From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #150 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, May 14 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 150 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #149 [Kate ] Re: not a pissing contest ["Laurent Olszer" ] The New Yorker Article [BMGKotler@aol.com] Re: The New Yorker Article [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Joni synth ["c Karma" ] [none] ["c Karma" ] Re: Joni synth [Catherine McKay ] howdy and questions questions questions [neo@mail.utexas.edu (Neil Ellis ] Re: The New Yorker Article ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: The New Yorker Article [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: howdy and questions questions questions [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: howdy and questions questions questions [neo@mail.utexas.edu (Neil El] Re: The New Yorker Article [CHRIS TREACY ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 09:08:06 -0500 From: Kate Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #149 CBros: by abandoning melody on HEJIRA she switched off millions I'm sure. Abandoning melody? Er -- I don't agree. Singable,singable all the way! Kerry: I have that Elm Street issue kicking around here somewhere. When I find it I'll write for your address and send it to you. Also, Mary P. and Ranger Rick, I think my hubby has video-copying capacities again. I haven't forgotten your requests! Kate ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 20:02:49 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: not a pissing contest To: Bob and Wally Sorry but there was no sexual inuendo in my line about the French pissing on Main St. Let's get clear: we see so much nudity on TV + beaches + everywhere in everyday life that it is no big deal to do it in the street if one's got to go. Nobody looks either. I'll give you an example: I went to see a modern ballet at the Paris Opera, now that is a very straight institution. Well I couldn't believe it but there were about 25 fully naked men on stage along with dressed ones because that was in the story. NOBODY thought twice about it, exept a gay friend of mine who joked about missing that ballet. The result of this lack of hypocrisy is that we have much less rape + serial killers than in the US. Of course it happens too, but people who accumulate less frustration have less steam to let go of. Bob don't worry about your daughter spending a semester in Paris. Worse that can happen is she'll go sunbathing topless in the backyard when she gets back home. If you want me to check on her let me know. Back to Joni: I feel I should defend DED which is low on most people's list. Of course we all love "Bluejira". But in my 2 cents opinion, DED had "light Rock" music to help people swallow the hard pill of the MOST CAUSTIC lyrics about the american way of life. I can already see people answering this way is not unique to america. True, the 3 great stimulants are almost universal nowadays but I believe america paved the way. And I haven't seen any TV preachers in any other country. No she also speaks about western world hypocrisy in general. For example one could whistle the very catchy tune Ethiopia even though it has a most poignant theme. I think this light rock music was the only way to accompany the lyrics in DED. One of the things I like about Joni is she always SURPRISES you with her new music. She almost goes too far in delivering the unexpected. I once saw her at a benefit concert in Orange County, CA in the 80's where she opened the show. The headline was Willy Nelson. Well what do you suppose she did: intimate songs on solo piano. Then after 3 songs she complained on the mike that the chat of Willy Nelson fans was covering her music. She then resumed piano and resumed complaining as the noise was still there. No kidding, who would have guessed the audience would have been receptive to solo piano? Same thing at the Amnesty show in NY 86: playing the song Hejira (if my memory is right) because, as she later explained, it had the same tuning as the preceding song, was not the best choice to draw an audience that came for Police and U2. It was funny because at the end of the Orange County show there were a bunch of people standing outside screaming "Joni we love you" as a consolation cheer. But if you want to face the truth Joni asked for the treatment she received from the audience. I'd be curious to hear JMDLers' comments about whether Joni is often or not a little or totally OFF in her performances? Traders: come on I've got serious music for you, 25 years of collecting so send your requests. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 16:12:59 EDT From: BMGKotler@aol.com Subject: The New Yorker Article There's an article in the 5/14 issue of the The New Yorker entitled "Birthday Boy" by David Remnick reviewing a book about Bob Dylan (about to turn 60!, how did that happen?) by David Hajdu. In it the author says that Dylan is responsible for marrying rock and roll to folk music. Okay, I can agree with that. But then he goes on to say, "Without Dylan, the Beatles would likely have stuck to simple R&B; without him, no Neil Young, no Lou Reed, no Joni Mitchell, no Bruce Springsteen, no Clash, no Kurt Cobain." I just can't agree with that...can any of you, do you think Joni, Neil or the others would agree? Maddie at BMGKOTLER@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:12:12 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: The New Yorker Article In a message dated 5/13/01 4:17:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BMGKotler@aol.com writes: << "Without Dylan, the Beatles would likely have stuck to simple R&B; without him, no Neil Young, no Lou Reed, no Joni Mitchell, no Bruce Springsteen, no Clash, no Kurt Cobain." I just can't agree with that...can any of you, do you think Joni, Neil or the others would agree? >> I don't think that is an outlandish statement at all. Dylan broke the doors down. He changed the way songs were written and what they were written about. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 00:19:34 From: "c Karma" Subject: Joni synth Rose was first in with correct response to D.Rowe's synth question. "The Jungle Line" Subsequent posts have claimed her credited as playing "Moog." I thought it was "Arp." Woof, CC _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 00:28:33 From: "c Karma" Subject: [none] I stand self-corrected. It was Moog for "The Jungle Line" and Arp for "Shadows and Light." Lest I get an in-box full of elucidation. Synthetically yours, CC _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:47:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni synth - --- c Karma wrote: > Rose was first in with correct response to D.Rowe's > synth question. "The > Jungle Line" > > Subsequent posts have claimed her credited as > playing "Moog." I thought it > was "Arp." > I just finished transcribing an article for Les (soon to appear on a jmdl site near you) called "No borders here" by Mary Dickie. It's an interview with Joni done shortly after the release of Turbulent Indigo. In it Joni discusses her use of piano, keyboards, synthesizers. Et voila: "For the Roses also has a lot of piano on it. I wrote that in a cabin in B.C. while I was building my house, and I had a piano, and it just seemed my interests went into that instrument at that time, and continued into Court and Spark. And then with The Hissing of Summer Lawns I met my first synthesizer, the Farfisa, and it had some strange little preset sounds on it. Prior to that, with these instruments you had to be kind of a jet pilot; there were all these dials and levers. So that kind of kicked me off in another direction. And even on guitar-oriented albums, the keyboards and the background coloration Im playing, Im using it as orchestration, so Im still a keyboard person. Ive never lost that. Dog Eat Dog was a synthetic keyboard album, but Im playing most of it. People think somebody has smeared all of this over me, but it is me, playing with a wider palette." Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 22:27:53 -0400 (EDT) From: neo@mail.utexas.edu (Neil Ellis Orts) Subject: howdy and questions questions questions Hi eveyone. It's been a few months but I've resubbed again, briefly, because I know this group has all the answers. :) Today, I picked up (and probably paid way too much for) a CD called By the Banks of the River Charles. It was sold as an "import" but upon closer inspection, it's probably just your garden variety bootleg. Does anyone know for sure what I have? There is precious little info on the disc. It says, "recorded live from Club 47 Cambridge MA Jan 1968". In the chatter, Joni announces that she's just signed with Reprise and that they'll soon be releasing her first album, Song to a Seagull. The "label" is "HEAD" and has a small child with earphones on as the logo. anyway, it has songs I never heard before (and even on that I couldn't find on the jm.com list of unrecorded songs - "Vali" - that's not on any album, is it? and would that be spelled correctly? the track listing has "Cactus Free" so I'm not trusting this thing overly much) and the chatter between songs is fun. It's not a very good recording, really, but kinda fun. I just have moral qualms about bootlegs and wonder if I should be sending Joni some royalties. :) In ohter news, I recently purchased the DVD, Painting with WOrds and Music. I'm finally glad I went through the extra expense for a DVD player on my new 'puter. :) And for those who thought I was nuts for not grooving so heavily on Hejira, well, I now join your ranks. I've had it in the CD player all day, on repeat. Really grooving on it now. Some things just take time to grow on you, you know? Any word on the Tribute album? I picked up the new Janet Jackson album in the store just to see if her recording of Beat of Black Wings was on it. I was frustrated that it wasn't and yet strangely relieved that I didn't have to buy a JJ album to hear her cover of a JM song. :) Still, I've been waiting for long enough for this disc. Any news? I haven't missed it have I? And any news on her next symphonic album? I admit, I didn't much care for Both Sides Now (maybe I'll like it more in 10 years. :) but am always interested in what she's doing. I'd just as soon have a new album of original material, but will likely pick up anything she puts out. Sorry to be gone so long and just come back with loads of questions. See how I am? For those who remember me: Hi! Hope you're all well. For those who don't or never knew me from my previous incarnation as a prolific JMDLer (life got busy and hasn't really let up . .. ): Hi! Hope you're all well. Okay, enough typing from me. For now. - -Neil ______________________________________________________________ Neil Ellis Orts Austin, TX 78731 512/372-8082 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Every person has their own vocation. The talent is the call." -Emerson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 22:56:51 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: The New Yorker Article Dylan is turning 60??!! Wasn't it he that said "You can't trust anyone over 30"? yikes! Stephen in Vancouver now in Hamiltton- home of Mags! Yeah! and we met! BMGKotler@aol.com on 05/13/2001 01:12:59 PM Please respond to BMGKotler@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Stephen Epstein/Agmont) Subject: The New Yorker Article There's an article in the 5/14 issue of the The New Yorker entitled "Birthday Boy" by David Remnick reviewing a book about Bob Dylan (about to turn 60!, how did that happen?) by David Hajdu. In it the author says that Dylan is responsible for marrying rock and roll to folk music. Okay, I can agree with that. But then he goes on to say, "Without Dylan, the Beatles would likely have stuck to simple R&B; without him, no Neil Young, no Lou Reed, no Joni Mitchell, no Bruce Springsteen, no Clash, no Kurt Cobain." I just can't agree with that...can any of you, do you think Joni, Neil or the others would agree? Maddie at BMGKOTLER@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 23:29:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The New Yorker Article << I don't think that is an outlandish statement at all. Dylan broke the doors down. He changed the way songs were written and what they were written about. >> Joni's said several times that when she first heard "You've got a lot of nerve, to say that I'm your friend" she realized that the sky was the limit as far as subject matter & lyrics were concerned. Still, I think she would have wandered along the same path and ended up where she did without him...that talent and her search for truth & beauty was already instilled in her from the start. Bob NP: Tom Rush, "Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 23:40:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: howdy and questions questions questions << Today, I picked up (and probably paid way too much for) a CD called By the Banks of the River Charles. It was sold as an "import" but upon closer inspection, it's probably just your garden variety bootleg.>> Welcome back, Neil!! And yes, if you paid more than about $5 for it you paid too much. Many of us, myself included, can make that CD for you for a blank and an SASE. << Does anyone know for sure what I have? >> The date(s) are questionable, but is probably somewhere in the first half of January '68. It may actually be a combination of 2 or more shows, although the sound quality of what I have is pretty consistent. Here is the songlist that is on my copy: Cactus Tree Night In The City The Gift of the Magi I Had A King Morning Morgantown Ballerina Valerie (not "Vali") Song to a Seagull Both Sides Now Conversation Come to the Sunshine Chelsea Morning The Pirates of Penance The Way It Is The Dawntreader <> I enjoyed her introducing "The Way It Is" and talking about her appearance on the TV show of the same name. This was interesting after having seen the show on the video tree! I didn't care for the song at first, but I must say I've changed my mind about it...it's another Joni gem! << Any word on the Tribute album? I haven't missed it have I? >> Nope...no news on it's release, Neil. We're all waiting. BUT we have complied a lot of tribute CD's on our own, check out "Joni Undercover" at JMDL.com to get caught up, and let me know if you're interested in copies... <> No news on that one either - so maybe you haven't missed much in your absence! ;~) Bob NP: Neil Diamond, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 00:14:56 -0400 (EDT) From: neo@mail.utexas.edu (Neil Ellis Orts) Subject: Re: howdy and questions questions questions At 11:40 PM 5/13/2001 EDT, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >Welcome back, Neil!! And yes, if you paid more than about $5 for it you paid >too much. Many of us, myself included, can make that CD for you for a blank >and an SASE. Of course . . . the buyer didn't beware . . . *sigh* oh well, it's only money . . . > Here is the songlist >that is on my copy: snip looks like the same songs, different order. On mine: Night in the City Gift of the Magi I Had a King Morning Morgantown Vali Song to a Seagull Both Sides Now Cactus Free (sic) Conversation Come to the Sunshine Chelsea Morning Pirate of Penance The Way it Is Dawn Treader ><< Any word on the Tribute album? I haven't missed it have I? >> > >Nope...no news on it's release, Neil. We're all waiting. BUT we have complied >a lot of tribute CD's on our own, check out "Joni Undercover" at JMDL.com to >get caught up, and let me know if you're interested in copies... Will do. (There have been more JMDL tributes since the one from, oh, three, four years ago? Are more planned?) > <> > >No news on that one either - so maybe you haven't missed much in your >absence! ;~) huh. Well, surely you've all been talking about *me*, right? LOL >NP: Neil Diamond, "Both Sides Now" That reminds me -- and I've said this before -- but it was Neil Diamond recording BSN, Chelsea Morning, Free Man in Paris . . . seems like he may have done another . . . anyway, I was in a big Diamond phase in my high school years and I kept seeing this name, "Joni Mitchell," on his albums. THought I'd check out an album or two of her's . . . . - -Neil ______________________________________________________________ Neil Ellis Orts Austin, TX 78731 512/372-8082 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Every person has their own vocation. The talent is the call." -Emerson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:45:39 -0700 (PDT) From: CHRIS TREACY Subject: Re: The New Yorker Article Paul wrote : "Dylan broke the doors > down. He changed the way songs were written and what > they were written about." And, much as I'm not too much of a Dylan fan, I have to agree with Paul on this. Much as the statement in the Times article SEEMS outrageous to us on one level, because of our devotion to Joni, one must give credit where credit is due. Furthermore, Joni herself credits Dylan - citing a shift in writing style coinciding with his 'going electric' - as suddenly making it acceptable to write about anything, paving the way for a whole new wave of interpersonal discourse in songwriting. She's said it a million times. - -Chris ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #150 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?