From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #162 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, May 25 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 162 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Huge Question ; long ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: That Damn Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:43:20 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Huge Question ; long Yea Brenda! Finally someone steps up and speaks the truth that she is selling titles and EARNS her shelf space! I feel like I've been too long the lone voice in my opinion that she is commercially viable. (Even though she says publically that she's been coddled out of "respect" for her artistry. I mean, check it out. Did Columbia keep Johnny Cash on the label out of "repect"? They did not. (To be clear, I'm not using this illustration to denegrate Johnny Cash. He was there at Sun Records when Sam Phillips started things rolling, with Roy Orbison, Carl Perkins, and some "pretty boy" from Memphis.... Anyway, Johnny Cash certianly doesn't need me or *any*one to validate him.) Brenda said, >> They are there for sales. Joni has one of best selling pure catalogs in the business. For instance, this week her catalog did cumulative sales of nearly 4,000 units. This week. And there's no marketing campaign going on to get that nor is there a new record out that's being promoted. >> was playing: TV commercial from 19?? The brand new product: lemon scented Pledge for dusting. np: "Is this just vulgar electricity or the edifying fire?" Who else, beside Bob Dylan, would write those last 5 words!!!! It's no wonder Joni's "pushing digits"! Joni is not a charity case. She earns her shelf space. Thank you Brenda! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:01:01 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: That Damn Joni In a very thoughtful post, Kakki wrote (largely in defense of Joni, and please forgive my failure to repeat the entire earlier contexts within which these remarks were addressed): "I don't know MG, it seems she has had this challenge to call herself a feminist thrust in her face for years and maybe she has become exasperated with repeatedly addressing it. I agree her words written on the flat dimension of the page sound more dismissive than what we would expect of her. In many past interviews she has articulated her views on the subject more thoughtfully." I agree with this concept very strongly. First, I have found that one can rarely completely trust what one reads in the press or sees and hears on other media. And even if the quote was both accurate and presented in context, I think it rather obviously means that she does not consider herself - - and would prefer that others not consider her - one who is obsessed with the issue or aligned with the more radical views of the politically visible leaders of the movement. It is human nature that those most obsessed with an issue - and in many cases most fanatical - gravitate to positions of leadership in said areas (wherein they often fail to fairly represent the more moderate views of most others who believe in the basic cause). Moreover, they often misrepresent conditions, abuse statistics (worse than damned lies) and attribute their own radical views to the entire membership. It is ironic that those who are so poorly represented (or misrepresented) so often fail to decry the misrepresentations of the self-acclaimed leadership, but instead lash out at those who would criticize said leaders' misrepresentations. "The best lack conviction, given some time to think, and the worst are full of passion without mercy......... We are all hopelessly oppressed cowards". As for herself, my sense is that she often makes generalizations - some stereotypical in nature - that are by their nature politically incorrect in the current social environment. Inevitable. She is a keenly observant person, whose stock in trade is identifiying things (situations, foibles, virtues, feelings) common to her and us all, and sharing them - even the warts - through her art. That's part of who she is. It is bound occasionally to show up in interviews as well as in her art. If we can't handle the truth, well...... "I have also sometimes cringed when she has appeared to diss other female artists because it just seems mean". Yes. There is a tinge of bitterness (perhaps more than a tinge there) of a type that is unbecoming when it appears in the greats. It is not as though Joni is unrecognized at this point. The majority of the smartest, most gifted and most sensitive artists, critics and fans have recognized her as their "favorite child" (and I do not mean favorite daughter) - she would do best to wear that with a quiet, peaceful pride. (Far better for John Mellenkamp to assert "I do not want to sound mean, but there is only one female artist" than for her to do so). It is not possible to claim both that audience and the broader masses - which would she rather have ? Too many years of being underappreciated may have taken a toll - I trust she will grow out of that (if she has not already). "Then again, some interviewers have wanted her to lump her in with artists like Madonna. Nothing against Madonna, but can you blame her for wanting to dissassociate herself from Madonna's artistic visions? "Case of You" simply doesn't compare to "Like a Virgin" and there's no point trying to lump them together in one big generic female singer songwriter pigeonhole." Come on.... not a real interviewer. "There's the problem. Most people don't objectively think of a generic and innocuous dictionary definition when they hear the term "feminist" or any other label. They see it through their own interpretation and perspective. I can just see Joni calling herself a feminist and then having the various factions of feminism attacking her for not being a "true" feminist.I've always thought of her as a humanist and an individualist. But, as colin pointed out, even calling herself a humanist is fraught with misinterpretation because in England and also in parts of the U.S. it is equated with athiesm. Joni's not an athiest so those who now claim the term "humanist" would probably take her to task for appropriating "their" term." Bravo ! (And the lesson may be 'better to disavow than to avow') "Marcel also made a good point that if she affiliates with a particular label, then the politically active gatekeepers of that label would probably pressure her to be appearing at their events and perhaps taking on certain aspects of their agenda to which she may disagree. What a hassle, really, and I don't think any of us would want to be put in such a position ourselves." I think she already has been so imposed upon, many times, for many causes, some of them wrong (e.g., Hurricane). "I've always maintained that she has done her part in advancing the best and truest aspects of humanism, feminism and liberalism and I don't think she owes anyone more." Hear, Hear, Kakki !! Bob S. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #162 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?