From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #123 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, April 18 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 123 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) ["Sue Cameron" ] Hejira lyric alterations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Hejira lyric alterations ["Nikki Johnson" ] RE: Hejira lyric alterations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [SMEBD@aol.com] RE: Hejira lyric alterations ["Nikki Johnson" ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Ola! [singer@redbrick.dcu.ie (Brian Scanlan)] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Don Rowe ] RE: Hejira lyric alterations [Catherine McKay ] Re: Ola! [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Brian Gross ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Ola! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Hejira lyric alterations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: Hejira lyric alterations ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Randy Remote ] RE: Hejira lyric alterations ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Hejira lyric alterations [Don Rowe ] Re: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Gary Zack ] RE: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Hejira lyric alterations ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) [SMEBD@aol.com] RE: Hejira lyric alterations ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Mark Domyancich ] You are the WEAKEST Link! [Mark Domyancich ] RE: Hejira lyric alterations [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [Michael Paz ] Re: Ola! [Michael Paz ] Re: Request [Michael Paz ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [mags ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations [mags ] Kate and CJ in Delaware SJC ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ...For the Roses ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Painting with words and music ["Kakki" ] RE: Hejira lyric alterations ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Hejira lyric alterations ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:20:30 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) This CD has not left my player at school for three weeks running. I am mezmerized. Although I have not played it in the order David wished it were printed in it has been on shuffle and the most interesting combinations occur. I must agree with Paz and say that Ladies of the Canyon is magnificient. Also I really enjoy Off Night Back Street. David has thrown in a few of his own gems, which make for nice listening. Those of you who have not purchased this please go through either web site and do so! Great music to have on at the office (or in the classroom!). Happy Tuesday, Sue Cameron NP: Cat choking up hairball ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:18:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Hejira lyric alterations This morning while driving to work, Black Crow came on the stereo. One of the world's perfect road songs. The musical blending of Joni's vocal, guitar, Larry Carlton's guitar, Jaco is just amazing texture. But what I was thinking about was the lyric. After she sang it in the studio, every other version I've heard changes "In search of love & music" to "in search of truth & beauty". Do you think she wanted to make the song more universal in scope? Likewise, in "Refuge", she's performed it singing "A drunk with sage's eyes" as opposed to "He drank & womanized". Both lines sing smoothly, the former is a little harder, I think. I'd love to hear her explanation for these shifts... The only other one I can think of was the change in "Coyote" from her early live performances where she sang: "He has another woman for the night and he wants me for the day" to "He's got another woman down the hall and I think he wants me anyway" The revised lyric making Coyote even more of a blatant womanizer. Is the womanizing Coyote the same "friend of spirit" in Refuge? Whaddya think? Bob NP: Elton John, "Indian Sunset" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:58:34 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations Interesting topic Bob! I don't have the answers, but I have noticed the same things. For me, the man in Coyote has always been the same as the one in Refuge of The Roads. I just always connected them, and also if you look at the journey she is taking she could be coming full circle as they say. As for the word changes, I know when I write (which isn't necessarily how Joni writes of course) that I sometimes go back and try to make the lines stronger or flow better with the rest of the poem. Or, if it's a song, sometimes I sing different lyrics by accident and sing them over and over and then they just kind of become the new lyrics...lol. Probably not the answers you were looking for but figured I'd offer up some ideas from my personal experience. Ok back to trying to get going this morning...have a nice day! Love Nikki "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 8:19 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Hejira lyric alterations > > > This morning while driving to work, Black Crow came on the > stereo. One of the world's perfect road songs. The musical > blending of Joni's vocal, guitar, Larry Carlton's guitar, Jaco is > just amazing texture. > > But what I was thinking about was the lyric. After she sang it in > the studio, every other version I've heard changes "In search of > love & music" to "in search of truth & beauty". Do you think she > wanted to make the song more universal in scope? > > Likewise, in "Refuge", she's performed it singing "A drunk with > sage's eyes" as opposed to "He drank & womanized". Both lines > sing smoothly, the former is a little harder, I think. I'd love > to hear her explanation for these shifts... > > The only other one I can think of was the change in "Coyote" from > her early live performances where she sang: > > "He has another woman for the night and he wants me for the day" to > > "He's got another woman down the hall and I think he wants me anyway" > > The revised lyric making Coyote even more of a blatant womanizer. > > Is the womanizing Coyote the same "friend of spirit" in Refuge? > > Whaddya think? > > Bob > > NP: Elton John, "Indian Sunset" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:03:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations <> You know, I'll be honest...sometimes I'm so dumb I amaze myself! I suppose that it's obvious that "Coyote" & "Friend of Spirit" are one & the same, and that she makes the record circular by bookending it with these two songs, but I never realized it until I wrote that post - I was mostly writing about the lyric changes...then again, she DOES say "I *met* a friend of spirit" as opposed to "I *knew*, or I *had* a friend of spirit"...a subtle difference, sure, but in Joni's writing a solitary word can take on a lot of importance. By saying "met" I always thought that "friend of spirit" was a new friend...or maybe she's just a Mets fan like my buddy Christopher! ;~) <> Actually, Nikkarita, it was EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thanks for the perspective from a songwriter's point of view... Bob NP: Victor Johnson, "Beneath the Silver Moon" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:48:10 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations In a message dated 4/17/01 8:23:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > The only other one I can think of was the change in "Coyote" from her early > Hi Bob! Questions like this are why I love the JMDL! I'm not the only one to notice these changes! Gee, for once I fit in! Wish I had answers or explanations for these changes, but I don't. Another *change* that I have noticed is in Hejira: the original recording has the line "As snow gathers like bolts of lace/Waltzing on a ballroom girl". In recent years she sings "Waltzing on a bridal girl". And of course she changes: "Listen.../Strains of Benny Goodman/Coming thru the snow and the pinewood trees" to "Strains of person playing with her /Coming thru the snowy trees". Stephen--NP Joni "Number One" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:01:44 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations Bob! You are NOT dumb...and it is NOT obvious that these songs are about the same person so stop that! They very well could be about different people, I was just saying when I hear them I think of them as about the same person and with that perspective it makes a great way to begin and end the album. I always thought of 'met' as in the recent past, but also that leaves it open for the story to continue. Interesting thread Bob, glad to chime in on this one! These songs happen to be 2 of my favs :-) Love Hijera...always traveling... Love Nikki np: Elis Paul~ The World Ain't Slowin Down np: Ani DiFranco~ Most Of The Time (ok I am a slow typer...lol) "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:03 AM > To: stealth@voicenet.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations > > > < in Refuge of The Roads. I just always connected them, >> > > You know, I'll be honest...sometimes I'm so dumb I amaze myself! > I suppose that it's obvious that "Coyote" & "Friend of Spirit" > are one & the same, and that she makes the record circular by > bookending it with these two songs, but I never realized it until > I wrote that post - I was mostly writing about the lyric > changes...then again, she DOES say "I *met* a friend of spirit" > as opposed to "I *knew*, or I *had* a friend of spirit"...a > subtle difference, sure, but in Joni's writing a solitary word > can take on a lot of importance. > > By saying "met" I always thought that "friend of spirit" was a > new friend...or maybe she's just a Mets fan like my buddy Christopher! ;~) > > < offer up some ideas from my > personal experience.>> > > Actually, Nikkarita, it was EXACTLY what I was looking for! > Thanks for the perspective from a songwriter's point of view... > > Bob > > NP: Victor Johnson, "Beneath the Silver Moon" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:05:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations <> Great catch, Stephen! I had forgotten that one... I think she had changed it to "bridal girl" as far back as the S&L tour...anybody out there with better memory than me - or access to a copy of the CD? ;~) <<"Strains of person playing with her/Coming thru the snowy trees". >> True, and she uses that phrase to memorialize artists as well, like Miles Davis and Frank Sinatra, referred to as "Ol' Blue Eyes" on the west coast '98 leg I think... Speaking of memorializing...RIP Joey Ramone, who left us this week. Bob NPIMH: The Ramones, "I Wanna Be Sedated" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:13:39 +0100 From: singer@redbrick.dcu.ie (Brian Scanlan) Subject: Ola! Hallo, Joniolians. I've been kinda lurking here for a few weeks, just thought I'd say hello. I was directed to this list after a posting to alt.music.joni-mitchell (What a lonely and vacant newsgroup!). There's a nice sense of community around here (Keep up the infighting! ;) ). Some background about me: I came across Joni on a radio show. I liked River, lots. I bought Blue, listened to it a few times, lost it (!!), rebought it, fell in love with it and dutifully bought any Joni I could lay my hands on. I'm a bit dubious about anything past Court and Spark so far, but I'm giving the albums time. :) Musically, I think I'm from a slightly different background from a lot of ye. I grew up on noisy "alternative" music (Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr.) and listen to "wierd dancey music" like Boards of Canada and Aphex Twin. I like a lot of music, though I've never been big into Jazz, Blues... Anyway, the original reason why I posted to the newsgroup was that I was looking for live recordings/footage of Joni live - The only live Joni I have is the two tracks off the Isle of Wight DVD and the Painting With Words And Music DVD. I prefer the 1970 performance, so I'd like to be able to hear/see Joni of old. I've been told that here's a good place to find said CDs/Videos... Any help is muchly appreciated! Thanks! :) Brian. - -- Message from jerry@enigma.redbrick.dcu.ie on ttyrg at 18:02, 16/03/2001 *= Today's word is ... master =* Gurlz is weird man. *==============================* EOF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations Then there's the "hope and hoplessness/I've witnessed 30 years" ... to "oh so many" ... and even the spoken "all these many-many years." But I think the reasons for those changes are pretty transparent! ;-) Overall, the substitute phrasings always struck me as lines from "previous drafts" of the lyrics. Those lines that Joni always liked, but perhaps sacrificed or changed for a phrase that dovetailed into Jaco's bass line a little more neatly during the studio sessions -- things like that. I do this to my own words when I'm in the studio all the time. Such is the nature of songwriting. Combining lyrics (basically a two-dimensional medium) and music (a 3-dimensional medium), almost always means that one or the other will be nipped and tucked as a song is developed into a final track. But the original lines and inspiration never really goes away, and always lurks back there in your mind ... and often comes out improvisationally during the moment of a live performance. It wouldn't surprise me a bit that Joni herself might not even realize she sang those alternate lines ... and if played the verisons back-to-back (like we obviously do!) ... might cock her head slightly over to one side and say something like: "I honestly had NO idea ..." ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:04:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < as the one in Refuge of The Roads. I just always > connected them, >> > > You know, I'll be honest...sometimes I'm so dumb I > amaze myself! I suppose that it's obvious that > "Coyote" & "Friend of Spirit" are one & the same, > and that she makes the record circular by bookending > it with these two songs, but I never realized it > until I wrote that post - Oh Bob, you're not dumb at all! I never even think of this stuff until someone asks, at which point, sometimes I realize I had thought of it at some deeper level. I guess I just don't consciously analyze things this way (I guess I'm deep and superficial!) I do notice, Joni often changes the words, or parts of certain songs. I always figured she was updating it - making it relevant to the way it is to her at the moment, or the way it relates to today's world-reality. Has anyone ever attended a bunch of concerts that were part of the same tour? I'd be curious to know whether she changes the words from day to day, depending on the mood she's in - or maybe, she just forgets the words and throws in something that will fit (that panicky feeling you get, going, Oh no! I know something's coming up here that's tricky, but I don't remember what it is! Happens to me all the time when I'm practicing tricky guitar bits - I know there's something wicked coming, but can only remember that it's coming - not what to do about it, except panic and try to cover it up with something else, like a well-placed cough.) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:06:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Ola! - --- Brian Scanlan wrote: > Hallo, Joniolians. > > I've been kinda lurking here for a few weeks, just > thought I'd say > hello. I was directed to this list after a posting > to alt.music.joni-mitchell > (What a lonely and vacant newsgroup!). > that's cuz all the good stuff is happening right here! Welcome to the *real* joni discussion group - to you, and all the others who've signed up lately. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:11:31 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations In a message dated 4/17/01 11:05:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > I think she had changed it to "bridal girl" as far back as the S& I think that you are correct on this Bob--my recall (LOL--as if I have recall) is that the change is on S&L <> Yes. Sinatra had just died when I saw her at UCLA in '98 and she memorialized him--it was very touching. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:11:11 -0400 From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > <> > > Great catch, Stephen! I had forgotten that one... > I think she had changed it to "bridal girl" as far back as the S&L tour...anybody out there with better memory than me - or access to a copy of the CD? ;~) The double audio-cd package has her singing "bridal girl" Brian np: Hejira from S&L - -- "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:34:15 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations In a message dated 4/17/01 11:52:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: > Overall, the substitute phrasings always struck me as > lines from "previous drafts" of the lyrics. Those > lines that Joni always liked, but perhaps sacrificed > or changed for a phrase that dovetailed into Jaco's > bass line a little more neatly during the studio > Don, Very interesting. I am not a musician and hadn't thought of the conflict between lyrics and music. This makes a lot of sense. But I was really hoping for some really deep psychological reason ;-) Joan Baez sometimes changes the lyric for commentary. In the song Diamonds and Rust, the original lyric (referring to Dylan) was "Where are you calling from/A booth in the Midwest?". When Dylan "found" religion, she sang "Where are you calling from/A cross in the Midwest?". She now uses the original lyric. The last line of D&R is "And if you're offering me Diamonds and Rust/Well I've already paid". In recent years she has been singing "And if you're offering me Diamonds and Rust/Well I'll take the diamonds". A little humor and commentary perhaps--Joan is the first to laugh at herself. Don't know if anyone else on the list is a big fan of Baez, but thought that I would share a bit of sad news. Joan's sister, Mimi Farina, has cancer. I get the feeling that Mimi must be very ill at this time, as Joan has canceled all touring to be with her. Mimi is an extraordinary musician in her own right, and is also a wonderful humanitarian. She is the founder of "Bread and Roses", an organization that brings music into prisons, hospitals, senior centers, etc. Stephen--NP Baez Hello In There ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:22:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ola! <> Welcome, Brian! I didn't grow up on Sonic Youth, but I like their stuff a lot, I have some catching up to do with them in fact...and that's one of the STRENGTHS of this group is that we all come from different backgrounds and have different tastes & opinions. And Joni is where we all intersect (although we can have some pretty good squabbles about her as well! :~D) btw, as far as I can see, Sonic's "Hey Joni" is NOT about JM. Anyway, thanks for de-lurking and introducing yourself. Please continue to share your thoughts. Bob NP: Freedy Johnston, "Depending on the Night" PS: I can hook you up with some live stuff if you're interested... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:35:37 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations <> In the majority of these instances, Catherine, she keeps the change constant. I haven't *been* to a whole string of them, but I have heard them. Besides the aforementioned Hejira changes, some others that come to mind: - -Singing a "Dylan" version of a verse in BYT on all the '98 shows, prefacing it with "Bobby wrote this verse"... - -Singing "suckin' on a Molsson" instead of "drinking for diversion" in Raised on Robbery on the '79 and '83 shows. - -Giving the waitress in "Richard" that whiny voice, which she did in '74 and '79 when she last performed it. While the fans at the concert cheered the 'drink up, now, it's gettin' on time to close', most JMDLer's think that the humor broke the tension of the song. (Maybe that's why she did it?) - -Her inability on the BSN tour to sing "I Wish I Were In Love Again" without the lyric sheet. Like you said, she just had a mental block I think... - -Her re-voicing of Furry from "Old Furry's got nobody" to the longer blues verse she sings in live recordings. And the list goes on...it's the reason why I enjoy hearing so many live appearances! Sometimes there's constancy, and sometimes there's change... Bob NP: Rickie Lee, "Night Train" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:59:51 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations In a message dated 4/17/01 12:47:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: > Don't know if anyone else on the list is a big fan of Baez, but thought that > I would share a bit of sad news. Joan's sister, Mimi Farina, has cancer. > I > get the feeling that Mimi must be very ill at this time, as Joan has > canceled > all touring to be with her. Mimi is an extraordinary musician in her own > right, and is also a wonderful humanitarian. She is the founder of "Bread > and Roses", an organization that brings music into prisons, hospitals, > senior > centers, etc. > > I'm a Baez fan. Not a huge one, but a fan nonetheless. Oh, how very sad. My prayers are with Joan, Mimi and their families. I understand that bronchitis took a serious toll on Joan's voice and she had to cancel her show in Lancaster, PA this past fall. - -Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:54:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations no, i don't think i could relate the two men. wasn't the guy in refuge some kind of guru or shaman she visited in [i think] hawaii? i'm almost sure there was a thread on this before. anybody remember? you know,''...and i sat before his sanity...he mirrored me back simplified...'', it does look like joni [or the person in the song] went there for help. the man in coyote appears a lot more insensitive and more of a cad. i could never imagine ''coyote'' saying something like ''heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load...''. the guy's too butch for that! wallyK, coyote freak - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Martes, 17 de Abril de 2001 11:03 a.m. Para: stealth@voicenet.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: RE: Hejira lyric alterations <> You know, I'll be honest...sometimes I'm so dumb I amaze myself! I suppose that it's obvious that "Coyote" & "Friend of Spirit" are one & the same, NP: Victor Johnson, "Beneath the Silver Moon" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:19:06 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations Wally Kairuz wrote: > no, i don't think i could relate the two men. wasn't the guy in refuge some > kind of guru or shaman she visited in [i think] hawaii? i'm almost sure > there was a thread on this before. anybody remember? you know,''...and i sat > before his sanity...he mirrored me back simplified...'', You're right, Wally, he was mentioned by name and somewhat well known, I just don't remember who it was. The coyote guy was some cowboy, right? RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:39:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations to take this to a national enquire level, i always thought that coyote ''was'' sam sheppard [sp?]. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Randy Remote Enviado el: Martes, 17 de Abril de 2001 04:19 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Hejira lyric alterations You're right, Wally, he was mentioned by name and somewhat well known, I just don't remember who it was. The coyote guy was some cowboy, right? RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:47:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > to take this to a national enquire level, i always > thought that coyote > ''was'' sam sheppard [sp?]. > wallyK I dunno ... Sam Elliot (sp?) always struck me as more 'coyote' -- my mind wants to know!;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:08:25 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) In a message dated 4/17/01 7:17:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scam1@freeway.net writes: << Sue Cameron NP: Cat choking up hairball >> Sue, I have all of Joni's albums and don't recognize that song, though I've played Taming the Tiger only a couple of times. Is It from TTT or one of the tape trees? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:11:02 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations In a message dated 4/17/01 3:02:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > no, i don't think i could relate the two men. wasn't the guy in refuge some > kind of guru or shaman she visited in [i think] hawaii? i'm almost sure > there was a thread on this before. anybody remember? you know,''...and i sat > before his sanity...he mirrored me back simplified...'', it does look like > joni [or the person in the song] went there for help. the man in coyote > appears a lot more insensitive and more of a cad. i could never imagine > ''coyote'' saying something like ''heart and humor and humility will lighten > up your heavy load...''. the guy's too butch for that! > I've got to say me too, I agree with Wally, I think these were definitely two different men in Joni's life. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:45:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) - --- IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > NP: Cat choking up hairball >> > > Sue, > I have all of Joni's albums and don't recognize > that song, though I've > played Taming the Tiger only a couple of times. Is > It from TTT or one of the > tape trees? That's got to be the "alternate lyrics" to Strange Boy: "My grey tom is wheezing Cat choking up a hairball" ... that Joni changed for her host performance at the CFA National Cat Show gala opening. I'm pretty sure it's been treed -- not unlike the cat itself! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:01:32 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations I thought I read somewhere that Coyote was supposedly Neil Young... Any thoughts? Best regards, Gary Best regards, Gary Wally Kairuz wrote: > > no, i don't think i could relate the two men. wasn't the guy in refuge some > kind of guru or shaman she visited in [i think] hawaii? i'm almost sure > there was a thread on this before. anybody remember? you know,''...and i sat > before his sanity...he mirrored me back simplified...'', it does look like > joni [or the person in the song] went there for help. the man in coyote > appears a lot more insensitive and more of a cad. i could never imagine > ''coyote'' saying something like ''heart and humor and humility will lighten > up your heavy load...''. the guy's too butch for that! > wallyK, coyote freak > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Enviado el: Martes, 17 de Abril de 2001 11:03 a.m. > Para: stealth@voicenet.com; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: RE: Hejira lyric alterations > > < The Roads. I just always connected them, >> > > You know, I'll be honest...sometimes I'm so dumb I amaze myself! I suppose > that it's obvious that "Coyote" & "Friend of Spirit" are one & the same, > NP: Victor Johnson, "Beneath the Silver Moon" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:14:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) positively in stitches!!!!!!!! LOL LOL LOL wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Don Rowe Enviado el: Martes, 17 de Abril de 2001 05:45 p.m. Para: IVPAUL42@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) That's got to be the "alternate lyrics" to Strange Boy: "My grey tom is wheezing Cat choking up a hairball" ... that Joni changed for her host performance at the CFA National Cat Show gala opening. I'm pretty sure it's been treed -- not unlike the cat itself! ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:16:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations WOW WOW WOW! sam elliot! now that's some coyote i would like to be pinned in a corner by.... sam, please don't take no! wallyK, mustache-head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. I dunno ... Sam Elliot (sp?) always struck me as more 'coyote' -- my mind wants to know!;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:30:14 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: More Jazz Takes On...(SJC) In a message dated 4/17/01 4:58:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: > NP: Cat choking up hairball >> > > > > Sue, > > I have all of Joni's albums and don't recognize > > that song, though I've > > played Taming the Tiger only a couple of times. Is > > It from TTT or one of the > > tape trees? > > That's got to be the "alternate lyrics" to Strange > Boy: > > "My grey tom is wheezing > Cat choking up a hairball" > > ... that Joni changed for her host performance at the > CFA National Cat Show gala opening. I'm pretty sure > it's been treed -- not unlike the cat itself! ;-) > > Don Rowe > I thought "Cat Choking Up Hairball" was actually a second hidden track on special promotion copies of TTT--not unlike the tin ear in the promo copies of TI. Stephen (NP: The More Things Change--Mary Chapin Carpenter) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:44:19 -0400 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations In a 1991 Interview magazine, Joni said she wrote Refuge of the Roads about Chogyam Trungpa. She says: Oh, yeah. He wee the bad boy of Zen. I wrote a song about a visit I made to him called "Refuge of the Road." I consider him one of my great teachers, even though I saw him only three times. Once I had a fifteen-minute audience with him in which we argued. He told me to quit analyzing. I told him I couldn't - I'm an artist, you know. Then he induced into me a temporary state where the concept of "I" was absent, which lasted for three days. The complete article is, of course, available on the JMDL site! > > > > no, i don't think i could relate the two men. wasn't the guy in > refuge some > > kind of guru or shaman she visited in [i think] hawaii? > - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:44:43 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations There was a discussion long ago that Coyote was possibly Peter Coyote but someone asked him about the song and he didn't take credit for the character. It's kinda silly to assign somebody to Coyote, hell, Joni could have written the song with nobody in mind. As I remember Bobbye Hall is the guy in ROTR. Joni was feeling down one day on her trip and went to go see him when he was living in Colorado. This is just from memory so don't take my word for it! :) Mark NP-Dave Matthews Band, Lillywhite Sessions "Grey Street" >In a message dated 4/17/01 3:02:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > > >> no, i don't think i could relate the two men. wasn't the guy in refuge some >> kind of guru or shaman she visited in [i think] hawaii? i'm almost sure >> there was a thread on this before. anybody remember? you know,''...and i sat >> before his sanity...he mirrored me back simplified...'', it does look like >> joni [or the person in the song] went there for help. the man in coyote >> appears a lot more insensitive and more of a cad. i could never imagine >> ''coyote'' saying something like ''heart and humor and humility will lighten >> up your heavy load...''. the guy's too butch for that! >> > >I've got to say me too, I agree with Wally, I think these were definitely two >different men in Joni's life. > >rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:43:19 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: You are the WEAKEST Link! One of the questions tonight was "What Canadian musician wrote Woodstock and Both Sides Now?" The guy didn't get know. IDIOT! :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:54:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In the majority of these instances, Catherine, she > keeps the change constant. ... > -Singing "suckin' on a Molsson" instead of "drinking > for diversion" in Raised on Robbery on the '79 and > '83 shows. > How Canadian of her! (I used to think she was singing, "drinking forty version" - somehow I figured it was a reference to a 40-ouncer of something, or maybe WD 40! ) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:57:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations - --- Gary Zack wrote: > I thought I read somewhere that Coyote was > supposedly Neil Young... > > Any thoughts? > I figured he was just some guy she picked up in a bar - -a one-night stand. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:23:09 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations I like singing strains of Joni Mitchell coming thru the swamp and cypress trees. It's always fun to make a little change to the lyric here and there to make it change with the times or place or people you are with. Paz on 4/17/01 7:48 AM, SMEBD@aol.com at SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > And of course she changes: "Listen.../Strains of Benny Goodman/Coming thru > the snow and the pinewood trees" to "Strains of person playing with her > /Coming thru the snowy trees". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:33:46 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Ola! Hi Brian And welcome to the family. Pull up an easy chair and settle in. I suggest you check out the Pink Dress Concert widely available throughout this list. I would be happy to dub it for you, but with my schedule I won't get to it till AFTER jazz fest. There are alot of nice people around here that might get it quicker for you if you want. If not contact me privatly. peace Michael (shivering in a cold front brrrrrrr) on 4/17/01 8:13 AM, Brian Scanlan at singer@redbrick.dcu.ie wrote: music, though I've never been big into Jazz, Blues... > > Anyway, the original reason why I posted to the newsgroup was that I was > looking for live recordings/footage of Joni live - The only live Joni I have > is the two tracks off the Isle of Wight DVD and the Painting With Words And > Music DVD. I prefer the 1970 performance, so I'd like to be able to hear/see > Joni of old. I've been told that here's a good place to find said > CDs/Videos... > > Any help is muchly appreciated! Thanks! :) > > Brian. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:36:29 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Request Alessandra- Welcome to the list. I also would be happy to copy for you but after the second weekend in May please, my schedule is out of control. My cousin lives in Brazil in Rio and is the music biz there. He sends me recordings that he has done every now and then. one day I hope to visit your beautiful country and like my kindred spirit ( Kakki) and I hopelessly in love with the music from Brazil. Peace Michael on 4/15/01 7:43 PM, Alessandra Augusta at alessand@openlink.com.br wrote: > Hello members of the jmdl! Glad to "meet" you all! > My name is Alessandra Augusta and I live in Brasil. Well, I am now 28 and I've > been a huge fan of Joni and her music since a dear friend of mine introduced > me to her sound/lyrics. She is just the best! > I would really be grateful if one of you guys could help me to obtain one copy > of the TapeTree#2. I've been looking for the Joni Mitchell & James Taylor BBC > concert for a while and I think this is the right place to find it, isn't it? > Thanks for you help and attention, > Alessandra ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:51:42 -0500 From: mags Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations and I like how sometimes songs which had a completely different meaning at one time in my life, now mean something else. i am having the extreme pleasure these days of discovering a lot about our joan via the tape trees. due to a bit of turmoil at work, i have to commute to another location for this week and to make the trip bearable, Bri suggested that i take the trees with me..knowing how much i love trees ;) anyway..it has been wonderful.!!! Yesterday, i heard Joni's top 12 for the first time...and got all teary when she started to play the opening chords of Two Grey Rooms...such a gorgeous soulful song.... .that was before Two Grey Rooms became what it is on Night Ride Home. To listen, to hear, to learn how she 'felt' that song to completion is so moving. I have also had the pleasure of seeing the video Painting with words...for the very first time...lots of Joni firsts lately!!! I also heard Paprika Plains for the first time thanks to Bri leaving his CD here for me. Alas I digress.....back to Painting with words.... I understand there were jmdlers there...Id love to know who was there and where you were sitting and what you thought as you sat so close to her. I was completely blown away, just watching it in my living room. I invite those of you who were there to spill, share, tell me, us what it was like. and in the spirit of what i said in the beginning of this post about how songs can change their meaning..... npimh: case of you oh yea. (for my sjp) ;) Michael Paz wrote: > I like singing strains of Joni Mitchell coming thru the swamp and cypress > trees. It's always fun to make a little change to the lyric here and there > to make it change with the times or place or people you are with. > > Paz > > on 4/17/01 7:48 AM, SMEBD@aol.com at SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > > > And of course she changes: "Listen.../Strains of Benny Goodman/Coming thru > > the snow and the pinewood trees" to "Strains of person playing with her > > /Coming thru the snowy trees". - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:57:48 -0500 From: mags Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations Catherine McKay wrote: > --.. > > > > << singing, "drinking forty version" - somehow I figured > it was a reference to a 40-ouncer of something, or > maybe WD 40! )>>> and I thought the words were "drinking for diversion" oooooops. lol. Didnt we talk about misinterpretations of words before?? mags. > > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:16:26 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Kate and CJ in Delaware SJC Hey there everyone. Tonite I had the privledge of seeing fellow JMDLers Kate and CJ perform here in Delaware. They performed very well. There was a great warmth and companionship to their music. They performed originals, added some humor into their act and performed many a great songs. Did great versions of King's "It's too Late", Gershwin's "Summertime", Indigo Girls' "Joking" "least Complicated" "Galileo" and "Closer to Fine". ANd then they performed the 'Master's' own "You turn me On I'm a Radio" and "Big Yellow Taxi." They put their own touches on the songs which turned out to be a very fun experience for all. They closed with a touching "Circle Song" by Harry Chapin. Also, months ago I had privately emailed them requesting them to play something from Hejira. Well, they didnt get to play anything from it, but the biggest treat for me was after the show ended CJ showed me her alternate acoustic guitar which she had tuned especially for Coyote. Together she and I sang the first verse of the song to each other's delight. Good luck working on the rest of the song CJ and thanks for the great night the both of you. Sincerely, Blair m. Fraipont NP: Judgement of The Moon and Stars, The Mitchell FTR PS: Mr. Gross's Daugter also stopped by to say hello:) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:21:37 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations And the producer of Louisiana Jukebox sang: "Strains of Joni Mitchell comin' though the pinewood trees." Eventually this fine rendition will come to light. Anyway, during Ken Burns' epic documentary "Jazz", there was an old jazz song that was very close to this line. I don't have my notes handy but it was very close. Anyone know it? David Lahm? Simon? Fred Simon? Jim Lamadoo Stephen said: And of course she changes: "Listen.../Strains of Benny Goodman/Coming thru the snow and the pinewood trees" to "Strains of person playing with her /Coming thru the snowy trees". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:23:02 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: ...For the Roses Hey, I have just begun to appreciate For the Roses. I know, I know, A long time Coming. But, last week when I was fortunate to meet the wonderful Mr. Gross at a school function here at the University of Delaware. We happened to discuss Mrs. Mitchell and I confessed that FTR was the hardest for me to open myself up to. WEll, tonite, it just hit me, and now I am hooked. I feel like Frank Sinatra, "that Mithcell sure has some good hits, she sure is great," realizing the beauty of things way after I should have. Also, I thus revoke my choice of "COld blue steel and Sweet Fire" as one of my choices from the "Least Favorite Joni Song" thread that was about 2 months ago. Well, everyone. carrry on. :) love blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:22:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Painting with words and music Hi Mags, Those os us who were there raved onlist for a long time afterward. I recall that we couldn't post to the list right away because we were in such a state! ;-) Current JMDL'ers and former JMDL'ers who were there include Les, Wally Breese, Phyliss, Steve Dulson, Don Sloan, Mariana McConnell, Leslie and Steve Mixon, Pearl, Jill Tamada (Clark's sister), Ken Corral, Marsha Doyle, Catherine Turley, Shari and I hope I'm not forgetting others. Some people are more prominent in the film than others. You can constantly see Wally and sometimes Don behind Joni, and there are quite a few shots of Dulson and Jill. Phyliss, Pearl and I were sitting right in front of Joni (good view but we are seldom identifiable). I sat next to Donald Freed one night and can be seen briefly next to him and the camera does a close-up on him. To me, the actual room we were in was smaller than it appears on the film, so we really up close and totally blown away. I've been promising for two years to do a "locater" of where and when JMDL'ers appear - hopefully some day I'll sit still enough to accomplish it! Some of us were there the first or second night of the taping and some were there both nights. Some of us were invited to meet Joni after the first night and we are still pinching ourselves! Kakki Mags wrote: > I have also had the pleasure of seeing the video Painting with words...for the > very first time...lots of Joni firsts lately!!! I also heard Paprika Plains for > the first time thanks to Bri leaving his CD here for me. Alas I digress.....back > to Painting with words.... I understand there were jmdlers there...Id love to > know who was there and where you were sitting and what you thought as you sat so > close to her. I was completely blown away, just watching it in my living room. I > invite those of you who were there to spill, share, tell me, us what it was like. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:21:09 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Hejira lyric alterations It's dangerous to paraphrase one so eloquent but I will 'cause it's late. In an interview, Joni was talking about an early version in which she had (roughly), "Sometimes change comes at you like a broadside accident. Maybe you ding a fender. You can pound out the dents." Obviously, the lyric changed before the studio track was finalized so maybe it's a bad example. It does show that the lyrics reveal themselves through time though. I guess she paints over what doesn't quite work yet. We are so lucky that we _get_ it. np: More Jazz Takes just finished: the Atty May set of JoniFest 2000 in New England. Fun stuff! Jim - --- Bob Muller said, - - -Her re-voicing of Furry from "Old Furry's got nobody" to the longer blues verse she sings in live recordings. And the list goes on...it's the reason why I enjoy hearing so many live appearances! Sometimes there's constancy, and sometimes there's change... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:36:38 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Hejira lyric alterations Mags, Did ya ever see an American movie called "Ghost"? Where Patrick Swayze is this guy who can't express his feelings? Your post made me think of that character. Mags said, >Yesterday, i heard Joni's top 12 for the first >time...and got all teary when she >started to play the opening chords of >Two Grey Rooms...such a gorgeous soulful >song.... .that was before Two Grey Rooms >became what it is on Night Ride Home. To >listen, to hear, to learn how she 'felt' >that song to completion is so moving. That story, that track, "Speechless" got me big time. To hear her talk about her feelings, her vulnerability, her search to deliver that song. And then she plays the track and it's..... oh God! She *MADE* IT! She finished it! I *know* what this became! It's so very, very *inside* somehow that it just chokes me up. It literally chokes me up. Yeah Mags. What *you* said. "Ditto." Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #123 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?