From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #232 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, July 30 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 232 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- [Fwd: 3 hour tribute to Joni on "Nightflight" radioshow.....] [Brian Gros] Re: joni's stars ["shane mattison" ] Re: and sometimes there'll be sorrow [Michael Paz ] Re: SJC vain promises on beauty jars [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: SJC vain promises on beauty jars ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: and sometimes there'll be sorrow [colin ] Re: joni's stars [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: joni's stars [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: joni's stars [Randy Remote ] Re: Thom Byrd [PMcfad@aol.com] Clinton cited joni in Canadian parliament '95 ["shane mattison" Subject: [Fwd: 3 hour tribute to Joni on "Nightflight" radioshow.....] Received from Catgirl's list this morning - I couldn't get their webcast to come in, so those jmdlers in Eastern MA, do you get this station over the air? Happy Sunday morning to my jonifamily Is there an oneg after services at the Church of Joni?? ;-) later then, Brei np: the silence of a sleeping household - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [JoniMitchellfans] 3 hour tribute to Joni on "Nightflight" radioshow..... Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:51:54 -0000 From: jpatpt@yahoo.com To: JoniMitchellfans@yahoogroups.com Hello. My name is John. I'm a new member. I'm also a DJ at WOMR 92.1 FM Provincetown, Cape Cod, MA. This coming Tuesday Night 12m-3am ET/USA I'll be airing a 3 hr Joni tribute. Please check out my "Nightflight" show website at http://www.geocities.com/jpatpt/nightflight.html for more details and a link to log onto WOMR to listen to NIGHTFLIGHT on your computer. Hope you listen in. Thanks. John. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:10:23 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Re: joni's stars hi rose, there's only one drawback to their chart system for celebrities...it appears that hour and minute of birth is largely unknown for their celebrities, so they use 12 noon as a default position, which affects the ascendant (rising) and the midheaven signs... this affects only how she appears to the world, not fundamental relationship or compatibility...alter her rising time and the other compatibity quotients remain the same... however, because they have most all of these celebrities at the default 12 noon birthtime, it throws joni's rising into doubt... didn't joni say she is sag rising? yet a journalist once called her a scorpio rising, like you suspected...however, a) you may not have been aware of this default fault on these charts b) he , the journalist, only mentioned rising (with goethe) as scorpio and so he may have really discovered her for certain sun sign which is scorpio... c) if joni states somewhere she is sag rising, i bet she is (no need to embellish here)... interesting eh? will the true rising sign of joni mitchell come forth!... see ya, lil fish... shane ----- Original Message ----- From: RoseMJoy@aol.com To: cactussong@home.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:49 AM Subject: Re: joni's stars In a message dated 7/28/01 11:04:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cactussong@home.com writes: i'm lucky 'cause i'm pisces... me three!!! btw, joni is not a Sag rising, she's a double scorpio. If looks could kill rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:28:09 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: and sometimes there'll be sorrow Mags I feel what you are saying here. Esp. the part bout just letting someone cry. I have always looked at that as a way of releasing and it helps to do it or let someone do it. Thanks for sharing this with us and good challange Mr. Muller. Love Paz on 7/28/01 7:36 PM, Mags at pholden@iprimus.ca wrote: > Just found this in my drafts folder dated mid > june...not sure why I never sent it..... thanks Brei > for the inspiration to do so. > *** > > I have taken up my brother Bob Muller's challenge by > doing a little searching- around -Joni-lyrics- town > for a word to focus on . The word I am most moved by > is one of my all time favourites, sorrow. It is one > thing to say someone is sad, or someone is hurting, > someone is down, blue, having an off day, off year, > off life... however, it is another thing altogether to > use the word sorrow. Joni digs deep with this one. > > To hear the word sorrow is like finding long lost keys > to a treasure. I think I can safely say that many > people are much more comfortable around emotions like > happiness or joy or feeling content...all those warm > and fuzzy feelings ... however when we start pushing > the emotional envelope, we wriggle and squirm in our > seats when it comes to those emotions which linger, > deep down inside us, and so often they go unspoken. > > Let's face it, when you are really sad and having a > melt down, how many people are comfortable enough to > allow you to just cry to your heart's content? In my > experience, most people just walk away or else they > can't deal with tears. They want to fix you, make it > go away ... anything so that they will not have to > deal with what your sorrow triggers inside them. > Sadness and especially sorrow has a tendency to make > everyone feel uncomfortable. > > To me, there is no finer word than sorrow to describe > some of the images Joni conjures in her songs. A > painting analogy might be considered ... using the > word sorrow is like using VanGogh oil paints rather > than brand x. There is just no comparison. The hues > and tones give reign to so many feelings and > experiences, the right touch to express heartfelt > meaning, they are rich and deep and filled with > meaning and can rock the listener to the core. You > only have to cover the canvas once with their cad > yellow to get what I mean. To me, the word sorrow is > all encompassing when it comes to trying to describe > the deepest of sad moment(s). > > Let's take a look at the list of songs I came up with > when I entered the word sorrow in Les' search engine. > > Don't Interrupt The Sorrow > The Sire Of Sorrow > Marcie > Little Green > Answer Me, My Love > Willy > Tin Angel > The Pirate of Penance > Roses Blue > For The Roses > Conversation > A Melody In Your Name > > > > np: At Last, Eva Cassidy, Time After Time > *Brei and i extend our warmest thanks to our dear > Dutch Uncle for treasures received* > > -- > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ > ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 13:07:34 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: and sometimes there'll be sorrow I remember Joni saying that is Europe they're much more open to expressing the whole range of human emotion, including sorrow, then they are here in the U.S.,where expressing deeper, darker emotions are unwelcome. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:41:58 +0200 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: SJC vain promises on beauty jars Mags said: >Let me speak, let me spit out my bitterness >(she leaves quite an impression by using the word spit ...spitting on someone >is such an act of ...what...rage...disgust??) >Why have you soured and curdled me? >(taking us well beyond anger again) I think Jonis decision to spit out bitterness rather than anger or rage is based on her understanding of the humours which in the Middle Ages were thought to affect a persons disposition, character, temperament or morality. These humours date from Hippocratic physiology and denote the four fluids (humour is Latin for moisture) which, when mixed well, make up a balanced person. The fluids are blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile, making people sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric or melancholic, respectively. We have seen comments on the list lately on bile-marinated goodies and bile-marinated declamations and I think all will agree that the comments have been pretty choleric. Bearing in mind the fluid nature of the bitter taste of bile, I think Joni selected a verb which goes well with the expulsion of the visc(i)ous material, i.e. spitting out the bitterness. Her later use of both souring and curdling merely continues the metaphor. One thing that I am not sure about is if Joni/Job wants to be free of the bitterness she has been caused, or if s/he wants to speak in a bitter way about something or someone. Is s/he asking to unload on someone or searching for a solution (theres that metaphor again) to the problem? The classic case in English LitCrit of a well-balanced person was Brutus, of whom Anthony says: His life was gentle, and the elements so mixd in him that Nature might stand up and say to all the world, This was a man! Youll find this in the last page of Julius Caesar, written by Willy the Shake, of whom some of you will have heard Got to stop here. I have to go and teach my granny to suck eggs Mike in Barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:16:52 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: SJC vain promises on beauty jars << I think Jonis decision to spit out bitterness rather than anger or rage is based on her understanding of the humours which in the Middle Ages >> A most excellent point, Mike...I'm not sure how much of Sire of Sorrow was HER text and how much was lifted from Job. I don't know which version or translation she used when writing the lyrics, but her writing could have taken much of the text directly from the source. Which isn't to take anything away from "Sire of Sorrow", one of the most brilliant pieces she's written, and I think one of her attempts to reconcile herself with The Bible which she had dismissed at an early age. Bob NP: Amy Correia, "Carnival Love" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:24:10 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: SJC vain promises on beauty jars > One thing that I am not sure about is if Joni/Job wants to be free of the > bitterness she has been caused, or if s/he wants to speak in a bitter way > about something or someone. Is s/he asking to unload on someone or > searching for a solution (theres that metaphor again) to the problem? Job is trying to understand why his god is seemingly punishing him. He demands the opportunity to state his case, lists his grievances, asks why he has been visited with all of his misfortunes and demands that god answer him. To me the song is about someone's faith being tried in the extreme and their subsequent struggle to understand why. Job/Joni isn't just unloading or looking for a solution so much as demanding to know why. 'Show your face Help me understand What is the reason For your heavy hand? Was it the sins of my youth? What have I done to you? That you make everything I dread And everything I fear come true?' I love this song. I think it's one of her crowning achievements. If you've ever been close to someone or had a group of close friends who have died of AIDS, the parallels in these lyrics are eerie. I suppose that could be said for any number of diseases or calamities as well. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:31:12 +0100 From: pyramus@lineone.net Subject: 3 hour Joni tribute this Tuesday http://www.geocities.com/jpatpt/nightflight.html pyramus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:19:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: and sometimes there'll be sorrow Mags, that was a wonderful post...I grew up listening to Joni & loved the way she says sorrow & to this day I think I pronounce it with a Canadian accent...it is such a beautiful word to say that way... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:59:25 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: joni's stars This was fun. Hell, it looks like I will be helping you in Joni's kitchen: "It would be good for Kate to cook soup and stews for Joni. This relationship will work better straight and sober." But she in turn will help me!!!! "Joni could bring out the star qualities in Kate." !!!!!!!!!! And more: "Kate can help Joni to schedule more appropriate routines. Kate can help Joni feel pride through right living. The two of you could enjoy walks in secluded areas and collect evidence against polluters... The two of you could benefit through camping trips together." But alas, she will eventually miss her clean white linen & fancy french colone... fun, thanks Shane... just click below for your own trip to the stars... http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Og8rIM6o7z4:www.adze.com/bios/htm/1943/ 1 1070001.html ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:36:04 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: and sometimes there'll be sorrow I am sure she didn't mean the UK! A pretty repressed lot here! Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > I remember Joni saying that is Europe they're much more open to > expressing the whole range of human emotion, including sorrow, then they are > here in the U.S.,where expressing deeper, darker emotions are unwelcome. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:24:35 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's stars I think I read or heard Joni say that she is a Triple Scorpio. If she is Sag rising, this is news to me. My birthday is November 6th and I think I am Sag rising and would hope to be compatible with Joni when we oneday become best friends. Ken, SF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:43:12 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's stars In a message dated 7/29/01 12:02:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cactussong@home.com writes: > didn't joni say she is sag rising? yet a journalist once called her a > scorpio rising, like you suspected...however, I have an old live recording where Joni is asked by one of her fans in the audience what rising sign she is, and she answers in a whisper, Scorpio. I did read that somewhere as well. I think it might have been Hinton's book. I did her chart somewhere putting her at 7:00 am not knowing her true time of birth. If she is a Scorpio rising, she would have to have been born somewhere between 6-8AM If I find it in my files, I'll email it to you. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:36:45 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni's stars As far as I have been able to tell, Joni's birthtime has not been documented. Until someone can come up with some proof like the actual recording mentioned (and not just Hinton's description of it), her birth certificate, an actual quote from Joni or her mother, it's still heresay that she is Scorpio rising. Not that it doesn't fit. But as far as I know, that information hasn't come forth, and a proper chart for her has not been done. RR RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/29/01 12:02:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > cactussong@home.com writes: > > > didn't joni say she is sag rising? yet a journalist once called her a > > scorpio rising, like you suspected...however, > > I have an old live recording where Joni is asked by one of her fans in the > audience what rising sign she is, and she answers in a whisper, Scorpio. I > did read that somewhere as well. I think it might have been Hinton's book. > I did her chart somewhere putting her at 7:00 am not knowing her true time of > birth. If she is a Scorpio rising, she would have to have been born somewhere > between 6-8AM > If I find it in my files, I'll email it to you. > > Rose in NJ > > rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:13:46 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: Thom Byrd thom, you started a thread labled ...expose the bitch!. that was a nasty thing you started to a very private and genuine person. you had no right to lable in the heading a derogatory comment about anyone on this list. seems rather immature and mean spirited to me. i went on your web site. you're an artist. so is debra shea. a good one. and you'll probably never know anything more about her than that. i noticed today that her pic is no longer on the gallery. everyone has a right to their views and to share them on this list. and everyone has a right to maintain their privacy. and most people on this list value those things. perhaps in time you will too. pat In a message dated 7/27/2001 8:26:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:20:59 -0400 > From: "Thom Byrd" > Subject: expose the bitch! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 23:02:59 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: Clinton cited joni in Canadian parliament '95 The United States and Canada: Reaffirming the Partnership President Clinton Remarks to the Canadian Parliament, Ottawa, Canada, February 23, 1995 I thank the Prime Minister and all of you for welcoming me to this magnificent capital city. The Prime Minister first came to this chamber to represent the people of Canada when President Kennedy was in the White House. I resent that because when President Kennedy was in the White House, I was in junior high school--and now the Prime Minister has less gray hair than I do. He does, in spite of the fact that since that time he has occupied nearly every seat in his nation's cabinet. The first time I met him, I wondered why this guy could not hold down a job. My wife has visited Toronto, and we had a wonderful, wonderful family vacation in Western Canada--in Victoria and Vancouver back in 1990--one of the best times that all of us have ever had together anywhere. We are deeply indebted to your culture. Our daughter's name was inspired by Canadian songwriter Joni Mitchell's wonderful song, Chelsea Morning. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #232 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?