From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #131 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, April 25 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 131 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: the album form [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... ["Brenda J. Walker" ] virus [catman ] Re: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics [M.Russell@iaea.org] LSD and lestat ["shane mattison" ] RE: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics ["Deb Messling" ] Re: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - James and Carey [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: the album form [Catherine McKay ] Re: Down with TLAs! [Catherine McKay ] Re: Fw: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail [Catherine McKay ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #130 [StDoherty@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 03:06:19 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the album form In a message dated 4/24/01 1:38:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: << One thing that I misstated was personal use....it should be noncommercial use. >> Thanks for the clarification and information. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 03:11:57 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... In a message dated 4/24/01 2:57:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: << I am admittedly not a lawyer, but can you honestly tell me that I would be charged with infringement and that I could not prevail using the fair use doctrine, if I made one copy for my own noncommercial use? I know that libraries set their own rules, some stating no copying and others posting the rules for copying relative to fair use. >> The rule or law you posted allows the libary to make copies for lendin to its patrons and excuses the library and its employees from liability if you, the library patron, illegally uses its equipment to make a copy of something protected by copyright law. I don't see anything in there that makes it OK for the patron to copy for personal use. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:29:16 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... Fair use means that my use of the equipement would NOT be illegal. IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/24/01 2:57:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: > > << > I am admittedly not a lawyer, but can you honestly tell me that I would be > charged with infringement and that I could not prevail using the fair use > doctrine, if I made one copy for my own noncommercial use? > > I know that libraries set their own rules, some stating no copying and others > posting the rules for copying relative to fair use. >> > The rule or law you posted allows the libary to make copies for lendin to > its patrons and excuses the library and its employees from liability if you, > the library patron, illegally uses its equipment to make a copy of something > protected by copyright law. I don't see anything in there that makes it OK > for the patron to copy for personal use. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:36:50 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: the album form/fair use and libraries... To clarify.... (2) excuses a person who uses such reproducing equipment or who requests a copy or phonorecord under subsection (d) from liability for copyright infringement for any such act, or for any later use of such copy or phonorecord, if it exceeds fair use as provided by section 107; The person here is not an employee; it is a patron. This states that the person will not be excused IF the copy EXCEEDS fair use....if it does not exceed fair use, then it is perfectly fine and there is nothing to excuse. In fact, libraries are even allowed to make the copy for you and you can keep it provided that it is not intended for uses outside of the Fair Use exception....that is also in Section 108. And also provided that they post rules at the counter where such copies are made stating the law with respect to fair use. They also must post this statement by the recording equipment. "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > Fair use means that my use of the equipement would NOT be illegal. > > IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/24/01 2:57:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: > > > > << > > I am admittedly not a lawyer, but can you honestly tell me that I would be > > charged with infringement and that I could not prevail using the fair use > > doctrine, if I made one copy for my own noncommercial use? > > > > I know that libraries set their own rules, some stating no copying and others > > posting the rules for copying relative to fair use. >> > > The rule or law you posted allows the libary to make copies for lendin to > > its patrons and excuses the library and its employees from liability if you, > > the library patron, illegally uses its equipment to make a copy of something > > protected by copyright law. I don't see anything in there that makes it OK > > for the patron to copy for personal use. > > > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:37:09 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - James and Carey Hi Janine, I have some input for you based on my recall, some list threads and other references. Right after Blue came out at the end of June 1971 (I heard it first on that 4th of July) I remember hearing on the radio and in the newspaper that Joni and James had broken up. The new James Taylor bio "Fire and Rain" also states "they had broken up by the time the album (Blue) was released." In around September 1971, I heard another radio report that a devastated Joni had fled L.A. The JT bio also recounts this and says that she went off to write the For The Roses songs, most all of them about Taylor. I didn't hear anything else until For The Roses was released sometime in the Fall of 1972. So I was surprised a couple years ago when a former listmember here sent me a recording of the McGovern Benefit in Cleveland, Ohio featuring Joni, James and Paul Simon and dated May 8, 1972. I had always imagined that she would have still been away in B.C. at that time. Also interesting is that on this recording she performed three song from the yet to be released For The Roses - Electricity, Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire and Banquet. The new JT bio, IMO, is dubious in some parts and the timing of events is often off both with Joni and Carly, but in this case, the dates cited coincide with my recall. The bio also alleges that Joni was writing songs about Taylor up until the early 1980s. When I first heard Blue, I thought all the songs were about JT! So did many of us. But over many threads it has been determined that probably only All I Want can be attributed to him. Joni wrote My Old Man when she was still with Nash and Carry is really about a red-headed character named Carey Raditz (sp.?) I think that it is on another live recording of Joni at the Troubadour in L.A. in 1972, where she talks all about Carey, who was an American hippie cook at the local (Mermaid) Cafe. In either that show or another interview, she mentioned running into Carey years later at the Renaissance Fair in SoCal. It may be about time to run another CD/tape tree to get these recordings around to newer listmembers. Kakki NP: Banquet - McGovern Benefit ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:56:47 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Walk on By and misc. > I can make you a copy of all the series so far. But then we'll have the > usual problem of getting it converted to that inferior NTSC system you have > in the states. Our friend Rob from the UK used to be good at video > conversions, I wonder where he went. But I'm sure we can work something > out. Thank you so much for the offer Philip. Now to try to figure the conversion ;-) I also wonder where Rob went and miss him here. To all listmembers who have gotten the copy of the incredible "Pink Dress"/Joni BBC video compilation, we have Philip and Rob Jordan to thank for seeding the original! Kakki NP: My Old Man - 1970 Joni TV taping ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:02:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: virus It appears one can receive a virus without opening an attachment. See link. http://antivirus.about.com/compute/antivirus/library/blemail.htm - -- bw colin BRO GC, 950i, 864, 260, 890,Silver 830 and 270, Passap 6000 Duo80 colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:52:39 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics + + + + + + + + Something In the Way She Moves There's something in the way she moves, Or looks my way, or calls my name, That seems to leave this troubled world behind. And if I'm feeling down and blue, Or troubled by some foolish game, She always seems to make me change my mind. Chorus: And I feel fine anytime she's around me now, She's around me now Just about all the time And if I'm well you can tell she's been with me now, She's been with me now quite a long, long time And I feel fine.___________ It isn't what she's got to say But how she thinks and where she's been To me, the words are nice, the way they sound I like to hear them best that way It doesn't much matter what they mean If she says them mostly just to calm me down Every now and then the things I lean on lose their meaning And I find myself careening Into places where I should not let me go. She has the power to go where no one else can find me And to silently remind me Of the happiness and the good times that I know, got to know. James Taylor + + + + + + + + ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 04:21:38 -0600 From: "shane mattison" Subject: LSD and lestat lestat in de sky with de hairballs lestat in de sky wit de hairballs lestat in the sky wit de hairballs ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... picture yourself on a boat with joni with marmalade dreams and lookingglass eyes...suddenly lestat appears right before you and pees on de roses and makes hairballish cries... (from hunter s thompson's song "lestat in de sky wit de hairballs) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 06:22:16 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Something In The Way She Moves - JT lyrics Somehow this lyric doesn't spell JONI to me. I don't think of Joni as a calming presence like the lady in this song. I think of her more as someone who runs around alarming people. > It isn't what she's got to say > But how she thinks and where she's been > To me, the words are nice, the way they sound > I like to hear them best that way > It doesn't much matter what they mean > If she says them mostly just to calm me down > - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:30:40 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Duncan Shiek covers Joni Sue Cameron wrote: > Steve, > > I love Duncan's work and think that he could really > do justice to Court and Spark. Is there a chance > that this will be recorded? Well, it is on Joni's Jazz cd/tape. His performance of Court and Spark was less than stellar, though I do like his work. Jerry np: Judy Collins - Daddy You've Been On My Mind ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:41:36 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - James and Carey In a message dated 4/24/01 4:44:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: > Joni wrote My Old Man when she was still > with Nash and Carry is really about a red-headed character named Carey > Raditz (sp.?) I think that it is on another live recording of Joni at the > Troubadour in L.A. in 1972, where she talks all about Carey, who was an > American hippie cook at the local (Mermaid) Cafe. In either that show or > another interview, she mentioned running into Carey years later at the > Renaissance Fair in SoCal. > > It may be about time to run another CD/tape tree to get these recordings > around to newer listmembers. > > I agree Kakki, we should make these recordings available to new listmembers. Some of these stories she tells are just priceless. I have a recording that Steve Ponsonby in Scotland was so kind enough to provide me with. (thanks Steve :~) It is dated 2/23/72 Live at Carnegie hall where Joni telling the story of meeting this person. She walks into a place and has some garbage to throw away. She sees this guy with a turban wrapped around and around in dirty whites. He had wild red hair and a heart in one ear and a gold loop in the other. She goes on to describe him with fierce blue eyes and the mark of Cane on his brows (thinking). She asks him what she could do with the garbage and looked at her abruptly and threw the garbage over his shoulders all over floor. He was the cook there LOL. She asks him for his birthdate. For his birthday she gave him 10 Mickey Mouse chocolate bars. Carey was very impressed because they had these Snow White cards in them in Greek and they were odd ones that nobody else had at the time. She went on to say she wrote him this song "Carey you're a mean old daddy but I like you." Rose in NJ NP: Woodstock Carnegie Hall 1972 rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:12:38 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #187 Deb wrote: > That's the first time I've heard that "Something in the Way She Moves" was > written about Joni. That song appeared on James's 1968 Apple release. Did > Joni and James know each other then? > Don't let a technicality like that spoil a good story. He fancied her for 3 years before he got to go on a date with her. OK ? Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:25:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: the album form - --- Randy Remote wrote: > The problem isn't just about music, it's about > centralized > media. Television, film and music are now owned by > a tiny > handful of corporations that are mainly interested > in offering > mass-marketed, highly profitable product. Picking up on this thread, one of the things that annoys the hell out of me is all the crap on TV, and the tons of product, but little of value when you go to the video store to rent something - is it just me, or does it mostly seem to be the SAME movie? Hey, people, how about an original story? a real plotline? people that LOOK like real people and who live in regular houses instead of glittery palaces? People who actually DIE when they get shot/blown-up or when they leap over tall buildings with a single bound? Could there BE too many court-room dramas? too many mindless action flicks? Apparently not. Bubblegum for the mind, I tellya. This place is going to hell in a handbasket. Too much reality might freak us out too much - why would I want to watch people who are ordinary, with petty little problems, just like me? It might depress us too much. So, let's have our media anti-depressants and mind-numbing survivor and millionaire shows. Someone at work (who actually watches Millionaire!?!) tells me the high-paying question the other night was "What was Mrs. Brady's maiden name"? (from the Brady Bunch.) Who the hell CARES? Knowing the answer to something like that has nothing to do with intelligence. We are a trivia-based society. I suggest that's a symptom of corruption, but correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe it's a symptom of stress. Maybe the stress is induced by the media to keep us complacent? I think I'm becoming paranoid. Anyhoo, apparently this is "Turn off your TV" week, so you might want to turn off the radio too. Listen to some Joni (you wouldn't get much of *that* on the radio); talk to your kids; take a walk around your neighbourhood and get to know all the neighbourhood dogs, like you did when you were a kid. Let's all boycott junkfood for juveniles! Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:37:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Down with TLAs! - --- Doug Brode wrote: > And I never want to see another FLA here either. No > TLAs or FLAs!! Do you > hear me?! > > (TLA -- Three Letter Acronym) > (FLA -- Four letter Acronym) > > OK. I'll shut up now. > I hate the bloody things too! Somehow LOL doesn't have the same effect for me as Haha! And when people sign off ATB, I always stop a minute to ask myself, "What the hell does that mean?" or BTW, FYI, ROTFL, and so on. To me, if it takes more brain-power to translate acronyms into real language than it does keystrokes to type the word (or, horror of horrors!) your own words, then it's not worth it. TTFN, AHA (Ta Ta for now, Acronym Haters Anonymous) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:45:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fw: 1972 McGovern Campaign trail - --- janine sherman wrote: > Joni > Mitchell, James Taylor, and > Paul Simon toured for George McGovern who ran > against Tricky Dick and lost. I > saw them in Canton, Ohio near where I grew up. I > remember George McGovern > coming out on the stage at the end and holding hands > with them; raising arms > in the air. So it'll be almost 30 years since I saw > JT, but will on July 11 > in Hershey, PA. He's bald now. Don't be too shocked. ;) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:56:25 From: "Steve Harper" Subject: House Concert at Victor's... (Well, I just knew that either Victor or Kate or Bob Muller would share this event with the group, but since I haven't noticed anything from them, I'll take up the mantle.) Steve here.....I think I posted back in 1973. (It's been a while.) Anyway, the list's own Victor Johnson and Kate Bennett (and Kate's husband, Jeff) performed a magnificent double set for a group of about thirty folks at Victor and Holly's Atlanta home last Sunday night. Trading songs in the round, Victor, Kate, and Jeff shared from their formidable arsenals of songwriting. I didn't take notes, but let's see: we enjoyed songs about swamps and disaster and love and parenthood and Paris and summertime and oil and Georgia and Santa Barbara. We were floored by Victor's cello performances. Kate's song, "Irene," was a highlight of the evening. She was accompanied by Victor on cello and Jeff on harmonica on a hauntingly personal song which Kate shared was unconsciously written about the passing of her mother. Another tune, "Full Moon Ride," is your "Night Ride Home," I believe, Kate. Victor played guitar, flute, and cello, while singing his interestingly chromatic tunes. (Well, not all at the same time, you know. Though he is very good.) We even got to hear his Joni-inspired, non-standard tuning composition which he wrote after attending a JoniFest. Victor's tunes are musically complex and rich, with similarly vivid lyrics. Jeff shared many sides of himself in alternating songs that were funny and quite serious. I was struck by his song entitled "Crucifix," which contrasted a love affair with, you know. The crowd enjoyed a couple of blues tunes of his. I found his harmonica accompaniment throughout the evening lovely and understated. (Ken thinks you should record an album of your own, as well, Jeff!) It was a fun evening of lovely music. Ken and I had a great time. (I personally would have enjoyed a little Joni-hootenanny, myself, to send us all off. I was ready to sing by the time the evening was over.) JMDLer and citizen-of-the-musical-world Bob Muller drove down from his South Carolina home for the show. It was good to see and chat with you in person again, Bob. Thanks for the promise of Hissing demos to come! Holly shared with me about her childrens' album, which is selling well and has received much acclaim. I asked her to play it for us; maybe next time? Let me reaffirm here what an amazing collection of people and experiences the JMDL encompasses! Take care all, Steve in Atlanta _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:53:46 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #130 In a message dated 4/24/01 3:29:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << I know that James Taylor wrote "Something in the Way She Moves" about his relationship with Joni Mitchell. Did Joni write a song about James? >> I don't think so ... nineteen year old Taylor hadn't met Joni at this point. Perhaps she made a tip of the hat to Taylor in See You Sometime ... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #131 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?