From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #173 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, June 5 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 173 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- [none] ["Greer, Ron" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 [Catherine McKay ] RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 ["Donna J. Binkley" ] Re: NY Fest, Feminist, Egotists, Capitalists, Rapists, etc. Whew ! :-) [S] The very first Jonifest in Germany [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Helga_L=F6ltgen?= ] Re: The very first Jonifest in Germany [catman ] Re: Harbourfront(JC) [Jerry Notaro ] Today's Joni Articles: June 04 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Joni Articles: June 04 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Today's Joni Articles: June 04 [Les Irvin ] Joni and Rufus ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Post polio syndrome [Steve Dulson ] Re: Harbourfront(JC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Harbourfront(JC) [Catherine McKay ] Today's Joni Articles: June 5 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: June 5 [les@jmdl.com] guitar site ["Kate Bennett" ] Today's Joni Articles: June 5 [les@jmdl.com] Today in Joni History: June 5 [les@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:32:45 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: [none] >circumcision is an accepted surgical procedure and a ritual, holy act - >at least in the eyes of most people, who as you've pointed out do not >share your view of it as abuse. we have a number of deaths here each year as a result of the ritual circumcision. it is seen as a rite of passage into adulthood, and is performed by a sangoma (witchdoctor) on a number of people at once, using the same knife, without cleaning the (blunt) knife. although it is said to be without anaesthetic, a mixture of herbs which supposedly kills the pain is in fact applied. unfortunately, no antiseptic is traditionally used. previously efforts were made to stop the practice, which led to great resistance, and the ritual being performed in secret. nowadays, more effort is being made to upgrade the ritual by supply of sterile, sharp knives/scalpels, and antiseptic to apply afterwards. >someone saying they could not imagine a jazz version > of Conversation. Ever since then it has been in my in view of the latest topics, perhaps it could be redone as "he comes for circumcision i comfort him these times" ??????????????????? ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:29:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 - --- Stacey4882@aol.com wrote: > << Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 23:44:53 +0100 > From: catman > Subject: Re: Genital Mutilation - absolutely NJC > > I think most people do realise there is a > difference in severity [between > circumcision and female genital mutilation]. However > both are wrong and one > is not less wrong than the other. >> > > With all due respect, how can you say "one is not > less wrong than the other?" > Men who are circumcized are able to have full, > healthy sex lives. Women who > suffer genital mutilation suffer pain throughout > their lives and are unable > to enjoy sex. "Wrong" does have degrees. > > (Personally, I am undecided about whether > circumcision is acceptable or not. > On a related note, I will share that once, on a > first date and over dinner, > the guy made sure I knew that no son of his would > ever be circumsized. Yes, > he was rather an intense fellow.) > One of the reasons people do/used to have their baby boys circumcised relates to medical opinion. It goes in and out of style, or medical expertise/opinion, whether or not circumcision is "good" medical practice for hygenic reasons. When my son was born, we did have him circumcised partly for this reason and partly because my husband was circumcised. I wasn't crazy about the idea (why hurt a newborn if it's not necessary? they don't even use a local anaesthetic! if men weren't meant to have foreskins, why are they born with them, and so on?) but I figured this was a "guy thing" and what did I know about it? If I had to do it over again, I am quite sure I would not have done it. Strangely enough, our health insurance used to cover this as a medical procedure, but it was delisted a few years ago "unless medically necessary" (which would mean the boy or man would probably have to have recurring infections). When they did cover it, it was based on medical opinion and recommendation. Same thing when they delisted it. Plus, delisting it saved the health plan some bucks. Female "circumcision" involves a lot more though than cutting off a piece of skin and is often done in extremely unhygenic conditions. It's usually done at puberty and, in addition to excising the clitoris, the girl's labia are sewn up (among other things). The girl/woman ends up having extreme difficulty with urination/menstruation and of course childbirth and can often end up with horrible infections, not to mention constant pain. The purpose of it is to keep the woman faithful to her husband because sexual intercourse is so painful, she wouldn't even dream of having sex with another man (let alone her husband). As I say, if I had to do it over, I wouldn't have had my son circumcised, but female genital mutilation is quite a different thing. (This is a pretty yicky thread.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:32:02 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 How did we get from Paprika Plains to genital mutiliation is what i'd like to know. db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 10:29 AM To: Stacey4882@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #242 - --- Stacey4882@aol.com wrote: > << Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 23:44:53 +0100 > From: catman > Subject: Re: Genital Mutilation - absolutely NJC > > I think most people do realise there is a > difference in severity [between > circumcision and female genital mutilation]. However > both are wrong and one > is not less wrong than the other. >> > > With all due respect, how can you say "one is not > less wrong than the other?" > Men who are circumcized are able to have full, > healthy sex lives. Women who > suffer genital mutilation suffer pain throughout > their lives and are unable > to enjoy sex. "Wrong" does have degrees. > > (Personally, I am undecided about whether > circumcision is acceptable or not. > On a related note, I will share that once, on a > first date and over dinner, > the guy made sure I knew that no son of his would > ever be circumsized. Yes, > he was rather an intense fellow.) > One of the reasons people do/used to have their baby boys circumcised relates to medical opinion. It goes in and out of style, or medical expertise/opinion, whether or not circumcision is "good" medical practice for hygenic reasons. When my son was born, we did have him circumcised partly for this reason and partly because my husband was circumcised. I wasn't crazy about the idea (why hurt a newborn if it's not necessary? they don't even use a local anaesthetic! if men weren't meant to have foreskins, why are they born with them, and so on?) but I figured this was a "guy thing" and what did I know about it? If I had to do it over again, I am quite sure I would not have done it. Strangely enough, our health insurance used to cover this as a medical procedure, but it was delisted a few years ago "unless medically necessary" (which would mean the boy or man would probably have to have recurring infections). When they did cover it, it was based on medical opinion and recommendation. Same thing when they delisted it. Plus, delisting it saved the health plan some bucks. Female "circumcision" involves a lot more though than cutting off a piece of skin and is often done in extremely unhygenic conditions. It's usually done at puberty and, in addition to excising the clitoris, the girl's labia are sewn up (among other things). The girl/woman ends up having extreme difficulty with urination/menstruation and of course childbirth and can often end up with horrible infections, not to mention constant pain. The purpose of it is to keep the woman faithful to her husband because sexual intercourse is so painful, she wouldn't even dream of having sex with another man (let alone her husband). As I say, if I had to do it over, I wouldn't have had my son circumcised, but female genital mutilation is quite a different thing. (This is a pretty yicky thread.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:00:19 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: NY Fest, Feminist, Egotists, Capitalists, Rapists, etc. Whew ! :-) Hi Bob: Thanks for the kudos on the Guitar site. A team effort there that I am very proud of (with Mark Domyancich, Marian Russell, and Howard Wright-tabbers extraordinaire). When I first thought of the idea I didn't realize that 5 years later we would still be striving to finish her catalog. The woman is a Guitar Goddess. But back to this feminist thing. I agree with you about the egoist thing, which relates to the capitalist thing (which Joni obviously subscribes to also) which in turn brings us to the liberal thing (liberal in the sense of founding fathers of the Constitution FREEDOM...which I think she has accepted as an expatriate [plus artists thrive on freedom of expression). So when you get to the item number 2 (the political action leg of the idea) this pounds against the three political ideas we have just mentioned. Now I could probably write a Ph.D. thesis on just this dynamic but let's just agree that as a supreme role model of a successful talented female in a male-dominated business, Joni walks the walk. In my opinion, human rights violations, be they against women or men, should be elevated beyond political agendas. These are heinous crimes which no civilization should tolerate. So this is why I think Friedan was right that the focus should be humans in general and not just woman. Pray for the world friends, we are still evolving. take care, suemc ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:50:40 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Helga_L=F6ltgen?= Subject: The very first Jonifest in Germany has come to an end. And although it was a very intimate one: IT WAS GREAT! Thank you once again Karin and Gvtz and Doris for welcoming me down at Iserlohn, for your hospitality, for your kindness and warmth. For making me feel at home.. Unfortunately Karin and I - the Joni ones - can4t make it this year, but hopefully next year, and we4re looking forward to meeting not only Wally, Garret, Steve from IoS, John van T., Colin (bw), Alison , Marian, Ashara, Kakki, Kate B. and.........., but all the others who like to get in touch and celebrate and simply have a good time. And finally, can you help us, we tried to "translate": reel to reel (from Coyote), is it an idiom/slang for reality? Please give us your interpretation, your thoughts: Indigo94@12move.de Love and best wishes Helga from Germany (AND ALL YOU GERMANS - what about you, there must be hundreds (thousands) of ...., and Hans G|tlinger, where do you come from, and the one on the members profile list, who wrote sth about a Jonifest in Germany?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:57:52 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: The very first Jonifest in Germany At 10:50 AM 6/4/2001, Helga Lvltgen wrote: >And finally, can you help us, we tried to "translate": reel to reel (from >Coyote), is it an idiom/slang for reality? Helga - Thanks for the report on the German JoniFest! Sounded like fun. "Reel to Reel" is one of the many terms that is defined in the Glossary section on the JMDL website. Find it here: http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/index.cfm. Les NP: Los Lobos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:27:42 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The very first Jonifest in Germany > Unfortunately Karin and I - the Joni ones - can4t make it this year, but > hopefully next year, and we4re looking forward to meeting > not only Wally, Garret, Steve from IoS, John van T., Colin (bw), Alison , > Marian, Ashara, Kakki, Kate B. and.........., It would be good to meet you too Helga but I will not be at the US jonifest this year. The stingy bastards wouldn't pay for me to come. Seriously, i couldn't go with work commitments and all my dogs. tho I suppose i could fly out just for two days but as I said, they are a stingy lot. Mind you, i think more than a few would pay me not to come, especially with my foreskin. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:41:06 From: Lisa Kowalski Subject: Harbourfront(JC) I've ordered tickets to the Joni Tribute in Toronto! Yeah! and I was wondering if someone could let me know what hotels are close to the Harbourfront? and whoever else is going;where are you staying and can we meet up for drinks or dinner or something? It would be great to meet other Joni people and hang out and see some of Toronto(I've never been and am very excited to be going!) Lisa K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:26:58 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Harbourfront(JC) Lisa Kowalski wrote: > I've ordered tickets to the Joni Tribute in Toronto! Yeah! and I was > wondering if someone could let me know what hotels are close to the > Harbourfront? and whoever else is going;where are you staying and can we > meet up for drinks or dinner or something? It would be great to meet other > Joni people and hang out and see some of Toronto(I've never been and am > very excited to be going!) The hotels in that area are among the most expensive in the city, though the exchange rate is very good. Try staying in Yorkville area, Joni's old stomping ground. It isn't far and is much more diverse and interesting. Jerry NP: Rufus Wainwright - Evil Angel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:44:41 -0600 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Joni Articles: June 04 On June 04 these Joni articles were published: 1988: "Idol Talk" - New Musical Express (http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/880604nme.cfm)1998: "Here's to Mitchell, Beatty for avoiding compromising positions" - San Diego Union-Tribune (http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980604sdu.cfm) - ------------------------ The Article database currently has 592 titles: http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:50:34 -0600 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Joni Articles: June 04 On June 04 these Joni articles were published: 1988: "Idol Talk" - New Musical Express (http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/880604nme.cfm)1998: "Here's to Mitchell, Beatty for avoiding compromising positions" - San Diego Union-Tribune (http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980604sdu.cfm) - ------------------------ The Article database currently has 592 titles: http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:06:00 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Today's Joni Articles: June 04 Joniphiles - Sorry for the multiple postings... I'm tweaking a new feature for the list and, as you can see, its still got a few bugs! Les NP: NPR hourly news ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:40:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Joni and Rufus From The Rolling Stone rave review of Rufus Wainwright's new cd Poses: Great pop albums are successful evocations of a type of life: it must be a life lived by more than one person, but it doesn't matter if it is a small handful (the circle of trannies and drug connections described by Lou Reed's Transformer) or thousands (the post-hippie women who understood Joni Mitchell's Blue on the deepest frequencies.) Poses achieves this for the life of the Chelsea Boy. Those are some awesome comparisons. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:45:44 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Post polio syndrome CNN has a story on what Joni might be facing at: http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/post.polio/index.html - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://www.scdh.org "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:50:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Harbourfront(JC) - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > Lisa Kowalski wrote: > > > I've ordered tickets to the Joni Tribute in > Toronto! Yeah! and I was > > wondering if someone could let me know what hotels > are close to the > > Harbourfront? and whoever else is going;where are > you staying and can we > > meet up for drinks or dinner or something? It > would be great to meet other > > Joni people and hang out and see some of > Toronto(I've never been and am > > very excited to be going!) > > The hotels in that area are among the most expensive > in the city, though the > exchange rate is very good. Try staying in Yorkville > area, Joni's old > stomping ground. It isn't far and is much more > diverse and interesting. > Jerry, I don't know when you were last in Toronto, but the Yorkville of today is nothing like it was when Joni was there. It's Trendy Town and very expensive. There is a certain amount of atmosphere if you've got the cash for it, but it's TrendyTown atmosphere, not the genuine thing. I have no idea what people consider reasonable hotel-wise, but generally, Toronto is pretty expensive (probably less so than New York or LA, but I don't travel, so I don't really know.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:51:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Harbourfront(JC) - --- Lisa Kowalski wrote: > I've ordered tickets to the Joni Tribute in > Toronto! Yeah! and I was > wondering if someone could let me know what hotels > are close to the > Harbourfront? and whoever else is going;where are > you staying and can we > meet up for drinks or dinner or something? It would > be great to meet other > Joni people and hang out and see some of > Toronto(I've never been and am > very excited to be going!) > I'd be interested in drinks or dinner, but won't be attending the event (can't afford it). lucky for me, I live here, so I don't need to worry about hotel rates and so on. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:00:36 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Joni Articles: June 5 On June 5 this article about Joni was published: 2000: "Camden Concert" - Philadelphia Inquirer (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000605pi.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database currently has 592 titles: http://www.jmdl.com/articles Contributions always welcome! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:00:36 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: June 5 On June 5 in Joni Mitchell History: 1988: Joni is interviewed for the "Sunday" show in Australia 1993: Joni performs at the Troubadours of Folk Festival at UCLA. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/TroubadoursFest93.html - ------------------------ Do you know a date or month specific Joni fact? Email it to les@jmdl.com and I'll add it to the database. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:29:40 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: guitar site Sue wrote, "Thanks for the kudos on the Guitar site. A team effort there that I am very proud of (with Mark Domyancich, Marian Russell, and Howard Wright-tabbers extraordinaire). When I first thought of the idea I didn't realize that 5 years later we would still be striving to finish her catalog. The woman is a Guitar Goddess. And I have to chime in my HUGE thanks to all of you for what you have done on this amazing site. If Joni is the Goddess ya'll are the high priests & priestess.... Sue continued, "let's just agree that as a supreme role model of a successful talented female in a male-dominated business, Joni walks the walk." AMEN ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:25:30 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Joni Articles: June 5 On June 5 this article about Joni was published: 2000: "Camden Concert" - Philadelphia Inquirer (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000605pi.cfm - ------------------------ The JMDL Article Database currently has 593 titles. http://www.jmdl.com/articles Contributions always welcome! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:25:30 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: June 5 On June 5 in Joni Mitchell History: 1988: Joni is interviewed for the "Sunday" show in Australia 1993: Joni performs at the Troubadours of Folk Festival at UCLA. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/TroubadoursFest93.html - ------------------------ Do you know a date or month specific Joni fact? Email it to les@jmdl.com and I'll add it to the database. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #173 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?