From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #219 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, July 17 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 219 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: July 16 [les@jmdl.com] Re: "Thoroughfare," "Thoroughbred," self-introduction, miscellanea. [SCJo] re: RE: aging punk in lotusland [greenstudio@sympatico.ca] re: RE: aging punk in lotusland [greenstudio@sympatico.ca] Dorothy Parker ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Joni at Mariposa [Steve Polifka ] New Joni Book [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Fwd: The Mermaid Cafe ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Prince having Joni affectations? [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] Re: Joni at Mariposa [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni at Mariposa [Alison E ] Re: Joni at Mariposa ["Kakki" ] RE: joni on cobain ["blonde in the bleachers" ] FW: joni on cobain ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: Joni at Mariposa ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] RE: joni on cobain ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: Joni at Mariposa ["J. R. Mills" ] RE: Dorothy Parker ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: joni on cobain [Don Rowe ] RE: Joni at Mariposa ["Wally Kairuz" ] ebay: premium vinyl C&S, 100% JC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" > Well then, Tim, here's an official "welcome"! << Bob "SCJoniguy": I haven't forgotten; I still plan to dub for you Paul Winter Consort performing "Both Sides Now" and send it,>> No need; I've already picked it up, but thanks just the same for the offer. BUT do send that "Jungle Line"....I'm beggin' ya'! I'll be glad to dub from your source recording and return it to you. <> That'll be fine...ALL volumes are available to whomever needs/wants them... <> Hitchcock? I've heard of Dave Alvin...Perhaps that is the one to which our correspondent refers. ;~D Bob NP: Counting Crows, "A Murder of One" ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 2001 17:34:38 -0500 From: greenstudio@sympatico.ca Subject: re: RE: aging punk in lotusland below find responses to a desciption of the christening I posted online last night...love those jmlders. See you later tonight. Mom's bringing me out. Boyfriend's back... > ** Original Subject: RE: aging punk in lotusland > ** Original Sender: "Wally Kairuz" > ** Original Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:36:51 -0400 > ** Original Message follows... > > jesus, it must be hell living in a place like that! keep the cam and buy > some comfort food, for god's sake! > > wallyK, my mom used to make frittata when we didn't have any money because > she's italian and all the gentrified italian food you eat nowadays is just > peasant italian food that we were embarrassed to eat when we were kids. we > are poor again in argentina so we'll be eating a lot of polenta and frittata > by and by. >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > greenstudio ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 2001 17:33:13 -0500 From: greenstudio@sympatico.ca Subject: re: RE: aging punk in lotusland below find responses to a desciption of the christening I posted online last night...love those jmlders. See you later tonight. Mom's bringing me out. Boyfriend's back... > ** Original Subject: RE: aging punk in lotusland > ** Original Sender: "Wally Kairuz" > ** Original Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:36:51 -0400 > ** Original Message follows... > > jesus, it must be hell living in a place like that! keep the cam and buy > some comfort food, for god's sake! > > wallyK, my mom used to make frittata when we didn't have any money because > she's italian and all the gentrified italian food you eat nowadays is just > peasant italian food that we were embarrassed to eat when we were kids. we > are poor again in argentina so we'll be eating a lot of polenta and frittata > by and by. >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > greenstudio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:17:39 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Dorothy Parker Laurent wrote: The first cd that came to mind was Sirn o the Times. This might be because he mentions her in Dorothy Parker and this is also my favorite Prince cd. Before I comment on Dorothy Parker, I want to thank all of you for responding, privately and publicly to my one and only post. :) Dorothy Parker was an amazing woman and Gloria Steinem did her Master's thesis on Parker. Steinem told a great story about Parker who was a member of the Algonquin Round Table discussion group. Whenever they met they would play a game whereby a person was given a word and they would have to use that word in a sentence. Parker was given the word "horticulture". She said "You can lead a whore to culture but you can not make her think" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:13:00 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Hey Jerry, Tell us more! How can you just tease us with: >And I was there. My first time seeing Joni. Went early and heard >her tuning up playing California on her dulcimer. I almost jumped >out of my skin with excitement! >Jerry Sheesh! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:27:49 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: New Joni Book Here's some info about the new Joni book due out in the UK in the autumn, as we say here. Shadows and light: a biography of Joni Mitchell, by Karen O'Brien. Published by Virgin Books, October 2001. ISBN 1852279761 Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:35:52 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Fwd: The Mermaid Cafe http://www.delta-sky.com/editorial/features/holiday/default.htm Harry83house@aol.com wrote: > > Maybe someone already has it out there and can post it for all. You guys and > gals all seem so sweet...love reading my "jmdl" in the morning over coffee. > Roberta Joan Rules! Bye, Harry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:08:49 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Prince having Joni affectations? In a message dated 7/16/01 2:22:25 AM Central Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Could anyone recommend which Prince cd to listen to as far as being the most inspired by Joni?> >> Well, that's such a hard question to answer because Joni had such an influence on Prince that it totally steered him in the direction of finding a hybrid of rock and soul that was completely his own (hence Joni's struggle with folk and jazz).........Lyrically as well, Joni has completely inspired him. Joni's vocals jumps into soprano (Prince's jumps into soprano), Joni's layers and layers of background vocals (Prince's layers of background vocals), Joni's experimental use of the synthesizer (Prince's etc.....) I think the song that inspired Prince the most was "Shadows and Light"..........his tribute "God" can be found on the The Hits/B-Sides collection.....and it's really interesting to hear his song because it's so obviously inspired by Joni. I remember hearing "God" on the original B-side to "Purple Rain" back in 1984 (when i was 5 yrs old.....I still have the purple vinyl) and I thought it was chilling........when I heard "Shadows and Light" a whole 17 years later, I was like "whoa.......Prince ripped this off!)... I really don't think there is a Joni-influenced album of his.......the closest that comes to mind would be PARADE or maybe SIGN O' THE TIMES. "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and "Starfish and Coffee" are definite tributes. PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:09:11 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Steve Polifka wrote: > Hey Jerry, > Tell us more! How can you just tease us with: > > >And I was there. My first time seeing Joni. Went early and heard >her > tuning up playing California on her dulcimer. I almost jumped >out of my > skin with excitement! Since I've had a couple of requests to expand, including from Les, I'll explain. The memory is unclear as it will be from years and the trip itself. I had a college radio DJ friend named Sonny Williams who was the only Black guy I knew well up to that point. He was very tall, wore dark shades at night, and wore custom leather belted suits. He would unroll his filter tipped Kool cigarettes and crumble hashish into the tobacco. Then we would smoke them anywhere and get real high. Back then you could smoke anywhere. He was very exotic to this white boy, and probably gay, but we didn't talk about those things back then. He asked if I wanted to go to the Mariposa Folk festival because he knew I was a freak for Joni. He had free tickets and backstage privileges as a dj. Of course it was last minute. We jumped in my 1969 Kharman Ghia and headed for Toronto from Buffalo. We picked up 2 guys on The Queen Elizabeth Highway. We of course were smoking Sonny's Kool cigarettes, and they offered some acid, which we gleefully took. I got very high very fast and had to let Sonny drive. I was very impressed with Sonny's driving, until he complained about the little man riding along on the fender. We made it safely to Toronto and took the ferry over to the islands. I was getting higher by the minute and very pissed at myself. We went to the stage area which was outdoors, and hear a dulcimer. In the middle of nowhere, all alone was Joni tuning her dulcimer and singing California. I thought I had died and gone to heaven, a once in a lifetime mix of acid. The Mariposa Folk Festival is truly folk, not just Greenwich Village folk with all kinds of ethnic performances. It was all druggy blur after that, but I remember how spellbound everyone was when Joni performed that night. She was very much thought of as a home town girl back then. Was it really 29 years ago??!!! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:24:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I got very high very fast and had to let Sonny > drive. I was very > impressed with Sonny's driving, until he complained > about the little man > riding along on the fender. oh, i know that little man well. LMAO! alison e. in nyc np: joni, WTRF, man to man, which is an impeccably beautiful song, and man! the harmonies. "i stick my nose up in the air......" ohhh, i love it. and everytime this discussion comes up, i put in WTRF and reconfirm for myself that it is a complete and full and unique piece of beauty. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:22:27 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Thanks Jerry - that was great! I could just picture you all. Do you have any photos from the adventure? Btw, my cousin had a new, green '69 Kharman Ghia for awhile but had to cash it in when he decided to move to Northern Cal and become a hippie for awhile ;-) Cute cars but you rarely see them anymore. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:50:29 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: RE: joni on cobain I can understand your problem with people who committ suicide, but I can't say that I don't have sympathy for them. Suicide ruins the lives of those people they leave behind, no doubt, but consider the amount of pain someone must be in to do that in the first place. Being part of what people like to label "Generation X" Kurt Cobain's death was a horrible event. Nirvana and Cobain changed the landscape of music in the 90s and brought back music that was original and music that had something to say. His death is as much a milestone as that of Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin or Jim Morrison. Obviously Cobain had some serious problems, i.e drugs, Courtney Love, fame but to say that the material possesions he collected and his money was a reason to live is somewhat shallow. Money can buy you a lot of things, and can give you opportunities that others may not have but it can't buy you peace of mind. >From: "Donna J. Binkley" >Reply-To: "Donna J. Binkley" >To: "'susan+rick'" , >Subject: RE: joni on cobain >Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:29:25 -0500 > >Sorry - but i have no sympathy for people who commit suicide. There's a >saying that goes "those who commit suicide don't end their pain, they leave >it on the shoulders of those who they left behind". The only man i ever >might have married shot himself right in front of me almost 20 years ago, >his family will never be the same, that night changed the course of my life >forever. > >No doubt Cobain was a troubled spirit, but reality check, um let's see, i'm >a millionaire, i'm at the pinnacle of my career, i have everything that most >people don't even get in their whole lifetime - think i'll OFF MYSELF!! > >Sorry if this offends anyone, that is not my intention, but i had to speak >up. > >Donna > >-----Original Message----- >From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of susan+rick >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:43 PM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: joni on cobain > > >Bob wrote: > >"I'm a runaway from the record biz > >From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" > > >I'm sure based on what she said about Kurt she would put him in that latter > >category, he might have even inspired the lyric! > >I hope that Joni didn't have Cobain in mind when she wrote those lyrics. >Cobain's songs are not whiney, they are expressions of a very troubled mind. >He wasn't a rich kid playing at angst but a talented musician who suffered >from depression and drug addiction and ended his life despite (because of?) >success. > >While Joni can be irritating and arrogant, I choose to believe that she is >not that insensitive. For now anyway. > >Ranger Rick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:26:12 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Fwd: The Mermaid Cafe Thanks Harry and Brenda! What a great article - I hope Joni got sent a copy! Kakki > http://www.delta-sky.com/editorial/features/holiday/default.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:59:56 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: FW: joni on cobain - -----Original Message----- From: Donna J. Binkley [mailto:djb@binkleybarfield.com] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:23 AM To: 'AsharaJM@aol.com' Subject: RE: joni on cobain Thank you Ashara. And to everyone who has replied. Just so you all know, i am the last one to be unsympathetic toward clinical depression. In l982, we didn't have a name for it, neither he or i knew what to do about it, or even what was really wrong. If there was help to be had, we didn't know about it. I love this list because it's so interesting to read our many different opinions on various subjects. And by the way, WTRF was my "Joni got me through it" album for that particular tragedy, it was fairly new at the time. Love to all, Sign me, Hopping, falling, no being knocked off the soap box - ha ha Donna -----Original Message----- From: AsharaJM@aol.com [mailto:AsharaJM@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:56 AM To: djb@binkleybarfield.com Subject: RE: joni on cobain <> Oh Donna, I am so very sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:08:39 -0400 From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Kakki wrote: > Thanks Jerry - that was great! I could just picture you all. Do you have > any photos from the adventure? I surely would have lost the camera! > > > Btw, my cousin had a new, green '69 Kharman Ghia for awhile but had to cash > it in when he decided to move to Northern Cal and become a hippie for awhile > ;-) Cute cars but you rarely see them anymore. Mine was British Racing Green with tan leatherette interior. I loved that car, except for the lack of heat! My friends used to joke that you knew winter had come when you saw Jerry scraping the Inside of his windshield. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:14:10 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: joni on cobain Well i tried to send a post to all earlier, but i don't think it made it for some reason. Apparently my feelings on this subject have touched many people on this list - and not in that warm fuzzy place either. The reasons i feel as i do have nothing to do with lack of sympathy for those afflicted by depression. There's a LOT, LOT more to it than i wrote in that post because this isn't a list about my life so i didn't think i should bore everyone - and i won't. I feel that each of us has a right to their opinion, that just happens to be mine. I respect and appreciate all the responses i've gotten. Donna -----Original Message----- From: blonde in the bleachers [mailto:blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 2:50 PM To: djb@binkleybarfield.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: joni on cobain I can understand your problem with people who committ suicide, but I can't say that I don't have sympathy for them. Suicide ruins the lives of those people they leave behind, no doubt, but consider the amount of pain someone must be in to do that in the first place. Being part of what people like to label "Generation X" Kurt Cobain's death was a horrible event. Nirvana and Cobain changed the landscape of music in the 90s and brought back music that was original and music that had something to say. His death is as much a milestone as that of Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin or Jim Morrison. Obviously Cobain had some serious problems, i.e drugs, Courtney Love, fame but to say that the material possesions he collected and his money was a reason to live is somewhat shallow. Money can buy you a lot of things, and can give you opportunities that others may not have but it can't buy you peace of mind. >From: "Donna J. Binkley" >Reply-To: "Donna J. Binkley" >To: "'susan+rick'" , >Subject: RE: joni on cobain >Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:29:25 -0500 > >Sorry - but i have no sympathy for people who commit suicide. There's a >saying that goes "those who commit suicide don't end their pain, they leave >it on the shoulders of those who they left behind". The only man i ever >might have married shot himself right in front of me almost 20 years ago, >his family will never be the same, that night changed the course of my life >forever. > >No doubt Cobain was a troubled spirit, but reality check, um let's see, i'm >a millionaire, i'm at the pinnacle of my career, i have everything that most >people don't even get in their whole lifetime - think i'll OFF MYSELF!! > >Sorry if this offends anyone, that is not my intention, but i had to speak >up. > >Donna > >-----Original Message----- >From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of susan+rick >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:43 PM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: joni on cobain > > >Bob wrote: > >"I'm a runaway from the record biz > >From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" > > >I'm sure based on what she said about Kurt she would put him in that latter > >category, he might have even inspired the lyric! > >I hope that Joni didn't have Cobain in mind when she wrote those lyrics. >Cobain's songs are not whiney, they are expressions of a very troubled mind. >He wasn't a rich kid playing at angst but a talented musician who suffered >from depression and drug addiction and ended his life despite (because of?) >success. > >While Joni can be irritating and arrogant, I choose to believe that she is >not that insensitive. For now anyway. > >Ranger Rick - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:13:23 -0700 From: "J. R. Mills" Subject: Re: Joni at Mariposa Fabulous Joni/early 70s anecdote, Jerry. I feel like *I* was there now. Lord knows I've been "expericenced" though, as Jimi would say, if you know what I mean. It says something, although I can't explain exactly what, that so many of us Black folk have been so into Joni for so long. I can't think of many other white artists who have that kind of cross-over appeal, with the possible exception of maybe Janis and Laura Nyro. - -Julius np: Townes Van Zandt - "If I Needed You" (And Hoping the very gifted Alison E. in NYC will duet this one with me in Topsfield, if I make it there after all.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:19:39 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dorothy Parker but this is so amazing!!!!! i started reading her complete works last night!!! what synchro! by the way, i am pretty sure that I AM dorothy parker. wallyK >>>>>>>>>>>>> Parker was given the word "horticulture". She said "You can lead a whore to culture but you can not make her think" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:46:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: joni on cobain - --- blonde in the bleachers > Nirvana and Cobain changed the > landscape of music in the > 90s and brought back music that was original and > music that had something > to say. His death is as much a milestone as that of > Jimi Hendrix, Janis > Joplin or Jim Morrison. I'm genuinely curious about this. To me, Nirvana is a band that produced, at best, one or two half-decent albums. In addition to himself, Cobain also managed to kill the use of real musical dynamics in rock music. The grunge musical equation of "heavy distortion = Chorus" is today, as cliche as the guitar licks and panty-dancers of the pop-metal bands they were reacting to. In fact, there's a credible argument to be made that Cobain & Co. ushered in the precipitous fall of Rock's overall appeal as a genre to it's lowest levels in history. That the major label publicity machine attempted to counteract this by making Cobain's suicide look like some kind of martyrdom to rock 'n roll creativity, and that so many people subsequently bought into it, simply escapes me. In any case, there's hardly a legacy to equal the likes of Hendrix & Joplin ... though I'll grant you that Morrison's self-indulgence makes a somewhat better comparison. Just my take on it ... and one for which I'll beg forgiveness if I've seemed a bit harsh. I really would like to hear what others think about it. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:13:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni at Mariposa what a cool cool cool story!!!!!!! i loved it, notaro! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jerry Notaro Enviado el: Lunes, 16 de Julio de 2001 04:09 p.m. Para: Steve Polifka CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Joni at Mariposa Since I've had a couple of requests to expand, including from Les, I'll explain. The memory is unclear as it will be from years and the trip itself. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:18:08 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: ebay: premium vinyl C&S, 100% JC There's an auction of ebay of Joni's remarkable and accessible "Court and Spark". http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1447344353 As usual, I'll state that, while this record can not be faulted on artistic merit, some tape edits are easily heard and the sonic clarity (even on this superior Nautilus 1/2 speed pressing) does not equal the majesty, the spine-tingling, the breathtaking purity of a nice copy of "For The Roses" on a nice British or Scottish turntable. Anyway, someone will really enjoy this........ Lama ps- I also recommend the 1/2 speed version of "Dreamboat Annie", also up for auction. I never heard the regular pressing but I wouldn't trade my 1/2 speed copy...... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #219 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?