From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #149 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, May 13 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 149 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The top 10 Joni songs... and TTT (long) [Kobus Louwrens ] Re: Chiming in again [Kobus Louwrens ] Best 2 made-up CD's - JONI GOLD ["Clive Brothers" ] Re: Best 2 made-up CD's - JONI GOLD [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: Chiming in again [Don Rowe ] Re: Hissed Off (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #148 [Kate ] Re: Hissed Off [Merk54@aol.com] joni at newport? [mags ] Re: Hissed Off [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Hissed Off [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #215 -- First Synth Song [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Chiming in again ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] picky,picky,picky -sjc [Randy Remote ] Re: sophomore jive (or piss poor humor ?) [Bobsart48@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:19:07 +0200 From: Kobus Louwrens Subject: Re: The top 10 Joni songs... and TTT (long) jan Lumbold wrote: ><< On the subject of which period of Joni's career is the best, I would say >she > has different age groups of fans getting into different phases of her > career, all of them equally important. >> .... and I jump to the defence of TTT, which took ages to grow on me, but is quickly becoming a favourite. aside: Hejira is my nr. 1 favourite as well: neither the songwriting or the satisfying coherence as an album can be beat. (My definition of a good album is one that flows like a collection of poems: not necessarily all on the same theme or subject, but coherent enough to make statement (or create a feeling/impression) that is larger than the sum of the parts. Those kinds of albums that you don't feel tempted to hit the CD player's random button because it flows so beautifully are becoming scarcer and scarcer as the CD format is increasingly turn 'albums' into collections of individual songs. Most new CD's these days seem to me lik compilations of new songs these days instead of like coherent works of art: anyway---- back to TTT: I listened to it the other day on a sunny autumn morning (the season down here in South Africa) with golden trees outside the window... and it just struck me how perfectly it holds together as a 'middle-aged' album. The music, the cover paintings: those greens and golden browns and yellows. and the music so amazingly subtle: it seems the emotional range is much narrower than on most other albums, but there are so many emotional colours inside that narrow band much like Hejira, actually (I managed to tune out the lyrics to Lead Balloon and No Apologies - major stumbling blocks to my enjoyment of this album - and the textures on those songs got me too.) I wonder how it will sound when I'm pushing 60? (I'm 30 now) It is not a perfect album like Hejira, but I think it is up there with her best. Kobus Louwrens ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 08:43:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Chiming in again Okay. So what did she us on Shadows and Light? Sound slike a synth to me. Can't be bothered ghoing to find the cover! Don Rowe wrote: > --- catman wrote: > > The Jundle Line? > > Yep! Album liner notes credit Joni on "Moog", one of > the at the time "newest" and certainly "truly" > synthesizers. Probably responsible for that > Da-Yoo-EEE-Yoop sound in back of the Burundi drummers. > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i 940,864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:50:40 +0200 From: Kobus Louwrens Subject: Re: Chiming in again Don Rowe wrote: >No offense, but instead of saying "are all 85% awful", >I at least, think you should say what you really mean: >"Use synthesizers." I find it really hard to get into the eighties albums and I like electronic music a lot (I shouldn't say this too loudly here, but Bjork is a favourite of mine.) Even 80's synthesizers. I just don't think Joni, Dolby et al used them very effectively or tastefully on her albums. They sound clunky and corny and add an incongruous layer to the music that is just distracting, I think. If joni ever got as comfortable around the synths as Kate Bush did the results could have been amazing. Kobus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:47:40 -0000 From: "Clive Brothers" Subject: Best 2 made-up CD's - JONI GOLD I can't stand being silent any longer.I need to put the other point of view:I far prefer Joni when she's not trying to sing jazz or a jazz-related genre.I love folk/pop/rock and regret that she has totally abandoned this style of singing and playing.It doesn't surprise me at all that her most successful commercial period in the early 70's dried up with the issue of Hejira.HOSL is an outstanding album,but I agree with many other JMDLers that it takes a while to get into a lot of the tracks.Joni made it hard for her original fan base to follow her and by abandoning melody on HEJIRA she switched off millions I'm sure. I am saddened by the very low ranking given to Chelsea Morning on the poll vote.It's such a beautiful,cheerful,simple song with so much hope for the future.Hilary Clinton may have dreadful taste in men,but her musical taste is spot on. So for anyone else who likes great melody as well as incomparable lyrics, for those who like me live ,die and breathe Joni Mitchell and bore all friends and family rigid with my obsession ......yes,it is possible to be like that and still proclaim a dislike of most jazz and still love Joni.Sorry if that upsets most people on the list,but I feel it's important to put the other point of view from time to time. Here are my homemade CD's which I have given to many non-Joni music lovers and many have been amazed by by the depth and richness of her music: CD1 Chelsea Morning BYT Carey California Woman of Heart and Mind River For Free Circle Game(live) Rainy Night House The Last Time I Saw Richard All I Want A Case Of You Morning Morningtown In France They Kiss on Main Street Edith and the Kingpin Court and Spark Free Man in Paris Car on a Hill Woodstock(live) CD2 Harry's House Impossible Dreamer Sex Kills The Reoccurring Dream BSN Shadows and Light Lakota Little Green The Arrangement Woodstock - Matthews Southern Comfort Wild Things Fast Underneath the Streetlight Love Help Me Chinese Cafe BSN - Judy Collins Urge For Going If Joni were willing to play some of these songs on guitar/piano unplugged it would show her true brilliance to a much wider audience.What a shame it can never happen now that her voice has changed so much. CBros NPCorrs-Talk on Corners _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 08:15:52 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Shameless begging for an Elm Street Hi all, I wrote to the Elm Street magazine people and they've run out of Joni back issues! I would reeeaaaaalllllllyyyyy like one since I'm supposedly IN one of the pictures. If anyone has an extra copy lying around, I would reeeaaalllyyyy appreciate if you could possibly, maybe, hopefully send it to me. I'll pay you for it!!!! Thanks, you wonderful people, (Is the guilt working yet?) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:38:23 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Best 2 made-up CD's - JONI GOLD Hmmmm.... what can I say, i agree totally, and this 2 CD set selection is almost perfect, because I've made tapes of Joni "mellow" and "upbeat" and the endless stream of great songs amazes me, but alas, much of it is from her 70s period, with the exception of Two Grey Rooms (the best, in my opinion), a maybe a few cuts from TI. As much as I've grown to love Heijera, it's not melodic, and could have turned off a large portion of those who loved Court & Spark... Amelia is just brilliant, and we all know that the more you listen, the more every Joni song grows and makes sense...perhaps only those of us who stay open minded and stick around ultimately reap the benefits of Joni's artistry, and the rest simply missed out on all the fun.. My two cents in terms of a perfect Joni "mellow" CD Urge for Going Two Grey Rooms Little Green WOman of Heart and Mind River People's Parties Down to You Amelia For Free Marcie Turbulent Indigo Ladies of The Canyon I could go on, but, in short, this is heaven! M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 06:43:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Chiming in again - --- catman wrote: > Okay. So what did she us on Shadows and Light? Sound > slike a synth to > me. Can't be bothered ghoing to find the cover! You're right. It's an Arp (probably Odesssey) with Farfeza organ. TJL uses a Moog earlier on though ... making it the first 'official' synth credit that I can find. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:23:59 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Hissed Off (md) I seem to recall there were more songs done off The Hissing album than any other at the Pazfest in New Orleans. The songs seemed to work especially well for Jazz interpretation. md ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:43:03 -0500 From: Kate Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #148 onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > > onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, May 12 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 148 > > The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be > found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, > a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. > > The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains > interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. > > Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: > http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm > > The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > First entry ["Laurent Olszer" ] > RE: First entry ["Wally Kairuz" ] > Going to California [Jodcrazee@aol.com] > All hail to Yael!! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] > TTT ["J.David Sapp" ] > Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #212 -- LK influence [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] > Re: First entry [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] > Re: Confessions and Joni's Best Albums [Don Rowe ] > re: Border Crossings article/LK influence ["c Karma" ] > California ["William Waddell" ] > Chiming in again [farneddy@mindspring.com] ____Frederick: > I am very sorry if this offends, but what the hell happened to Joni in the 80's? WTRF, DED and CMIARS are all 85% awful. I do think it's a matter of taste. A simple case of "do I sing along when I listen to this, or don't I?" For me, if I am singing along without even thinking about it, I am won over. I don't understand people's dislike of WTRF, for instance -- it's so singable! -- unless people just don't like jazz or something. Or -- once again, it all comes down to personal taste. There are songs I love on DED and on CMIARS, too - -- songs that touch me where my singing starts, what can I say? Some songs bore the shit out of me -- Paprika Plains, for instance, just gets on my nerves for the most part -- but maybe that's because I'm a person who likes singable songs, not because the song itself is lacking in whatever it takes to be a good song -- For although the words to Joni's songs often articulate my own sensibilities better than I can articulate them myself -- she is the Anais Nin of song -- I am a person who usually hears melody and harmony before actual words. Luckily Joni's lyrics are easy to hear and they are so perfectly blended with her arrangement (of everything!) that her songs hit right in the heart but they don't skip on past the head either. SShe is incredible, I say, incredible! And how can she not know it? Of course she knows it, and she isn't falsely modest. I suggest that if it were a man saying some of the things about his own work that Joni says about hers, no one would even blink and the word 'arrogant' would not even come up. Thank God for us that Joni has a good strong sense of self and the guts to put that out there in her music. Kate of the North w > > > > > ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:39:25 EDT From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Hissed Off Cindy, All I can tell you about my reaction to HOSL is that I, too, once felt exactly the same way. When I first started listening to HOSL, The Jungle Line was the only song I could relate to. I went years letting this album gather dust in my collection - and that has never happened with a Joni album, before or since (well maybe WTRF). I just couldn't get into it. Then I got a new room mate who happened to be a huge Joni fan (how's that for room mate heaven), but guess what his favorite Joni album was - HOSL. Everytime he put it on I would groan. "With so many great Joni albums, why must you play that one?" I would ask. And he would just smile a devilish grin, and turn the volume up. Then one day while he was playing it, I caught myself signing along - "Sometimes Chickie had the car, or Ron had the car, or Lead Foot Melvin, with his hot-wire head", and instead of complaining about his choice, I turned up the volume. Song after song poured out of the stereo, and it was like I hearing them for the first time. It was like the clouds parted, and the light shone through. I can't really explain it. So Cindy, my recommendation would be to keep playing it. Hopefully, one day the clouds will part for you as well, and you'll be able to share in the joy of one of Joni's more mysterious masterpieces. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:08:00 -0500 From: mags Subject: joni at newport? Brian is sitting here reading a book we just acquired ... Singing Lessons by Judy Collins...and in it (loosely quoting from the book here) she talks about how she convinced the board of the Newport Festival to have an afternoon concert that turned out to be historic - Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Janis Ian, David Blue, Mike Settle, Tom Paxton, Eric Andersen, all together on the stage at Newport. our question to the list is: are there any recordings out there of this? Does anyone even know about this concert? from the dates mentioned, the assumption is that it is circa 1966.... any information would be greatly appreciated & yea, we'd like to get our hands on a recording if it is available. thanks! Mags and Bri np: Ducky Kisses - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:07:52 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hissed Off In a message dated 5/12/01 12:47:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Merk54@aol.com writes: > All I can tell you about my reaction to HOSL is that I, too, once felt > exactly the same way. When I first started listening to HOSL, The Jungle > Line was the only song I could relate to. I went years letting this album > When I first listened to HOSL life found me going through a divorce and having a small baby girl to raise. I moved back home with my folks. They had a built in swimming pool in the backyard. The houses Joni depicts on the album cover remind me of that old neighborhood. I could definitely feel the imagery Joni painted. I use to drift asleep floating on a raft with yes the lawn sprinklers going in the neighbors back yard. Rose in NJ NP: Night Ride Home rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:21:15 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hissed Off In a message dated 5/12/01 1:16:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RoseMJoy@aol.com writes: > The houses Joni depicts on the > Oh I forgot to mention, the house on the right on the album cover. That's my house! Weird, eh? My bedroom window is the on the left. Happy childhood memories :~) well, mostly. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:15:41 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #215 -- First Synth Song (to Don Rowe's question) The first song to use a synth arrangement was: The Jungle Line. Right? Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 15:32:13 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Chiming in again Okay, I'm gonna guess instead of compulsively pour over liner notes! I'll go with "The Jungle Line", although it might seem too late. If I remember correctly, this track employed ("employed! took as slave labor!") a Moog synthesizer, which is arguably the first artistically used synth. Track 2 of side one of The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, as I remember my 70s history...... :P Don asked, > Am I the only one who knows which was the > first Joni song to employ a "true" synth > in the arrangement? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:59:38 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: picky,picky,picky -sjc Don Rowe wrote: > Yep! Album liner notes credit Joni on "Moog", one of > the at the time "newest" and certainly "truly" > synthesizers. Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > If I remember > correctly, this track employed ("employed! took as slave labor!") a Moog > synthesizer, which is arguably the first artistically used synth. The Moog was hardly new in '75 when Hissing came out. Among it's first uses in pop music was 6 years before on "Abbey Road" ("Maxell's Silver Hammer", "Here Comes The Sun"). Walter Carlos' "Switched on Bach" was wildly successful a year or two before that. The Moody Blues, Yes, Pink Floyd, King Crimson etc. had been using them for quite some time. "Dark Side of the Moon" and "Close to the Edge" were released in '73. MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > If Im not mistaken John Hartford was the guy who replaced the fabulous Dave > Guard one of the original founding members of the Kingston Trio You are referring, I think, to John Stewart. Too bad about John Hartford, a fine and original songwriter. Rusty10113@aol.com wrote: > As much as I've grown to love Heijera, it's not melodic, and could have > Clive Brothers wrote: > .Joni made it hard for her > original fan base to follow her and by abandoning melody on HEJIRA she > switched off millions I'm sure. > Blue Motel Room is not melodic? Black Crow is not melodic? Song For Sharon and Strange Boy are not melodic? Hejira? Refuge? Someone get my smelling salts..... Kate Bennett wrote: > Didn't Kate Wolf write a song called California? "Red Tailed Hawk", with the tag line "In the golden rollin' hills of California" is a hauntingly beautiful song, and probably Kate's best known track. It was written by George Schroder. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 01:13:26 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: sophomore jive (or piss poor humor ?) ON Fri, 11 May 2001 10:39:37 +0100 "Laurent Olszer" wrote Subject: First entry PS: In France they do shave their armpits. However, In France they Piss on Main Street, I see it everyday. and wallyK replied ''in france they piss on main street watersports, mamma not cheap display!'' Now I remember - a famous line, from a famous song, from a famous album ("Pissing on Summer Lawns") - Help Me !........I know I'm in trouble again - ;-) But wasn't there a French word in that line - ah yes '"jeux nautiques, mama". Laurent - my daughter Leah is in Paris studying for the semester. I hope she does bring back any bad habits. Come to think of it, Joni visited Paris, and look what she wrote about later in "Talk to Me". Now I am starting to worry. ;-) From one newcomer to another - (hope we don't get dunked for this). Bob S ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #149 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?