made by Azeem. Not motivating to say the least. Personally I have chalked Jonis art in the 80s tho three things. She was changing from a chik to a mature woman but in the process she was sliding down the slippery slope of boredom and writers block. happens to the best. She began to listen to too many outside influences. Things changed dramatically in the 80s in the music business in every way. Evereything from the equipment to production values to her personal life and judging from the material she had really changed and IMHO drifted into a limbo of ambivalence only to be confroonted by her contractural demqands of the record company. In her prior stuff she is the protagonist. In her 80s stuff she is being tossed on a sea of forces. I think she writes in Good friends about being in an auto accident which was her dental problem and the physical infirmaties. Amids! t that she is tossed around in l ove, haggling with geffen hangover, and in general being bummed out about what was going on in the world (Three Great Stimulants). It is not suprising to me that Joni went through the Horse Lattitudes of creativity. the production values suffer as she tries to supplant personal creativity with other peoples creativity which just doesnt ring true to experienced Joniphiles ears. yet of course some will defend the works in various ways. WTRf doesnt do a thing for me outside of Chinese Cafe and furthermore sounds like an album in which sparks of production ideas were attempted to comprise entire song fabrics. It doesnt work for me at all. But having said that its all part of the big picture of the total body of her work. I can easily accept that. When they make a movie about her life this part will focus on her life as opposed to her music. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:32:40 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Best of the 80s? Number three is easy - CMIARS. The absolute nadir of Joni's career, IMO (at least, I fervently hope so! Her career ain't done). Ditto previous posts on the overproduction, too many guest appearances, and let me point out the lazy and uninspired lyrics. I don't own the CD. For the other two, it's a real tough call, but this week DED comes out on top, I think. There are some lovely songs buried in that crappy production - I like the title track, Good Friends, Impossible Dreamer, Lucky Girl and even Fiction. When I heard live versions of Three Great Stimulants, I longed for Joni to re-record this entire album. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:13:22 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! I LOVE Caetano Veloso. I got to work with him once here in New Orleans the same year Joni did the Gavin Convention show at the Hyatt Regency here. Paz on 8/15/01 3:21 PM, Randy Remote at guitarzan@saber.net wrote: > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > >> I'd love to see Joni work with some other GOOD composers (Larry Klein not >> included), I think it might stimulate her in a way that she has been unable >> to do on her own for awhile. >> >> So who would be some good contenders? Personally, I would love to hear some >> collaborations between Joni and Elvis Costello. > > Elvis would be interesting, for sure. Or how about someone like > Paul McCartney or Burt Bacharach, after all, she doesn't need any > help in the lyric dept., and they usually do. Better yet, go for > sophistication with a Brazilian composer, maybe Caetano Veloso. > RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:36:28 +0100 From: Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? > Which of those 3 80s albums do YOU think is the best? The > worst? Why? >> > Of these great three I'd pick Chalkmark In A Rainstorm (I love that title too). I think it came out the same week as Tunnel Of Love, another under appreciated masterwork. Anyway, it starts off with four of her best ever tracks and if you skip Dancing Clown you get six brilliant tracks in a row. Snakes And Ladders is a good little song too with some interesting rhythms All great pop albums have dud tracks, (hint - Sgt Pepper and Pet Sounds. ) and this one has 2. So what ! The other two don't get near the greatness of Chalkmark and are about equal. I never liked Ethiopia. I felt that she was coming in late on the Geldof/ Live Aid act. I like her to lead not follow. WTRF was a really strong record apart from the attempted rockers Wild Things and You're So Square. They're typical of that clueless west coast approach to studio rock. She should have asked Neil Young for help in the rockin department. Chinese Cafe, Ladies Man, Moon, and Love are all top tunes. Philip NP something jazzy on Giles Peterson's show ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:11:19 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Best of the 80's No one has mentioned the tune Number One from CMIARS. I thought this was beautifully mixed, and Joni's multi-layered vocal harmonics are clean and tighter than ever. Not to mention that it's one of her most lyrically biting commentaries on the whole fame game. "Will they shower you with flowers or will they shun ya when your race is run?" Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:36:42 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Party in The YAHOO chat room come to the JoniFest2001 Chatroom there is a party going on. Drinks are on Rosalita Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:04:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? First we hear that Larry Klein's name is really Don Rowe, then we hear from Marcel that Larry Klein's name is really L.A. Music Mafia Production Values and now we hear Larry Klein's real name is Clueless West Coast Approach to Studio Rock. That Larry Klein is one powerful dude ;-) Kakki Philip wrote: > WTRF was a really strong record apart from the attempted rockers Wild Things > and You're So Square. They're typical of that clueless west coast > approach to studio rock. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:14:56 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Croz! Bob wrote: > I really enjoyed reading David Crosby's autobiography. Some of it > was tough to take because of its harsh honesty in dealing with his > addiction problems, but I gained a deeper appreciation of him. His > voice has ALWAYS been a thing of wonder. The way he can > harmonize instinctively and knows exactly where a melody is going, > plus throws in harmonic notes that you wouldn't ordinarily think about... He does have an amazing ear for harmony. He also does it differently from almost anyone else. He kind of drifts around very subtley, so you hardly notice he's there, but when you take him away, you notice the "hole". It's actually quite amazing to listen to any CSN track with 3-part harmony and try and listen for the different voices. Stills and Nash are pretty easy to pick, but Crosby is really elusive. I thought it was high praise when Crosby said (on the CSNY list) that the Indigo Girls have great harmonies. They do, but to hear someone like Cros say it is quite a compliment! > I'd love to see Joni work with some other GOOD composers (Larry > Klein not included), I think it might stimulate her in a way that she has > been unable to do on her own for awhile. > So who would be some good contenders? Personally, I would love to > hear some collaborations between Joni and Elvis Costello. OK, I have a confession. I do not like Elvis Costello at all. I think his voice is awful, very "nasal" and whiney - it really grates on me. If I hear him singing, I have to turn it off immediately, it gets on my nerves so much! I seriously don't see why he's so highly rated - I don't really even like his writing style. I'm not sure who I'd like to see Joni collaborate with - I don't really think she needs anyone else. And to be honest, I think her ego would get in the way of a true collaboration, and it would all end in tears - not Joni's! Hell - donning the asbestos underpants once more, and waiting for the flames to begin..... ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:22:41 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Best of the 80s? Deb wrote: > Number three is easy - CMIARS. The absolute nadir of Joni's career, IMO (at > least, I fervently hope so! Her career ain't done). Ditto previous posts on > the overproduction, too many guest appearances, and let me point out the > lazy and uninspired lyrics. I don't own the CD. > > For the other two, it's a real tough call, but this week DED comes out on > top, I think. There are some lovely songs buried in that crappy > production - I like the title track, Good Friends, Impossible Dreamer, Lucky > Girl and even Fiction. When I heard live versions of Three Great Stimulants, > I longed for Joni to re-record this entire album. Which pretty much sums it up for me too, although I'd give DED higher praise. I love this album. I just don't hear all the "bad production" etc. that everyone else talks about. But then I don't analyse music to the same extent that I know some on this list do. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do that, but I never have. I've always been more into the lyrics than the music, and DED has some brilliant lyrics. CMIARS I play very rarely. I just don't like it that much. WTRF was the first Joni album I really heard properly and I've loved it ever since, so it has a special place. So in order, DED, followed closely by WTRF, with CMIARS limping along in last place, and holding up the medal ceremony because it's taking so damn long to cross the finish line. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #250 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?