From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #241 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 8 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 241 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: August 7 [les@jmdl.com] Birth Control [Gordon Mackie ] RE: Joni's rhymes ["Deb Messling" ] Re: How Do you stop....where do you start? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] boomtang boys [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: was [Fwd: Re: "Ape"-alled] vljc - now new bands [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni's rhymes [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's rhymes [Randy Remote ] Raised on Robbery ["shane mattison" ] Carey cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Saskatchewan Legislature ["shane mattison" ] And put them in a tree museum ["shane mattison" ] Re: Carey cover ["shane mattison" ] Re: Carey cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: And put them in a tree museum ["Kakki" ] Re: And put them in a tree museum [Randy Remote ] Tom Waits (minimal jc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Tom Waits (minimal jc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni, bjork, Walden Woods [Lazyasz@aol.com] We need your help! [Lazyasz@aol.com] Joni's rhymes ["kerry" ] Re: Chapter Three [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Joni's rhymes - Almost Famous ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: How do you stop. [johnirving ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 03:29:43 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: August 7 On August 7 in Joni Mitchell History: 1994: Joni reappears onstage on the last day of the Edmonton Folk Festival to sing one song with a group named Quartet. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Edmonton94.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:00:24 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Birth Control Checked the sheet music for 'How Do you Stop' yesterday.. and have to agree with Kakki...that baby was being born even then (1986). Snot a Joni lyric at all. A Mitchell- free zone all round..except she does sing it well and I'm sure like any singer worth their salt, she brought her own life experince to bear on her interpretation. 'He comes for constipation' was a story about.....zzzzzzz I feel a competition coming on ..... More later..... Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:12:37 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Joni's rhymes OTOH, I can think of instances where she overlooks the obvious rhyme in favor of a word she likes better. (Emily Dickinson did the same thing). An early version of A Case of You has her rhyming "live in a box of paints" with "drawn to those ones that ain't." In the recorded version, she adds the word "afraid," which blows the meter as well as the rhyme, but clarifies the meaning. Actually, to change the subject, I like the FIRST version of the song, with the line "and I'm scared to death by saints." Me too! > Notice the way Joni uses words, even sometimes mispronouncing them to make > the rhyme work. Like in Don't Interrupt > the Sorrow, clandestine she uses in > conjunction with wine, when the correct > (according to the dictionary) way would > be to couple it with win, or sin. > - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:49:07 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: How Do you stop....where do you start? <> Thanks for clearing that up, Kakki...like I said, it wasn't something I had noticed, and I've heard the JB version many times. Also, it doesn't feel like Joni's lyric a'tall... Bob NP: Becker/Fagen, "Ida Lee" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: boomtang boys there's a very sweet and cool version of both sides now by a dance group named boomtang boys which i've found on the audiogalaxy's mp3. try to load it if you can and have fun. cio. nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:15:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: was [Fwd: Re: "Ape"-alled] vljc - now new bands - --- "Brenda J. Walker" > > > > Train - Drops Of Jupiter (massive, or so we are > told, in the US of late, > > it's nothing new but still a very pleasing > collection of soft-rock with > > occasional rusitc touches, as on the gorgeous > Mississippi). > > I agree; it is very derivative and not my particular > cup of tea. It has > sold platinum and has been in the top 20 since the > release in April which is > massive considering what the rest of the top 20 > looks like these days. > This Train song, Drops of Jupiter seems to be very popular here too and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Brenda, you put it very well by calling it "derivative". To me, it sounds like something from the 70s, or the type of song most bar bands would be doing back then - nothing particularly new or interesting about it at all. Given a choice,I'd rather listen to Destiny's Child! ;) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 09:42:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's rhymes <> Sue, I would say that Joni was strongly influenced by her teacher Mr. Kratzman, who would "red-line" her poetry and creative writing with the words CLICHE! all over it. I think the experience instilled in her the habit of looking for uncommon ways to say things, like sorrow instead of sadness, "Passport smiles" instead of "phony smiles", bending a word Ogden Nash-style to make it work in a rhyme scheme, etc. Yet she also knows when NOT to be overly metaphoric and flowery, and when the best line is the most direct: "All I really want to do right now is find another lover"... Bob NP: Becker/Fagen, "Barrytown" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:05:56 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Joni's rhymes >I would say that Joni was strongly influenced by her teacher Mr. Kratzman, who would "red-line" her poetry and creative writing with the words CLICHE! all over it. Thank goodness for teachers like Kratzman! There is something about her lyrics that I love and I know that originality is the biggest factor. Descriptiveness a close second. Is it due to the way she mixes directness with obscurity? Sue n.p. Led Zep - Dazed and Confused Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:29:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's rhymes <> It's all those things; it's the way she can take a lyric like the one I quoted from "Song For Sharon", and in the midst of describing her own experiences, throw in a line or 2 that makes it universal. There are lines that ONLY SHE could have written, just like only Steely Dan could have written: "I crawl like a viper through these suburban streets, Make love to these women, languid & bittersweet"...has anyone else ever used the word "languid" in a rock and roll song? That's why Hejira is so brilliant to me; Damn near EVERY WORD on it is so original. Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Josie", 6/3/00 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:17:20 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni's rhymes Deb Messling wrote: > OTOH, I can think of instances where she overlooks the obvious rhyme in > favor of a word she likes better. (Emily Dickinson did the same thing). An > early version of A Case of You has her rhyming "live in a box of paints" > with "drawn to those ones that ain't." In the recorded version, she adds > the word "afraid," which blows the meter as well as the rhyme, but clarifies > the meaning. Every time I hear this I want to tell her to leave off the word "afraid". It messes up a brilliant couplet. Everything else she has done lyrically is perfekt. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:55:09 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Raised on Robbery Virtual Saskatchewan has a list of famous saskabushers...and, guess what, they celebrate joni mitchell first - at the top of the list, with photo... they also add the fascinating tidbit that Raised on Robbery "was written in and about Regina's Empire Hotel"... now parts of downtown Regina can be pretty tacky...complete with roaming aboriginals "smashed on railray avenue"... it all makes sense that the tackiness described in Raised on Robbery would be a part of this setting... ...The Waltons' most recent album, full of prairie references, is also entitled "Empire Hotel"... ...to visit Virtual Saskatchewan's list where joni is 'number one' -and leave your comments: http://www.virtualsk.com/current_issue/saskatchewans_own.html shane http://www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:54:50 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Carey cover <> Shane, I hit her website and it doesn't look to me that there's a cover of Carey there...if I'm mistaken, please tell me. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:30:32 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Saskatchewan Legislature joni mitchell is cited as a proud example of the achievement of saskatchewan women on International Women's Day in the Provincial Legislature of Saskatchewan: Mr. Britton: -- Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it's a pleasure also for me also to stand in my place and speak on this motion, asking that the Assembly commit itself to further the equality and the well-being of women in Saskatchewan. International Women's Day has been so designated as an opportunity for people to reflect on the struggles that women have endured and the goals that women have achieved throughout the world. Saskatchewan is home to many successful women, Mr. Speaker, including I would say, the Lieutenant Governor and physicist, Sylvia Fedoruk; two Canadian . . . two-time Canadian curling champions, the Sandra Peterson team; former Governor General, Jeanne Sauve pi; author, Maggie Siggins; and singer, Joni Mitchell. Mr. Speaker, these are all Saskatchewanians but . . . well not a Saskatchewanian, we also saw the first woman prime minister in the history of Canada in Kim Campbell, which indicates, Mr. Speaker, the long, hard road that the women have fought does seem to be bearing fruit. And, Mr. Speaker, this is but a small example of the highly accomplished women who came from Saskatchewan. shane http://www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:12:37 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: And put them in a tree museum They took all the trees And put them in a tree museum And they charged all the people A dollar and a half just to see 'em we already knew about honolulu's royal hawaiian hotel being the pink hotel in joni's song Big Yellow Taxi... the news is that dave donelly, reporter for honolulu's Star-Bulletin, inform's us that: <<"Big Yellow Taxi," by the way, was written about Hawaii and the "tree museum" she sang about where they charged you to see the trees was Foster Garden ...>> new fees to see the trees?: Admission $5.00 - General, 13 years and older $3.00 - Resident of Hawaii, 13 years and older with ID $1.00 - Child, 6 to 12 years old FREE - Child, 5 years old and under (must be with adult) $25.00 - Annual family pass (May be used at Foster Botanical Garden and the Honolulu Zoo.) its gone up to 5 bucks just to see 'em, but yippy eye eh, you can see 'em for free at: oh boy aerial view: http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/fbgaeria.htm oh boy close ups: http://members.nbci.com/mblais/fosterbg.htm and jus' like joni said, they got "plans": oh boy master plan: http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/index.htm and as thomas merton pointed out, the first planted tree was only significant because it was planted by the mayor's daughter... shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:24:23 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Re: Carey cover its there bob... go to "scrapbook", then "video" that's where i snagged it for the bottom of my post...and here again... eileen's clip that hit: http://waycoolproductions.net/bjc/eileenmovie1.html eileen's real audio clip of carey (1): http://www.eileenlaverty.com/sets/sc_book/video/EL4.MPG eileen's real audio clip of carey (seg 2): http://www.eileenlaverty.com/sets/sc_book/video/EL3.MPG eileen's homepage: http://www.eileenlaverty.com/ good luck, guy shane - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:54 AM Subject: Carey cover > < Angels, complete with cover of joni's song Carey...>> > > Shane, > > I hit her website and it doesn't look to me that there's a cover of Carey there...if I'm mistaken, please tell me. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:35:34 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Carey cover I DID see those clips, but I don't see where a complete version of her cover is available...and it doesn't look like it's on her record... Maybe I'll send her an e-mail and turn on the ol' southern charm! ;~) Bob NP: Steppenwolf, "Jupiter's Child" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:23:48 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: And put them in a tree museum Shane, All these new details are great! I think you have become our official "Western Canada Joni Mitchell Reference Desk!" ;-) I hope your contributions are being added to the JMDL "Lyric Glossary" database. Kakki > <<"Big Yellow Taxi," by the way, was written about Hawaii and the "tree > museum" she sang about where they charged you to see the trees was Foster > Garden ...>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:05:50 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: And put them in a tree museum Shane, you just keep coming up with this cool stuff! You get the jonisleuth award! shane mattison wrote: > They took all the trees > And put them in a tree museum > And they charged all the people > A dollar and a half just to see 'em > > we already knew about honolulu's royal hawaiian hotel being the pink hotel in > joni's song Big Yellow Taxi... > the news is that dave donelly, reporter for honolulu's Star-Bulletin, inform's > us that: > <<"Big Yellow Taxi," by the way, was written about Hawaii and the "tree > museum" she sang about where they charged you to see the trees was Foster > Garden ...>> > new fees to see the trees?: > Admission > $5.00 - General, 13 years and older > $3.00 - Resident of Hawaii, 13 years and older with ID > $1.00 - Child, 6 to 12 years old > FREE - Child, 5 years old and under (must be with adult) > $25.00 - Annual family pass > (May be used at Foster Botanical Garden and the Honolulu Zoo.) > > its gone up to 5 bucks just to see 'em, but yippy eye eh, you can see 'em for > free at: > oh boy aerial view: > http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/fbgaeria.htm > oh boy close ups: > http://members.nbci.com/mblais/fosterbg.htm > and jus' like joni said, they got "plans": > oh boy master plan: > http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/parks/facility/foster/index.htm > and as thomas merton pointed out, the first planted tree was only significant > because it was planted by the mayor's daughter... > > shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:46:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Tom Waits (minimal jc) Just as I've always thought Van Morrison was the Irish male Joni, I thought Waits was the New York street character-walking-with-a-bottle-of-Jack-Daniels Joni. I found this link of Tom quotes and was surprised that so many of these originated with him ~ http://www.intercom.net/local/shore_journal/yas11015.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 16:26:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tom Waits (minimal jc) <> What a great list, Kakki...thanks for sending the URL along! And there's twice as many that didn't make the list, much like our "favorite Joni lyrics" thread...just goes on and on. Bob NPIMH: "Never could stand that dog..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:49:57 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Joni, bjork, Walden Woods Does anyone know of the existence of any kind of recording of this event. Particularly of Bjork and Joni duetting. I have the Stormy Weather CD itself but that one has no duets. I was wondering if you guys had any info? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:41:48 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: We need your help! Over at atforumz.com there is a grassroots effort to establish a Joni forum. This site already has forumz dedicated to artists like Kate Bush, Fiona Apple, Radiohead, and Tool. Just type in www.atforumz.com and scroll down a little to click on the Suggestions forum. Then click on the topic "A Joni Mitchell Forum". We need as many postive votes (i.e. 'yes I would post there frequently/yes I would visit occasionally) as possible. Tell your friends and neighbors, atforumz.com has a highly intelligent, literate, and patient community of music lovers who should be exposed to Joni. Thank you for your time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:31:31 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Joni's rhymes Bob wrote: >>It's all those things; it's the way she can take a lyric like the one I quoted from "Song For Sharon", and in the midst of describing her own experiences, throw in a line or 2 that makes it universal. There are lines that ONLY SHE could have written, just like only Steely Dan could have written: >>"I crawl like a viper through these suburban streets, >>Make love to these women, languid & bittersweet"...has anyone else ever used the word "languid" in a rock and roll song? I always felt this way about Joni's use of "incendiary" in Come In From The Cold. How many times do you hear THAT word in a song? Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 22:04:58 -0400 From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Re: Chapter Three I'm in Virginia for a very HOT visit with family; I will put the chapter in the mail to you when I'm back in New York on Friday! Hope you're staying cool -- - -- Emily - ----- Original Message ----- From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) Date: Sunday, August 5, 2001 3:00 am Subject: JMDL Digest V2001 #331 > I'm sure that I could, in theory, open your attachment, but given > the > stresses of moving, detaching computers, changing e-mail > addresses, > phone numbers, citizenship (whatever!), I wonder if you couldn't > just > send me a copy by snail mail. Try this address: Department of > Comparative Literature, Princeton University, 91 Prospect Avenue, > Princeton 08544. Many thanks for your indulgence. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Emily Kirk Gray" > Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:32 pm > Subject: Chapter Three > > > > > > > Hi Professor Barkan: Thanks for your nice email. I'm attaching > > my third chapter, the one on AYLI and 12thN. > > > > This one took a long time to write, because I was dealing with > > two plays and because I feel that this is an important chapter, > > overall, for the thesis. So I'm extra interested to see what > > you think. I've been inside this one for so long that I have > > a hard time getting some perspective on it. > > > > Some of the usual excuses, deflections: I was thinking over the > > weekend that some of my "bigger" statements in this chapter > > (i.e. about comedy, about what AYLI/12thN. do) are not as > > fully realized or explained as I want them to be. Also I do > > a lot of talking about the reason for and use of theories > > like New Historicism and psychological theory and then don't > > really apply them -- I plan to. And finally, I'm afraid > > there's probably a touch of that annoying "self-congratulatory" > > tone in here, where I act all faux "surprised" to discover sibling > > rhetoric. I don't like that either, and I plan to mute it down > > later, rest assured. (I think it helps me during the drafting > > stages, though, to make some big pronouncements--to myself!-- > > about what I need to do.) > > > > OK, that's just so you know I know there's a lot of revising > > still to come. On a positive note, there are some things > > about this chapter that I really like! And I think my close > > readings are strong. > > > > Thank you, as always, for your help and criticism. Have > > a super August! > > > > -- Emily ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:01:15 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: Joni's rhymes - Almost Famous On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:31:31 kerry wrote: >I always felt this way about Joni's use of "incendiary" in Come In From The >Cold. How many times do you hear THAT word in a song? Funny that you mention this Kerry! I watched Almost Famous again and it grabbed me that the word that gets the main character William through the stage door is "incindiary". Ironic? We know that Cameron Crowe is a huge Joni fan. Maybe symbolic, rather than ironic. Discuss amoungst yourselves...... Sue n.p. theme from local 11:00 p.m. news Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 01:28:30 -0500 From: johnirving Subject: Re: How do you stop. Ok, it's not a Joni song... but the way I've always taken the meaning of the questioning in How do you stop, (ie. how to stop growing corn or a baby being born) is that it's not meant to be a direct question. (Which begets direct answers: Obviously abortion, poisons, etc.) What's being asked is, how do you avoid or undue things without heartache, loss or suffering? There's the rub. (And the point of the song, I think...) I feel listening to the song in this context gives it more value. Just my op. On other fronts... --I've been horribly irresponsible of late!!! Taking time away from painting and (gasp!) playing with my Parker Fly and VG-8. (And quite badly I might add.) But I have a blast with it when I do. This instrument is far too viilified in this community. It's an amazing instrument with beautiful sound. Strings don't break and switching songs is a touch of a dial away. How can you beat that? In any way possible, I encourage everyone out there to get a guitar and to PLAY Joni's music. Don't fret lack of ability! I certainly don't. Just wait until everyone has left the house. It's like singing in the showers. Off key? Who gives a damn? There are several perks for me in playing Joni: One, it will help one realize that all the 'phases' of Joni... rock, jazz, pop, etc. are blurs of 'style-isms.' In truth there is Joni and only Joni here, -her chords, her melodies and song. Everything else is packaging. Her music is not part of anything. It is purely Joan. Playing the songs in isolation, away from the 'production' of the recordings makes this very clear to me. There are surprises in the chords...!!!! I'm always amazed by the transition chords in her music. Fourth and 5th chords are obviously pretty in their transitions and Joni relies on them as much as anyone. But in the bridges, when she switches keys, modalities, etc. there are some brilliantly amazing chords that thrill my heart everytime I hear them. I find tonal passages that thrill me listing to her music being very different from the one's playing her music. It's the chords on the first, second, third, eighth, tenth, thirteenth frets that really put a spell on me. -Is this true for anyone else out there? As Bob Dylan asked, "Joni, where did you get THOSE CHORDS???!!! You may discover you like Joni songs you hate! Stripping those hated songs of synth effects, drum kits, etc. etc. may open up up your heart to the poetry and chordal movements that make Joni Joni. The best way to get Mueller dancing happily to Dancing Clown may be to get him playing it himself! (Do I hear a fest request?) As much as I loved all the bands Joni played with on tour, the moments that sent tingles up my spine the most is where she would play a song solo. There was a profound mix of serenity and intensity in those moments. You could feel it in the quiet attentiveness of hteaudience. Everyone locked in on her because you just new you were in for a beautiful experience. Now, what can I bribe Paz with to do me another patch of Joni tunings????? It's the open tunings, man. I love her for the open tunings. john. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #241 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?