From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #212 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, July 11 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 212 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: July 10 [les@jmdl.com] Painting with words or music.... but not both [Gordon Mackie ] Wild Things Run Fast [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Piano keys skirt ["Craig" ] Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) ["Kakki" ] jonatha ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Joni On The Radio... [Whizzboom@aol.com] Re: Joni On The Radio... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni On The Radio... [Whizzboom@aol.com] Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post [Bobsart48@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:11:54 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: July 10 On July 10 in Joni Mitchell History: 1983: Joni performs at the Stanley Theater in Pittsburgh - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:05:50 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Painting with words or music.... but not both Stephanie wrote And finally, Has Joni ever recorded songs that she has not written either words or lyrics to (covers) I suppose you only wanted to know about covers of stuff she neither wrote the words or lyrics to but since everyone else has jumped on the 'either' bandwagon I feel its ony fair that I do likewise..lol. Joni din't write the music to 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns..John Guerin did...er....that's it. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:29:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: i'm back Bill Dollinger wrote: > hey there jmdlers - > > what's up - im back after a long > absence. i am sure there are many new > faces here, and wondering which of > the oldtimers are still around. Hey Bill, this old-timer is still here, I'm looking at the poster you gave me right now, It is on my door at work. I saw Trudy last night. Will tell her hello for you. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:13:17 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Wild Things Run Fast Well, having decided to give WTRF another listen, as I could only think of one song on it I liked, I have found one other song, Love. I'm not sure how much of it is actually from Corinthians, as my copy of the Bible is buried at the bottom of a cupboard, but I was struck by how I'd overlooked it, as it's truly lovely. As for Chinese Cafe, it seems to me to belong to a different album; it has a depth and insight that to these ears is lacking elsewhere on the album. It's right up there in the top division of Joni songs. As for the rest, I was underwhelmed, to put it mildly. What I found most displeasing was the production, which is very "Toto-ish". I don't like Larry's bass playing (too showy and far too much echo on a few songs), or the horrible lead guitar squalls, or even Vinnie Colaiuta'a drumming, which is odd, as I think he's a brilliant drummer - I'm listening to his superb work on Jennifer Warnes's fabulous Famous Blue Raincoat as I type this. And the songs just seem throwaway to me, by her standards; and I don't mean that as part of my "it was all downhill after Mingus" theory. I actually think WTRF is one of her weakest albums, certainly not as interesting to me as Dog Eat Dog, even though I'm not a big fan of the latter. Oh well, never mind, I doubt Joni will think much of my 11th studio album either... Azeem in London NP: Jennifer Warnes - Joan of Arc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:04:06 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) The reason the album sounds "Toto-ish" is because Toto players played on it. When the album came out that band was at their peak and the players particularly Steve Lukather (guitar gun) was being used on everyones albums all over the place and everyone was trying to reproduce the sound of that band and David Fosters production. Klein was up to his ears in the LA Music Mafia. Marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:28:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) <> As much as I hate to say it, Marcel is right! :~D WTRF came out at the same time frame as Toto IV, the huge one with "Africa", "Rosanna", etc. on it. Bob NP: Saffire, "The Clock" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:45:45 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) Marcel wrote <> And Bob added << As much as I hate to say it, Marcel is right! :~D WTRF came out at the same time frame as Toto IV, the huge one with "Africa", "Rosanna", etc. on it. >> Well, that may be so (I suspected there may have been a Toto connection, as they were pretty much ubiquitous at the time, although the names that would have rung more definite bells were Porcaro and Paich). Anyway, I never liked Toto, and I still think that WTRF sounds sterile and unpleasant! Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:27:10 -0700 From: "Craig" Subject: Piano keys skirt Last month someone mentioned Joni's Wild Things tour in 1983, and it brought up a memory I had forgotten. I saw her at the Concord, Ca. show and she came onstage in a white blouse and a black and white skirt. Around the bottom of the skirt was a row a large black and white paino keys. She looked great. Anyone have a picture or link they can point me to? This was also the show where I heard the new lines in For Free, which she later performed for posterity on the Refuge of the Roads video. Craig ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:16:09 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md) Steve Lukather was the only Toto member who played on WTRF (although he was closely tied professionally and personally to Landau and Colaiuta). Toto was so overhyped as a band back then but its original members were top-flight musicians individually. The Toto music, however, was sometimes over-bit slick, sterile and "packaged." I was disappointed with WTRF when it first came out. It seemed uneven and disjointed to me. I suspect (and this is my own subjective opinion) that it would have been so much better with just Joni, her guitar and piano, because most of the songs standing alone become much more outstanding in a simpler presentation. I feel the same way about the Hissing Demos and a few of the "alternate," acoustic DED songs that we have heard. On the other hand, her experiences working with various bands was probably very enriching and downright fun for her. Kakki > Marcel wrote <> > > And Bob added << As much as I hate to say it, Marcel is right! :~D > > WTRF came out at the same time frame as Toto IV, the huge one with "Africa", > "Rosanna", etc. on it. >> > > > Well, that may be so (I suspected there may have been a Toto connection, as > they were pretty much ubiquitous at the time, although the names that would > have rung more definite bells were Porcaro and Paich). Anyway, I never liked > Toto, and I still think that WTRF sounds sterile and unpleasant! > > Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:01:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: jonatha Paz, I agree, you found her first! Letterman invited her to sit on the chair after her performance. I have heard that is a BIG plus...that not everyone gets invited over after performing so if you do...well I don't know what it means...I guess that he likes you? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:36:10 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) My bet is that Toto bought the blow. Which explains everything from the "disjointedness" of the record to the sounds. The first time I heard WTRF Lukathers guitar parts just jumped out at me because his style is so (a) distinctive and (b) limited. But also how unrelated in style his tracks sound vis a vis the songs. That was my initial impression. I chalked this album and its sound to people whose minds were numbed from worshiping at the Incan altar of Joy. When I was producing records I would meet other producers and players who were totally fried freaks and they would play me their songs recently produced and I had a standard line "Hey sounds great, I guess you guys liked the tunes so much you started celebrating just before you started recording the basic tracks". What was really funny was very often they would agree with me. marcel. desperately trying to not insult any Incas. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:09:44 EDT From: Whizzboom@aol.com Subject: Joni On The Radio... Has anyone mentioned that awful song I TRIED to start a thread about months back, "Joni Mitchell On The Radio" by Espen Lind? It's truly awful, but touches on both topics. - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:23:17 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni On The Radio... << Has anyone mentioned that awful song I TRIED to start a thread about months back, "Joni Mitchell On The Radio" by Espen Lind? It's truly awful, but touches on both topics. >> Nobody has, Chris, but probably because nobody else has heard it...at least I know that I've never heard of it except for your mention. Did it get airplay? Bob NP: Ani, "garden of simple" (with the great line..."the best minds of my generation can't make bail"...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:12:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Wild Things Run Fast (md-2) Marcel wrote: > My bet is that Toto bought the blow. Which explains everything from the "disjointedness" of the record to the sounds. Well, I wasn't going to say it - but now that you've brought it up - the first thing I thought on pondering the earlier posts was that perhaps it was WTRF that she was referring to in her drugs quote in LA Weekly this week ;-D I made it through the past several decades without personally partaking of any substance but vividly remember the enormous and excessive amounts (literally a sackful at one) of the stuff at parties and even in clubs in the mid '70s to early '80s. I remember reading an article once where some people were reflecting that the reason some of the '70s movies, TV and fashions were so bad/hideous/mediocre was because everyone was so strung out there for awhile and thought everything they created was just wonderful. Not trying to debate drugs, etc., but I thought the article was somewhat correct! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:38:53 EDT From: Whizzboom@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni On The Radio... No, Bob, I don't believe it got any airplay. The only way I found out about it was by fumbling around on napster a while back - I was doing a search for something JM related, and this popped up, so I downloaded it and BOY it sux! I haven't heard anything that's offended my sensibilities quite like that in a while. I saved it, of course. Cheers. - -Chris NP: Nelly Furtado, a loaner to burn from my neighbor. NOT particularly compelling, but fun nonetheless. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:01:35 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Carole King feature article - SJC - long post A chain of petty coincidences over the past week or so has gotten me to thinking again about the "ego" side of the Joni-as-an-artist (and me-as-a-fan) conflict vis a vis her underappreciation by the general public (and how that appears to be inevitable given the high level of her artistry). It started the weekend before last, with my reading a review of Blue posted in the Articles database here, in which Robert Hilburn of the LA Times wrote that, in a rare year where albums by Carole King (Tapestry), Janis Joplin (Pearl) and Carly Simon (debut) had already made their bids for places among the top 10 albums of the year, Joni added a fourth female entry with Blue. He makes no further comparisons between Blue and those other albums, in what is a shortish but highly favorable review. Anyway, a couple of nights later I, for the first time in a long time, was rummaging through my old vinyl collection, when I came across Tapestry. I listened to it for the first time in many years (even followed the lyrics), and found myself truly enjoying its catchy melodies, simple arrangements and the earnest but seemingly honest romanticism of her vocals. But when it was over, I caught myself reflexively chuckling at the comparison between Tapestry and Blue. I mean, Blue's lyrics, melodies, vocals, musicianship and (IMO) production were all clearly superior on an artistic level to Tapestry's. And, I found some confirmation of my chuckle in the VH1 lists (I know these do not mean much, if anything, but...), where Joni placed 5th versus Carole's 10th in 'Top 100 Women in R n R', Blue place 14th versus Tapestry's 39th in 'Top 100 Albums in R n R" and Joni placed 32nd or so versus Carole's 85th or so in 'Top 100 Artists in R n R' (which was one spot ahead of Madonna and 2 ahead of Santana - the group). What does this mean ? Not much, I am sure (for example, Bonnie Raitt placed 4th on the Women's list but did not make the top 100 in the unisex list - go figure - while Hejira did not make the top 100 albums). But I digress. On Saturday, I noticed a 'coming Sunday' tickler in the Newark Star Ledger (my wife subscribes for the local news, she says) about an article that would appear the next day celebrating the 30th anniversary of Tapestry, a 'landmark album that changed the music business forever, and paved the way for generations of singer-songwriters to come'. So, I figured I'd read it on Sunday. Only I took my brother golfing on Sunday for his birthday, and we played 36, so fast forward to Monday when I finally read the Tapestry article on the bus leg of my commute into NYC. It was written by one Lisa Rose, a staff writer with whose work I am not familiar. Anyway, there were three related articles covering the better part of 3 full pages of the Spotlight section of the Ledger. The articles comprise a tribute to the album and to King as well, and form a really informative collage, IMO. Among the interesting tidbits reported were the following: 1. Lou Adler, who produced and engineered the record, was quoted as saying that even before the record was released (in February of 1971), the people at A&M's headquarters were all playing the record in their offices, and saying things like "she captured my feelings". There was no doubt there it was going to be a hit. 2. There was this description of the album, that could have applied to Blue. "Released ....midway between Woodstock and Watergate, Tapestry was the fabric of change. The album was an acoustic colledciton of palintive melodies and soul-on-sleeve poetry, candidly touching on such universal themes as love, lonliness and self-esteem. The pror-confessional album, it boasted such classic songs as It's Too Late, I Feel the Earth Move, So Far Away, Will You Love Me Tomorrow, (You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman, and You've Got A Freind. 3. It's Too Late was the top single in the country this week, 30 years ago. 4. Tapestry spent 15 weeks at No. 1 and stayed on the LP charts for nearly 6 years, with sales totaling 15 million copies worldwide to date. 5. There were no press junkets, world tours, music videos etc to hype the album - it just sold itself. 6. It was only her second solo album. 7. She wrote the lyrics to 7 of the 12 cuts (with Toni Stern and her former husband Gerry Goffin writing most of the rest). 8. Carole, now age 59, is presently working on her 18th studio album (none of the others were nearly as successful commercially as Tapestry, of course). 9. She keeps her life private, and turned down an interview request for the story, even though it was clearly to be favorable. 10. The list of those citing her as an influence includes Alanis Morrisette, Diane Warren, Deline Dion, Trisha Yearwood,, Slash and Semisonic. Those cited as covering her songs include Courtney Love, Kylie Minogue and Mary Blige. Not very impressive as a list, IMHO. I bet if one goes to her web-site (I assume she has one) one will find much better lists. 11. After she and Goffin split up in 1967, she moved to Laurel Canyon with her 2 daughters, and started a group called The City with her second husband, Charles Larkey (bass - what's this with second husbands who are bass players ?), Danny (Kootch) Kortchmar (guitar) and Russ Kunkel (drums). They cut one album. She did all the writing and arranging, according to Kootch, and mostly used the others for support and confidence. He also said that Carole is a complete musician who reads and writes music - apropos of and in contrast to a recent thread here vis a vis Joni. She "was the bandleader, and more or less taught everyone ow to play", he said. 12. Tapestry took 4 weeks to record. (James Taylor and Joni were cited as having contributed background vocals - on the album they are referred to - and pictured on the inside of the cover - as the Mitchell/Taylor Boy and Girl Choir, backing up Will You Love Me Tomorrow). When it was done, Adler told Kootch he thought it was the "Love Story" of recordings. He was right, it seems. Anyway, here are some of my musings in question form: Q1. Has Tapestry sold more than all of Joni's combined ? I hope not, for my sanity's sake. Q2. James played acoustic guitar on 5 of the cuts on Tapestry. Carole played piano on 7 of JT's songs on Mud Slide Slim (which featured you've Got a Friend), also released in 1971, and which was also recorded during January and February of that year. Joni did background vocals for 3 of JT's songs from that album. JT and Carole both used Kunkel and Kootch for their albums. JT really played acoustic on 3 of the songs from Blue of course (not the barely audible kind of backup heard on Tapestry), and Kunkel played drums on 3 cuts. Pretty incestuous, it seems to me. And, James and Joni played boyfriend/girlfriend later that year during the England concert (BBC), if I recall correctly. Does anyone know exactly what was going on during the first part of 1971 versus the second part ? Were JT and Carole always just 'Friends" ? 'When, exactly did James and Joni become an item and for how long (I know it was done by See You Sometime in 1972)? Q3. Did Tapestry and its success contribute to Joni's seclusion in working on Blue ? Was there an element of competition there, of having been beaten temporarily at her own game (LOTC preceded Tapestry, after all, so it is not clear to me which confessional album spawned which). Q4. Has Joni ever been asked about her reaction to the relative sales success of Blue versus Tapestry ? Q5. Do an album's songs really have to have such hooks that they can be liked on the first listen in order to sell (I did not feel that way about Sgt Pepper or even Revolver when they first came out, but of course I was only a teen and an extremely unsophisticated listener at those times) ? Anyway, I just had to vent. PS - One of the three pieces was a local color story about a song King penned for the Monkeys called Pleasant Valley Sunday, which was written by Goffin/King and named for Pleasant Valley Way, a street in the West Orange NJ neighborhood where they resided for a brief time in the mid-1960's. The catch line was "Another Pleasant Valley Sunday, Here in status symbol land". Well, I officially lived on PVW for two months. My wife lived there for 10 years, and when we got married we had to sell two houses and buy a third to accomodate our newly merged family. We sold mine first, so we moved into her house for two months until we sold it and bought the new one. It is not an idyllic street at all - really sort of a major through street zoned for commerce as well as residences. Barbara's house was about a medium length par 4 away from a pretty famous comedy club called Rascals on the same street. PPS - Barbara bought the PVW house because she taught in a different school district, but her son could walk to and from school without crossing any streets. Well, today (oops, it is very late, so I guess I mean Yesterday), her son Michael and his wife Jessica made us first time grandparents with a baby boy, so we are thrilled (and perhaps a little bit sobered at the same time) to be Grandma Barbara and Grandpa Bob. The good news is that now we have to go to Florida more often in the winter to visit (and play golf). ;-) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #212 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?