From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #213 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, July 12 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 213 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Wild Things, white powder and stuff [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Today's Articles: July 11 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) ["Bill Pearson" ] Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long reply! ["hell" ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs ["Kakki" ] Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs [AzeemAK@aol.com] Foni Mitchell featuring Vikki Clayton [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs ["colin" ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs ["colin" ] Re: Foni Mitchell featuring Vikki Clayton [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] TNT Brian Wilson Tribute [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Joni And The White Lines....... [Whizzboom@aol.com] Re: i'm back [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs ["Mark or Travis" ] The Blue Tapestry Thing...SJC [Whizzboom@aol.com] Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Carole King feature article - SJC [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Carole King feature article - SJC [Bobsart48@aol.com] JONI'S WRITING ["Dave and Beth Fairall" ] Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post ["Kate Bennett] Joni Parody - National Lampoon [Bruyere ] speaking of powder ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #212 [CaT627@cs.com] Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs [dsk ] joni on cobain [Paul Harrill ] Re: joni on cobain [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:27:57 +0100 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: Wild Things, white powder and stuff I'm reading the speculation about WTRF and the presence of Cocaine as the drug of choice at the time of its making. This is probably one of my least listened-to collections of Joni songs. With the notable exception of 'Love' the rest just don't connect at all. Some good things there but I really didn't enjoy the 'band' thing nor the production. Anyway on the cocaine thing I wanted to offer the following. I'm sure I read somewhere that Joni wrote lyrics to some of Hejira's songs while 'investigating' the effects of cocaine. I'm sure too that she related she was appreciative of its qualities in a limited sense but recognised the longer term bankruptcy of prolonged use. Here, while I was writing this I found the reference from Q magazine in the brilliant jmdl joni-article search engine.... But you eventually tried them? Oh yeah, I tried everything. Well, I never tried heroin because I thought, "What's the point? The worst that could happen would be you'd like it. But altered consciousness is completely tempting to a writer. I did some good writing, I think, on cocaine - Song For Sharon (Hejira) - but it kills your heart, takes all your energy, puts it up in your brain and gives you the arrogance that, you know, ruined Jaco Pastorius. (After destitute years of drink and drug problems the former Weather Report and Mitchell band bassist died last September after being beaten up outside a Florida club.) I watched it ruin a lot of people. see also : http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/8805q.cfm bests Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 03:10:38 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: July 11 On July 11 these articles were published: 1994: "Just Me and My Guitar" - Vancouver Sun (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/940711vs.cfm 2000: "Joni" - CBC News (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000711cbc.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 606 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:54:05 +0100 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) > From: MDESTE1@aol.com > My bet is that Toto bought the blow. Which explains everything from the "disjointedness" of the record to the sounds. The first time I heard WTRF Lukathers guitar parts just jumped out at me because his style is so (a) distinctive and (b) limited. I gotta jump in here and say whether you like Luke's playing or not, one thing he is not is limited! As a session player he would not have survived more than a few sessions and as he's played on a good thousand, before and during Toto, well go figure. If you hear that 'distinctive' sound it's because that's what was wanted by producer and artist and that's what was payed for. For me it's albums like that, not really what I want from Joni, that made NRH such a fantastic record and a breath of fresh air. I think I'm one of the few who also hates the VG8 Sarge np: Sandra St.Victor - Dizzy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:23:07 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long reply! Bob wrote: > It started the weekend before last, with my reading a review of Blue posted > in the Articles database here, in which Robert Hilburn of the LA Times wrote > that, in a rare year where albums by Carole King (Tapestry), Janis Joplin > (Pearl) and Carly Simon (debut) had already made their bids for places among > the top 10 albums of the year, Joni added a fourth female entry with Blue. He > makes no further comparisons between Blue and those other albums, in what is > a shortish but highly favorable review. I've snipped a great deal of your post - which I found very interesting, by the way - but I thought I'd add my two cents worth on Carole King, since I've been a fan of hers for much longer than I have Joni (that's not to say MORE of a fan, but I have followed her career/history with some interest). My brother gave me Tapestry when I was about nine years old (when I thought Abba and the Bee Gees just RULED) and he said "You may not like this now, but you'll thank me one day." Boy was he right! Tapestry is one of my favourite albums, and although (IMO) Carole's later works pale in comparison, and more so when you look at Joni's catalogue, it still ranks right up there as one of the greats. But I think in terms of writing "hit songs" Carole had a distinct advantage over Joni - which may or may not have anything to do with Tapestry's success. I don't have enough understanding to make any kind of definitive comment. But my opinion is this: Carole came from a "career" with Atlantic (I think?! - my brain is confused tonight), where she spent her days shut in a sound-booth in the Brill Building, writing hit songs for the latest "flavour of the month". I have a video where she talks about getting to work in the morning, and being told something like "the Drifters need a new hit record - you've got until Friday" and she and Gerry Goffin would tuck themselves away until they had a song, along with several other song-writing teams - she says at times it was almost like a competition to see who could write the best song in the shortest time! Obviously the process of writing the songs for Tapestry (at least the ones she wrote) was different, and far more personal, but I'm sure it gave her an advantage, and may be one reason why so many of those songs were hits - along with some of her later hits like Jazzman, Hard Rock Cafe, etc. As for the recording of Mud Slide Slim and Tapestry, Carole says on the same video that she and James had been good friends for a long time, and that the recording of the two albums felt like one big double album, as they were recorded at the same time - and there was a real "family" feel about the whole time. Many of the musicians (as you said) were being shared, and apparently the studios were very close (geographically). I'll dig out the video and transcribe exactly what she says - it's pretty interesting. You also wrote: > 11. After she and Goffin split up in 1967, she moved to Laurel Canyon with > her 2 daughters, and started a group called The City with her second husband, > Charles Larkey (bass - what's this with second husbands who are bass players ?), There's another similarity with Joni - Carole and Charles still get on fine, and perform together on the video I've got. Obviously singer-songwriters and bass players have very amicable break-ups and can continue working together! Hell __________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:14:23 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post Bob, I remember a conversation I had when I was first thinking about an album of instrumental Mitchell interpretations. I was explaining my plans on the phone to a longtime friend who really knows the territory on recorded music (pre-heavy metal, I should add) and at one point he said something like "You have a very high opinion of JM, don't you? Rank her right up there with Carly Simon..." (CS is a great favorite of his.) Well, it was an effort not to laugh in his telephonic face. Joni Mitchell's originality, musicianship and boldness as a persona in her songwriting are of a completely different and greater order than those qualities in CK or CS. They are first-rate singers and so is Joni--that's the only artistic category where parity exists, IMO. I've said it onlist several times before, but I don't mind once again contending that Joni Mitchell is as great a songwriter as there's been in the English language for the second half of the last century. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:11:12 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Judy Collins (SJC) A friend of mine just called me at work and said that Judy Collins is on the second part of today show and will be singing "Both Sides Now" in the next half hour (for those not on digest). Jimmy, going to get out my portable tv here at work to watch. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:37:37 +0200 From: "John van Tiel" Subject: Bob's Cover Project - The European Connection Anyone in Europe interested in any copies of Bob Muller's Cover Project - or rather, since his new appointment as head of the FBI: Bob's Undercover Project - - please contact me off-list. Available: Volumes 1 thru 19. Costs: cost of blank disk(s) + P&P. For details, see the JMDL site. John van Tiel (the Dutch Uncle) NP: Kelly Joe Phelps - Sky Like A Broken Clock (just out; a fan-tas-tic album!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:25:06 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post First things first, Bob...congrats on becoming a Grandpa! That's gotta be pretty exciting, I suppose you already have the junior clubs bought and on the way! ;~) I don't know specifically any of the answers to your questions about the incestuousness of the King-Mitchell-Taylor-Kortchmar etc. stuff, I just always assumed they always shared a mutual respect for each other's work. I will give a shot at this one: <> Ironically, the album that broke King's "Tapestry" record for consecutive weeks on Billboard's Top 200 was Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" which was WAY different. I would not describe it as a "hook-laden poppy" effort like Tapestry, which of course is also a masterwork in itself. I think for a record to have this kind of massive success, either it gets LOTS of press & hype (Peter Frampton, Ricky Martin) or it has broad appeal to many different people (The Eagles, Garth Brooks). EVERYBODY liked Tapestry; kids, parents, conservatives, radicals, black, white, and all in between. It's the kind of record you would buy as a gift for someone with no reservation. It's the kind of record you'd replace because you wore it out. If I had a dollar for everytime I heard "It's Too Late" the summer it was a hit, I wouldn't have to be in this cubicle right now! ;~) Bob NP: Smashing Pumpkins, "disarm" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:32:47 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post In a message dated 7/11/01 8:20:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dflahm@aol.com writes: > I've said it onlist several times before, but I don't mind once again > contending that Joni Mitchell is as great a songwriter as there's been in > the > English language for the second half of the last century. > > > > I'll contend as well David. On my journey to and from the South last week, I caught in the corner of my eye my husband (who is not a Mitchell fan I'll add) slapping & tapping to the beat of one of the songs on DJRD. Also, while listening very attentively to Otis & Marlena, he lets out a roar of laughter. When I asked him what he was laughing at, he says: "I was just listening to some of her lyrics, this woman is insane!" I think what he really meant to say was this woman is a genius! Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:36:03 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Joni, WTRF, and drugs Hey folks, i enjoyed the talk about WTRF in the last post...........and I agree with the whole "it was all downhill after Mingus theory" but, I would put in attendum, "but it was uphill from Night Ride Home". I think Joni's obvious love for Larry Klein overwhelmed her drive for quality and art, and it blindsighted her songwriting as a result. It just surprises me that an artist of such consistency could be so easily swayed from her convictions. AND........I don't believe Joni was strung out on cocaine during the making of WTRF (contrary to those awful promotional pics taken at the time), I think she was strung out on something more dangerous.....to quote a line of Joni's......"We got high on travel/And we got drunk on alcohol/and on love/the strongest poison and medicine of all...." Clearly Larry was her drug of choice throughout the 80's.........and we've seen some of the bad effects. Joni's commentary on her own cocaine use referred to the 75-76 period of her life...... THE HISSING OF SUMMER LAWNS "some entire albums wouldn't exist without that drug" --she quotes..... and her thanks to "helpful henry, the housewife's delight" in the album credits HEJIRA "This prisoner of the fine white lines of the freeway" -- from "Coyote" "I did some good writing on cocaine, "Song For Sharon", but it kills your heart..." - from the Q, May 1988 issue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:56:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs - --- BachelorNumero2@aol.com wrote: > I agree with the > whole "it was all downhill after Mingus theory" but, > I would put in attendum, > "but it was uphill from Night Ride Home". > > I think Joni's obvious love for Larry Klein > overwhelmed her drive for quality > and art, and it blindsighted her songwriting as a > result. Ummm ... I think you can have this one way, or the other, but not both. NRH & TI both credit Larry as Producer ... just like WTRF, DED & CMIARS. I think it vastly more likely that it was Joni's return to the acoustic guitar that steered her output more in the direction of your own personal tastes than any mordant compulsion of love ... in any case, file both our views in the folder marked "Pure Speculation"! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs I've also gotta chime in on the, shall I say, more "Columbian" aspects of this thread. Try this sometime ... if you have the discs: Put 2 each of Joni's and Stevie Nicks' 80s titles (your choice) in your CD player, and program it up to go through a song or two off each in alternate succession. THEN tell me who it was who was doing all the coke! ;-) I've said this before, but for those who haven't heard it ... there was more than just Bolivian marching powder that was grabbing musician's attentions and interest during the decade in question. In the 80s, digital technology created a whole new breed of synthesizer. Boards like the venerable Yamaha DX7 and the revolutionary Fairlight CMI became the absolute darlings of the entire music industry ... and yes, let's blame ourselves, the listening public. To put this into perspective, and since Joni's a painter, I'll put it this way. Imagine that all your life you've painted with water colors ... it's all you had. Then this miraculous new paint is invented called "oils" ... wouldn't you be blown away? That's the kind of impact the new keyboards had. It wasn't a conspiracy, it was a genuine phenomenon. Now of course, we can all look back with our 20/20 hindsight and pass any manner of value judegements about the phenomenon ... but like I said, at the time, it was genuine. Joni's fascination, I think, was no different than most artists ... I mean, have you listened to some of Neil Young's albums from the period? The only difference I see is that, in our reluctance to think our Joan so "jejune", we reflexively "kick the Klein." And that's a bit unfair. Okay, I'm off the sopabox now! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:17:42 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs Phil, Just want to clarify that I never thought Joni was strung out on coke for WTRF and did not mean to imply that whatsoever in my posts. It's also been my understanding (and is documented) that she stopped using it around the time of Hejira. I don't think Marcel was referring to Joni, either, in his post about the proliferation of coke around musicians in LA back then. Kakki > AND........I don't believe Joni was strung out on >cocaine during the making of WTRF (contrary to those >awful promotional pics taken at the time), I think she >was strung out on something more dangerous.....to >quote a line of Joni's......"We got high on travel/And we >got drunk on alcohol/and on love/the strongest poison >and medicine of all...." Clearly Larry was her drug of >choice throughout the 80's.........and we've seen some of >the bad effects. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:09:04 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > > Q1. Has Tapestry sold more than all of Joni's combined ? I hope not, for my > sanity's sake. > Hope this doesn't send you off the deep end, but I believe Tapestry has outsold Joni's catalog. Joni has certified US sales of around 9 million. International sales probably add about another 3 million to that. And that's being a bit generous. Brenda n.p.- KCRW live ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:24:54 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs Kakki wrote: > It's also been > my understanding (and is documented) that she stopped using it around the > time of Hejira. From WTRF: Couldn't you just love me, like you love cocaine? Seems to imply that she had moved past the white powder at that point. I still think WTRF is an excellent album-I like the electric guitars, I like the absence of cheesy synths, I vastly prefer it to NRH which to me seems kind of tuneless and bland. Hey, it's a lonely club. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:43:26 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs In a message dated 11/07/01 20:56:36 GMT Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Just want to clarify that I never thought Joni was strung out on coke for WTRF and did not mean to imply that whatsoever in my posts. It's also been my understanding (and is documented) that she stopped using it around the time of Hejira. >> This very enjoyable thread has put me in mind of a line (please excuse the pun) from Abel Ferrara's Dangerous Game, a squalid and not-very-good film, although it does contain Madonna's best acting performance. Anyway, Harvey Keitel's character, the indie film director, says to his leading man, James Russo, words to the effect of "I don't care whether you have to take more drugs or less drugs, just give me what I need." That says a lot: snorting coke could help produce a masterpiece (Hejira, Station to Station - or Taxi Driver) or it could produce a monstrosity like Oasis's third album, which I'm convinced only got such reviews because all the hacks who reviewed it had been partaking themselves. Azeem in London Last played: Blur, The Great Escape - I've been listening to some neglected albums, with the intention of getting rid of a few - this one just about survives the cut although it's far too long ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:57:26 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Foni Mitchell featuring Vikki Clayton Hi everyone. Just a reminder about Friday's gig (13th July) with Vikki Clayton on lead vocals. The Robin 2, Mount Pleasant, Bilston (Nr. Wolverhampton), West Midlands. New song in set - The Gallery. Bye for now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:39:41 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs I think creativity comes from within a person whent hey are in touch with themselves and their spirit. I don't think drugs lead to true creativity. This has been my excperience. I used to use drugs on a regular basis. I also used to create. Now I don't use drugs and I create but my creations are much improved. Personally I think a lot of pretentious crap is spoken about drug use. They give nothing that can't be gotten from within a person. Okay so you might see 'some crazy scenes' or have auditroy halucinations or whateevr or even feel overwhelming 'love' ( lust) or just an incredible high form drug use. But it is all false. The best feelings come from within a person prpared to do the work on themselves-i.e embrace honesty and compassion and understning and courage. Then those things we hanker after will be ours. It will give you that feeling of being 'at one' without also destroying your life and brain cells. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:44:10 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: "colin" Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs - ------- I vastly prefer it to NRH which to me seems kind of tuneless and bland. see, there is no accounting for taste...... Hey, it's a lonely club. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:23:05 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foni Mitchell featuring Vikki Clayton << New song in set - The Gallery. >> Break a leg, Clive! The Gallery is the only song on Clouds that has yet to be covered on record...as least as far as I can tell, and that's pretty far! Bob NP: Ani, "Beautiful night" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:53:41 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: TNT Brian Wilson Tribute Does anyone know if this will be aired again? I tried my damnedest to stay awake, but I fell asleep and woke up near the end while they were singing Barbara Ann. Carly looked great! Everyone seemed to be having a spectacular time. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:18:34 EDT From: Whizzboom@aol.com Subject: Joni And The White Lines....... Greetings... It's always been my suspicion that Joni (and the boys) were doing blow during the WTRF period, tour included. I've just always felt that way. In fact, on my WT tour poster, the shot of Joni clearly shows one of her nostrils is larger than the other (same photo was used on the front of the tour book..). When WTRF came out, I was still very young to fully appreciate the artist that IS Joni Mitchell, but I was fully caught up with the older material and waiting for it's release. Though a wee bit 'slick' in terms of production value, I LOVED the disc to pieces, probably in part because as a youngster, I had a lot of trouble with 'the jazz" (which has now become my fave part of the JM catalogue), and so the sound of WT said to me that the messy jazz thing was finally over. I'm not quite sure what caused it, but I always had this sort of upset & fear about my favorite musicians using drugs (probably a reflection of my own fears about MY drug use...). And so, silly observations like the one above about the WTRF poster were my forte as a youngster - I was always looking for clues. I'm not so sure that our Joan was 'done' with the Bolivian marching powder after 'Rolling Thunder,' although she's always quick to remark how ill she was when the tour ended and she drove across country. I think this has something to do with why she was adamant about NOT appearing in 'Renaldo & Clara'. Another silly observation from my adolesence is that at one point during the 'Refuge' Concert video, it almost looks as though Joni walks off to the side of the stage and ingests something...I've really put some time into this little fascination! Joni also looks like shit in the promo video for "Chinese Cafe", very unlike her. She looks pale and a little gaunt, at least for someone who even in the midst of true UNhealth manages to look radiant. Someone lost quite a bit of weight between the filming of S&L and WTRF related stuff. Finally, I left Wally B. laughing himself to tears once on the telephone just before the release of TI. He had received a promo cassette of the final product and did send me one (only maybe 2 weeks before the official release, but it was still quite a thrill to be early!), and having told me the first single was called "How Do You Stop?", I had a dream that the picture sleeve for the single had a photo of Joni holding her head in angst over a large pile of Cocaine. Looking back now, this is undoubtedly related to my own problems with the stuff which, at the time of said dream, has escalated to the 'art' of freebasing. Hope the dream gave some of you a little chuckle. Clean and sober (for the better), Chris NP: "Ladies Man" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:27:11 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: i'm back Welcome back Bill. It's good to have another VG-8 user back. Since you've been gone John Calimee and Marian Russell have purchased their very own and last week I bought a second one used that is in perfect condition. I hope you can make it to Topsfield this year, it would be wonderful to have you there. Nice to have you back where you belong Dolli Hee hee Michael NP-All Is Quiet-Lowen and Navarro on 7/9/01 7:21 PM, Deb Messling at messling@enter.net wrote: > Wow, welcome back, Bill! New listers, you might want to take a look at the > Joni Mitchell lyrics parody page on the jmdl site. Bill wrote some of the > funniest. > > http://www.jmdl.com/parodies/index.cfm > > ----------------------------------- > Deb Messling =^..^= > ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:29:21 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs > I think it vastly more likely that it was Joni's > return to the acoustic guitar that steered her output > more in the direction of your own personal tastes than > any mordant compulsion of love ... in any case, file > both our views in the folder marked "Pure > Speculation"! ;-) > > Don Rowe File my opinion with Larry's, oops! I mean Don's. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:48:06 EDT From: Whizzboom@aol.com Subject: The Blue Tapestry Thing...SJC I've got to echo some of Hell's sentiments here. "Tapestry" is a record for the masses - "Blue" is not. IMHO, "Blue" is a record for people who FEEL on a deeper level than the average, an emotional roller coaster ride that not everyone is going to enjoy listening to. Unfortunately, there are a great many folks out there who only want music to show them 'a good time' - no tax, please. Sure, the writing on "Tapestry" is very, very good, but it's a totally different ballgame than "Blue". The only similarities worth noting are the release dates and the fact that they are both done by female singer/songwriters. Carole's career, up until a few years earlier, had been built on writing catchy pop tunes. Confessional? Sometimes. But when was the last time you felt like you might need to have a drink after listening to Carole King? Joni's writing has always had a degree of honesty to it unrivaled by any other writer in the history of contemporary music (Dylan at times, but without the pretty voice for executing the words, it comes off differently. Maybe his masculinity makes him seem somehow devoid of that 'deep feeling' that I'm referring to...Women have always been better at expressing themselves...Guys, don't throw fruit at me!). Furthermore, as we take this time to celebrate "Tapestry" in our own way, by 'threading' about it, I will vent my frustration about the other really great Carole King discs that always get lost in the Tapestry shuffle. Much as it's one of the best recordings we've got, I simply cannot listen to it anymore. VERY seldom. Over the years, I've come to appreciate it's follow-up, "Music" much more, probably for no other reason than the tunes on it have not suffered form the massive overexposure that Tap's lead cuts have. "Rhymes & Reasons" is also excellent Carole King, nothing mind boggling, but a great pop record nontheless. My favorite, though, is "Fantasy". Much as it's sound is now quite dated, this was probably the most interesting record she made. We get Carole's commentary about the Women's Liberation movement, several different angles on the difficulties of inner-city living, and a bit of political commentary sprinkled in. The music often sounds like the soundtrack from a cheesy crime-drama of the same period ('73 - take your pick), but with all it's flaws, it's not just MORE BLAND LOVE SONGS FROM CAROLE KING, who I admire very much despite her repetitive nature. We have to cut CK some slack about that - she was trained to write that way. And made a good living doing it. - -Chris PS. For those who've never heard them, "Writer" The City's "Now That Everything's Been Said", & "Thoroughbred" are all worthy of your time and with the exception of the City CD, have all sold several million copies to date. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:31:47 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post Brenda wrote: "Hope this doesn't send you off the deep end, but I believe Tapestry has outsold Joni's catalog. Joni has certified US sales of around 9 million. International sales probably add about another 3 million to that. And that's being a bit generous." To paraphrase the late (?), great Charlie Brown : AAARRRGGGHHH !!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:01:46 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC SC Joni Guy replied: "don't know specifically any of the answers to your questions about the incestuousness of the King-Mitchell-Taylor-Kortchmar etc. stuff, I just always assumed they always shared a mutual respect for each other's work." I also noticed that Carole King played piano on the Sweet Baby James album in 1970. So, they had been working together for over a year, at least, it seems. Quite a scene back then, that Laurel Canyon ! Bob M also replied: "I will give a shot at this one: <> I think for a record to have this kind of massive success, either it gets LOTS of press & hype (Peter Frampton, Ricky Martin) or it has broad appeal to many different people (The Eagles, Garth Brooks). EVERYBODY liked Tapestry; kids, parents, conservatives, radicals, black, white, and all in between. It's the kind of record you would buy as a gift for someone with no reservation. It's the kind of record you'd replace because you wore it out." Yes, I agree with your focus there - one does not have to think an album is the greatest to buy it, one must simply think it is worth buying. Clearly, in Tapestry's case, just about everyone thought so. And equally clearly in Blue's case, not everyone did. As I have said before, the average American is a scary thing (not to excuse the average Canadian, Brit, Aussie, etc.) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:16:07 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC David Lahm replied: "I've said it onlist several times before, but I don't mind once again contending that Joni Mitchell is as great a songwriter as there's been in the English language for the second half of the last century." What's this ? He's stealing my lines. OK. I'll compete. If we throw in the singing, arranging, instrument playing. production skills and paintings, I would venture to amend the following: 1. Change "a songwriter" to "an artist" 2. Change "language" to "speaking world" 3. Change "second half" to "third third" (I am an actuary - not some decimal in Ray's Dad's class - and I cannot speak to the pre-1968 period with any conviction on account of my youth - I was only two when the second half ot the 20th century began - in 1951 by the way). Young Grampa Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:44:15 -0500 From: "Dave and Beth Fairall" Subject: JONI'S WRITING David, I've been a "lister" for several years now, more of a lurker since the birth of my son due to time constraints, general fatigue etc...but I really admire your Joni record, and comments about her influence and preeminent status as a composer. I am also a musician, {saxophone}, and was initially drawn to Joni in college, as Court and Spark, and to a lesser extent Blue, were mandatory soundtracks in the dorm, over 20 years ago. At the time I was immersed in jazz studies, and it wasn't until I heard Don Juan and Mingus that I realized her depth, and that she had / has, no peers. I was, and still am, a huge Weather Report fan, and am of the opinion that they were one of the most important bands to emerge in my generation. There are few artists who have re-invented themselves as Joni has, and whose musical maturation has occurred on such a public stage, recognized by those who are intuitive enough to appreciate and marvel at her genius. Her body of work is impressive on so many levels. Thanks for your consistently insightful remarks, and for articulating your admiration of Joni so graciously!! Dave F. [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:22:40 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post twas written that >>>Joni Mitchell's originality, musicianship and boldness as a persona in her songwriting are of a completely different and greater order than those qualities in CK or CS. They are first-rate singers and so is Joni--that's the only artistic category where parity exists, IMO. <<< i agree that joni stands alone however early carole king is waaay up there in my opinion...but then i am more of a pop/r&b/hooky kind of music lover than a jazz freak...as far as their voices go (ck & cs)...imho i don't think they are so great...but carole makes up for it with her great songs....however i like carly's harmonies a lot...(colin don't be mad at me...) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:50:45 -0400 From: Bruyere Subject: Joni Parody - National Lampoon hi all - i was poking around on the internet today and found that national lampoon did a ' joni mitchell' parody called ' you put me through hell' . has anyone heard of this? years ago a local college station (suny binghamton) used to play the national lampoon radio hour but i missed this one. here's the site: http://www2.bitstream.net/~marksim/natlamp/nlrh/nlrhshows.html scroll down and you'll find the listing. if i am the only jmdler who has not heard of this .... then please for give me. heather ps - does anyone know of any cd pressings of national lampoon stuff? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:41:16 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: speaking of powder since we are on that subject & also toto...i was in a session where jeff p was the drummer (may he rest in peace).. it was the 80's & boy was he doin a lot of that stuff... however much he did he never missed a beat- literally...everyone was impressed (& we were sober)... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:08:36 EDT From: CaT627@cs.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #212 Les, Please, oh please give me all joni and no digest. I would do it myself but I don't know how. thanks so much! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:48:40 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni, WTRF, and drugs Randy Remote wrote: > I still think WTRF is an excellent album-I like the electric > guitars, I like the absence of cheesy synths, I vastly prefer it > to NRH which to me seems kind of tuneless and bland. > Hey, it's a lonely club. Yeah, it must be. NRH was like a breath of fresh air after Joni's "lost in the sounds" 80s albums so I can't join in your little club. Listening to NRH for the first time was an "ahhhh, I can HEAR her again!!" Joni was still speaking plainly about loving her man, but she'd returned to being grounded in what she sees instead of being overwhelmed with feelings as she was in WTRF. Plus there were definite melodies and plenty of story songs again... so "normal" Joni was back. Made me happy and enthusiastic about her work again. (Chinese Cafe is more subdued and complex than any of the other songs but does end with the "I need your love, Godspeed your love to me" lines, so in that way it does lead (barely) into the rest of the cd. It seems like the precursor to Come in from the Cold. And "Love" seems to be more like the songs on TTT with its meandering melody and lyrics.) I can't join the WTRF-bashing club either, however, since I like the energy of that cd. It's not a favorite or one of her best but I think it's great that Joni was so wildly in love that she was crazed (or maybe it was drugs... I don't know... I much prefer the love idea... drugs don't always produce euphoric feelings the way early love can). I think Joni somewhere said it's much more difficult to write happy songs and WTRF shows that to be the case. Why ponder relationships enough to write complex lyrics when life is so completely enjoyable? Who wants to (or can) dissect that? So, stuck in the middle of her collection of cds about romantic angst and melancholy and being hypercritical is this aberration with lyrics so lightweight they're downright silly sometimes. It does have some snappy tunes, though, and I can enjoy it for that. Solid Love is one of my favorites because of the sheer joy of it and the way the lyrics twist within the music, which is typical Joni. I wonder what we'd all think of this album if it had been done by anyone other than Joni. My guess is it would be more highly regarded, or at least appreciated as a decent pop album. Debra Shea NP: the David Letterman Show... he may be very weird but I like him a lot. His attitude-based humor makes me laugh much more than the one-liners of supposedly good guy Jay Leno ever do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:49:01 -0400 From: Paul Harrill Subject: joni on cobain Hi all, I'm new to the list and I joined so that I could ask you all this (admittedly weird) question: Years ago (94, to be precise) I remember reading a quotation by JM regarding Kurt Cobain and his suicide. Does anyone remember reading this? If so, what did she say? Thanks, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:07:51 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni on cobain In a message dated 7/12/01 12:43:07 AM, pharrill@utk.edu writes: << Years ago (94, to be precise) I remember reading a quotation by JM regarding Kurt Cobain and his suicide. Does anyone remember reading this? >> Hi, Paul: Welcome to the list, even if it is just for this one question. I think this may be the quotation you're looking for, although it is dated January, 1998. It's from an article at the incredible jmdl.com: "Everybody says Kurt Cobain was a great writer. I don't see it," Mitchell says. "Why is he a hero? Whining and killing yourself - I fail to see the heroism in that." You can read the entire article at <> Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #213 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?