From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #163 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, May 26 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 163 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: S&L DVD ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: S&L DVD ["Jamie Zubairi" ] RE: S&L DVD ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: chelsea morning/same situation ["hell" ] joni the raging feminist [Kate ] Nice Joni article from a Penn State website [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Nice Joni article from a Penn State website [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: chelsea morning/same situation(sjc) ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: S&L DVD, the %.1 mystery solved [Jerry Notaro ] J L'H mentioned in Q magazine's greatest album covers issue ["C.A. Starke] Re: joni/feminism/Chrissie Hynde and a Blue Heron (VLJC) ["Brenda J. Walk] Re: S&L DVD ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Fw: Same Situation ["janine sherman" ] Re: S&L DVD ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: joni/feminism/Chrissie Hynde and a Blue Heron (VLJC) ["Kakki" Subject: Re: S&L DVD I got mine for my birthday last year. Having never seen it before, I thought itwas an amazing show. Jaco's solo (deleted from the album) is pretty astounding! My brother got it from audiophileimports.com Happy watching Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" To: "Vince Lavieri" ; "joni" Sent: 24 May 2001 03:32 Subject: Re: S&L DVD > --- Vince Lavieri wrote: > > Today amazon alerted me that my dvd on S&L has been > > shipped! > > > > So it is finally out of whatever limbo it was in and > > I will post about > > it when it comes! > > > > (the Rev) Vince > > I ordered through CDNow - and mine also shipped today. > Wonder who'll get theirs first? Probably you because > you're not an alien like me. > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:38:16 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: S&L DVD Well, it's not a letterbox, I thought it was but it was only my DVD set up wrong. It's in proper format, which is nice The sound is good but I can only say that it has quite a good separation. There are things in it I have heard on the DVD that I didn't on the HDCD. Mind you, not sure that Joni's voice comes off nicer. It might be a case of too much information to process all at once to define whether it comes out clearly because I'm sat there staring at her face! The S&L song which was my preferred version (to the HOSL) wasn't a standout track, if you know what I mean. But picture and sound, perhaps too much for my little untrained ear to digest! The instruments come out shining. Much Joni Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "Catherine McKay" Cc: "Vince Lavieri" ; "joni" Sent: 24 May 2001 13:41 Subject: Re: S&L DVD > Catherine McKay wrote: > > > --- Vince Lavieri wrote: > > > Today amazon alerted me that my dvd on S&L has been > > > shipped! > > > > > > So it is finally out of whatever limbo it was in and > > > I will post about > > > it when it comes! > > > > > > (the Rev) Vince > > > > I ordered through CDNow - and mine also shipped today. > > Wonder who'll get theirs first? Probably you because > > you're not an alien like me. > > Well I hope someone gives us a report on the %.1 sound mix. If it is > good then it will be worth buying. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 04:46:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: S&L DVD so this is only on dvd, not vhs? wallyK, i could kick myself for not having taped it one of the million times they showed it on tv in the 80's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Jamie Zubairi Enviado el: Viernes, 25 de Mayo de 2001 04:38 a.m. Para: Jerry Notaro; Catherine McKay CC: Vince Lavieri; joni Asunto: Re: S&L DVD Well, it's not a letterbox, I thought it was but it was only my DVD set up wrong. It's in proper format, which is nice > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:47:56 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: chelsea morning/same situation Catherine wrote: > Maybe I misinterpreted what Relayer was trying to say, > but it makes sense to me. Who is going to hear your > prayer when heaven (as a child would see it, up there > in the clouds) has become a place "full of astronauts" > (like the "conquered moon")? So heaven isn't there > anymore. And "God is dead", the Lord is on death row. > There's no heaven, there's no God - so who are you > going to pray to, and who is going to hear? (But she > prays anyway.) For what it's worth, this is exactly how I interpret this song too: she's saying that now we've "de-mystified" the skies by sending so many people up there, we can no longer expect people to believe that heaven is up there somewhere. And I never thought that "the lord on death row" referred to any one person, but rather was said in conjunction with the line about the heavens, ie. if we're saying that heaven is no longer there, how can we be sure there's a god, hence the whole concept of god and heaven getting shaky, eg. on death row. My $0.02. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:14:15 -0500 From: Kate Subject: joni the raging feminist HEll: - -- > if you redefine the definition, > then yes, I am a feminist, but with it's current interpretation, I would > never use that label. The current definition (in the dictionaries I've seen, anyway) is that femininism is about equality between the sexes -- yes, equality of opportunity -- no one suggests the two sexes are the same -- but you're right, everyone you talk to thinks it means putting men down and lifting women up at men's expense. It's too bad, but maybe that sort of extremism was necessary to get the ball rolling back in the sixties. Not that there still isn't a long way to go, but we need men's help with this -- it benefits them as well. My guess is that Joni was belittled even as a musician because she was female (what, can't play because you're a girl?) and so she prefers to identify with males, who had the power and acceptance at that time, generally, in the music biz. Lots of women have done that -- distance themselves from their own sex in order to ally with the more powerful one. I am sure that Joni's "I am not a feminist," which I heard her say at the Edmonton Folk Fest (and was sorely disappointed, felt betrayed), is only the tip of the subject for her and does not adequately explain all that she thinks about it. Because I really doubt she believes women should not have equal rights. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:38:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Nice Joni article from a Penn State website The opening phrase of the article hooked *ME*... "If cover songs are tributes to one's predecessors, no one, save Bob Dylan, has had more influence on contemporary pop music than Joni Mitchell." Oh sure, NOW they tell me! ;~) if you want to catch the whole piece: http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1998/11/11-06-98tdc/11-05-98darts-7.asp Bob NP: John Mellencamp, "Rain on the Scarecrow" live in Germany 3/18/99 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:20:44 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Nice Joni article from a Penn State website Our "Cover" boy Bob wrote: << "If cover songs are tributes to one's predecessors, no one, save Bob Dylan, has had more influence on contemporary pop music than Joni Mitchell." Oh sure, NOW they tell me! ;~) >> Yes Bob, I can imagine when you're 93 and in the nursing home, someone will be sending you an old LP of the Turkish musician Ahmed Adnan Saygun singing "Both Sides Now" for volume # 426. :~) Have a good Memorial weekend U.S. jmdlers! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:32:15 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: chelsea morning/same situation(sjc) Charles Manson believed he was Jesus Christ, but by 1974 (I think that is the year C&S was released) I believe he was already in jail as the Tate/LaBianca murders occurred in 1969. I always interpreted the line to be "with heaven full of astronauts and the lord underthrown" (I believe someone else said the same thing) It is hard for me to think that Joni would elude to Charles Manson in her songwriting, but I never thought about it either. >From: Randy Remote >Reply-To: Randy Remote >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: chelsea morning/same situation >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:07:01 -0700 > >"With heaven full of astronauts >And the Lord on deathrow" > >I, too have interpreted this line as a reference to Manson. >If I remember right, he, as so many cult leaders, considered >himself Christ returned. I think Joni was being sarcastic (and >cryptic). What could be more out of whack than people strapping >themselves to big roman candles and propelling themselves into >the heavens, and Jesus a mass-murderer. Still, she sends up >her prayer, wondering who is there to hear.... >RR > >IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/24/01 10:22:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > cvickery@danielrealty.com writes: > > > > << Paul opined < > Row" as a reference to > > Charles Manson.>> > > > > Really?? I can't imagine that Joni would be that "into" Manson. > > I always just assumed it was a reference to the whole "God is > > Dead" school of thought.... > > > > (As an aside - intersting capitalization.... "lord" but "Death > > Row." Just an observation, not a critique.) > > > > Cindy >> > > > > Not that she was "into" Manson at all; instead, I think she is giving us >a > > cynical take on the media reports of the time. By the way, according to >AP > > style, Death Row is capped when you are referring to a particular one. >And I > > lowercase "lord" because I don't think she was referring to the deity. I > > don't remember how it appears in the lyrics on the album. > > > > Paul I _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: chelsea morning/same situation(sjc) On Fri, 25 May 2001, blonde in the bleachers wrote: > It is hard for me to think that Joni would elude to Charles Manson in her > songwriting, but I never thought about it either. That's part of her lyric genius. To be able to summon equally valid and vivid imagery and interpretation with the same simple words. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:51:03 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni on Dylan I don't know if anyone posted this, but I found this on Rolling Stone, Joni's wishes for Bob's 60th birthday. Joni Mitchell on Dylan No one has come close to being as good a writer as Dylan. He had these grand themes, these cast-of-thousands kind of songs, people running around with cats on their shoulders, street scenes. He did a lot of urban landscapes, like "Desolation Row," where there's so much going on. What do I make of Bob turning sixty? Because of the youth-cultish nature of our industry - of every industry, basically - I think it is a very positive thing that someone of another generation survives. The obvious wish I have for Bob is his own line: "May you stay forever young." For the creature that creates, it's all child's play. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:03:15 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni on Dylan cont. lyrics to Desolation Row Desolation Row by Bob Dylan They're selling postcards of the hanging They're painting the passports brown The beauty parlor is filled with sailors The circus is in town Here comes the blind commissioner They've got him in a trance One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker The other is in his pants And the riot squad they're restless They need somewhere to go As Lady and I look out tonight From Desolation Row Cinderella, she seems so easy "It takes one to know one," she smiles And puts her hands in her back pockets Bette Davis style And in comes Romeo, he's moaning "You Belong to Me I Believe" And someone says," You're in the wrong place, my friend You better leave" And the only sound that's left After the ambulances go Is Cinderella sweeping up On Desolation Row Now the moon is almost hidden The stars are beginning to hide The fortunetelling lady Has even taken all her things inside All except for Cain and Abel And the hunchback of Notre Dame Everybody is making love Or else expecting rain And the Good Samaritan, he's dressing He's getting ready for the show He's going to the carnival tonight On Desolation Row Now Ophelia, she's 'neath the window For her I feel so afraid On her twenty-second birthday She already is an old maid To her, death is quite romantic She wears an iron vest Her profession's her religion Her sin is her lifelessness And though her eyes are fixed upon Noah's great rainbow She spends her time peeking Into Desolation Row Einstein, disguised as Robin Hood With his memories in a trunk Passed this way an hour ago With his friend, a jealous monk He looked so immaculately frightful As he bummed a cigarette Then he went off sniffing drainpipes And reciting the alphabet Now you would not think to look at him But he was famous long ago For playing the electric violin On Desolation Row Dr. Filth, he keeps his world Inside of a leather cup But all his sexless patients They're trying to blow it up Now his nurse, some local loser She's in charge of the cyanide hole And she also keeps the cards that read "Have Mercy on His Soul" They all play on penny whistles You can hear them blow If you lean your head out far enough From Desolation Row Across the street they've nailed the curtains They're getting ready for the feast The Phantom of the Opera A perfect image of a priest They're spoonfeeding Casanova To get him to feel more assured Then they'll kill him with self-confidence After poisoning him with words And the Phantom's shouting to skinny girls "Get Outa Here If You Don't Know Casanova is just being punished for going To Desolation Row" Now at midnight all the agents And the superhuman crew Come out and round up everyone That knows more than they do Then they bring them to the factory Where the heart-attack machine Is strapped across their shoulders And then the kerosene Is brought down from the castles By insurance men who go Check to see that nobody is escaping To Desolation Row Praise be to Nero's Neptune The Titanic sails at dawn And everybody's shouting "Which Side Are You On?" And Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot Fighting in the captain's tower While calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers Between the windows of the sea Where lovely mermaids flow And nobody has to think too much About Desolation Row Yes, I received your letter yesterday (About the time the door knob broke) When you asked how I was doing Was that some kind of joke? All these people that you mention Yes, I know them, they're quite lame I had to rearrange their faces And give them all another name Right now I can't read too good Don't send me no more letters no Not unless you mail them From Desolation Row I'll agree with Joni, there's a lot going on here. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:31:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: S&L DVD, the %.1 mystery solved - --- Mark Domyancich wrote: > I think Jerry meant to type 5.1, % being the shift > key and 5. A common typo. > 5.1 channel surround sound is supposed to be very > good, but I haven't tried > out any receivers that have that feature. > Thanks for the explanation, but it still means nada to me. I've got a cheap stereo system, a 15-yr old TV and a PC, none of this fancy shmancy expensive stereo stuff, unlike Jerry, who is obviously filthy rich ;) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:41:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: S&L DVD - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > so this is only on dvd, not vhs? > On the CDNow.com site, they have both dvd and vhs - oddly enough, the vhs version is more expensive (?) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:36:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: S&L DVD, the %.1 mystery solved Catherine McKay wrote: > --none of this fancy shmancy expensive stereo > stuff, unlike Jerry, who is obviously filthy rich ;) Yeah, right. A rich librarian! But I do have a very nice system, as it is a priority for me. I review videos and dvds professionally and need a great system to get everything out of them. But 5.1 systems are not as rare as they were when I set mine up 3 years ago. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:17:43 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: Same Situation I think I may have missed some (as usual) of the commentary on this song, but I believe the guy that inspired Joni's "female role self-evaluation" here is ...oh what the heck is his name?... Annette Bennings' husband........... oh yeah, Warren Beatty. Don't know if that can lend any insight or not. I always thought of the Lord on deathrow line meaning "God is dead" till I read someone's (sorry I can't give you credit) thought on the Manson thing. Definitely food for thought. That's what I love about this list. Thanks. Janine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:34:32 -0400 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: J L'H mentioned in Q magazine's greatest album covers issue As an online Joni expert talking about the Hissing of Summer Lawns cover. Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:47:45 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: joni/feminism/Chrissie Hynde and a Blue Heron (VLJC) For the record, I'm with the folks who question the quoting. After all, look at the three statements. "I am absolutely not a feminist." "I prefer the company of men to women, always have. " "And I'm constantly lumped in with women with whom I don't belong." To me these read like very separate thoughts (not like the writer is obligated to use ellipses between the statements). I don't feel comfortable concluding that Joni related the second statement to the first or the third to the second. Who knows what she may have said in between? I haven't read much on Joni and feminism, but I wouldn't conclude that I understand the reasoning for her position (the first statement) based on the two that follow it. Now for a bit of levity... Robert Holliston wrote: > > Chrissie Hynde has been a highly vocal admirer, This is from an interview conducted by and between Chrissie Hynde (CH) and k.d. lang (kdl). CH: What about it? Are you a feminist? kdl: Yes. CH: You are? As of when? kdl: Always. CH: I never thought I was a feminist... kdl: Oh, you're such a fucking feminist. CH: No. kdl: You're kidding yourself! CH: I'm not kidding myself - a feminist once told me I wasn't; but, by definition, I suppose I am. I've never denied or confirmed these allegations. kdl: [laughing] I'm not afraid to say I'm a feminist. CH: OK, I don't care if I say I'm a feminist or not. I'm going to get on stage and play my guitar, and no fucker's going to stop me. So, whether you want to call it feminism or not, I will continue to do my thing. Being in a rock band was not a social statement in terms of male or female; it was a social statement in terms of "leave me the fuck alone." kdl: Well, I don't know what the political definition of feminism is, but to your audiences you were extremely feminist. To have a strong frontwoman who actually played the guitar and didn't take any shit from anyone - that's totally feminist to me. CH: OK, but that came naturally to me. I don't have to smoke a pipe and wear elbow patches to do that. kdl: But you'd look good doing it. Here's the link for anyone interested in reading the rest of it: http://home.macau.ctm.net/~tina71/articles/q.htm Brenda n.p. (or should I say replaying in my head) - This morning's sight of a tremendous blue heron, only a few feet away, swooping up from the tiny pond in the middle of my friend's cement fortress condo complex (in Culver City) with a sizable koi in its beak. It gracefully flew to the top of one of the buildings, swallowed the ten pound (or more) Kohaku on the spot, rested for a minute and flew away, headed back to what's left of the Ballona Wetlands, I suppose. The bird - http://bio.lmu.edu/ballona/animals/ballbird.htm The Wetlands - http://www.ballona-wetlands.org/pages/factsa.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:42:38 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: S&L DVD Vince, I'll bet you a dollar that even the DVD of Shadows and Light isn't letterboxed, nor should it be. I'll explain. For the most part Shadows and Light was shot on video, right? I'm not a video professional but I don't think letterboxing was commonly done with video except as an effect. Especially not then. (Paz?) I don't know if the coyote film was 16mm or 35mm it probably got cropped to the TV rectangle. In this case, it's not a big deal anyway. Wisely, there are no "two shots" of Joni and the far left and the coyote at the far right. No, it was edited (by Joni's direction if my Expert memory serves) to be a Product for the home video market. There was no theatrical intent. With a firm grasp on the obvious, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:55:47 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: Fw: Same Situation - -----Original Message----- From: janine sherman To: IVPAUL42@aol.com Date: Friday, May 25, 2001 8:55 PM Subject: Re: Same Situation >Hi Paul, > I meant I couldn't recall who started that thought on it, so you get every >bit of it !!!!!!!!!!! Interesting concept. I remember reading Helter Skelter >and intermittently throwing it under my bed and cringing while I was reading >it- but I couldn't stop. He did present himself as the Messiah to his >family. He was whatever any of them needed him to be. So scary. I see those >eyes of his when they speak of his parole hearings, and I am back hiding >under the bed. Take care, J >-----Original Message----- >From: IVPAUL42@aol.com >To: sherman@netrax.net >Date: Friday, May 25, 2001 6:19 PM >Subject: Re: Same Situation > > >>In a message dated 5/25/01 5:26:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>sherman@netrax.net writes: >> >><< I always >> thought of the Lord on deathrow line meaning "God is dead" till I read >> someone's (sorry I can't give you credit) thought on the Manson thing. >> >> >>'ll take it anyway. >>;>) >> >>Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:46:08 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: S&L DVD No, > it was edited (by Joni's direction if my Expert memory serves) to be a > Product for the home video market. There was no theatrical intent. Actually it was first aired as either an HBO or Showtime special. I remember watching it - several times - on the tube before I found the VHS at Tower Records lo those many moons ago and of course I just had to have it. So I agree that letterboxing is highly unlikely and unnecessary. But I WANT that dvd! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:37:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: joni/feminism/Chrissie Hynde and a Blue Heron (VLJC) Brenda wrote: > "I am absolutely not a feminist." > "I prefer the company of men to women, always have. " > "And I'm constantly lumped in with women with whom I don't belong." > > To me these read like very separate thoughts (not like the writer is > obligated to use ellipses between the statements). I don't feel > comfortable concluding that Joni related the second statement to the > first or the third to the second. Who knows what she may have said in > between? I haven't read much on Joni and feminism, but I wouldn't > conclude that I understand the reasoning for her position (the first > statement) based on the two that follow it. Good catch, Brenda. Sometimes I just boil when I see such suspect "editing" in print. > Now for a bit of levity... Thanks for sending the excerpt of the Chrissie Hynde/k.d. lang interview - gave me a great LOL and made my day! > n.p. (or should I say replaying in my head) - This morning's sight of a > tremendous blue heron, only a few feet away, swooping up from the tiny > pond in the middle of my friend's cement fortress condo complex (in > Culver City) with a sizable koi in its beak. It gracefully flew to the > top of one of the buildings, swallowed the ten pound (or more) Kohaku on > the spot, rested for a minute and flew away, headed back to what's left > of the Ballona Wetlands, I suppose. And another LOL - at my old condo complex they had a couple of large ponds where several healthy Koi had been peacefully residing for almost 30 years, growing bigger, stronger and more valuable $$$ every year. A new (and very evil) condo board eventually took over and learned that they had a great resale value. There were some who wanted to sell off a few to replenish the HOA reserves, while others were militant that they not be touched. One day the board newsletter reported that all the Koi (around 40) had suddenly disappeared overnight and that it had been concluded that racoons ate them. Yeah right. And most of the residents still believe that one to this day. But I smile at the heron who got his fair and square ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #163 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?