From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #190 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, June 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 190 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: June 20 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers [SCJoniGuy@aol.] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling ["Michael Paz" ] Don Juan - what would you cut? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Don Juan's edit log [colin ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? ["blonde in the bleachers" ] RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? [colin ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [colin ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) ["Michael Paz"] RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [colin ] I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [colin ] Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) [Catherine McK] RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? [Catherine McKay ] RE: Don Juan - what would you cut? ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Swedish [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? [Randy Remote ] Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? ["Kakki" ] Re: jonatha [Michael Paz ] Re: Midwest "FEST" report [Michael Paz ] Don Juan's edit log [TanyerSCO@aol.com] Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) [Michael Paz <] Tenth World [TanyerSCO@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 03:09:21 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: June 20 On June 20 this article about Joni was published: 1998: "Back to the Garden" - Addicted To Noise website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980620atn.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database has 603 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles Contributions always welcome! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:12:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers <> I agree with you on Tenth World, as a stand-alone track it doesn't bring much to the table for me either. But in the context of THE WORK, DJRD as a project, it's probably necessary... Jericho is another interesting animal altogether. Of course it first appeared on MOA, and she continued to play it live (along with For Love or Money for that matter which she played on her '76 tour). I guess she just felt that unlike Love/Money, it just belonged on a record as a studio work. Maybe she liked what her "new" band could bring to it. Funny that she didn't tweak the lyric at all. She also intended to play it on her S&L tour, I think...it shows up on the tour-opening show at OK City, but doesn't get done much if at all after that. So anyway Bob, are you saying that it should not have been released in studio form at all? Would it have fit better on Hejira? (I think maybe it fits better there). Or maybe you're thinking something else. In any regard, interesting discussion! Bob NP: Bonnie Raitt, "You Got To Be Ready For Love" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:39:29 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes we were on the stage left side of the stage (by Art Neville) and we danced like fools. I still I have a momento from the evening which is a sign for her dressing room that has her name written in glitter. The script almost looks like her actual signiture. How cool was that? It was really cool. Paz - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Bennett To: Cc: Jmpaz@Bellsouth. Net Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling > Paz King of the Gumbo Crabs wrote, "Later on in the evening after her too > short of a > set, we danced to the music of the Neville Brothers and made fun of ..." > > When you said WE danced...di you mean you & joni danced...together? if so... > HOW COOL IS THAT?!!!!! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:10:15 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Don Juan's edit log My plans to edit Don Juan to a single album: Overture/Cotton Avenue Talk To Me Jericho Paprika Plains (with just a few slight edits, knocking off like 2 minutes) Otis and Marlena (reduce to a 2 minute instrumental that would flow right into--) The Tenth World (edited down to 3 minutes) Dreamland (edit a minute off of this) Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (edit 2 minutes off of this) The Silky Veils of Ardor *notice I am leaving off "Off Back Nightstreet"............I still feel that not only does it not sound like a "Joni" song, But I find it lyrically poor..........It sounds like it would fit a hell of a lot better on "Wild Things Run Fast" <------- Ok,. I'm running now.......... PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:13:35 -0400 From: "Sally Pont" Subject: Fw: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers - ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Pont To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers > Interesting that you would put Jericho on Hejira. It would certainly be a > contrast to Blue Motel Room in which love has clearly failed, though in > "cool" way, not in a tragic way, what with a final peace treaty being drawn > up in a "neutral cafe." Somehow, though, the tone of Jericho--so direct, so > hopeful-- doesn't jive with the complexities and ambivalences of Hejira. I > am at a loss to place Jericho, though. It has the "I-You" address of songs > from Blue, but it lacks the achiness. To me, it sounds like it's part of the > Court and Spark family: Joni is wise enough at that point to know that, at > best, she has to "try" to keep herself open up to the man she is in love > with, but she still believes that love is ALL. On Hejira, and Hissing, and > Don Juan she seems hell-bent on finding things to value over love. I think > it's too bad Jericho didn't come soon enough to be on Court and Spark. > So, anyway, Jericho is tough. Beautiful, but tough. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: Confessions, Arrogance, Humility, Scales and Feathers > > > > < on the album, except perhaps by way of contrast to Silky Veils, and I am > totally underwhelmed by Tenth World>> > > > > I agree with you on Tenth World, as a stand-alone track it doesn't bring > much to the table for me either. But in the context of THE WORK, DJRD as a > project, it's probably necessary... > > > > Jericho is another interesting animal altogether. Of course it first > appeared on MOA, and she continued to play it live (along with For Love or > Money for that matter which she played on her '76 tour). I guess she just > felt that unlike Love/Money, it just belonged on a record as a studio work. > Maybe she liked what her "new" band could bring to it. Funny that she didn't > tweak the lyric at all. > > > > She also intended to play it on her S&L tour, I think...it shows up on the > tour-opening show at OK City, but doesn't get done much if at all after > that. > > > > So anyway Bob, are you saying that it should not have been released in > studio form at all? Would it have fit better on Hejira? (I think maybe it > fits better there). Or maybe you're thinking something else. > > > > In any regard, interesting discussion! > > > > Bob > > > > NP: Bonnie Raitt, "You Got To Be Ready For Love" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:20:26 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni-fests Jimmy wrote: >I've attended a big Joni-fest at Ashara's, a smaller one at the Paz-fest, a >small gathering in LA with only 7 people from the list, and just a >get-togther with only two JMDLer's last year here in Ft. Myers. It really >doesn't matter the number of people. Wherever two or three are gathered in her name... :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.scdh.org "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:43:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Don Juan - what would you cut? i think I'd cut Jericho and Off Night Backstreet. To me they don't belong on this album. I know I heard Joni sing Jericho at a concert, but don't remember which. Not too many choices - I've only seen her twice; once at Massey Hall (Toronto) between Blue and FTR (whenever that was); again on the WTRF tour (Toronto again), so it must have been WTRF. I knew I had heard it before and was wondering when she would put it on an album, but I didn't have DJRD or MOA at the time, so I didn't realize it was on not one, but two. It was only recently I realized I had in fact heard it before because my sister had MOA so I had heard it at her place. I like the song, but somehow, to me, it doesn't fit on DJRD. Off Night Backstreet just doesn't do much for me. I don't care for it as a song and somehow, again, it just doesn't fit. I do like the 10th world - I agree it can be a bit on the long side, but that kind of music kind of has to be. It's trancy kind of music, dancin' fool music without the goofy lyrics. I agree with whoever said it makes a good segue between Otis and Marlene and Dreamland. With Otis and Marlene, you start out in a pretty banal situation - a couple of tourists in Florida, but you're already in the tropics; with 10th world, you're not just in the tropics, you are IN THE TROPICS. It's like Voodoo dancing or something, very dreamlike and trancy - lots of chanting and repetition and those jungle drums. Then you're into Dreamland which takes you back out of the jungle, slowly out of the dream. Like Joni, you're not really ready to get out altogether, but you've got to wake up to reality - winter, the ice and cold and the 6-foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn and so on. I don't think you should mess with that; otherwise, you're likely to go into shock. ;) Sometimes I'm tempted to skip over the 10th world because it's so long, but necessarily so. If you just heard "Baila mi rumba" (sp?) a couple of times, it wouldn't work - it needs to be chanted like that. I get drawn into it, waiting for a certain drum pattern. I suppose you could cut some of Paprika Plains, but I hear this one as a symphony, and you can't cut one of the movements without sacrificing something. "Talk to me" is so exuberant - she just sounds so excited and happy. Just like a yacky chick. What can I say about "Cotton Avenue"? I wish it were longer! And "The silky veils of ardour" - beautiful. DJRD really is one of my favourites. It may be flawed, in some people's view, but I love Joni's singing voice on this one. It's girlish, yet mature; sexy, jubilant, lots of range vocally and emotionally. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:58:20 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Don Juan's edit log I'd cut DJRD down to: Talk to Me Tenth World(ext remix) Dreamland (ext remix) bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:17:52 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? "I can't seem to make it with you socially" is probably one of my favorite lines on FTR. It is honest and heartbreaking, and describes to a tee why plenty of relationships don't work. >From: Relayer211@aol.com >Reply-To: Relayer211@aol.com >To: Joni@smoe.org >Subject: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? >Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:44:21 EDT > > According to the author of a book about Dylan the line "I can't seem to >make it with you socially" ruins the otherwise fine song,"Lesson in >survival".Does anyone agree? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:25:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Don Juan's edit log About the only thing I'd consider doing is dropping 10th World & substituting the "Hissing Demos" version of Dreamland (which is still my favorite version of that number EVER). So it'd run something like this: 1. Overture/Cotton Avenue 2. Talk to Me 3:40 3. Jericho 3:25 4. Paprika Plains 16:19 5. Otis and Marlena 4:05 6. Dreamland ("Hissing Demos" version substituted) 7. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 6:40 8. Off Night Backstreet 3:22 9. Silky Veils of Ardor 4:02 Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:00:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes...we danced like fools" LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:11:29 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Swedish Here ya go - I think I get the gist of it.... *When Joni Mitchell drinks too much "Tequila Anaconda" she likes to talk about "Bergmans Nordic Blues", if you were to believe the song "Talk to me" from 1977, and I like the fact that it was the currently, with restored reputation but yet a B-film producer, Roger Corman, who brought in a number of Bergman movies to the States during the 60?s and the 70?s. Why not also mention Wes Craven, who?s terribly unpleasant "Last House on the Left", wasn?t anything else but a new recording of Jungfrukallan (The Virgin?s spring), which ironically enough was totally prohibited in Sweden.* - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.scdh.org "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:19:44 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) << Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes...we danced like fools" and Kate wrote: LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... >> That's where Joni came up with the lyrics : "Kiss my ass!" I said and I threw my drink..........from "Lead Balloon" :~) ......just kidding Mikey, it's probably more like .....honey you turn me on, I'm a radio you butch boy! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:26:35 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? Catherine McKay wrote: > i think I'd cut Jericho and Off Night Backstreet. To > me they don't belong on this album. I know I heard > Joni sing Jericho at a concert, the first I heard it was on MOA. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:28:45 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? blonde in the bleachers wrote: > "I can't seem to make it with you socially" is probably one of my > favorite lines on FTR. It is honest and heartbreaking, and describes to > a tee why plenty of relationships don't work. > okay, what does that line mean? I haven't a clue. Are we talking different social classes here? Different entertainment tastes? Can't stand the partner's friends? bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:42:55 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? It would seem that his friends don't like her "Maybe its paranoia,maybe its sensitivity, your friends protect you, scrutinize me, I get so damn timid, not at all the spirit that's inside of me, oh baby I can't seem to make it with you socially" >From: colin >To: blonde in the bleachers >CC: Relayer211@aol.com, Joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? >Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:28:45 +0100 > > > >blonde in the bleachers wrote: > > > "I can't seem to make it with you socially" is probably one of my > > favorite lines on FTR. It is honest and heartbreaking, and describes to > > a tee why plenty of relationships don't work. > > > >okay, what does that line mean? I haven't a clue. Are we talking different >social classes here? Different entertainment tastes? Can't stand the >partner's friends? >bw >colin > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:48:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? <> I think she's just talking about her social life with him and HIS friends...to put it in context: "Your friends protect you Scrutinize me I get so damn timid Not at all the spirit That's inside of me Oh baby I can't seem to make it With you socially " Whatever makes their relationship work between the two of them doesn't translate when they are in public (or removed from the world in which they feel comfortable). That's my take on it anyway; I know from my own experience that I've dated women that didn't necessarily "fit" into the other spheres of my life at the time...obviously no one's fault, just the way things are sometime on the "social" level. Whether it's a class difference, age, a socioeconomic one, racial, or whatever. Bob NP: Eddie Reader, "Scarecrow" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:39:48 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) or perhaps it was this timeless jmdl favorite...its pretty transparent actually... No, you couldn't call Mickey a babe in the woods... ...Anytime I want I can make you my dancin'-- My dancin' clown!" You're my dancin' clown Dancin' dancin' My dancin' clown Dancin' You're my dancin' clown Dancin' dancin' dancin' My dancin' clown... ...Cherchez la femme Whenever love comes around Someone's a dancin' clown Cherchez la femme Whenever hearts start to pound Someone's a dancin' clown << Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But yes...we danced like fools" and Kate wrote: LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... >> and Jimmy addedd: That's where Joni came up with the lyrics : "Kiss my ass!" I said and I threw my drink..........from "Lead Balloon" :~) ......just kidding Mikey, it's probably more like .....honey you turn me on, I'm a radio you butch boy! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:12:46 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: the pissing on summer lawns SJC "See the blue pools in the squinting sun, see them pissing on summer lawns" "In France they piss on Main Street, Amour Mama, not cheap display!" Sorry for the blasphemy folks but i just couldn't help it, (guess it's been a long day already)...db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mags Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 4:29 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: the pissing on summer lawns SJC Forgive me for sounding crass however there is no other way to say this... "To be pissed" is a common term in Canuckian for being drunk . Tell me what you think...could Joni have been pissed "ON" tequila before she pissed "A" Tequila Anaconda the full length of the parking lot? Mags the Canuckian, not trying to be a smart @ss.... this topic was brought up in a conversation after work with Brei. ;-)) np: Yola by Eleanor McEvoy is so very good. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:26:53 -0700 From: "Ian Scott" Subject: Re: the pissing on summer lawns SJC Donna, The second one (In France) is brilliant. It's not only funny, but also conveys a lot of meaning. lol :)))) Ian Donna wrote: - --- >"See the blue pools in the squinting sun, see them pissing on summer lawns" > >"In France they piss on Main Street, Amour Mama, not cheap display!" > >Sorry for the blasphemy folks but i just couldn't help it, (guess it's been >a long day already)...db ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:15:26 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) Freda was there (also dancing) so it was pretty innocent, but a guy can dream can't he? Paz - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) > > << Paz wrote "It wasn't like I was rolling her in my arms or anything. But > yes...we danced like fools" > > and Kate wrote: > > LOL, very very tres mucho bueno grande coolio!!!! ...maybe she has written > you into one of her songs about that evening!!!!! i bet she has... > >> > > That's where Joni came up with the lyrics : "Kiss my ass!" I said > and I threw my drink..........from "Lead Balloon" :~) > > ......just kidding Mikey, it's probably more like .....honey you turn me on, > I'm a radio you butch boy! > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:55:05 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? I totally agree with Bob on this translation, that's how i've always thought of it too. Also, some people are just socially inept (my ex for example and it IS his fault). db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 1:49 PM To: colin@tantra-apso.com; blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com Cc: relayer211@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? <> I think she's just talking about her social life with him and HIS friends...to put it in context: "Your friends protect you Scrutinize me I get so damn timid Not at all the spirit That's inside of me Oh baby I can't seem to make it With you socially " Whatever makes their relationship work between the two of them doesn't translate when they are in public (or removed from the world in which they feel comfortable). That's my take on it anyway; I know from my own experience that I've dated women that didn't necessarily "fit" into the other spheres of my life at the time...obviously no one's fault, just the way things are sometime on the "social" level. Whether it's a class difference, age, a socioeconomic one, racial, or whatever. Bob NP: Eddie Reader, "Scarecrow" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:40:13 -0700 From: "Ian Scott" Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? Donna, Your wit is *sparkling* today. I love the second line again! lol Ian Donna wrote: >I totally agree with Bob on this translation, that's how i've always thought >of it too. Also, some people are just socially inept (my ex for example and >it IS his fault). db ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:35:12 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? blonde in the bleachers wrote: > It would seem that his friends don't like her and this is a good reason to end a relationship? Is Joni being shallow here? Or does he treat her differently because his friends don't like her? Has he not told his friends'well fuck you, I like her'? I don't think social class, race, friends, careers, family and all the other excuses are good enough reasons to end a relationship. Now if two people don't get on, can;t communicate, can't share, they are good reasons for a relationship to end. Ending because of other people is rather wimpy. In two weeks time it is our 20th anniversary and we are having a mini Joni gettogether to celebrate it. John and I come from completely different social backgrounds, have comnpletely different tastes in music, arts ect, different attitudes to life, very different temperaments. we have had no family to back our union, no societal backing, no legal backing, no spiritual backing. In fact we have had much pressure opposing our union. However, we committed to eachother at the get go, worked thru our idfferences and let our love of eachother see us thru the rough times(and there have been rough times-you try living with a bipolar abuse survivor!). Above all we accept eachother as we are and don't try and change eachother. John gets what he wants and needs from me and me from him. We each have different sets of friends that supply our other needs. The two sets don't mix and have never met. Our careers compliment eachother-he a high flying professional and me a knitwear designer cum house queen. He got what he wated out of life in terms of career and I got what I wanted-love and stability. Career never interested me. bw colin > > > "Maybe its paranoia,maybe its sensitivity, your friends protect you, > scrutinize me, I get so damn timid, not at all the spirit that's inside > of me, oh baby I can't seem to make it with you socially" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:39:08 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially I was thinking more about LIS and the line "I can't seem to make it with you socially" and recalled the line "He makes friends easy, he's not like me, I watch for judgment anxiously" from Car On The Hill and how these two lines express, IMHO, a very similar sentiment. It seems to me that Joni is merely acknowledging the differences between herself and her lover. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:50:36 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially > It seems to me that Joni is merely > acknowledging the differences between herself and her lover. both loines seem to suggest a shaky self esteem too. I can't iamgine feeling good about oneself and awaiting the judgement of others anxiously not worrying what someone esles' friends think of one. - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:14:47 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially In a message dated 6/20/01 6:45:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > I agree. I think in many ways Joni is a very vulnerable person. This comes thru in many of her lyrics. This aspect of her personality is one of the things that I was most able to identify with when I first started listening to her music. She had the ability to express what I was feeling. Don't get me wrong, I do think that she is a very strong woman--she is a survivor--but I feel that underneath all of the bravado, there is a very fragile and beautiful soul. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:17:09 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: I Can't Seem To Make It Socially In a message dated 6/20/01 7:31:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: << there is a very fragile and beautiful soul. >> That describes me too! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) - --- Michael Paz wrote: > Freda was there (also dancing) so it was pretty > innocent, but a guy can > dream can't he? > > Paz Yeah, but who was she dancing WITH? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:35:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Does this line ruin "L.I.S."? - --- "Donna J. Binkley" wrote: > I totally agree with Bob on this translation, that's > how i've always thought > of it too. Also, some people are just socially > inept (my ex for example and > it IS his fault). db > Honey, it's ALWAYS HIS fault! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:01:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? Catherine wrote: > i think I'd cut Jericho and Off Night Backstreet. To > me they don't belong on this album. Off Night Backstreet > just doesn't do much for me. I don't care for it as a > song and somehow, again, it just doesn't fit. Some on the list have discussed that the "Don Juan" in the album title refers to the Carlos Castandea character, Don Juan Matus, but I've always thought that her reference is to the legendary 17th Century Don Juan, the "reckless libertine." In the song Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Joni seems to be identifying with him, but in the song Off Night Backstreet, she expresses the painful downside of involvement with a "Don Juan" prototype. I think the song fits. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:38:07 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Don Juan - what would you cut? I think that Joni is quite deliberately invoking both characters. The references to the Castaneda books are clear (one small example: the line "oh say can you *see*" with *see* printed in italics on the liner notes: that's a Castaneda reference). But she would of course be aware that large portions of her audience would think immediately of the other Don Juan. When she calls herself Don Juan's reckless daughter, she's saying she's the heir of the spiritual teacher AND the libertine. > -----Original Message----- > Some on the list have discussed that the "Don Juan" in the album title > refers to the Carlos Castandea character, Don Juan Matus, but I've always > thought that her reference is to the legendary 17th Century Don Juan, the > "reckless libertine." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:02:02 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Swedish In a message dated 6/20/01 2:26:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: > Here ya go - I think I get the gist of it.... > > *When Joni Mitchell drinks too much "Tequila Anaconda" she likes to talk > about "Bergmans Nordic Blues", if you were to believe the song "Talk to me" > from 1977, and I like the fact that it was the currently, with restored > reputation but yet a B-film producer, Roger Corman, who brought in a number > of Bergman movies to the States during the 60?s and the 70?s. Why not also > mention Wes Craven, who?s terribly unpleasant "Last House on the Left", > wasn?t anything else but a new recording of Jungfrukallan (The Virgin?s > spring), which ironically enough was totally prohibited in Sweden.* > > Thanks so much for the translation Steve. The only word I could understand was "Joni Mitchell" !!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:55:30 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? "I come down from the crooked mansion I was lookin' for the DJ's daughter" Neil Young "Human Highway" Deb Messling wrote: > I think that Joni is quite deliberately invoking both characters. The > references to the Castaneda books are clear (one small example: the line > "oh say can you *see*" with *see* printed in italics on the liner notes: > that's a Castaneda reference). But she would of course be aware that large > portions of her audience would think immediately of the other Don Juan. > When she calls herself Don Juan's reckless daughter, she's saying she's the > heir of the spiritual teacher AND the libertine. > > > -----Original Message----- > > Some on the list have discussed that the "Don Juan" in the album title > > refers to the Carlos Castandea character, Don Juan Matus, but I've always > > thought that her reference is to the legendary 17th Century Don Juan, the > > "reckless libertine." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:07:11 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Don Juan - what would you cut? Aha, now I *see* it! Thanks, Deb. I think DJRD is her most mysterious album - new layers are always being revealed to me in it. It is not an easy one to get. I found this review from Rolling Stone on the JMDL articles site amusing -http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/780309rs.cfm Janet Maslin completely flicks it off (along with Hissing and Hejira, no less). I love reading some of these old reviews and wonder if the authors ever reconsidered their appraisals listening to the albums again years later. Kakki Deb wrote: > I think that Joni is quite deliberately invoking both characters. The > references to the Castaneda books are clear (one small example: the line > "oh say can you *see*" with *see* printed in italics on the liner notes: > that's a Castaneda reference). But she would of course be aware that large > portions of her audience would think immediately of the other Don Juan. > When she calls herself Don Juan's reckless daughter, she's saying she's the > heir of the spiritual teacher AND the libertine. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 00:59:25 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: jonatha Good luck in Chicago! Have you ever seen my show on the Austin Music Network called Louisiana JukeBox? Jonatha is on our best of this week. Check our web site for times. I have been friends with Austin's pride and joy Eric Johnson for many years. Peace NP-Digging-Jonatha (live at the fillmore 4-1-01) OH MY GAWD THANK YOU SO MUCH SANTA ***You know who you are!!!!***** on 6/19/01 8:38 PM, Neil Ellis Orts at neo@mail.utexas.edu wrote: > Michael wrote: > >> Sorry to those who are NOT >> interested in Jonatha and my raving on and on and on, but hey check the >> chick >> out, I'm a pimp for her baby and I am wicked good at. > > No apologies needed here! I saw her show here in Austin on Thursday night. > Oh my. My booty is still achin' from the kicking she gave it. > > She really does give an Excellent show. and she is a lot more than Joni > crossed with Sheryl. As comparisons go, that one isn't terrible, but not > what I would confine her to. > > After the show, i came home buzzing, logged onto her website and saw that > she has a show scheduled in Chicago in August (I think). Wahoo! I'm going > to try to see her then, too. > > And for all you Chicago joniphiles, thanks for the many offers to help > unload my U-Haul! I'll be in touch soon with some more details, 'kay? > > -Neil > soon to be of Chicago > ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 01:03:07 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Midwest "FEST" report Was mine really smaller??? Hmmm I have neveer had that complaint before, but i will report the matter to the front office. does SIZR really matter? BTW last time I checked I thought I had about 275 paid people thru the door at the Wolf. Maybe you had slipped into that tube top mini dress and slinked on down to the French Quarter by then!! LoL Love Paz P.S. Even a party of two JMDL'ers are cool! NP-No Better-JB Live on 6/19/01 9:47 PM, FMYFL@aol.com at FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/19/01 7:44:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: > > >> I know y'all are anxiously awaiting news from our Midwest Joni get-together. >> ;>) (It went from being called a fest, then a gathering, then a >> get-together.) >> >> > Hi Kerry. > I've attended a big Joni-fest at Ashara's, a smaller one at the Paz-fest, a > small gathering in LA with only 7 people from the list, and just a > get-togther with only two JMDLer's last year here in Ft. Myers. It really > doesn't matter the number of people. I've enjoyed each and everyone of them. > People who like Joni are good and caring people. We all have one thing in > common.............we all like Joni. So thanks for sharing the report of the > MIdwest fest. I know it had to be fun, and yes Steve Polifka is an added > bonus. I just wish I could have been there. > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 02:06:33 EDT From: TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Don Juan's edit log Phil,. I just wanted to tell you that this made me laugh!!!!!! And I still like Off Night Backstreet, but just for the fun of it. But I totally agree with all of your other cuts! : ) tanya in nyc >>My plans to edit Don Juan to a single album: Overture/Cotton Avenue Talk To Me Jericho Paprika Plains (with just a few slight edits, knocking off like 2 minutes) Otis and Marlena (reduce to a 2 minute instrumental that would flow right into--) The Tenth World (edited down to 3 minutes) Dreamland (edit a minute off of this) Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (edit 2 minutes off of this) The Silky Veils of Ardor *notice I am leaving off "Off Back Nightstreet"............I still feel that not only does it not sound like a "Joni" song, But I find it lyrically poor..........It sounds like it would fit a hell of a lot better on "Wild Things Run Fast" <------- Ok,. I'm running now.......... PHIL<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 01:11:49 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Subject: Pissing and telling...dancing & telling (SJC) If memeory serves I think it was Roger Clinton and of course me. It was a freaky night. Did I tell the story about Clinton TRYING to sing Love The One Your With? I certainly did love the ones "I" was with, but Roger's singing was a little to "white" for the Neville Brothers for my taste. I am researching the date of that show for my boy Les for his Joni Diary. Later Paz on 6/20/01 6:29 PM, Catherine McKay at anima_rising@yahoo.ca wrote: > --- Michael Paz wrote: >> Freda was there (also dancing) so it was pretty >> innocent, but a guy can >> dream can't he? >> >> Paz > > Yeah, but who was she dancing WITH? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 02:10:11 EDT From: TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Tenth World Hi everyone! I love love love all this Joni talk! While we're on the subject of DJRD, I'm a little puzzled about Tenth World. Did Joni have anything to do with this piece? I'm sure she didn't compose it. Occasionally she sings in the background. I guess I'm wondering how it came to be declared "hers". Any thoughts would be helpful. : ) tanya in nyc ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #190 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?