From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #133 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, April 27 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 133 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks [Mitch327@aol.com] Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: the album form ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks [Les Irvin ] RE: Ella sings Coyote [Catherine McKay ] Re: the album form [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks [Alison E ] RE: Ella sings Coyote [jan gyn ] Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni cite in the National Enquirer [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni cite in the National Enquirer [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni cite in the National Enquirer [Don Rowe ] Re: Rare on Air Volume 2 (?) [Alison E ] free tix to Harry Smith Project for Angelenos [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: the album form [Alison E ] Re: Rare on Air Volume 2 (?) ["Kakki" ] Joni miscarriage ["janine sherman" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #185 [Doug Brode ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #193 [Doug Brode ] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #185 [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Quadrophonic Joni [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] Re: Ella sings Coyote ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Ella sings Coyote ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni miscarriage [Randy Remote ] RE: Ella sings Coyote ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:48:06 EDT From: Mitch327@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks Lama, Decisions, decisions......"Barangrill", "For The Roses", wait maybe I made a mistake. I also saw the "Rolling Thunder Review Night Of The Hurricane" show at Madison Square Garden in NYC in 1975 with a guest appearance by Joni. I give up! Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 07:40:32 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks That is a difficult one. Personally, i don't think you could match those two albums up for a prize. They are completely both different artists, eventhough many would place them together because they are "singer-songwriters". But that is like trying to find a better album of Ornette Coleman and/or Captain Beefheart. Both albums are masterpieces. They both have strong attitudes and have great imagery and are emotionally backed by great immeasurable songwriting. So, it is up to everyone elese. Blair Night Thief of the Guatamalan Lamp Industry Now Playing, "Take your hand out of my pocket" Van the Man >From: Mitch327@aol.com >Reply-To: Mitch327@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:05:34 EDT > >All, > >Hey no one ever responded to my post about "Blue" versus 'Blood On The >Tracks" as best all-time album. I'm a new list member, I thought you guys >would indulge me. All right, unless I hear otherwise "Blood On The Tracks" >wins (this should elicit some responses). > >Mitch > >NP (Now playing?) - Kelly Joe Phelps "Lead Me On" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:38:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks I'll play, too. The White Album For the Roses Tapestry Living (Judy Collins) in that order. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:03:41 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: the album form Hell wrote: > I totally, and unreservedly disagree with you > here. OK, but look on the bright side. At least it tempted you back to the list. Welcome back. > Most of Joni's work has been non-single in orientation, That's wrong, most of Joni's songs are single pieces of music of 3 to 5 minutes in duration. For technical and financial reasons they are packaged in the form of albums. Refuge Of The Roads stands up for me as one the best songs I've ever heard regardless of whether it's packaged with songs of a similar theme or not. > > And I wouldn't call Dido a "mediocrity Dido music is soulless nonsense. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Rare on Air Volume 2 (?) I continue to be amazed by the selection on Sonicnet. Just played: Joni, Just Like This Train from an album I've never heard of: "Rare on Air Volume 2." Here's my link, for anyone who wants some nice listening: http://radio.sonicnet.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=lrfye (Feel free to gripe at me about the oddball things you'll hear from time to time.) Lori in DC ~ Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:16:34 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks (md) I see another "best album" thread has sprouted. What i notice about these threads is that they seem to start in about the same place (ie Blood on the Tracks vs Blue) and end up with very diverse lists such as 5) Dave Brubek live 4) BJork "A Force of nature" 3) Sound Textures of industrial drills 2) Kwasi Mfune narrates "The caucus lives" 1) Bjorn Bjorneson and the Sweedish Rhythm Kings So I'd like to pose an ancillary question: What makes the albums you think are the greatest the greatest for you?? Is it production, the flow, the creativity the memories or what. i ask this because there are so many ways that music can make one experience joy but just by knowing the albums themselves leaves the interpretation open to question or vice versa. Same with any from of art. Sometimes even on my own such list i have several different reasons for each album i might nominate. So if the posters could add why they chose the ones they chose it would be interesting to add that. So what are my favorites...why the ones I listed above of course. Seriously For now Ill only address the original question. I think Blue is better than Blood' simply because i dont think Blood is even Dylans best album. Bringing it all back Home is my fave Dylan album. Its all right ma, Mr.Tambourine Man, Love Minus Zero no limit, Maggies Farm, Subterranean Homesick Blues with its off the charts lyrics, good grief that album has more legs than the New York Rockettes. It also has one of the most intriguing album covers ever created one that can be looked at for hours and always find new things in the picture and meanings which Blood' doesnt have. I also like the flavor of it. It sounds like Dylan actually sounded when he was young and mostly a folk singer. It was an historic album at the time. It basically blasted the doors off the "Lyrics must rhyme"school. All that together places it ahead of Bobs Blood' album which i also love dearly but its more slick and "produced". Blue on the other hand was the album that shot Joni way out ahead of the pack not just of other Female singers and writers but the whole enchilada of artists. It made her a peer with anyone. She does some of her absolute best singing on the album and i could mention a number of aspects of the songs on this album that was the genesis of almost everything she did after that. An example being the Dulcimer ending to All I Want which i think could have been the first sign of her wanting to do jazz and play the VG-8. So we all know the quality of the songwriting is a max but I love the fact that the album is so sparse. The depression from her romances infuses an inflection into her vocals that have always left me breathless and between Carey and River i want to cry. Although Blue isnt my favorite Joni Album of the two I say the Blues have it. Ducking for cover. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:38:58 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: the album form > > Most of Joni's work has been non-single in orientation, > > That's wrong, most of Joni's songs are single pieces of music of 3 to 5 > minutes in duration. For technical and financial reasons they are > packaged in the form of albums. That's not wrong at all. We're talking about art here, and technical and financial reasons have nothing to do with art even though they are necessary for the distribution of said art. Creating an album is a really involved process and is a work of art in itself. Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:33:44 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks At 07:05 PM 4/25/2001, Mitch wrote: >Hey no one ever responded to my post about "Blue" versus 'Blood On The >Tracks" as best all-time album. I'm a new list member, I thought you guys >would indulge me. All right, unless I hear otherwise "Blood On The Tracks" >wins I agree Mitch... Blood on the Tracks wins this match. However, it you put the Bobster's album up against "Hejira" - it's a draw :-) Les NP: The Bathers "Trocadero Girls" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Ella sings Coyote - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > doug! that's so true! why is it that opera singers > sound so ridiculous when > they try pop and that big jazz names can't do pop > and that nobody can do pop > except pop singers? what's with pop that's so > elusive anyway??????? > wallyK, sooner a crossdresser than a crossover The reverse is also true. How many pop singers can sing jazz, or opera? Does anyone but me cringe when they hear Pavarotti dueting with *anyone* popular? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:24:09 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: the album form <> Philip, Joni has NEVER been a "singles" artist, driven by the considerations you describe. You mentioned Motown earlier, and those *were* singles artists, who'd cut a "hit" and then produce some extra baggage to put out an album. Even then, there were some real gems on some of those albums - check out Stevie Wonder's "God Bless the Child"...but I digress. Joni has always worked in terms of stylistic projects, not producing albums that were collections of unrelated songs. She even subtitled her first record to reinforce the thematic nature of it. Why wasn't her first record a collection of her best-known songs? That would have been the norm of the times, but Joni has always been outside the norm. Clouds and LOTC were more "song collections" than album projects, but I would say that from Blue forward, she worked in terms of "projects" and not singles. Of course, the record company released singles, because they wanted to catch every market they could, but to hear Joni tell it she was never about 'technical and financial' considerations, she was just corralled into those restraints by the business of the times. I would also submit that Joni is not concerned with song length. If she can tell her tale in 3 to 5 minutes, fine, but if she requires a larger canvas, she doesn't hesitate to use it. Bob NP: Joni, "Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:26:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks along these lines (and i know you are probably sick of hearing me spout ani difranco-related stuff, but i'm on a kick lately and this has JONI CONTENT!) while scanning napster for joni songs, i came across a track titled "joni mitchell, bob dylan and ani difranco". well, of course thinking this was going to be some fantastic unknown live performance by the three of them, i downloaded it. it is rather, a mini-speech by ani about joni's influence on her and the way society reacts to bob vs. joni and their artistic contributions, etc. ani is putting her guitar into an alternate tuning, and brings up joni. she mentions having seen joni play live, and having watched her while she tuned her guitar. i don't know where this was recorded, but it was obviously out of the U.S. here is nearly all of it: (bear in mind, i only transcribed this, she tends to ramble a bit! it's one big run-on sentence!) "i spent last august with mr. 'roberty bob' dylan, i was touring, opening shows for him, and ever since then i've been, uh, all these interviewers keep asking me, 'what was it like touring with GOD?' and 'what words of wisdom did he bestow upon you?' and 'oh, you have that glow, i can tell you've been with him!' and you know there's all this, there's this kind of like religion of hyperbole that surrounds Bob...and you know, long live the church of bob, uh you know, i would never, uh, attempt heresy in that area, especially not in my line of work, but um...it's funny because Bob was never really, he was never really a deity for me, anywhere near the way, the scope in which joni mitchell was [applause], and i, you know, i think that respecting his work and respecting him is a good idea, and i think he's done quite a few cool things, but um, its' funny to me how, it seems like where i come from, in the states, the cannon of bob seems to become deeper and richer and more ingrained in my culture every day, and Joni seems to be systematically forgotten, and periodically condescended to by the media in the states...it's really strange to me [snip], i dont' know, i think there's something really elusive about the sort of liberal, open, inclusive, revolutionary, you know, folk-singing, change-the-world, sixties scene that wasn't quite ready for a 'babe' ... to listen to people talk these days it seems like all these voices have come down to one in our collective memory...so anyway, i'd just like to put my vote in for Joni while i'm struggling with this tuning [laughs]." alison e. in nyc, who wouldn't put blue or blood on the tracks in her top five, but does belong to the church of hejira. np: come in from the cold - --- Blair Fraipont wrote: > That is a difficult one. > Blair > > >From: Mitch327@aol.com> > > >Hey no one ever responded to my post about "Blue" > versus 'Blood On The > >Tracks" as best all-time album. > >Mitch Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:45:51 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: RE: Ella sings Coyote At 12:52 PM 4/26/01 -0400, Catherine McKay wrote: (snip) >The reverse is also true. How many pop singers can >sing jazz, or opera? Does anyone but me cringe when >they hear Pavarotti dueting with *anyone* popular? I remember reading of a small controversy when a version of 'West Side Story' was released in the mid 80s with Kiri Te Kanawa singing the 'Maria' role. Some felt the role more believable if sung plainly, i.e., without operatic technique. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:55:25 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" wrote: > I'll play, too. > > The White Album > For the Roses > Tapestry > Living (Judy Collins) > > in that order. > > Jerry I'd go: Sgt. Peppers Bookends Saturday Night Fever Blue Joshua Tree ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Blue versus Blood On The Tracks Like Marcel, I'm a little confused as to the purposes of the comparison in the first place. Yes I have, admire and deeply enjoy both of these albums. But to pit one against the other in a "which is the better album?" sort of way strikes me foolish. It's like arguing which is the better automobile, a Forumla 1 racecar or a NASCAR racecar ... the fact that both have 4 tires is pretty much where any meaningful comparison ends (and even the tires themselves aren't the same!) In the end, all you could really determine is whether you're a Formula 1 or NASCAR racing fan. So I think it is between BOTT and "Blue" ... and my presence on this list establishes who I'm a fan of (and no, not JUST Larry Klein)! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:42:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni cite in the National Enquirer Well if Joni's name is going to show up in the Enquirer ... this definitely seems the way to go! ;-) So pony up Rev ... what REALLY caught your interest in this issue ... this enquiring mind wants to know! ;-) And don't give me this, "Well I'm a fan of Ally McBeal, and I knew Robert Downey was on the show, and that he had sung a Joni song on an episode, so I was hoping they'd mention that he'd sung a Joni song ..." cause I ain't buying it! You were wondering if Suzanne Sommer's latest diet really was killing her ... weren't you? Weren't you? Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:42:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni cite in the National Enquirer Well if Joni's name is going to show up in the Enquirer ... this definitely seems the way to go! ;-) So pony up Rev ... what REALLY caught your interest in this issue ... this enquiring mind wants to know! ;-) And don't give me this, "Well I'm a fan of Ally McBeal, and I knew Robert Downey was on the show, and that he had sung a Joni song on an episode, so I was hoping they'd mention that he'd sung a Joni song ..." cause I ain't buying it! You were wondering if Suzanne Sommer's latest diet really was killing her ... weren't you? Weren't you? Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:47:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni cite in the National Enquirer Well if Joni's going to make the National Enquirer ... this is the best way to go! But now you're going to have to pony up some, Rev. What was it that REALLY peaked your interest in this issue? And don't try any of this "Well I'm a fan of Ally McBeal, and I knew Robert Downey was on the show, and that he sang a Joni song on an episode, so I'd take a peek and see if they mentioned it .." -- cause I ain't buying it! You wanted to know for sure whether or not Suzanne Sommers' latest diet is killing her. Didn't you? Well didn't you??? ;-) Don Rowe (apologizing if this is double-posted) ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:34:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Rare on Air Volume 2 (?) hey lori, rare on air info can be found here... http://www.kcrw.com/music/rare/raremain.html its a collection of live performances from all kinds of artists (including joni, of course) in the KCRW studios. we used to have the cd's at the old station i dj'ed for. its in LA, by the way, and i'm sure that Kakki has lots more info on the station. it seems like a good one. alison e. in nyc - --- "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > I continue to be amazed by the selection on > Sonicnet. Just played: Joni, Just Like This Train > from an album I've never heard of: "Rare on Air > Volume 2." > > Here's my link, for anyone who wants some nice > listening: > http://radio.sonicnet.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=lrfye > > (Feel free to gripe at me about the oddball things > you'll hear from time to time.) > > Lori > in DC > ~ > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:39:01 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: free tix to Harry Smith Project for Angelenos Sorry for the short notice, but a friend of mine has 3 tickets available for tonight's (Thursday) performance of the Harry Smith Project at UCLA which includes a star studded collection of folk singers (sorry, the Joan will not be there because everyone on this list knows she is no longer and should not be considered a folk singer, but as someone who came out of the folk movement). If you'd like a ticket, call Raven at 310-392-0689 and tell her I sent you. - - Clark NP: Pet Shop Boys, Somewhere ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:44:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: the album form - --- philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > That's wrong, most of Joni's songs are single > pieces of music of 3 to 5 > minutes in duration. several others have refuted this statement well, so i won't bother. suffice it to say, it's um, WRONG??? > Dido music is soulless nonsense. > Philip as someone who owns her album and was overwhelmingly posessed by the song "thank you", i will say that Dido is certainly NOT SOULLESS NONSENSE! that is your opinion, you should state it as such rather than being flame-rific. Dido's album "no angel" is probably not the best new album i've purchased lately, but it is good, and i do like it. alison e. in nyc Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:41:36 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Rare on Air Volume 2 (?) Hi Alison and Lori, I think I have that CD around here somewhere (bought a KCRW membership one time and got a pick of 4 CDs in return). Ken Corral who used to be on the list really promoted KCRW to us, especially since Joni has given them a number of great interviews and live in-studio performances over the years. I was hooked on it for awhile because it seemed one of the only places in LA radio to hear good music, but they've changed program hosts and formats in recent years and they are just not as interesting to me anymore. Lots of NPR commentary filler (which is great but not in large doses ) and not enough music, IMO. Kakki > hey lori, rare on air info can be found here... > > http://www.kcrw.com/music/rare/raremain.html > > its a collection of live performances from all kinds > of artists (including joni, of course) in the KCRW > studios. we used to have the cd's at the old station i > dj'ed for. its in LA, by the way, and i'm sure that > Kakki has lots more info on the station. it seems like > a good one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:00:03 -0400 From: "janine sherman" Subject: Joni miscarriage I have been reading articles lately on the jmdl.com webpage and came = across this article. Did any list members know Joni had a miscarriage in 1990? Poor baby. I = don't mean to bring bad news up for laundering, I just feel sad for her = and can understand even more of her melancholy. Janine http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/961208tm.cfm [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of The Mail, December 8, 1996.url] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:34:42 -0400 From: Doug Brode Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #185 Greetings, Did Joni ever have a fling with Leonard Cohen? Somewhere I've heard that Lenny's song "Suzanne" was really about Joni? And I also heard that Joni's "Rainy Night House" was about Lenny. Did Leonard come from a very wealthy family? What do you think? Cheers Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:44:30 -0400 From: Doug Brode Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #193 Greetings Is there a technique or method for making MP3 files of old vinyl recordings. I just got a Soundblaster Live. I heard that that's a place to start. What other kind of software is needed. Is there a good Web site that provides tips and tricks? And why not put all the TAPE TREE stuff on a special FTP site where we can all enjoy it. Thanks, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:36:17 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #185 Rainy Night House was written about Leonard Cohen, but I believe that Suzanne was written about Suzanne Verdal, a dancer that Leonard met back in the sixties in Montreal. There is an interview with the woman that can be read at www.leonardcohenfiles.com. Look under the analysis for Suzanne. BTW, He came from a Jewish family. - -Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:54:33 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Quadrophonic Joni All this talk about the Quadrophonic version of "Hissing" really stirred up my interest in the whole "Quadrphonic" period of rock............Luckily, I found out that the company that released "Court" and "Hissing" put it out on "Discrete" vinyl, which means that all one needs is a particular record stylus and a reciever that will pick up 4 tracks, aka Surround SOund capability...... WELL..............Determined I went to a local used record shop and searched the hell through the "Audiophile" and "Joni Mitchell" vinyl sections........I got Nada..........Well, I decided to be a bad boy and peruse their back up retail that lay underneath the record bins...........and...........What do you know? A Quad version of "Hissing" was underneath.....and the asking price........ $4.00. I ran home to play this rare find and about flipped when I heard "The Jungle Line".........If you channel the speakers a certain way it pulls out the drums!!!!! and what's left is an ACOUSTIC version of the song!!!!!!!! It's almost impossible to hear the guitar on the CD because the tracks are piled over each other.....the drums drown out the guitar..............Just to hear the album on vinyl was amazing!!!!! it sounds so much richer and fuller, her voice sounds amazing!!!!!! (more than usual) SO..............check your local used-record stores for this jewel, it's worth it.............. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:53:45 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Ella sings Coyote > doug! that's so true! why is it that opera singers sound so ridiculous when > they try pop and that big jazz names can't do pop and that nobody can do pop > except pop singers? what's with pop that's so elusive anyway??????? Ok, meaning no disrespect to our beloved Birthday Fairy, but what do you think most of the so-called 'standards' of the 30s, 40s & 50s that Ella, Sarah & Billie recorded were? They were pop songs. The pop music of their day. Most of them didn't start out life as 'jazz'. There are exceptions of course (aren't there always?) Ellington & Strayhorn's songs come to mind. The great jazz singers & players made these songs into jazz with their treatment of them. I'm no expert on jazz so I don't know what chords or rhythms make a piece of music 'jazz'. But I am fairly certain that Rogers & Hart, Cole Porter, Harold Arlen, etc. wrote pop songs. True, some were influenced by jazz, but I don't think their songs would be considered pure jazz in their original forms. Gershwin of course was very much influenced by jazz. And speaking of Gershwin, he also composed an opera, as most of you probably know, called 'Porgy & Bess'. One of the songs from that opera is a lovely little tune called 'Summertime' which has been recorded by Janis Joplin, Billie Holiday and even Siquomb herself. Now did they sound silly singing 'opera'? Ok, so that's a bit of a stretch, but like I said, there's always an exception to every rule. Making generalizations on the JMDL is a dangerous game. Mark in ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:05:57 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Ella sings Coyote > wallyK, humbly back to wagner and richard strauss, where i belong.... Don't you dare limit yourself that way! You have a lot more knowledge about music than I could ever hope to have. Most of my knowledge about this kind of thing comes from reading liner notes of Billie Holiday records (and listening to those records) and several biographies of her. Also from the Ken Burns PBS film and several people have expressed their disatisfaction about the gaps in that work. So you chime in on anything you want, Sweetie! (as if anybody could stop you;-)) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:25:51 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni miscarriage I didn't know about the miscarraige. She was 47 at the time. janine sherman wrote: > I have been reading articles lately on the jmdl.com webpage and came = > across this article. > Did any list members know Joni had a miscarriage in 1990? Poor baby. I = > don't mean to bring bad news up for laundering, I just feel sad for her = > and can understand even more of her melancholy. Janine > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/961208tm.cfm > > [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of The Mail, December 8, 1996.url] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:17:25 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Ella sings Coyote you're right, mark! i was making a hasty generalization. what i had in mind when i wrote that post was ella singing some of the stuff she recorded in [i think] the late 60's [the one that goes ''humpty dumpty my head over yooooooooouuuuuu...'', i don't remember the lyrics], te kanawa singing cole porter and bolton singing ''nessun dorma''. besides, i guess i was thinking of pop in the 30's as tin pan alley and that stuff and that the material that billie and ella recorded was already standard and no longer pop or, in billie's case, still a little ''underground'' to be pop. but of course there are lots of exceptions to what we call pop, jazz, opera, etc.. as to porgy and bess, i've always had trouble thinking of it as ''opera''. but then, i've never heard p&b from end to end and i am sure that i don't identify it as opera because one can sing summertime even if one isn't classically trained!!!!! so that's the extent of my prejudice... wallyK, humbly back to wagner and richard strauss, where i belong.... - -----Mensaje original----- De: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] Enviado el: Jueves, 26 de Abril de 2001 10:54 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; Doug Brode; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Ella sings Coyote Ok, meaning no disrespect to our beloved Birthday Fairy, but what do you think most of the so-called 'standards' of the 30s, 40s & 50s that Ella, Sarah & Billie recorded were? They were pop songs. The pop music of their day. Most of them didn't start out life as 'jazz'. There are exceptions of course (aren't there always?) Ellington & Strayhorn's songs come to mind. The great jazz singers & players made these songs into jazz with their treatment of them. I'm no expert on jazz so I don't know what chords or rhythms make a piece of music 'jazz'. But I am fairly certain that Rogers & Hart, Cole Porter, Harold Arlen, etc. wrote pop songs. True, some were influenced by jazz, but I don't think their songs would be considered pure jazz in their original forms. Gershwin of course was very much influenced by jazz. And speaking of Gershwin, he also composed an opera, as most of you probably know, called 'Porgy & Bess'. One of the songs from that opera is a lovely little tune called 'Summertime' which has been recorded by Janis Joplin, Billie Holiday and even Siquomb herself. Now did they sound silly singing 'opera'? Ok, so that's a bit of a stretch, but like I said, there's always an exception to every rule. Making generalizations on the JMDL is a dangerous game. Mark in ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #133 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?