From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #214 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, July 13 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 214 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: July 12 [les@jmdl.com] Re: joni on cobain [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni, WTRF, and drugs [Steve Polifka ] Observations [scmorris ] Shawn & Larry SJC [Whizzboom@aol.com] Re: Observations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) ["Donna J. Binkley" ] joni, 80's, popularity ["shane mattison" ] Re: Observations ["Bill Dollinger" ] RE: Joni Parody - National Lampoon ["Deb Messling" ] Jonifest Update: THE LIST!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Catgirl on Joni Only [CaT627@cs.com] Re: Jonifest Update: THE LIST!!! [CaT627@cs.com] Re: joni on cobain [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Joni Parody - National Lampoon [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs [Randy Remote ] Re: Observations/Joni cover performances ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs [dsk ] Re: joni, 80's, popularity ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 03:07:16 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: July 12 On July 12 in Joni Mitchell History: 1983: Joni performs at the CNE Bandshell in Toronto. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Toronto83.html 1993: From Wally's Bio Page: [Today], Joni made an appearance at the Beverly Hilton in Hollywood at comic legend Milton Berle's 86th birthday party. She sang "Night Ride Home" in front of a roomful of comedians and Hollywood legends. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/BerleBirthday93.html - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:25:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni on cobain Hi Paul, and welcome...even though you may bolt after you got your question answered, I would encourage you to stick it out awhile. I'm on 5 different music lists, and the Joni group is FAR & AWAY the best one... It's probably also worth noting that in Joni's last record of original material, she wrote: "I'm a runaway from the record biz From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" I'm sure based on what she said about Kurt she would put him in that latter category, he might have even inspired the lyric! Bob NP: Elliott Smith, "sweet adeline" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:14:35 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Joni, WTRF, and drugs Debras sShea wrote: >I can't join the WTRF-bashing club either, however, since I >like the energy of >that cd. It's not a favorite or one of her best but I think >it's great that >Joni was so wildly in love that she was crazed (or maybe it >was drugs... I >don't know... I much prefer the love idea... drugs don't >always produce >euphoric feelings the way early love can). I think Joni >somewhere said it's >much more difficult to write happy songs and WTRF shows that >to be the case. >Why ponder relationships enough to write complex lyrics when >life is so >completely enjoyable? Who wants to (or can) dissect that? So, >stuck in the >middle of her collection of cds about romantic angst and >melancholy and being >hypercritical is this aberration with lyrics so lightweight >they're downright >silly sometimes. It does have some snappy tunes, though, and I >can enjoy it >for that. Solid Love is one of my favorites because of the >sheer joy of it and >the way the lyrics twist within the music, which is typical >Joni. >I wonder what we'd all think of this album if it had been done >by anyone other >than Joni. My guess is it would be more highly regarded, or at >least >appreciated as a decent pop album. >Debra Shea Hear, hear! ;-) I loved WTRF. It was so refreshing for her to be happy, and sing about it! When my friend Terri heard it for the first time, and heard Larry Klien's double and triple line bass playing on YDFT, she said- sounds just like the kind of thing she did 10 years ago, with her strange chords and progressions, only the 80's version. I had to agree. Joni's style is all over that album, but you just have to listen thru all the frosting to hear it. As a songwriter, its so hard to pop out of the mold you have created for yourself. I've only recently noticed that I have. Even Stevie Nicks once said that the same chords came out every time she sat at the piano. (I hate that when that happens! LOL!) Joni has occasionally, but like Debra mentioned, it was great to finally hear HER again with NRH. Another fave of mine- (after 2 Grey Rooms, how could it not be?) There are albums of hers that I don't listen to often. Heck, there are some songs I don't listen to at all. All I know is that when it comes to those recordings, that's where she was at the time, and I at this point in my life, I can't relate. At some point in time I had loved some of them. Now they don't touch me as much or at all. But part of her is in each and every one of those songs, and they are forever Joni, sharing herself with us in them. Thank you, Joni... NPIMH: Number One My new JM Tee shirt: Everything I know about life I learned from Joni Mitchell Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:02:30 -0600 From: scmorris Subject: Observations Hi everyone So my good friend gave me a book called Joni Mitchell: The Complete Poems and Lyrics (I'm sure everyone here has heard of it). I look at it every night before I go to bed and its especially nice to get away from the music and enjoy the text. Just having bought Clouds, I was reading through Roses Blue and what really struck me was how much it reminded me of Freudian free association. My favorite song of the moment (The Gallery) struck me with its genius. She changes a couple words within the chorus and the whole meaning has changed. WOW!!! Another one of my friends was telling me that Shawn Colvin and Joni don't talk to each other because Larry is married to Shawn? I know this is probably gossip but can anyone confirm? I received Bob's covers CD (vol. 18) yesterday and immediately started laughing over the techno version of Both Sides Now. I have to wonder if Joni ever hears these covers and feels violated. Every song I have ever written is like a dear child to me and to hear it skewed in such a way would kill me (figuratively at least):) Stephanie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:29:07 EDT From: Whizzboom@aol.com Subject: Shawn & Larry SJC Steph wrote : "Another one of my friends was telling me that Shawn Colvin and Joni don't talk to each other because Larry is married to Shawn? I know this is probably gossip but can anyone confirm?" Hmm, this is interesting. I always wondered what those 2 were up to, but I'd think if they'd tied the knot, somehow WE'D know about it. My understanding was that Shawn had been married to someone, got divorced, and was now married to John Leventhal. But then I recall reading that JL was married to somebody else and had a family of his own. Who, then, is the father of Shawn's cute baby? Juicy stuff... - -Chris NP: "A Cleaner Light" - Kristen Hersh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:57:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Observations <> Oh, she's crying all the way to the bank! ;~) Given that her entire catalog hasn't outsold Tapestry, I would bet that a lot of Joni's wealth has been from the combined sales of all of those covers. Although probably NOT from that Brother Love Canal version... She discusses going for the "little royalty pennies" early on in her career, and she may have not had a lot of bonafide hits herself, but lordy she has been well-covered, probably only topped by The Beatles & Dylan I would guess in terms of the number of her songs that have been recorded by others. But to get back to what you were saying, she does introduce BSN on her 1983 tour by referring to it as "the child with the most mileage" and that she didn't always approve of the company it kept! ;~) Bob NP: The Smithereens, "Indigo Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:12:44 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) Good point Kakki, but what's their excuse for the fact that those very fashions have re-surfaced and are flooding the clothing market even as we speak! And if anyone watches very much TV, especially cable/satellite, they would probably agree that it would appear that the creators of some of these shows are indeed stoned...I could go so far as to say that it's possible that the "War on Drugs" is a ploy by the television industry to throw the straight people off track of what's really going on over there. OK I'm done. Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Kakki Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 9:12 PM To: MDESTE1@aol.com; azeemak@aol.com; scjoniguy@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) Marcel wrote: > My bet is that Toto bought the blow. Which explains everything from the "disjointedness" of the record to the sounds. Well, I wasn't going to say it - but now that you've brought it up - the first thing I thought on pondering the earlier posts was that perhaps it was WTRF that she was referring to in her drugs quote in LA Weekly this week ;-D I made it through the past several decades without personally partaking of any substance but vividly remember the enormous and excessive amounts (literally a sackful at one) of the stuff at parties and even in clubs in the mid '70s to early '80s. I remember reading an article once where some people were reflecting that the reason some of the '70s movies, TV and fashions were so bad/hideous/mediocre was because everyone was so strung out there for awhile and thought everything they created was just wonderful. Not trying to debate drugs, etc., but I thought the article was somewhat correct! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:10:43 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: an asteroid for Joni next? *** Beatles, Springsteen are stars in the sky, too (Launch) - The Beatles, Bruce Springsteen and Brian Wilson are among the brightest stars in the music world, and now they're "stars" in the sky as well. Last week, the International Astronomical Union - the recognized authority for the naming of celestial bodies -- assigned the names of those legendary musicians, as well as famed record producer Phil Spector, to a group of recently discovered asteroids. The names of asteroids are traditionally reserved for Greek gods, goddesses and other mythological figures, but astronomer Ian Griffin, who discovered the Springsteen asteroid from Auckland, New Zealand, said, "It's a case of honoring the people who inspired our generation." Several asteroids, or "minor planets," were previously named for Elvis Presley, Jerry Garcia, Eric Clapton and Frank Zappa. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:39:48 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: probable inspiration for Black Crow Just came back from amsterdam. Purpose of my trip was Crosby's CPR concert since he didn't play France this tour. The show was fabulous. Highly recommended. (the consensus on Neil Young's Paris + Holland concerts was a little disappointing) While visiting the Van Gogh Museum, stumbled onto a painting with black crowes in a field, no other theme in the painting which is itself titled Black Crows. Since it's pretty obvious Joni was inspired by Van Gogh, I had a sudden hunch that this very painting could very well have been the inspiration for the song. Well I just admired it while mentally singing the song and it fit so perfectly. Maybe this has been covered by other JMDLers before and I apologize if this is the case. At any rate, don't miss the Rijk + Van Gogh museums while in Amsterdam, they are fantastic. Could anyone recommend which Prince CD to listen to as far as being the most inspired by Joni? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:57:15 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: joni on cobain you just have to love bob muller!!!! i wish i had your gift for diplomacy, bob!!! xoxo wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Julio de 2001 09:25 a.m. Para: pharrill@utk.edu CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: joni on cobain Hi Paul, and welcome...even though you may bolt after you got your question answered, I would encourage you to stick it out awhile. I'm on 5 different music lists, and the Joni group is FAR & AWAY the best one... It's probably also worth noting that in Joni's last record of original material, she wrote: "I'm a runaway from the record biz From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" I'm sure based on what she said about Kurt she would put him in that latter category, he might have even inspired the lyric! Bob NP: Elliott Smith, "sweet adeline" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:08:11 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: joni, 80's, popularity of course joni is responsible to herself for the creative decisions made during the 80s... james taylor and others who had shacked up with her testified to feeling inferior on the creative level, when she could drift from guitar to piano to paints... she was, after all, a proved and larger creative than larry klein as well...and so therefore we must give her responsibility for the turn on some tracks in the eighties that tried to be too poppish and therefore failed to meet her full capability... we can't blame him for decisions that she, as SIQUOMB 'president', gave the final o.k.... my intuition is this...joni has said a thousand times she is both a sensitive and a vulnerable person... the press was very unfair in their reviews of her work as well as the industry paparazzi...IMHO, no one who has been so loved and admired before can completely ditch their desire to be popular...even dylan felt too deeply the attacks made on him for his spiritual changes, altering his course accordingly... ...after what was a definite two consecutive masterpiece output in hejira and DJRD and then the attacks on her for mingus, which was really a gift of love to a dying man, it is understandable yet sad that with all the crucifying pressure put on her that she would try to regain some popularity, shown so obviously, not on all tracks, but on some that have left some of the most creative fans wondering why her 80s work was, at least as entire albums, less masterful... ...what the hell, she still put out some songs that seemed better than ever, even on these 80's albums...who else has been so innovatedly inspired over such a long period? i get just as thrilled listening to Man From Mars as anything earlier! i've always maintained that she has always grown, in spite of a few 'discoiee' tracks in the 80's ...she never got as commercially bent as mccartney did, even after he put out some of the greatest songs ever... ...nor do i believe that her early love for klein was induced by substances...there was something unique about their love when compared with earlier attempts...and this songstress and experimenter of love saw something potentially great there...there was alot of hurt in the fallout later on...was he trancing her in all those years? i doubt it...she made choices as we all do, for better or for worse...in many ways i believe she came out more grounded after her relationship with him than before she met him...as a few have pointed out, she seemed pretty scattered around the time of Shadows and Light...i think she found something good, for a few years at least...they each gave something needed to the other, for a while... ...feeling so deeply in life, she seems to have been rewarded at times...even blessed, and as one reviewer noted, a bit like another scorpio rising creative,... goethe, who with all his romances, yet grew wiser with age, like fine wine... ciao to you all, shane www.angelfire.com/art/cactussong ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:13:19 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: Observations Then there is the not-so-subtle version of This Flight Tonight done by Nazareth in the 1970's... bill - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 2:57 PM Subject: Re: Observations <> Oh, she's crying all the way to the bank! ;~) Given that her entire catalog hasn't outsold Tapestry, I would bet that a lot of Joni's wealth has been from the combined sales of all of those covers. Although probably NOT from that Brother Love Canal version... She discusses going for the "little royalty pennies" early on in her career, and she may have not had a lot of bonafide hits herself, but lordy she has been well-covered, probably only topped by The Beatles & Dylan I would guess in terms of the number of her songs that have been recorded by others. But to get back to what you were saying, she does introduce BSN on her 1983 tour by referring to it as "the child with the most mileage" and that she didn't always approve of the company it kept! ;~) Bob NP: The Smithereens, "Indigo Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:29:09 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Joni Parody - National Lampoon I like this parody! First, it's funny, and second, it's an intelligent parody in that it has an inkling of what a (seventies) Joni song was really like. Mostly, when people parody Joni they present a hippie chick singing about rainbows or something. > > hi all - > > i was poking around on the internet today and found that national lampoon > did a ' joni mitchell' parody called ' you put me through hell' . has - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:35:55 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest Update: THE LIST!!! Hi everyone! Here is a new and improved updated list for the New England Labor Day Jonifest 2001: (If you are not in the right category, are missing from this list and want to attend, have decided not to attend (Foolish One!), or I don't have where you are from, please let me know and I will update your status.) As you can see, there is a great crowd of people coming. Don't be left out! If you are hanging on the fence, get your butt off, and join us! Hugs, Ashara **I will be there!!!!!!!!** Ashara and Sal from MA Heather from CT Megan from NY Pearl and Steve from FL Rose from NJ Maggie from MA Nikki from PA Paz from New Orleans Kakki from CA Steve Polifka from WI Lama from KY Wally K. from Argentina Bob Murphy from RI Chris Marshall from England Bob Muller from SC Chuck E. from MA Anne Sandstrom from MA Patrick from NYC Jody from IL Alison E. from NYC Les from CO Julius from CA Stephen from Vancouver Chris from CT Mags from Canada Brian from NJ Jimmy from FL Loren from MD Marcel and Soizic from CA Lori from DC Jeff from NYC Yael from MI Hell from New Zealand Kerry from WI Garett from Ireland Russ from CA Claud from PA John van Tiel from Holland Les Ross from England Kay Ashley from NYC Donna Binkley from TX Ric Welch from MA Sue Cameron from MI Barbara and Steve from CA Catherine McKay from Canada Jody Serkes Willy the Shake Leslie Mixon from CA Susan Guzzi **Maybes** Kammy from Alabammy Debra from NYC Kate and Jeff from CA Terry from MI Steve Mixon from CA Bryan Thomas and Cindy Ferrari from NY Linda Montelione from NY Jacky from England Sue McNamara from NY Jenny Goodspeed from MA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:44:40 EDT From: CaT627@cs.com Subject: Catgirl on Joni Only Wow, How exciting! Two lovely letter from two lovely gentlemen in one day.....Oh I feel faint....one from Wally K. and one from Steve P. Thanks gentlemen. Well, I am on the only joni list so this has to include her. Does anyone have any info. regarding the Joni gathering or whatever up in Canada? I read somewhere that their is a tribute or something that is going on for a couple of months and no I don't mean the one from last year up in Saskatoon. Any info would be great. And, Is it too late to do sign up for Joni Fest up in Boston, or did I miss the performance sign up again like last year? Catgirl..pulling out the ole guitar and wondering, why, why, why? PS anything non Joni anyone would like to ask me just email me off list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:51:34 EDT From: CaT627@cs.com Subject: Re: Jonifest Update: THE LIST!!! In a message dated 7/12/2001 6:42:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: << Hell from New Zealand >> If she is coming all the way over here, then I got to get up there some how. Hell, You have been a wonderful person to me...I gotta meet ya! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:03:33 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: joni on cobain In a message dated 7/12/01 8:31:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << "I'm a runaway from the record biz From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" >> Couldn't one say that some of Joni's song were a bit whiny? I don't think they are, but it's not implausible to view them that way. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:46:16 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Parody - National Lampoon Bruyere wrote: > hi all - > > i was poking around on the internet today and found that national lampoon > did a ' joni mitchell' parody called ' you put me through hell' . has > anyone heard of this? Yeah, the strange thing about it is, it's a Joni parody, but sung by a man, and somehow it still works. It was readily available on Napster, but probably isn't now. It's included in the Rhino 3CD boxset "Buy This Box or We'll Shoot This Dog: The Best of the National Lampoon Radio Hour" , I don't have it and didn't make that up.... > years ago a local college station (suny binghamton) > used to play the national lampoon radio hour but i missed this one. > here's the site: > http://www2.bitstream.net/~marksim/natlamp/nlrh/nlrhshows.html > Great resource on Nat Lamp Radio Hour! They put out an amazing amount of stuff... > ps - does anyone know of any cd pressings of national lampoon stuff? Besides the box set, the only other CD in print is "Gold Turkey: National Lampoon Radio Hour / Greatest Hits" . Natioal Lampoon made, probably 6 or 7 albums in the vinyl days, Radio Dinner is a good one - they all have cool stuff on them, and you can still find them in used vinyl stores etc. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:59:10 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs Great post... Can't argue with any of this but I wonder why WTRF gets catagorized as a 'happy' album....the title track is about loss, only three of the songs really qualify as happy... Solid Love You're So Square Underneath the Streetlight Three are philosophical: Be Cool Moon At the Window Love The rest deal with more complex emotional themes: Chinese Cafe WTRF Ladies' Man (written for Tim Meadows?) You Dream Flat Tires Man To Man On second thought, 3 positive songs DOES sort of make it Joni's 'happy' album ; ) RR dsk wrote: > I can't join the WTRF-bashing club either, however, since I like the energy of > that cd. It's not a favorite or one of her best but I think it's great that > Joni was so wildly in love that she was crazed (or maybe it was drugs... I > don't know... I much prefer the love idea... drugs don't always produce > euphoric feelings the way early love can). I think Joni somewhere said it's > much more difficult to write happy songs and WTRF shows that to be the case. > Why ponder relationships enough to write complex lyrics when life is so > completely enjoyable? Who wants to (or can) dissect that? So, stuck in the > middle of her collection of cds about romantic angst and melancholy and being > hypercritical is this aberration with lyrics so lightweight they're downright > silly sometimes. It does have some snappy tunes, though, and I can enjoy it > for that. Solid Love is one of my favorites because of the sheer joy of it and > the way the lyrics twist within the music, which is typical Joni. > > I wonder what we'd all think of this album if it had been done by anyone other > than Joni. My guess is it would be more highly regarded, or at least > appreciated as a decent pop album. > > Debra Shea > > NP: the David Letterman Show... he may be very weird but I like him a lot. > His attitude-based humor makes me laugh much more than the one-liners of > supposedly good guy Jay Leno ever do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:30:10 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Observations/Joni cover performances SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > <> > > Oh, she's crying all the way to the bank! ;~) > > Given that her entire catalog hasn't outsold Tapestry, I would bet that a lot of Joni's wealth has been from the combined sales of all of those covers. Although probably NOT from that Brother Love Canal version... > > She discusses going for the "little royalty pennies" early on in her career, and she may have not had a lot of bonafide hits herself, but lordy she has been well-covered, probably only topped by The Beatles & Dylan I would guess in terms of the number of her songs that have been recorded by others. The greater portion of her wealth would have come from those songs being played on the radio, on television, in movies etc. Mechanical royalties from record sales are a pittance compared to that. Both Sides Now has had 4 million performances. Big Yellow Taxi has had 1 million performances. Help Me has had 1 million performances. Woodstock has had 1 million performances. Together these total the same amount as the most performed BMI song ever - - "You've Lost That Loving Feeling". Holland/Dozier/Holland, Paul Simon, Elton John and the Eagles are probably the only other BMI writers besides the Beatles who surpass her in broadcast performances. Dylan is an ASCAP writer and they don't have the same info available from what I can tell. Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:43:09 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: joni on cobain Bob wrote: >"I'm a runaway from the record biz >From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" >I'm sure based on what she said about Kurt she would put him in that latter >category, he might have even inspired the lyric! I hope that Joni didn't have Cobain in mind when she wrote those lyrics. Cobain's songs are not whiney, they are expressions of a very troubled mind. He wasn't a rich kid playing at angst but a talented musician who suffered from depression and drug addiction and ended his life despite (because of?) success. While Joni can be irritating and arrogant, I choose to believe that she is not that insensitive. For now anyway. Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:06:37 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs > Great post... > Can't argue with any of this but I wonder why WTRF gets catagorized > as a 'happy' album....the title track is about loss, only three of the > songs really qualify as happy... > Solid Love > You're So Square > Underneath the Streetlight > Three are philosophical: > Be Cool > Moon At the Window > Love > The rest deal with more complex emotional themes: > Chinese Cafe > WTRF > Ladies' Man (written for Tim Meadows?) > You Dream Flat Tires > Man To Man > On second thought, 3 positive songs DOES sort of make it Joni's > 'happy' album ; ) > RR What a relief! I thought I was going to have to make this point all over again! As Randy says there are 3, count 'em, 3 love-happy songs on WTRF (and Joni didn't even write one of them). I'm listening to WTRF as I write this. I've never considered it one of my favorites but listening to it tonight I think it's a damn good record! It doesn't sound like anything I remember hearing on the radio in the 80s (neither do DED or CMIARS for that matter). I think the jazz influence is still very evident on this record (Be Cool, Moon at the Window, Ladies Man and what great things David Lahm did with Solid Love!) Joni's originality and genius are all over this record. I had no idea that Steve Lukather played with Toto but then I never bought any of their records or paid much attention to them. I have to admit, I kinda liked 'Africa' - it was sort of dramatic and had some interesting sounds going on in it. I had forgotten about 'Roseanna'. Understandable. It was pretty fluffy and forgettable. Sounded very sterile and canned to me. Anyway, WTRF doesn't make me think of either one of those records or any other record for that matter. Also, whoever said there was no synth work on this record is wrong. Look at the liner notes. Probably 2/3 of the songs have some kind of synthesizer listed. Joni was moving in that direction and I don't think Larry Klein or record sales or trends in music or anything but her own curiousity and desire to explore the possibilities of synthesized sounds pushed her or influenced her to go that way. And hasn't Joni always used musicians who were 'in vogue' at the time she made her records? - CSN, James Taylor, the LA Express, Larry Carlton, Wayne Shorter, Jaco Pastorius to name a few. Lyrically WTRF doesn't have that intense, exhaustive introspection that Hejira has but so what? Joni ain't never gonna make another record like Hejira, so get over it o-KAY??! But seriously, there are some great lines on WTRF. Some very clever and witty, some very deep and some straight to the point. I'm going to skip 'Chinese Cafe' 'cause it seems most everybody likes that one: Winter beat the pines about He heard the heater cutting in & out While she dreamed away To me this paints a very clear picture of a woman sleeping peacefully next to someone she feels confident is going to be around for awhile while the man is lying awake, running hot & cold (the heater cutting in & out), feeling very restless and contemplating running as fast & as far as he can from this relationship. You could charm the diamonds off a rattlesnake I guess you learn to refuse What you think you can't handle You're acting like a vandal Wrecking the dream At the first bad scene This theme gets repeated in 'You Dream Flat Tires', somebody who seems to want to destroy a relationship before it even gets started. Love happy cheery stuff, huh? People don't know how to love They taste it and toss it Turn it off and on Like a bathtub faucet Is it possible to learn How to care and yet not care? Since love has two faces Hope and despair And pleasure always turns to fear I find Nice light-hearted, meaningless, love-silly, throw-away pop lyric, ain't it? Ok, Solid Love is a romp. But it's a very clever and fun little romp. Love has always made me feel so uneasy I couldn't relax and just be me More like some strange disease Than this solid love moving on... If your heart is on the floor Cause you've just seen your lover coming thru the door with a new fool Be cool ..... Don't whine Kiss off that flaky valentine You're nobody's fool Perfect lyrics for the title and theme of this song. Witty & biting at the same time. With a jack and a spare You're trying to get to where love is Coming in on a rim and a prayer You're trying to get to where love is Great metaphor and she does a beautiful job of sustaining it throughout the song. I don't like to lie But I sure can be phony when I get scared I stick my nose up in the air Stoney, stoney when I get scared One of her most nakedly honest lyrics. This is as unsparing a bit of self examination as she has ever written, imo. I swear by the streetlight on the corner Shoving back the shadows One shadow cursing Another shadow laughing Underneath the streetlight I don't know where they're coming from I just see them passing Underneath the streetlight I put this song in the same category as 'Chelsea Morning' and 'Night in the City' - sheer exuberance. I think this one has some great poetry in it. Since 'Love' is an adaptation of a Biblical verse, I'm not going to quote from it. Having just heard it a few minutes ago, I still think it is quite lovely. So pull WTRF out and listen to it again and try to forget about Joni as 'a girl with a guitar'. We all know she's more than that and I really can't imagine that Larry Klein had such a profound influence on her that he 'ruined' all of her 80s output. I honestly don't think anybody could sway Joni into putting something on a record that she didn't want on there. He may have wanted to influence her or have more of a role in the making of those albums and what may have caused trouble in their marriage was that she probably wouldn't let him. Anyway that's what I think and that is what I said! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:17:36 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs In a message dated 7/12/01 10:15:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > I had forgotten about 'Roseanna'. > Understandable. It was pretty fluffy and forgettable. Sounded very > sterile and canned to me. I'll bet Roseanna Arquette didn't think so. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:37:15 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs Well, well! Told us, huh? Good job! I especially enjoyed your discussion of certain lyrics. When I think of the lyrics on WTRF, I remember the simple ones: "Nobody's harder on me than me How could they be and nobody's harder on you than you." Gives me a "duh" feeling. And all the "Yes I do -- I love you"s are boring. Joni's been more inventive than that. You're right, though, that there are some gems also and seeing them written out, and separate from the music, makes that clear. It seems like a "happy" cd because the tunes are so bouncy, except for the first and last ones, even when the lyrics express more complicated emotions. To my ears, the sounds on this cd override the words, which isn't usually the case with Joni's music. Debra Shea NPIMH: Solid Love, while I picture four, and now five, of our most distinguished JMDL men wearing slipping shiny halter tops and funny hats while quacking and shaking their tail feathers, and now there are some tomatoes in the picture too. I'm not sayin' where... Mark or Travis wrote: > Lyrically WTRF doesn't have that intense, exhaustive introspection > that Hejira has but so what? Joni ain't never gonna make another > record like Hejira, so get over it o-KAY??! > > But seriously, there are some great lines on WTRF. Some very clever > and witty, some very deep and some straight to the point. > > Winter beat the pines about > He heard the heater cutting in & out > While she dreamed away > ... > People don't know how to love > They taste it and toss it > Turn it off and on > Like a bathtub faucet > ... > Love has always made me feel so uneasy > I couldn't relax and just be me > More like some strange disease > Than this solid love > ..... > Don't whine > Kiss off that flaky valentine > You're nobody's fool > ... > Anyway that's what I think and that is what I said! > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:57:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: joni, 80's, popularity Hi Shane, you wrote: >she was, after all, a proved and larger creative than larry klein as well...and so therefore we must give her responsibility for >the turn on some tracks in the eighties that tried to be too poppish and therefore failed to meet her full capability... we can't >blame him for decisions that she, as SIQUOMB 'president', gave the final o.k.... I think you might have a point about her feeling vulnerable after losing many fans and critics in the late 70s DJRD/Mingus period. What she chose to do in the 80s is just as valid as anything else she has created - it reflects where she was at then to one extent or another. While I am one of those who immediately drove off the freeway to the nearest record store the first time I heard Night Ride Home come on the radio, amazed that she was "back", I do find much value in the 80s works. I think DED is very good and her tightest album of the period, Chalkmark is strange but in a beautiful way (it just may be her DJRD of the 80s) and I think there are some stunning songs on WTRF. But it took other versions and performances of the WTRF songs to make me truly appreciate them. Hearing Marian play Moon at the Window the first time made it all new to me, hearing Paz play Chinese Cafe had the same effect, and after hearing Joni's jazzed up, orchestrated Be Cool last year, I thought it was one of the best songs I'd ever heard. I do like the album much more now than when I first heard it, but still get those feelings it is a little choppy. No, she wasn't drugged out on anything but love and exhilaration when she made it, but consider how many people participated in that album - somewhere around 19 musicians and 12 people besides Klein with "production credits." There is some truth to the old sayings that "too many cooks spoil the broth" and about "too many chiefs and not enough indians." I think many of us ultimately resonate more to 90-100% Joni in an album. We just don't like her voice being muffled or drowned out.much ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #214 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?