From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #127 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, April 21 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 127 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hejira lyric alterations [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: Hejira lyric alterations ["c Karma" ] Lyric alterations ["Craig" ] Joni mention in Stereophile [Jerry Notaro ] RE: COYOTE [Doug Brode ] Joni's popularity in the 70's [BachelorNumero2@aol.com] Joni mention AND picture in local (Birmingham UK) paper [Fonimitchell@aol] Re: "Swallow song" [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #182 [Doug Brode ] Re: FTR [Randy Remote ] There's a Quadraphonic Hissing on EBay [Guy Brown ] Re: FTR ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: FTR [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Hejira lyric alterations ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:44:38 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations In a message dated 4/20/01 2:35:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rnsc@direct.ca writes: << Are you going to be disappointed with the original? The lighting, size, or placement may make you look at it in a new way but it will probably be the same picture you travelled all those miles to see and you'll still be thrilled. But if the artist has come back to add a perm to the Mona Lisa or a Ferris wheel to A Starry Night then you're likely to be a bit disappointed with your museum experience. (Damn, this all seemed so logical when I sat down at the keyboard...I blame the flu for any apparent lack of coherence. Don't laugh, I'm sick, okay?) >> You're sick, so you missed making what could have been a great point -- that is, imagine how many MORE people would go to art museums if there was a chance that there was something new or different in what had been static old paintings that hadn't changed in centuries. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:27:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations << I guess what I mean is that emotionally, everything's pretty well mapped out in Joni's songs.>> Great post, Mark, and I guess you KNEW you'd get a response from me on THIS topic! ;~) Obviously, being the Joni coversmeister has opened my eyes a lot about the subject. Just a couple of points... 1. The more popular cover songs of Joni's are songs that were ALREADY hits; BSN, Woodstock, BYT, UFG...so people picked up on them usually through somebody else's cover to START with. I think Joni's songs have touched SO many people in all genres of music that even though they're not looking for a hit they feel compelled to cover one of her songs... 2. One of the great walls I constantly have to attempt to tear down is that nobody can do one of Joni's songs better than she can. This just simply isn't true, and it defies common logic! I mean, Joni has written around 200 songs, and there are how many other interpretive singers out there?...thousands! To think that NONE of them can interpret Joni's material better than she can is naive, imo. Bonnie Raitt's "Midway" has a world-weary soul to it that Joni can't touch, and Chaka's "Man From Mars" is much more mournful and emotional. By the same token, someone with the genius of a David Lahm can find a new groove hidden in a song and make a brand-new jazz interpretaion of it. I could go on and on...it's all subjective, of course. Coming up on Volume 17 is yet another cover of BSN, this one by a black male singer named Orlando. Recorded in 1970, this artist plays the harp and sings in a very emotive way. Even after hearing BSN in all of its incarnations literally hundreds of times, I wept upon listening to this charged up version. 3. There are very few "songwriters" these days who write solely for others to sing, whereas in days of yore it was the norm. Gershwin, Porter, Rodgers, Arlen, etc. wrote songs for singers, and singers (Sinatra, Ella, Billie, Sara) didn't write but rather would interpret these songs. Rock and roll changed all that. The Beatles changed from being a covers band to writing and performing their own material, and along with Dylan drove a whole new wave of writers and performers to wear both hats. There were some exceptions, of course, the Brill Building writers cranking out hits for the Bobby Vees of the times, but soon those writers (Paul Simon, Carole King, Neil Sedaka) saw the light and became performers as well. This being said, there are lots of talented interpretive singers out there, Holly Cole, Diana Krall, and Cassandra Wilson among them. I too dislike what she did with Black Crow, but she nails BSN with Pat Martino... 4. Many of Joni's songs don't lend themselves to being re-done because they're so personal to her (Cherokee Louise, Let The Wind Carry Me) or because they're so complex (Judgement of the Moon & Stars, Pirate of Penance, Sire of Sorrow), or because they are part or a larger project (just about everything on DJRD). OK, I'll shut up for now....I certainly don't disagree with anything you've said, I think it's a wonderful topic. Hopefully others will pick up on it as well... Bob, starting his weekend with Friday off! NP: UB40, "Rat In The Kitchen" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:16:21 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Hejira lyric alterations Mark, I think that Ella had ample opportunity to record one of Joni's songs, continuing to record into her 80s. Their simulatneous careers overlapped by over twenty years. I don't want to generalize, but I think that the "golden" era of jazz vocals seemed to highlight songs written by men. Perhaps it was because life on the road for a jazz musician was hard for all but the toughest, and the songs rose spontaneously from among a group that was disproportionately male? I don't really know. I'll leave that type of interpretation to Ken Burns. With rare exceptions like Sippy Wallace, few female songwriters seemed to appeal to jazz and blues singers. Peggy Lee was one of the first successful breakthrough female artists to have other vocalists record her songs. Frank Sinatra, certainly a member of the "golden" club, recorded "Both Sides Now" very early. Of course, we should remember that he was the owner of Reprise records (Joni's first record company and the one she was signed to at the time) when he did so, but he was also very selective about his material ("Something Stupid" not withstanding) and his brilliant career reflected it. I have to respectfully disagree with you about Cassandra Wilson's interpretations of "Black Crow" and "Drycleaner From DesMoines." I think they are fine covers in her idiom, particularly "Drycleaner." I was at the TNT taping and thought Wilson's performance was scintillating, singing a full octive down from Joni's key. As good as the post production was for that show, perhaps they might have done a little better on the audio mix, but the placement of the horn section in such a wide swath across the stage made it very difficult to mike adequately. I think, though that we may not fully swing on that one until Quincy Jones serves up an arrangement for it (just my little fantasy). But who else could dare sing (scat) this famously difficult, technically demanding song? Drycleaner, Quincy Jones and ? Hmmmmm. Hendricks and Ross? CC "In a low-cut blouse she brings the beer. Rousseau paints a jungle flower behind her ear." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:30:25 -0700 From: "Craig" Subject: Lyric alterations All these posts about lyric and song alterations got me thinking about when I saw Joni's 1983 Wild Things Tour. She performed For Free with a couple of extra lines. Then again on the Refuge video she sings it that way again. I've not heard her do this song since. I do believe an artist is forever evolving (I was married to one for years). Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:39:41 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Joni mention in Stereophile "Horn opens with "You're My Thrill," which Joni Mitchell sings on Both Sides Now. Love that Joni, but clearly she's been listening to Horn, who here shows how it's done." Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:17:32 -0400 From: Doug Brode Subject: RE: COYOTE More on the coyote thing. >From: Gellerray@aol.com >Subject: Re: That Coyote Guy (long, sorry) > > >So, according to the masseuse at the spa in Sonoma (which spa I cannot say: >this was about three years ago), Coyote is SS. > >I don't know though--who knows? I don't know Joni's history that well--or >Sam Shepard's...but I do remember an entry/paragraph in Sam's journal which >was published after Rolling Thunder where he talks about Joni and her >performance/music/writing. It sounds a bit objective--appreciative but >distant. Not so intimate. And wasn't she performing "Coyote" on that tour? >Well, maybe they hooked up and she wrote the song and then started playing it >because she thought it rocked so much--which it certainly did! Joni was touring with Rolling Thunder (and Sam) in 1975. The copyright for Coyote is 1976. I think Coyote is Sam Shepard too. Here's why. From the song: HE'S TOO FAR FROM THE BAY OF FUNDY Sam Shepard said, I've been upside down under falling horses at full gallop and I almost blew myself up once with a plastic milk bottle full of white gas on the Bay of Fundy, where they have the highest tides in the world. http://www.randomhouse.com/vintage/storylines/bios/shepard.html And Sam also had a home in Canada. http://www.lopezbooks.com/articles/norman.html FROM APPALOOSAS AND EAGLES AND TIDES Appaloosas are horses of course, and Sam is a horseman. And tides probably refer again to the Bay of Fundy, where (as Sam says correctly) they have the highest tides in the world. AND THE AIR CONDITIONED CUBICLES AND THE CARBON RIBBON RIDES Sam is a playwright and says he's never owned a word processor, so he says. He types all his work on an old typewriter -- probably with a carbon ribbon. And Sam is a prisoner of the white lines of the freeway as well. He says, "I've learned to love to drive. I love long-distance driving. The farther the better. I love covering immense stretches in one leap: Memphis to New York City; Gallup to L.A.; Saint Paul to Richmond; Lexington to Baton Rouge; Bismarck to Cody. Leaps like these. Without a partner. Completely alone. Relentless driving. Driving until the body disappears, the legs fall off, the eyes bleed, the hands go numb, the mind shuts down, and then, suddenly, something new begins to appear." Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case. Cheers, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:27:28 EDT From: BachelorNumero2@aol.com Subject: Joni's popularity in the 70's hey Joni fans, I'm 22 years old, (I was born right before the "Mingus" album was released), so it's hard for me to see Joni's career in a proper retrospective. Now, we all know that C&S was a huge hit and THOSL had a lot of expectations on it when it was released. When THOSL didn't meet those expectations, the critics and most fans were infuriated and rejected the album. The album did pretty well regardless and even "In France........" peaked at #66 on Billboard. OK. Well, "Hejira" had no singles that charted, nor did "Don Juan"............(why does everyone say that "Mingus" killed her radio airplay when it looks like it was dead by the "Hejira" period???? Would Mitchell's outrageous musical turns and public fickle taste be equal to Madonna's outrageousness with her "Sex" book and popularity dive in the mid 90's???? Because both women were still very famous and in the spotlight???? Except, Madonna got back on track a lot sooner than Joni did...................but none the difference............. help me visualize this......... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:56:12 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Joni mention AND picture in local (Birmingham UK) paper The article in today's Birmingham Evening Mail was about Ian Matthews, original Fairport Convention member, who has reformed his band Plainsong and is playing in Birmingham soon. There was much reference to "Woodstock" with which his band Matthews Southern Comfort had a huge hit and many people think was their song. The Joni picture was captioned - "Joni Mitchell - inspiration." And who would argue with that? I'm going to Portugal for a week tomorrow so I'll talk to you all when I get back - just in time for rehearsals for Foni's gig in Birmingham on 4th May. Take care. Clive. NP: "Strange Way Of Showing Your Love." - All About Eve (who I'm going to see on 6th May - yippeee!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:24:30 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: "Swallow song" In a message dated 4/20/01 8:20:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << "Swallow Song" >> I know that the duo Kathy and Carol who I read about in the book "Follow the music"(about the Electra label) sung this song.Apparently,the albums by Kathy and carol are out of print. I wish I could listen to their album. I was intrigued by the description of their singing in the "Follow the music" book. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:11:08 -0400 From: Doug Brode Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #182 Greetings >From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" >Subject: Ola! NJC > > >To witness a spectacular version of "Amelia", you must own "Shadows and >Light" (1980). It's remarkable and I prefer it to PwW&M. The soundtrack is >available on CD but the VHS is hard to find and there's no DVD yet. Huh? What?! Is Shadows and Light available on VHS?! Good God, I must have it. What other videos are there of Joni? Cheers, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:28:37 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: FTR The songs on FTR were, I think, for the most part shaped by two dynamics. First, her traumatic breakup with James Taylor. Secondly, her personal crisis concerning whether she wanted to continue playing the rock star game. Both are evident in the title track. "Remember the days when you used to sit and make up your tunes for love and pour your simple sorrow to the soundhole and your knee And now you're seen on giant screens and at parties for the press and for people who have slices of you from the company" Taylor was enjoying a surge in success at that time, besides his red-hot music carreer, he had just made the film "Two Lane Blacktop". Although his acting carreer was short- lived, Joni saw in his success many things about the business and her own stardom that made her uncomfortable. "I guess I seem ungrateful with my teeth sunk in the hand that brings me things I really can't give up just yet" She retreated to her property in British Columbia to lick her wounds and evaluate. The applauding crowds still rang in her ears, so far from the concert stage. But no, it was the arbutus trees rustling. A good dose of direct contact with nature, as well as daily swims in the icy ocean were part of her personal healing process. She came up with the starkly-raw, nerve-ends-bearing songs on FTR, which she must have realized were on a whole new level. Plus; reality: she had a record contract to adhere to. "Judgement of the Moon and the Stars" closes the album, and contemplates the life of someone married to Art, in this case Beethoven. In the end, despite being misunderstood, despite much mental anguish and suffering, she tells him in no uncertain terms that he should, that he must GO FOR IT. "You've got to shake your fist at lightning now you've got to roar like the forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes all across the sky..... ......condemned to wires and hammers, strike every chord you feel that broken trees and elephant ivories conceal" RR Kammass@aol.com wrote: > Hey everyone, > thanks to all those who wished me happy listening. FTR was enjoyable. I was > surprised at the age of it. I was reminded of CS more than anything. It > seems to me the album is composed of lost loves and lost moments. In > particular, the title track. Can anyone go deeper? > thanks Kammy > NP-still listening to FTR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:30:06 -0700 From: Guy Brown Subject: There's a Quadraphonic Hissing on EBay I'm bidding on it http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1425347308 and will dub it to CD and send it out to anyone who is interested (let me know off list), after I win it (! we hope). So we (JMDL Listers) might avoid bidding against each other here possibly :) I'm excited because I was beginning to think the only Quad Hissing was on 8 Track, but here's a vinyl piece sold by someone who has obviously looked after it. GUY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:02:43 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: FTR process. > She came up with the starkly-raw, > nerve-ends-bearing songs on FTR, which she must have > realized were on a whole new level. The more I think about it the more I think 'For the Roses' is one of the most important records in Joni's output. With 'For the Roses' she seems to have finally grown up, so to speak. She's still a sensitive romantic but she's not going to crumble if life & love knock her down from time to time. Instead she'll lick her wounds and get back up, swinging. Although the lyrics are more to the point, the depth of what she writes about has increased and the music is getting more & more complex. 'Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire', 'Banquet', 'Lesson in Survival', 'Woman of Heart & Mind' - these are not the songs of a precocious girl, these are the work of a mature woman. A woman who's had her share of hard knocks, fallen apart, put it back together and is ready to move on to bigger & better things. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:00:10 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: FTR In a message dated 4/21/01 12:19:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << 'Banquet', >> It seems to me that the beginning songs on a lot of Joni's albums are kind of the "theme song" for what follows."Banquet" is kind of the theme song for FTR,a philosophical song about life. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:14:11 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations Mark in Seattle asked: Cassandra Wilson is certainly pushing the envelope with the material she records but I still don't like her version of 'Black Crow' and her 'Drycleaner' on the TNT tribute was kinda lackluster, I thought. Anyone else? Mark in Seattle - -**** Best vocal cover of "Black Crow", IMHO, belongs to Bryan Thomas, for his recording in Ashara's living room (!) in 98. Second favorite? Bryan's studio version on "wafers and wine". Jim L'Hommedieu ps- Quite a thread, going here...... 18 hours to Cowboy Junkies.......... 20 hours to Jonatha Brooke......... tic tic tic... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #127 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?