From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #183 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, June 15 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 183 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: June 14 [les@jmdl.com] Unfashionable winkers [Gordon Mackie ] RE: song connection contest re: a joni song ... i won!!!!! ["Deb Messling] Re: Joni performs in Concord CA [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Arkadia CD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Richard Thompson vljc ["Rob Ettridge" ] Re: Joni's use of "Stranger" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Unfashionable winkers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni's use of "Stranger" ["Donna J. Binkley" ] the good news ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni performs in Concord CA [Randy Remote ] Re: the good news [mags ] Re: Joni's use of "Stranger" [mags ] Re: Joni performs in Concord CA [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Joni's use of "Stranger", LONG 100% JC though. ["Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Unfashionable winkers SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote ...directly opposite to her fantasy of "Morning Morgantown" where she and (supposedly) her child are enjoying a mother-daughter day with pleasantries like: "We'll wink at total strangers passing In morning Morgantown" I loved this article (thoughtful and thought provoking) but never once thought it was a mother/daughter day descibed in Morning Morgantown. Nothing in the lyric leads me to think this...I always saw it was a song about two young lovers. Was it the 'wooden bird with painted wings' or the 'window full of coloured rings' that led you to think of it as parent/child?. It could be I suppose but not necessarily. To me the wink is about a cheeky 60's hippy in a mini skirt and her man giving staring ' strangers' something to think about. Winks make you think. Less acceptable these days I would imagine...the winker in the 'Big Brother' house has just been evicted...how do I know that and I don't even watch the tv programme..hmmm..British culture! Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:15:46 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: song connection contest re: a joni song ... i won!!!!! Congratulations, Mags! I think it's safe to say we ALL want to see what you wrote about it! > -----Original Message----- > .... I am just so excited!!! If you want to see what > I wrote about it, let me know. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling =^..^= - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:07:52 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni performs in Concord CA <> No...this would have been her full 1983 band: Vinnie Colluita/drums Larry Klein/bass Michael Landau/guitar Russell Ferrante/keyboards Les mentioned her show the following day at the Universal Amphitheatre...she really pulled out the stops and gave a full show, even after an extensive and exhausting European schedule and preceeding a cross-country stateside tour. I don't have the Concord show, but I do have the LA show, and I imagine the setlist for Concord would have been similar. Here's what she played in LA 6/13/83: 1. Free Man In Paris 2. Coyote 3. Cotton Avenue 4. Edith And The Kingpin 5. You Turn Me On, I’m A Radio 6. You Dream Flat Tires 7. Song For Sharon 8. God Must Be A Boogie Man 9. For Free 10. Big Yellow Taxi 11. A Case of You 12. Wild Things Run Fast 1. Sweet Bird 2. Banquet 3. Raised On Robbery 4. Refuge Of The Roads 5. (You’re So Square) Baby, I Don’t Care 6. Solid Love 7. Chinese Cafi/Unchained Melody 8. Help Me 9. Love 10. Both Sides Now 11. Heard It Through The Grapevine 12. Underneath the Streetlight 13. Woodstock 25 songs, including BSN which she didn't play a lot on the '83 tour...she always turns it on for the hometown crowd! Bob NP: Sam Phillips, "Fighting With Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:13:15 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Arkadia CD <> Yes, Bob...when you have it in hand, run around the store, jumping up & down yelling "YES!! THE NEW DAVID LAHM IS HERE - HOT DAMN!!" Well, maybe you can leave out the 'hot damn', but it would play pretty good here in SC! :~) Bob NP: Sam Phillips, "Lying" PS: If David had picked one of my clever titles, I would have REALLY raved! :~) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:19:39 -0500 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Richard Thompson vljc Debra wrote: >>P.S. Bob, now that I've mentioned my man Richard Thompson, did you see >>him in May? And, if so, what did you think? I saw Richard Thompson back last autumn some time in Reading. It was a very impressive performance. Just him and a guitar, and I hadn't realised how powerful his voice could be. Also the stories he told between songs were worth the price of the ticket. At one point he said how he always has requests waiting for him when he arrives at a venue, but that he wasn't going to do any of them that night, as all the songs people had asked for were written by Joni Mitchell! To be honest, so soon after the TNT tribute show, I was kinda hoping for his version of Black Crow myself... Rob NP(in my head) Richard Thompson - Sibella _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:19:45 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's use of "Stranger" <> Oh, I don't know...that was a Blanche Dubois quote, right? Joni mentions Blanche in "Sunny Sunday", which also takes as its theme a desperate woman who is perhaps a STRANGER even to herself. So Joni explores the theme even without the usage of the word itself... <> I'll post that separately so I can attach the proper NJC tag... Bob NP: 0+>, "Jam of the Year" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:07:50 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Unfashionable winkers <> Good point, Gordon...it's all speculation on my part, and up for discussion, to be sure...I guess the lyric I lean on for justification of my argument would be: <> The "Tea & Lemonade" reference suggests to me a parent-child interaction, of course it doesn't HAVE to be, and your conception of the young lovers works equally as well. Couple that with the image of a parent taking a child to a parade, with the little one on the shoulders so they can see...I know this is not a specific parade per se that Joni's writing about, but the imagery again suggests to me a parent-child experience. Also, as you mentioned: <> A wooden bird with painted wings & a window full of colored rings (suggesting a suncatcher or mobile or something like that) doesn't seem to me to be something that a young girl would want to buy a lover, but rather something that she'd want to give a child. Again, it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be that way, that's just what the song says to me... Keep in mind, she was performing this song WAY before she recorded it for LOTC. The thought that she gave Kelly up out of fear of not being able to provide for her seems to echo in the final words of the song: "But the only thing I have to give To make you smile, to win you with Are all the mornings still to live In morning Morgantown" Bob NP: 0+->, "I Can't Make You Love Me" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:35:54 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Joni's use of "Stranger" Ken - Yes, i have had thoughts on that line in both of the ways you mentioned. I have read JMDLr interpretations of lines of other Joni songs and had a totally different interpretation of my own, i guess it's just what each person feels about the song at the time of life that they hear it. Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of KJHSF@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:48 PM To: Joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni's use of "Stranger" Did I misinterpret something? I've always thought that "the trembling in my bones" was caused by the allure of a stranger's touch, rather than disdain for a stranger's touch. She's talking about being so glad to be on her own still (and I've taken the "still" to mean that the second idea will contradict the first), a stranger's touch is intoxicating. I've thought of this as another exploration into self-contradiction. To paraphrase; I like being alone, but I'm still thrilled by a stranger's touch. Has anyone else had this interpretation? Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:14:31 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: 1983 Concord California I also had the privilege of attending this concert. I purposely did not bring my camera so that I could "focus" on the music, rather than the images. Last night I treated myself to a manicure. As the emery board was running back and forth across my nails, I heard the familiar strains of "A Case of You" (BSN version) on the smooth jazz station. I blurted out to the manicurist, "Turn it up! It's my favorite song." I forget how loud my voice can be without trying... "Janey" jumped up out of her chair and ran over to "...turn up the radio..." Are you familiar with Joni, I ask. Janey replied, "I'm 51 years old, sure I've heard Joni." Then I started reciting the verse to "A Case of You" and told Janey about BSN (which she hadn't heard), the orchestra, the tour, the Grammies, the two different editions of BSN. It's such a joy to hear Joni when you least expect it. By the way, Sherelle, your demo knocked me out. Can't wait to hear more, you go girl! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:04:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: the good news I don't know if this has already been mentioned but I have heard that Annie Liebowitz (spelling?) is doing photoshoots of Joni, Leonard Cohen, & Tom Waits, not sure who else, for a feature in Vanity Fair. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:58:24 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni performs in Concord CA SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > <> > > No...this would have been her full 1983 band: > > Vinnie Colluita/drums > Larry Klein/bass > Michael Landau/guitar > Russell Ferrante/keyboards > I was there, too...I remember it as more of a band show... Vinnie was shining....the only thing I really remember was "I Heard It Through The Grapevine", oddly enough. I don't think it was quite the marathon show that she did in LA. Didn't the Persuasions play at this one, too? RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:47:01 -0400 From: mags Subject: Re: the good news Kate Bennett wrote: > < > Liebowitz (spelling?) is doing photoshoots of Joni, Leonard Cohen, & Tom > Waits, not sure who else, for a feature in Vanity Fair.>> Seems to me that Annie Liebovitz did the shoot of Joni for Vanity Fair in June 1997 if Im not mistaken. She is an awesome photographer...I really love her work. Mags np: Only a Woman's Heart....Eleanor McEvoy!!!! she's fantastic!!!! > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:55:34 -0400 From: mags Subject: Re: Joni's use of "Stranger" "Donna J. Binkley" wrote: > > > < have read JMDLr interpretations of lines of other Joni songs and had a > totally different interpretation of my own, i guess it's just what each > person feels about the song at the time of life that they hear it.>> This is something that always struck me about our Joni..she has said time and time again that it doesnt matter so much what the song means/meant to her...what she wants to know is what her songs mean to us, her fans. I always enjoy hearing someone else's interpretation of a Joni song. And yes, different songs can have meaning for something deep inside that no one knows about or touch us in ways that might parallel a life experience...or speak the words that our hearts cannot. Mags.... still listening to Eleanor! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of KJHSF@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:48 PM > To: Joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Joni's use of "Stranger" > > Did I misinterpret something? I've always thought that "the trembling in my > bones" was caused by the allure of a stranger's touch, rather than disdain > for > a stranger's touch. She's talking about being so glad to be on her own > still > (and I've taken the "still" to mean that the second idea will contradict > the > first), a stranger's touch is intoxicating. I've thought of this as another > exploration into self-contradiction. To paraphrase; I like being alone, but > I'm still thrilled by a stranger's touch. Has anyone else had this > interpretation? > Ken - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:41:27 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni performs in Concord CA Randy Remote writes: <> This show was a while back obviously, but I don't remember the Persuasions at the Concord show. I do recall Joni adding a 'new' bridge to "Real Good for Free" ("...like a fallen angel/like a rising star/playing for a hatful of nothing...") And I do recall Vin Vin Colaiuta being great on the drums. Whatever happened to him, I wonder? I have the program from this, Joni's 1983 Wild Things Run Fast tour and am perusing it now. It's cool. Very cool, indeed. Color repros of some of Joni's art circa _Mingus_, some great full color photos of Joan and the band a nice little bio with comment on her albums to date. Lyrics to "Refuge of the Road" are printed against the backdrop of a color version of the _Hejira_ album cover photo/art which spans two pages. I couldn't help but smile and giggle when my eyes fell on a "RotR" verse that is prototypic Joan: I pulled off into a forest Crickets clicking in the ferns Like a wheel of fortune I heard my fate turn, turn, turn And I went running down a white sand road I was running like a white-assed deer Running to lose the blues... One the back cover of the program there's a "Special Commerative (sic) Tour Offer" which advertises "Her latest single 'Chinese Cafe' plus free bonus interview/competition disc featuring Joni in conversation, and a chance to win one of 100 personally autographed fine art prints by Joni." I'm wondering if anyone here has this heirloom disc and what Joni might've said in the interview. Is this transcribed on jmdl.com, Les? Any one have the disc or one of the aforementioned prints? In small print it says "Special Offer 7" Pack: GEF A3122" if that helps. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:39:34 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's use of "Stranger", LONG 100% JC though. Ha! A **lyric** thread! This is what I signed on for, eh? Thanks for researching Joni's use of the word "stranger", Bob, the SCJoniGuy. What a great job of dissecting the various flavors of strangers. I hadn't taken note of Morning Morgantown's quote. Totally cool. She's so comfortable in her own skin, with her baby that she'll "wink at total strangers, passing." Never having "no child to raise", I haven't felt that but I've seen it in my sister and brothers. There's a hint of the deeper duality to come there too. Now, on to my own literary takes on Joni Mitchell. Bob quoted "Down to You": "In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize" then opined that her stranger represents "the unknown". I guess I feel differently. My feeling is that her "stranger" represents something more uhh... corporeal. (Sorry Colin- I couldn't resist.) I mean, to me, she's talking about the difference between last night's stranger (a lover) and this morning's stranger on the street (an elbow in the ribs?). To me, the author is noticing an irony that uhhhn, she was uhhhn, seeking a stranger last evening but is dodging a stranger in the morning. Her strangers showcase yet another trademark Joni duality- two "takes" on sudden intimacy. (Ah! Fodder for my "Duality II essay"!) In "Woman Of Heart And Mind", the author suspects that her friend's strangers leave him on the empty side. The way I read it, the author doesn't have a problem with strangers but she suspects that _he_ does. To wit: "You're always disappointed. Nothing seems to keep you high. Drive your bargains, Push your papers, Win your medals, Fuck your strangers. Don't it leave you on the empty side?" I always, always, confuse the friend in "Woman Of Heart And Mind" with Richard in "The Last Time I Saw Richard". To me, they have always been the same guy. He's always dissapointed (in WOHAM), he marries a figure skater (in TLTISR), and accuses Joni, err... the author, of tricking herself about Luv. Then, Bob directs us to Joni's stranger in "Hejira" thusly: >>""Still somehow the slightest touch of a stranger Can set up trembling in my bones">> In the context of Hejira, Ms. Mitchell is on the lam. (Sorry Colin.) A defector. She's run away from something that has failed. She's *rejected* someone. Yet, again, she "still feels the pull" (as Neil Young observed). Regarding her new stranger, she's not trembling in fright, in my view. She's going, "Ooooh, baby, baby", as Smokey Robinson observed. But because she's the Joanster, she experiences the Duality and irony of rejecting-that / loving-this simultaneously. I submit that this quote illustrates why Joni is "deep". As the expression goes over here, "Her picture is in the dictionary next to the word." :) Debra Shea noted: >>>>"You can crawl--you can fly too" Ooohh, chilly! That person's a stranger even to herself. The crawl and fly line makes me think it's Joni singing about herself (snake and eagle), which I'd never considered before.>>>> Deb, all I can say is "WOW!" I love this list and all of you who "get" this stuff. Lama Randy said, >> Bob, you've never written a stranger post.>> Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. Hey Moe, a pun! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:27:18 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Strangers and Bobs Bob S. wrote of Bob M " A great review, by our premier poster and critic." And then Bob S read Bob M's post on 'strangers'. Another one of his best posts ever. By the bye, perhaps it was her long-time interest in this thread that persuaded her to co-write the song that spends its whole time on the subject without direct mention of the word - Yvette in English. She probably was hooked by the scene that Crosby presented to her. Did not get to the store today to buy David's CD, but tomorrow I am "on the Lam" so I hope to listen this weekend. ;-) Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:42:15 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: JMDL photos - Marian, Shane, Casa Alegre & more Hi all, I finally got the chance to put up some photos on Photopoint of Marian's and Shane's recent visits to L.A. and also created another album of our partying at Coyote Rick's famous Casa Alegre and points beyond during the opening night of Joni's L.A. BSN Tour last year. Looking at all of these bring back so many good memories. (I know I need some serious camera advice from Annie Liebovitz, but these will have to do for now ;-) There are two links below for the albums. Kakki For Marian and Shane click this link: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1481388&a=13272687 If you use AOL, use this link to see the photos. Click here For Casa Alegre/BSN Tour 2000 click this link: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1481388&a=13273189 If you use AOL, use this link to see the photos. Click here If neither of the links are clickable, simply cut and paste the first link into your web browser. If you have any trouble, please contact Customer Service at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/FormEmail?expand=true&File=contact_support ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:01:18 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: Joni's use of "Stranger" hi a while ago, someone posted an email, about a friend asking them why they loved joni's music. as i recall, their response was along the lines of "it makes me think" they then went on to question whether that was a proper/valid/good response. "surely there should be something more to music than thinking?" was their logic as i remember.. i was driving along the other day, listening to s&l on my car cd. ive known the album for a long, long time. but even after all the times ive listened to it"shadows and light" still gets to me. goosebumps from a song ive listened to countless time. familiarity breeds respect??? and i started thinking about that posting. im no language expert, and dont really know the word derivations etc. but i started thinking about the word "music", which after all, is a one word description of this thing that gets under your skin, & changes your life so totally. similar words i came up with, which seemed to be related to "music" were: "amusing" pretty much somes up most top 20/pop music. light, entertaining, not much substance. nothing wrong with that, but there must be more to it than that. also pretty much sums up listeners, who never went any further. again, nothing wrong with that. if theyre happy & content - no problem. i dont really believe that tho - personally i think that far too many of those people are really unhappy and unsatisfied, trying to sustain themselves on "amusement" to try & fill those inner cravings for more. "muse" to think on something. here we have another element of music. it must be something we can think on. a step beyond the normal "pop" music with substance. quality lyrics, melody, harmony & rhythm that we can think about. yes, we can think about more than lyrics. that melody that goes in the opposite direction to the same old cliches weve grown accustomed to. im sure weve all experienced it at sometime. where we are so confident it will go in the way weve grown accustomed to, but it doesnt & we do a double take "hey what happened!!" we think about it. "muse" same word here, but different meaning. here im thinking about the muses of greek mythology (NOT sharon stone/olivia newton john!!) the personification of inpiration. the spiritual boost that cuts down deep. gets into your spirit, makes you feel one with the artist, even though you may never actually know them physically. the thing that makes you love the work of the artist. so, yet again, another "threefer" as someone once called it on this list. coincidentally, we are also threefers. all of us. spirit, soul & body. which relates pretty directly to the three elements of music. and especially how we get them. to be truly great, music has to have _all_ three elements. jonis music has all three elements. ( i was going to say imho, but its not an opinion, its an indisputable _fact_) for many years i enjoyed "hejira" great song, great music. i was always somehow aware there was something more there than i was getting, but it never gelled. ?? the "amusing" stage - relating to the body/flesh?? then as i matured, i came to appreciate lyrics, the imagery, the poetry - like so many of jonis lyrics, it is better than much poetry i have read. the melody became richer, i started to appreciate the sheer poetry of sound. the "muse" as in thinking, to reflect on stage?? relating to the soul, the thought process?? today i read bobs posting on the recurrent theme of "stranger" in jonis music. the examples he gave added up to such an overwhelming sense of alienation, that i went back, spent sometime concentrating on the lyrics. wanting to get a better perception of the alienation/isolation theme i projected myself into the lyrics. wow!!!! suddenly it gelled. i got it, i felt it. something deep inside of me identified, and i felt that deep understanding/release catharsis. suddenly a great song became a masterpiece. something so personal & deep. the "muse" as in inspiration stage???? the spritual stage?? one of the reasons why i love this group. its a "madness" group - it goes "one step beyond" actually, i suppose, in a lot of ways, like jonis music, it has all three elements. it entertains, it provokes thought, and it inspires. ron ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #183 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?