From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #222 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, July 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 222 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Shake the Willy [Gordon Mackie ] Re: Shake the Willy ["J. R. Mills" ] Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness ["Michael Paz" ] saskatchewan soul, like the geese ["shane mattison" ] RE: Shake the Willy ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: books ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: The Dating of Summer Lawns [Jerry Notaro ] Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness ["colin" ] Joni's Medicinewheel [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni's Medicinewheel [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Soul (sjc) [RobSher50@aol.com] Mimi Farina [hessj@ix.netcom.com] soulfulness ["Kate Bennett" ] Bigots and otherwise ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Bigots and otherwise ["colin" ] RE: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures ["Wally Kairuz" ] A new Joni for Foni !!! [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Re: Shake the Willy [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lively Up The List (was UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE) [Bruyere ] Re: Soul (sjc) [Bruyere ] NYRO, NYRO, NYRO! [Wtking59@cs.com] Re: [Jonifest2001] Joni's Medicinewheel [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:14:54 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Shake the Willy The 'ruby in a black man's ear' which is correctly attributed to Shakepeare does not have a literal meaning in the play Othello. It actually refers to something rather different...an erect penis. It was an allusion used often by Willy the Shake (which seems to have a different conotation now). Actually, this is my vain attempt to be humourous and I just made it up. Please someone find this vaguely amusing...I am trying to lighten up..honest...honest... Anna Karenina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:45:59 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: Shake the Willy I find this hilarious...an absolute panic! You had me going for a moment there. lol! Anna Karenina indeed. Rotfl! That "HEjira@aol.com" person may well have made their move too soon...we're lively now, aren't we? I love this list. - -Julius > The 'ruby in a black man's ear' which is correctly attributed to > Shakepeare does not have a literal meaning in the play Othello. It > actually refers to something rather different...an erect penis. It > was an allusion used often by Willy the Shake (which seems to have a > different conotation now). Actually, this is my vain attempt to be > humourous and I just made it up. Please someone find this vaguely > amusing...I am trying to lighten up..honest...honest... > > Anna Karenina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:15:24 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness Julius- I am SO weary of this topic! The only thing I am REALLY uncomfortable being called is white (even though momma was as white as they come on the outside). I have always been lumped with the coloureds or darkies. As I think I have expressed many times before on this culturally diverse list is that *I* can hang in just about any hood 'cept the white mans. And that doesn't mean I think all white people are prejudiced against us. But when it comes right down to it I am usually on the defensive when I am amongst white people. How many times have I been the situation groovin on some music somewhere and some white guy calls me _________ (insert YOUR favorite derogatory name here), only to be corrected by some other white guy who informs the first that I am "high yella" or "injun" or "..." Lately here at work one of the guys has taken to calling me "brown factor". It is just the latest in a very long line of names I have been called throughout my life. For the most part at this point they just roll or bounce right off of me, but deep down YES it still does hurt. I find this level of ignorance still very prevelant here in the deep south. They always seem to wanna push the envelope just as far as they can. Ultimately I continue to worry for my children who have also felt the hate from some kid a school who was raised by morons, that people who are different from you, should be made fun of or singled out in a negative way. Recently I had the chance to work with the Black Enteretainment Network here in New Orleans and while I would love to tell you of ALL that happened on this gig, I think it better to be silent about it for now (too many pending issues still). I will tell you, however, that for the first time in my life I felt a real racial undercurrent directed at me (as well as most of the other local people, mostly whites) from a predominantly black "core" crew. I am trying to believe that it was because "they" work together alot and that all of us New Orleans folk are "outsiders". But there was some real feelings that were not good there. The comedians, dancers, and other talent on the show were the exact opposite of all this. With them I felt part of the group and warm with. I had a phone call from alot of them after I left the crew telling me how much they missed me on the crew and that things were really different since I left. I am blessed to have so many friends from so many backgrounds. Eveeryday I see walls that come down and love spreading it's wings. I believe that indeed "change gonna come", but for now I find prejudice even within myself. Even though it is born of a defense mechanism within me, I am ashamed of that. One thing I am sure of though, the bigot white man is outnumbered by all of the darktown society throughout the world (with people like Joni being in *THIS* number). I pray I do not offend anyone with my honest feelings here for it is not my intention. I only choose to share this with you guys so you can see the depth of hurt and confusion that hate causes people. It is so tragic that *we* have to classify ourselves as any group other than mere brothers, one and all. As one, Michael NP-Love On A Saturday Night-Jack Neilson (the demo version) Julius wrote: > *I* take no offense to being referred to as "Black," Wally, but Paz might. > ;-) However, I generally capitalize the term. I have issues with "colored" > and "negro" though...but that's just me. I not sure what you're asking with > regard to the term "African-American." A euphemism for what? If a Black > person is Canadian they would probably be an African-Canadian. I believe > most Jamaicans are Black. One would probably refer to European-Jamaicans > for differentiation, when necessary. > > I just read Sherelle's post on this thread and am amazed at the > synchronicity of our views on Joni having soul. Thanks for your thoughts, > Sherelle. Very well stated. > > - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:03:07 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness Not being black or even mixed race, i don;t feel i ahev much difficulty understanding what you just wrote. i don't think many gay people would. Algthough in some ways different, I think our experience is pretty much as you describe. When i was a child and living briefly here in the UK and longer in the Australian outback, having a Spanish mother was a reason to be singkled out and being treated differently. things are different now-no one ever aks about my ethnic background. However, the gay thing is still there of course and the reason we are on the 'outisde' and I think always will be. I am reminded of Ellen telling Oprah, in an episode of Ellen, of Ellen's experience and Oprah saying that she of course understood, being a black woman etc. I found this both amusing and warming as in my experience in the past equaiting the struggle of gay people with the struggle of people of colour has resulted in anger and hate emanating form the people fo colour. It seemed that the comparison was not welcomed regardless of how appropriate it is. At the basis of all such prejudice is fear and lack of self esteem. Both of these things require the person to have an 'enemy' or someone to feel better than rather than to actually to do the work necessary to change. Whatever ethnic group, gender, sexuality, or whatever you are, there is always someone who will hate you for it. the trick is to love yourself regardless. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:08:02 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: saskatchewan soul, like the geese thankyou sherelle, julius, brenda and you others for your very thoughtful posts... i get my list deep in the night; i don't know why i get it so much later than some...maybe the order in which we joined? i'm glad the direction of this topic has gone towards the quality of soul in joni mitchell... thankyou for putting into words this quality...you mention it has to do with individuality and originality... in the edmonton folk fest in the nineties, on a lovely clear prairie night, the most memorable song joni sang (in my mind), Borderline includes: Every bristling shaft of pride Church or nation Team or tribe Every notion we subscribe to Is just a borderline Good or bad, we think we know; As if thinking makes it so! All convictions grow along the borderline Every income, every age, Every fashion-plated rage, Every measure, every gauge Creates a borderline Every stone thrown through glass, Every mean-streets-kick ass, Every swan caught on the grass Will draw a borderline... (from Turbulent Indigo) julius raised the question, is there really a canadian- american black bond - maybe its anecdotal, especially when you here a stupid remark like that made by prime minister chretien (not his first, and not his last)...and sherelle, you asked for some thoughts on this topic... i'm not an expert, i can only share a few anecdotes...like lincoln alexander, who i knew fairly well, a descendent of the underground railroad, and the first black member of parliament, who has been since then lieutenant- governor (official representative of our 'Head of State, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II for the province of Ontario)..."Linc" as he was known by his friends, knew more of the real history, and yes, his father was a 'red cap' on the CPR (Canadian Pacific Railroad), as were many blacks...was it hard for them to find other work? probably...and was the culture any better than that south of the border? probably less overtly racist, though economic opportunity not too easy...some blacks were ontario residents, some ended up in halifax where they created a community of sorts, sometimes excluded on certain 'imperial' sports teams...yes canada was less violent, but sometimes had a 'british empire' snobbery, so your comment julius about finding any port was bang on...of course now in canada, economic opportunity for minorities is excellent... we are a far-flung country of 5 major regions, each with their own flavour, who have had to be therefore more of a cultural mosaic, and therefore with a far less dominant 'majority' than in the U.S....and so there are patterns of migration and borderlessness that have been a part of our history... joni mitchell, though, is exceptionally borderless...the prairie vastness, the migrating geese, originally no black population to speak of (with a few interesting exceptions, like a few black cowboys who drove cattle north with others from places like texas and oklahoma)...and she like my sask cousins wanted with all their souls to initially get away from 'boring maidstone' where all she could do for fun was to watch the train roll by...saskatoon too teetolling and 'provincial'...so she went borderless from early on, a migrator like the geese, flying south to sophistication and excitement and opportunity...she has read thomas merton, and therefore felt the thrill of his borderless vision too, as well as his (for he was a big migrant too) interest in the african american community (and a special friendship with martin luther king and his wife coretta)...because their 'story' is our story...as my dad would always quote "we are all part and parcel of what we have met"... joni had and has guts galore...and her vision has been borderless... shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:59:51 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: The Dating of Summer Lawns Just an observation, I was listening to "Hissing" last night on the headphones (I hadn't listened to it in awhile) and it recoccurred to me as to how "dated" the playing sounded..........I remember hearing the cd for the first time after listening to C&S a thousand times and thinking, "C&S doesn't sound half this dated"........The dating actually works to "Hissing's" benefit, it adds that 70's "Love Boat", "Charlie's Angels'" --esque Domestic familiarity, which reminds listeners of those lazy days of their childhood/teenage/adult years..........Especially "Edith And the Kingpin" which magically transports you to a little disco on the bad side of town, circa mid-70's......... Maybe I'm alone, BUT, everytime I hear "Edith and the Kingpin", I think of those Pam Grier blaxploitation films of the 70's......"Foxy Brown", "Coffy", "Friday Foster", "Sheeba, Baby".............I'm telling you............Those films have the same plot lines...........Lots of drugs, pimps, hookers, sex, violence, AND they all take place during the same time period........Just an observation. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:29:11 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: The Dating of Summer Lawns Very interesting observations! I've felt that the music was intended to sound this way for the very same reasons. What amazes me is that the period pieces, Edith and also the title tune, sound so much like my own memories of childhood. My Mom listened to Herb Alpert a lot and I have vivid memories of playing in the sprinkler on the lawn in the late afternoon sunlight while this music was playing. When I hear those muted horns on Hissing (The song) I am completely reminded of Herb Alpert, and childhood and summertime. Just another way that Joni has painted with words and music and the accurate colors of the way she chose the music to sound. Ken from SF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:30:35 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness Colin- Thanks and I get what you mean here. I forgot to mention that during my childhood and adolecence that I also was persecuted for being shy, quiet, and somewhat feminine in my demeanour. If I had a dime for everytime I was called queer, faggot, nigger, etc. I could buy peoples tolerance. If your natural mom was Spanish then you are mixed (therefore one of us ;-) But I take it you are fair skinned, which is something I will never know what that feels like. My number two son Julian is very fair so I feel he is going to grow up a little different than Mikey. No matter what, I think they will learn that we have always welcomed all kinds of people into our home and never made a big deal about what colour they were or sexual preferences etc. They have also seen many a sick child coming from Honduras to a US hospital that have overnighted with us and have learned that loving and caring for all mankind is the true path to follow. Thanks for the post Michael NP-Seasons-Elton John - ----- Original Message ----- From: colin To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:03 AM Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness Not being black or even mixed race, i don;t feel i ahev much difficulty understanding what you just wrote. i don't think many gay people would. Algthough in some ways different, I think our experience is pretty much as you describe. When i was a child and living briefly here in the UK and longer in the Australian outback, having a Spanish mother was a reason to be singkled out and being treated differently. things are different now-no one ever aks about my ethnic background. However, the gay thing is still there of course and the reason we are on the 'outisde' and I think always will be. I am reminded of Ellen telling Oprah, in an episode of Ellen, of Ellen's experience and Oprah saying that she of course understood, being a black woman etc. I found this both amusing and warming as in my experience in the past equaiting the struggle of gay people with the struggle of people of colour has resulted in anger and hate emanating form the people fo colour. It seemed that the comparison was not welcomed regardless of how appropriate it is. At the basis of all such prejudice is fear and lack of self esteem. Both of these things require the person to have an 'enemy' or someone to feel better than rather than to actually to do the work necessary to change. Whatever ethnic group, gender, sexuality, or whatever you are, there is always someone who will hate you for it. the trick is to love yourself regardless. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:44:09 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Shake the Willy LMAO, your too funny! db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Mackie Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 3:15 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Shake the Willy The 'ruby in a black man's ear' which is correctly attributed to Shakepeare does not have a literal meaning in the play Othello. It actually refers to something rather different...an erect penis. It was an allusion used often by Willy the Shake (which seems to have a different conotation now). Actually, this is my vain attempt to be humourous and I just made it up. Please someone find this vaguely amusing...I am trying to lighten up..honest...honest... Anna Karenina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:34:07 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness I would actually like to be referred to > as "human." I would like to see the day that a person sees my character > before he/she sees the color of my skin. That doesn't mean I am not proud of > my ethnicity, it just means that I would prefer to be acknowledged as a > member of the human race. This is just my own personal opinion. > > Sherelle Wouldn't that be a beautiful thing, Sherelle? Although I've lost interest in her later work, there are a couple of Rita Mae Brown's books that are among my favorites. Here's a quote from 'Southern Discomfort': 'Well don't you see, Miz Banastre? I've thought about this before, too. It's God's joke.' 'Color?'' 'Yes, color and everything. God put beautiful spirits into these bodies, all kinds of bodies. There's men and women and white and black and beautiful and ugly and old and young and oh, just everything. And we dumb humans are confused by the outside. We keep looking at the outside instead of the inside.....Pretty soon we start killing each other because of these bodies. And God laughs because we're so stupid. We can't see anything. He puts spirits in every one of us and trees and cats and everything. So maybe we aren't the same outside, maybe we are unequal, but inside the soul is pure. All souls are equal. If only we could see the soul. Some people do and they understand the joke and maybe they find happiness. I_' She fumbled for her thoughts, a connection, and then said with finality, 'We are one.' Me again: I think of myself first and foremost as a human being. My race and even my gender come somewhere further down the list after that. They are not as important. And like Blue Rhonda Latrec, the character speaking above who was not what she seemed to be, I too believe that we are all connected to one another and the physical differences between us are insignificant. It's very evident to me that Joni feels the same way. I too want to thank Julius, Sherelle & Brenda and everyone else who has posted on this thread for the depth, honesty & insight they have put into their writing. We need to be able to talk to one another to even begin to truly understand. I love seeing this kind of honest & respectful discussion. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:40:04 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: books > Books- how about a 'favourite book' thread for all of us who don't have cars. > Or maybe a 'book I'm currently reading' thread. I'll start the ball rolling > with "The Third Policeman" by Flann O'Brien, and "A THOUSAND YEARS OF > NONLINEAR HISTORY" by Manuel De Landa. > > 'Penblwydd Hapus' to Lori > > Mike in rainy Barcelona 'The Mists of Avalon' - I taped the TNT miniseries. I had only read about a third of the book when it aired and I won't watch it until I've finished! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:20:47 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Dating of Summer Lawns KJHSF@aol.com wrote: > Very interesting observations! I've felt that the music was intended to > sound this way for the very same reasons. What amazes me is that the period > pieces, Edith and also the title tune, sound so much like my own memories of > childhood. My Mom listened to Herb Alpert a lot and I have vivid memories of > playing in the sprinkler on the lawn in the late afternoon sunlight while > this music was playing. When I hear those muted horns on Hissing (The song) > I am completely reminded of Herb Alpert, and childhood and summertime. Just > another way that Joni has painted with words and music and the accurate > colors of the way she chose the music to sound. Funny. As much as I was not much enamored of HOSL when it came out, I think it sounds much less dated than DED or WTRF. Jerry np: some great blues on WMNF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:27:48 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness > Sherelle Wouldn't that be a beautiful thing, Sherelle? Although I've lost interest in her later work, there are a couple of Rita Mae Brown's books that are among my favorites. Here's a quote from 'Southern Discomfort': 'Well don't you see, Miz Banastre? I've thought about this before, too. It's God's joke.' 'Color?'' 'Yes, color and everything. God put beautiful spirits into these bodies, all kinds of bodies. There's men and women and white and black and beautiful and ugly and old and young and oh, just everything. And we dumb humans are confused by the outside. We keep looking at the outside instead of the inside.....Pretty soon we start killing each other because of these bodies. And God laughs because we're so stupid. We can't see anything. He puts spirits in every one of us and trees and cats and everything. So maybe we aren't the same outside, maybe we are unequal, but inside the soul is pure. All souls are equal. If only we could see the soul. Some people do and they understand the joke and maybe they find happiness. I_' She fumbled for her thoughts, a connection, and then said with finality, 'We are one.' thanks you for sharing that Mark. I think it just about sums it up. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:32:36 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness - -------Original Message------- From: Michael Paz Date: 19 July 2001 18:50:16 To: colin; JRMCo1@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness Colin- Thanks and I get what you mean here. I forgot to mention that during my childhood and adolecence that I also was persecuted for being shy, quiet, and somewhat feminine in my demeanour. If I had a dime for everytime I was called queer, faggot, nigger, etc. I could buy peoples tolerance. DITTO If your natural mom was Spanish then you are mixed (therefore one of us ;-) that is how i see myself-as mixed. My mother comes from spanish, greek, african, celtic background, my father from english/irish. But I take it you are fair skinned, which is something I will never know what that feels like. I am not sure what you mean by fair skinned. I ahev balck hari and an olive skin which if out in the sun goes very dark-dark enough that when I first came to the UK from Australia, people thought I was asian. However, my skin is white white as we don't get much sun here(!) and I have no patience for sun bathing. Besides, i like to look younger than my 20/22 years! and have learned that loving and caring for all mankind is the true path to follow. and the hardest! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:52:24 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni's Medicinewheel Hi guys! Jim Johanson from JoniMitchell.com was kind enough to share this little drawing that Joni had done when she signed his Voices book at the Mendel Gallery. So with his permission, I've attached it here on Catgirl's site. Now what do you suppose all this means? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm not too up on Native American Spirituality, but I'm sure gonna do some research. For those of you not signed up with Catgirl's list, email me privately and I'll be happy to send it along to you. A big Thanks Jim Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of JonisWheel.jpeg] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:03:26 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Medicinewheel In a message dated 7/19/01 4:00:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: > As you can see, you've fallen victim to smoe.org's > Attachment Nazi ... but if you'd send us a link to > Catgirl's site ... :-) > > it's one of those sites that you have to subscribe to Don and others www.jonimitchellfans@yahoo.com rosemjoy@aol.com [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of JonisWheel.jpeg] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:22:53 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Soul (sjc) Dear Colin: In my mind, soul does not have a color because it comes from within. Others have tried to label it and categorize it towards a particular color, but it's essence has more to do with "feeling." Dusty Springfield was one of the most "soulful" singers I know who doesn't fit the traditional "mold" society has created for this term. Tom Jones, in my opinion has soul. Sting has soul. Janis Joplin had soul. Carlos Santana has soul. The lead singer from Matchbox 20, Rob Thomas has soul. Gwen Steffani has soul. Cyndi Lauper has soul. KD Lang has soul. Sade has soul. Jill Scott has soul. Dave Matthews has soul. Ann(sp?) DiFranco has soul. In the music business, it is also referred to as "it," an unexplainable term which translates into record sales. In this case, the beauty of soul has been downgraded into monetary terms. The industry has further diluted "it" by packaging it up all neat and pretty and including components that have absolutely nothing to do with a person's raw talent. There are many people in the music industry with "talent," the ability to sing, write, or dance. Packaged with a pretty face and nice (though skimpy) clothes, they do very well. However, the element of soul has the ability to transcend from the performer to the listener in a way that is very hard to describe. It has nothing to do with color. When Aretha Franklin was aptly named, "The Queen of Soul,'" and James Brown was dubbed, "the Godfather of soul," I think society started to naturally associated the term with black artists. Soul comes from experience and a need to communicate that experience. When I hear a sad Irish ballad, I can feel soul in that song. I feel the soul in a Native American chant over what was lost by a nation. Joan Baez sang a song called "Joe Hill" long ago which touched me to the roots. It was a song about the Union and the awful things which made it necessary in the 20's to start it. Joni's soul comes from her experience with life and with love. It comes from the need to communicate the hurt, the pain, and the joy she has felt all of her life. Soul takes courage to communicate because you expose your heart to another human being when you do it. You strip yourself bare. Without rambling further, I hope this answers your question that soul, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with color, but has everything to do with being brave enough to share your heart with others. Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:30:37 -0400 From: hessj@ix.netcom.com Subject: Mimi Farina Perhaps this is "old" news, but I hadn't heard before (having only skimmed the Joni messages before leaving my apt. earlier today) that Mimi Farina died yesterday of lung cancer. She was 56. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:17:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: soulfulness All I can say is WOW. This has been a very poignant & soulful thread. Thank you all for opening your hearts & sharing your experiences...I feel like your words have created a palatable reality of what it feels like to live in a world where the highest nature of humanity is the norm. The power of your thoughts & words & dreams are very strong. What an amazing group of people you are. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:06:32 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Bigots and otherwise I am sitting here laughing at Anna Karenina's post. An aftenoon brightener! And then I read on about bigotry...and I find I am always amused when white people refer to some other ethnic group...like "The Little Chinese family down the street", or "The Little Jewish lady at the store". I wondered as a child how they got so small...when they were the same size as everyone else. I find these comments are made by people who would never, mind you, never, say the word "Chink" or "Jew" and pride themselves on their lack of prejudice. So mostly I simply smile...because I have never heard anyone talk about "That little white man at work". I could perhaps talk like that...after all, I am one of those little Jewish women down the street. I also am amused by the use of the term "dysfunctional family". I hear it used day in and day out. To me it is redundant. :) Happy birthday to you Lori....... :) Peace......Sharon in Wisconsin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:28:47 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures Ok first of all. Are we not in agreement that THOSL was a precursor if not a direct influence on The Ice Storm, American Beauty and all these angsty movies about rich whites who have lost their spark from manicured lawns, Honeywell security systems, and safe employment. Also I feel that this album is perfect for a movie. Though so much of her music if filmic. I also think that in the song HOSL, that little interlude with her scatting and the muted trumpet symbolizes either an ad on tv or the News at 12:00. I've heard that she was going to include grass chants on Paprika Plains and I think she should have gone for it. It would further lend itself to the world-beat theme of the album. Ive heard that she released a video collection called Come In From The Cold. It had a video of Beat of Black Wings. Was this an actual video or just a live performance. Does anyone have information on this. I really think that Paprika Plains would have made a great short film. More to come later. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:37:38 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: Soul (sjc) Sherelle-you described exactly how i percieve 'soul'. However, I have been under the inpression for a long time, and it was reinforced whent he discussion about Joni's appeal to people of colour mentioned this 'soul' that she has and implied again that it is a'black' thing. I have heard many people say that Dusty sounds like a black person when she sings because she has soul.. Not to my ears she doesn't(sound black i mean). Rick Astley has been described as sounding like Barry White which is utter tosh. he has a deep voice that is it. I think the idea that people of a given race perform with more 'soul' is ridiculous, racist and sopported by those who might know better if they thought about it. It's funny, if you say a balck person is good at athletics because of their race, you lose your job, but if you say a black sings well because they are black and therefore sing with more feeling, people agree with you!! I think both are equally ignorant. John would tell you that Jessye Norman and Janet Baker have soul. I would tell you that a cat on heat sounds better. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:50:12 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: Bigots and otherwise I also am amused by the use of the term "dysfunctional family". I hear it used day in and day out. To me it is redundant. :) do you mean becasue most families are? bw colin-who wishes he was a little white man sitting at this pc-at leats width ways! Happy birthday to you Lori....... :) Peace......Sharon in Wisconsin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:57:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures it is an actual clip, with joni as a black guy, though not the pimpish kind of guy on the cover of djrd. there is some choreographed stuff by somebody famous, and joni in profile behind a screen. i wonder if any of the dancers is joni. wallyk - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Lazyasz@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Julio de 2001 08:29 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Some thoughts on Joni and movies and pictures Ive heard that she released a video collection called Come In From The Cold. It had a video of Beat of Black Wings. Was this an actual video or just a live performance. Does anyone have information on this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:03:33 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Re: black folk into joni J.R. Mills wrote: <> These comments were made by Mel Lastman, the mayor of Toronto, surrounding this city's bid for the 2008 Olympics, not by the prime minister. We are all embarrassed that Lastman got to be mayor in the first place. His comment about Africans boiling him in a pot belies the fact that Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. FYI, there will be a demonstration here next week calling for the mayor's resignation. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:14:20 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: A new Joni for Foni !!! Dear friends, I thought I'd let you know that after endless auditions we now have a new singer. Her name is Sam Weeks - she is a lovely person, a real Joni fan, and has a beautiful voice which is more true to Joni's songs than we've ever heard. Vikki Clayton will still do the September gigs with us, but we hope to "unveil" Sam at the festival on Sept.1st. It's great to have such a positive outcome following a period of real uncertainty. Love to all. Clive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:20:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Shake the Willy Anna had me fooled too. That Mackie is one sick puppy. How could anyone ever say this list is boring? - --- "J. R. Mills" wrote: > I find this hilarious...an absolute panic! You had > me going for a moment > there. lol! Anna Karenina indeed. Rotfl! That > "HEjira@aol.com" person may > well have made their move too soon...we're lively > now, aren't we? I love > this list. > > -Julius > > > > The 'ruby in a black man's ear' which is correctly > attributed to > > Shakepeare does not have a literal meaning in the > play Othello. It > > actually refers to something rather different...an > erect penis. It > > was an allusion used often by Willy the Shake > (which seems to have a > > different conotation now). Actually, this is my > vain attempt to be > > humourous and I just made it up. Please someone > find this vaguely > > amusing...I am trying to lighten > up..honest...honest... > > > > Anna Karenina Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:17:49 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Lively Up The List (was UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE) Oh my god!!! I can not stop the tears from laughter! Thanks Don!!!! Heather At 10:39 AM 7/18/01 -0700, Don Rowe wrote: >--- HeJlRa@aol.com wrote: > > This list is too boring for my tastes! > >To lively up the list, and make it more to your >tastes, please select the phrase of your choice below >and post it to the list (as directed, where >indicated): > >1. The Hinton biography should be considered The Holy >Bible when talking about Joni's life and career. > >2. Everything Jackson Browne alleged about "Not To >Blame" was true. > >3. The best thing Joni has ever done, or continues to >do, is smoke constantly. > >4. George W. Bush won the Presidential election fair >and square. (do NOT label this post NJC) > >5. Joni Mitchell would not be considered the icon >that she is today were it not for the production >contributions of Thomas Dolby & Larry Klein. > >6. Joni's okay, but Banarama ... now THERE was a >band! > >7. Homosexuality is a manifestation of Original Sin >which an be overcome through prayer. > >8. There is/is not a penis on the cover of Hejira >(make your selection based on what you see or don't) > >9. "For The Roses" is a mere collection of pop >throwaway ditties compared to "Hejira". > >10. "Hejira" is a boring bunch of navel-gazing >anthems compared to "For The Roses." > >11. Joni's a great poet, but she's not half the >singer Yoko Ono is. > >12. The only song Joni Mitchell ever wrote that said >anything even remotely relevant is "Dancin' Clown." > >It is our sincere hope that these primers will steer >the overall tenor of the list traffic in a direction >more to your liking. > >Don Rowe > > >===== >Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:26:59 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Lively Up The List (was UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE) This list is a classic and should be archived! (the Rev) Vince, still LOL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:30:28 -0500 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Mayor of Toronto Sorry, Jim, if we Americans have to be stuck with a moron as president of our whole country for the next four years, I think it grossly unfair for you to be able to get rid of one lousy moronic mayor. >These comments were made by Mel Lastman, the mayor of Toronto, >surrounding this city's bid for the 2008 Olympics, not by the prime >minister. We are all embarrassed that Lastman got to be mayor in the >first place. His comment about Africans boiling him in a pot belies the >fact that Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. >FYI, there will be a demonstration here next week calling for the >mayor's resignation. > >Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:33:11 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Re: Soul (sjc) what a boring world this would be without color. heather At 04:22 PM 7/19/01 -0400, RobSher50@aol.com wrote: >Dear Colin: >In my mind, soul does not have a color because it comes from within. Others >have tried to label it and categorize it towards a particular color, but it's >essence has more to do with "feeling." > >Dusty Springfield was one of the most "soulful" singers I know who doesn't >fit the traditional "mold" society has created for this term. Tom Jones, in >my opinion has soul. Sting has soul. Janis Joplin had soul. Carlos Santana >has soul. The lead singer from Matchbox 20, Rob Thomas has soul. Gwen >Steffani has soul. Cyndi Lauper has soul. KD Lang has soul. Sade has soul. >Jill Scott has soul. Dave Matthews has soul. Ann(sp?) DiFranco has soul. In >the music business, it is also referred to as "it," an unexplainable term >which translates into record sales. In this case, the beauty of soul has been >downgraded into monetary terms. The industry has further diluted "it" by >packaging it up all neat and pretty and including components that have >absolutely nothing to do with a person's raw talent. > >There are many people in the music industry with "talent," the ability to >sing, write, or dance. Packaged with a pretty face and nice (though skimpy) >clothes, they do very well. However, the element of soul has the ability to >transcend from the performer to the listener in a way that is very hard to >describe. It has nothing to do with color. When Aretha Franklin was aptly >named, "The Queen of Soul,'" and James Brown was dubbed, "the Godfather of >soul," I think society started to naturally associated the term with black >artists. > >Soul comes from experience and a need to communicate that experience. When I >hear a sad Irish ballad, I can feel soul in that song. I feel the soul in a >Native American chant over what was lost by a nation. Joan Baez sang a song >called "Joe Hill" long ago which touched me to the roots. It was a song about >the Union and the awful things which made it necessary in the 20's to start >it. > >Joni's soul comes from her experience with life and with love. It comes from >the need to communicate the hurt, the pain, and the joy she has felt all of >her life. Soul takes courage to communicate because you expose your heart to >another human being when you do it. You strip yourself bare. > >Without rambling further, I hope this answers your question that soul, in my >opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with color, but has everything to do >with being brave enough to share your heart with others. > >Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:16:04 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: NYRO, NYRO, NYRO! I think Laura Nyro was second only to Joni and maybe Bob Dylan. In fact, Nyro even transcended Joni in some ways. I would go so far as to say that until Joni produced "Blue," Laura was more mature and profound. If you love Joni and you're unfamiliar with Nyro's classic trilogy of albums--"Eli And The Thirteenth Confession" (1968), "New York Tendaberry" (1969), and "Christmas And The Beads Of Sweat" (1970)-- I suggest you RUN to get them...NOW! - -Billy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:21:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: [Jonifest2001] Joni's Medicinewheel - --- rosemjoy@aol.com wrote: > > Hi guys! > Jim Johanson from JoniMitchell.com was kind enough > to share this little > drawing that Joni had done when she signed his > Voices book at the Mendel > Gallery. So with his permission, I've > attached it here on Catgirl's site. Now what do you > suppose all this means? > Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm not > too up on Native American > Spirituality, but I'm sure gonna do some research. I'm not really up on Native American spirituality either, but Joni used the medicine wheel in the Painting with words and music video. Her stage is set up in the round and she explains the reason for this, as well as what the four directions (NSEW) are supposed to represent - I forget who was what, (it's on the drawing which, of course, I can't see as I'm typing this), but the four directions are supposed represent the four major races - white, black, yellow and red (what?? only four races??). They also represent various parts of the human psyche (or whatever you want to call it) - as laid out in her drawing. I have no idea whether or not this is *real* native spirituality or not, but Joni says it is. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:22:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NYRO, NYRO, NYRO! i couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!!! laura nyro is .. i don't have words to describe her. she was absolutely the FIRST ONE. no one comes close. and billy, from laura to you: ''biiiiiiiiiiiiiiill i love you so, i always will...'' wallyK, who loves laura, joni and rickie and can live with it. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Wtking59@cs.com Enviado el: Jueves, 19 de Julio de 2001 11:16 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: NYRO, NYRO, NYRO! I think Laura Nyro was second only to Joni and maybe Bob Dylan. In fact, Nyro even transcended Joni in some ways. I would go so far as to say that until Joni produced "Blue," Laura was more mature and profound. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:09:01 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness amen on 7/19/01 11:32 AM, colin at colin@tantra-apso.com wrote: > -------Original Message------- > From: Michael Paz > Date: 19 July 2001 18:50:16 > To: colin; JRMCo1@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: joni line [sjc]/ blackness > Colin- > Thanks and I get what you mean here. I forgot to mention that during my > childhood and adolecence that I also was persecuted for being shy, quiet, > and somewhat feminine in my demeanour. If I had a dime for everytime I was > called queer, faggot, nigger, etc. I could buy peoples tolerance. > > > DITTO > > > > If your > natural mom was Spanish then you are mixed (therefore one of us ;-) > > that is how i see myself-as mixed. My mother comes from spanish, greek, > african, celtic background, my father from english/irish. > > > But I take it you are fair skinned, which is something I will never know > what that feels like. > > I am not sure what you mean by fair skinned. I ahev balck hari and an olive > skin which if out in the sun goes very dark-dark enough that when I first > came to the UK from Australia, people thought I was asian. However, my skin > is white white as we don't get much sun here(!) and I have no patience for > sun bathing. Besides, i like to look younger than my 20/22 years! > > > and have learned that loving and > caring for all mankind is the true path to follow. > > > and the hardest! > > bw > colin ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #222 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?