From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #100 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, March 27 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 100 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Kakki [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Costello and von Otter (Small Joni content) [philipf@tinet.ie] Re:Amelia [Jodcrazee@aol.com] Re: Amelia [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni's Jazz [christopher blake ] Re: How sad. [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni's Jazz [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: *Joni and smoking [christopher blake ] Re: Joni books [Catherine McKay ] Re: How sad. [mags ] RE: How sad. ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: Lesson in Survival ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: For The Roses [Catherine McKay ] Re: How sad. [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni's Jazz [Catherine McKay ] For The Roses ["Kate Bennett" ] David Crosby on Joni ["Kate Bennett" ] dinner with joni ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's Jazz [christopher blake ] Hello [Bruce Kimerer ] leaving the list [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: How sad. [Heather ] Re: dinner with joni ["Bill Pearson" ] Let these walls come tumbling down [LeslieMixon@aol.com] Definition of BIMBO ["Harp@louislynch.com" ] JONI CONTENT FROM BIG SUR [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Hello ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Let these walls come tumbling down [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] joni's jazz [BarBearUh ] Re: Hello [dsk ] Re: leaving the list ["Mark or Travis" ] Partir, c'est mourir un peu ["John van Tiel" ] Re: Partir, c'est mourir un peu ["hell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:56:21 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Kakki I have a ton of unread mail so I don't know the background but I'm sad to hear that Kakki is leaving. I won't forget her kindness to me and little thnigs that she dosen't even remember, like welcome back notes after I had been silent for a long time. The list won't be the same. Wait a minute - who's going to defend the Tom Scott years now ? Sorry Kakki, you can't leave. Us FTR folks need you. Looking forward to your next post Kakki. BTW when are you coming over to visit Tory ? . Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:57:24 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Costello and von Otter (Small Joni content) - ----- Original Message ----- From: > > Sadly no Joni tracks on the album although only 18 of the 27 recorded tracks made it. Perhaps there is an unreleased Joni item in there = wishful thinking? > I heard Elvis on his radio show saying that they considered doing a Joni tune but in a way I'm glad they didn't. To me Otter sounds sterile and overbearing. Her misreading of Kate McGarrigle's Go Leave.is almost laughable. It's a quiet heartbroken kind of song but Otter gives it a Shirley Bassey treatment. What was Elvis thinking. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 07:40:14 EST From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: Re:Amelia call me ignorant but what does the IMHO before "Amelia" stand for? I know I am going to kick myself ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 07:46:19 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Amelia In a message dated 3/26/01 7:45:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jodcrazee@aol.com writes: << call me ignorant but what does the IMHO before "Amelia" stand for? I know I am going to kick myself >> Internet acronym for In MY Humble Opinion ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 05:20:13 -0800 (PST) From: christopher blake Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz - --- Garret wrote: > In the tradition of "top five lists (but why limit > it to five", i have a > question: > What are your favourite jazz or jazz-y Joni > tracks??? > and why? > GARRET > > NP- God Must be a Boogie Man (from S&L) hi garret...here goes: 5. dry cleaner from des moine 4. god must be a boogie man 3. twisted 2. goodbye pork pie hat 1. furry sings the blues i chose 'furry' no. 1 because of the lyrics and because of its "billie holiday" blues/jazz quality. have an awesome day. christopher Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:25:42 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: How sad. mags wrote: > > feeling a bit speechless on this one... there has been just so much sad news > on my doorstep lately, I dont know what to say. I know I do need to say > something...oh Kakki, know I will miss you, one of our Ladies of the > Canyon, take good care of yourself and know that the door is always open. > Both Brian and I hope you will come back. You have our support and love. > Always.... Me, too, Kakki. How could you leave ? If the list has brought you pain, remember all the good you do for many members who have looked to you judgment and sense of fair play over the years. It just won't ever be the same........ Sad Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:45:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz <> I'll take a stab at it as well...good question Garrett! #1. Sweet Sucker Dance - features her best pure singing to date. #2. Trouble Man (Kyle Eastwood's 'From There to Here') - it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing, and Joni swings on this one! #3. Summertime (Herbie Hancock's 'Gershwin's World) - Again, for the singing and the luscious instrumentation. If only BSN had begun to approach the quality of this one... #4. The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey - A very haunting song, it stops me in my tracks every time and I have to listen to it more than once. It still amazes me that Marian can play this one dead on! #5. Harry's House/Centerpiece - Again, an intriguing song. The way she weaves Centerpiece into the tapestry of the lyric is genius...HOSL flows so seamlessly it's almost hard to pick out one track. Only 5!?! Damn! I can't mention anything from the also-seamless Court & Spark, or Paprika Plains, or Barangrill, or Harlem in Havana...I take it back, Garrett...this is a TORMENTING question! ;~) Bob NP: Golden Smog, "Radio King" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:10:41 -0800 (PST) From: christopher blake Subject: RE: *Joni and smoking - --- patrick leader wrote: > ashara, i think you're right, joni didn't smoke at > that show. i think she > did at the msg theater show i saw a couple of days > earlier. > > in the 98 fall tour, she always smoked during 'comes > love'. made an event > out of it. > > patrick, still remembering the joy of seeing joni > from the second row. > probably because i'm a dancer, i'm very twitchy and > movey even while sitting > listening to music. when joni looked down and saw > me bopping in my seat to > 'sometimes i'm happy', she gave me the biggest > smile, and smiled my way a > couple more times. i even think she forgave me for > flirting with that > cellist on the right... > > what a magnificent evening. > > np - handel - l'allegro, il penseroso ed il > moderato. > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com > [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > >AsharaJM@aol.com > >Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:34 PM > >To: nymets69_2001@yahoo.com; joni@smoe.org > >Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking > > > > > >Christopher wrote: > > > >> my joni BSN show was the oakdale theater in > >> wallingford, ct (anyone else?). no sight of joni > >> smoking and i was close to her - so close... :) > >> > > > >I was in the second row center in CT with many of > my JMDL buddies > >including > >our dear Kenny, may he rest in peace, and I seem to > remember saying to > >Patrick that it was amazing that she didn't smoke > at all through the whole > >thing!! (Patrick, am I remembering that right, or > is old age > >quickly seeping > >through?) Anyway, too bad we didn't know you then, > Christopher! You could > >have joined us for a great evening of dinner and > show!! :-) > > > >Hugs, > >Ashara > > > hi patrick, you mentioned the cellist at the wallingford BSN show. i am acquainted with the bass player for the HSO. perhaps i may be of service? - - have an awesome day! christopher Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:43:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni books At 8:39 PM -0600 3/23/01, kerry wrote: > >This may have been discussed before, but I was > checking out Amazon's Joni > >stuff and they listed 2 books: "Joni Mitchell > Complete", vols. 1 & 2, due to > >be published this month. Is this just an updated > version of "Complete Poems > >& Lyrics?" > - --- Mark Domyancich wrote:> > This is two book guitar anthology. More info can be > found at: > http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/songbooks.cfm > I noticed the "complete" vols 1 & 2 as well and e-mailed Amazon for more info. unfortunately they weren't able to provide much - they just provide what the publisher gives to them which, in this case, was very little. I wanted to know whether this was reprints of previously released music books that I already have - vol 1 contains the songs from the first 3 (STAS, Clouds, LOTC); vol 2 has the next 3 (Blue, FTR, C&S). They couldn't tell me. i was hoping for something that truly was COMPLETE. Durn, I want something with Hejira and so on (but let's face it, most of these books contain few, if any, real Joni-tunings and you can get these through the jmdl website in any case). Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:59:17 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: How sad. Catherine Udall Turley wrote: > < excuse for thoughtlessness or a lack of restraint. > > I don't know the particulars of what's up with Kakki, and I agree that > it was her personal decision to leave, but when someone who has been so > generous both with the larger community and with dozens of individual > listers, someone who, IMO, has been as fair and accepting and balanced > as anybody else on the list--when somebody like her just can't take it > anymore, then I'd say its not her problem alone. > > I'm profoundly sorry she has gone. Feels like someone leeched the light > out of the room.>>> and now me: > Thank you for this most insightful post Catherine. I feel that the > situation which has been and continues to brew is definitely our > collective problem. I ask all of you, is it not our responsibility as > members of this warm, loving, caring community to sit up and take notice > that there IS something we can do? This whole thing can be perceived as a > great big wake up call, an opportunity to effect change before the walls > come tumbling down around us. Yes, people do make their own decisions to > leave, but the question at the end of the day is why? A great big > resounding why? > Perhaps now is not time to be in our heads by trying to analyze this from > a rational thinking place, but rather, from the tender place deep inside > our hearts. In my heart, I know that many, many people here love our dear > Kakki, our sister and our friend. We will miss her terribly. > Now that Ashara is feeling the way she is, well what are we going to do > about it? Imagine Ashara leaving too. It is with great pain and sadness > that I contemplate that possibility. I know I am not going to sit back > and say nothing and just let that happen. No way. Mags, really struggling with this situation this morning. - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:45:11 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: How sad. Thinking about the number of people who I've seen write anything contentious of late lead me to do some bistro maths. I came to the following conclusion:- For each person who writes something that causes someone about think of leaving the list, there's probably something like a hundred other people who would rather that particular someone *didn't* leave. I hope that this can be viewed as a positive motivating factor for people to stay. OK, so the numbers aren't exact, but the orders of magnitude are. Please stay, folks. Please. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:53:16 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Lesson in Survival Do you own Wyclef's The Carnival? IMO One of the best hip-hop, rap, rock albums in the past ten years. If you like Ecleftic, you will love this album. A masterpiece! >From: IVPAUL42@aol.com >Reply-To: IVPAUL42@aol.com >To: MGVal@aol.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Lesson in Survival >Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 06:27:50 EST > >In a message dated 3/24/01 6:20:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, MGVal@aol.com >writes: > ><< That's one thing that makes me feel sad about today's young market >music. >I > don't see anything that's out there that inspires kids to keep on the > headphones, study the lyrics and find a beacon in the darkness. But then > again, I don't know the words to ALL of the Brittany Spears songs. (:-D > >> > >You're wasting time on Britney, MG, but you oughta try out Wyclef Jean's >"Ecleftic" CD. >My younger fiancee turned me on to him and after several listens I'm >finding >there is some genius in his lyrics. "Perfect Gentleman," "Diallo" and >several >others. Even an interesting cover of Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here." >My 8-year-old son now even asks to listen to Ecleftic instead of N'Sync! > >Paul I _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:05:44 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz In a message dated 3/26/01 8:52:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << #3. Summertime (Herbie Hancock's 'Gershwin's World) - Again, for the singing and the luscious instrumentation. If only BSN had begun to approach the quality of this one... >> Having heard several other recently released versions of "Summertime," including Peter Gabriel and others (not just comparing to the old Janis Joplin cover), as well as Joni's while driving with my son on our Spring Break trip last week, I have to say that I think Joni's version is lifeless. Considering what a great job she does on "Trouble Man" and some of her other more recent covers in that vein, I was very disapointed in her "Summertime." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:50:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Dinner with Joni Rick wrote: She has a table for six -- you are one of the guests, who would be the other four and why? By the way, Joni is picking up the check... My husband, my son, her daughter, & a date of her choice. Afterwards we would go play music. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:19:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: For The Roses Scott, that was eloquently written, and Kakki, if you're reading, I hope you don't stay away. You are a valuable part of this list and it would not be the same without you. Be well. - --- Scott Price wrote: > It starts with a web search. "Joni Mitchell." You > sift through the hits and > before long find the Mecca. Joni-Mitchell-dot-com > and JMDL-dot-com. .... > It is with much sadness that I announce to the list > that Kakki has left > this "community." She departed with her customary > grace and without > fanfare. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:28:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: How sad. - --- Catherine Udall Turley wrote: > Quite awhile ago (a couple years, maybe) JulieZWebb, > who hosted one of > the first in-person Joni fests, posted a long > insightful account of the > psychological logistics of hosting a list > get-together. How there were > egos to be negotiated and list squabbles to remember > and sort out, > people to keep separated, etc. At the time I read > that post, I was > fairly new to the list and thought it sounded overly > complicated and > pessimistic. Now that I've hung around long enough, > I think she was > right on the money. The list can be a fantastic > place to be, and it can > also be quite complicated and perilous. And thats > not a problem unique > to this list-- it is part of the cyber beast Not just part of the cyber beast, darlin'! It's part of being family! The last time our family tried negotiating Christmas, it was fraught with peril! And we *know* each other! (ha!) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:31:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < tracks??? and why?>> > > I'll take a stab at it as well...good question > Garrett! > > #1. Sweet Sucker Dance - features her best pure > singing to date. etc. A while back, the question came up: what is folk? Now I need to ask, What is jazz? esp. as relates to Joni? Where does jazz begin? Where does it end? You could say everything on "Mingus" is jazz. But what about the rest of it? To me, "Hissing" is jazz. Most of it. Maybe all of it. But why? Sages of jazz, answer me do. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:25:40 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: For The Roses all i can say is me too. wally wrote >>>kakki dearest,i am so sad to hear that you have decided to leave the list. i respect your decision but i can't help feeling extremely sorry that i won't be enjoying your intelligence and humor anymore. your absence will be felt, i can assure you. couldn't you possibly reconsider your decision?<<<.******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:57:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: David Crosby on Joni Another Joni quote by David Crosby from a recent show: >>>He also joked about how he doesn't normally play other people's songs "because of his huge ego" but that there were some artists that were better than him and "I hate to break it to you guys, but one of them is a girl" and then played Joni's Real Good For Free.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:59:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: dinner with joni I forgot to mention, on my dinner with joni, although i don't smoke anymore, i think i would bum one of her american spirits & have a smoke with her after dinner! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:42:49 -0800 (PST) From: christopher blake Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > < > tracks??? and why?>> > > > > I'll take a stab at it as well...good question > > Garrett! > > > > #1. Sweet Sucker Dance - features her best pure > > singing to date. > > etc. > > A while back, the question came up: what is folk? > Now I need to ask, What is jazz? esp. as relates to > Joni? Where does jazz begin? Where does it end? > You > could say everything on "Mingus" is jazz. But what > about the rest of it? To me, "Hissing" is jazz. > Most > of it. Maybe all of it. But why? Sages of jazz, > answer me do. > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca hi catherine. some friends of mine studied at berkeley school of music in boston. the school was loaded with jazz players and fanatics all of whom seemed troubled by my definition of jazz: rock with mistakes. peace to ya - christopher. Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:49:31 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: Hello Greetings I have just discovered this site and its discussion area. Have read the posts for the past couple days and now am seeing how the posting thing works. (Will be curious to see if my message appears in the list of posts I get tomorrow.) (Question: How do you guys quote previous messages in your own? Cut and paste?) I have been a JM fan since Ladies of the Canyon, though I tuned out after Mingus, then got distracted and missed her work of the 80s, and only returned to listening with Turbulent Indigo. That return sent me back into the older material. In looking at the poll results for albums and songs, I was sorta surprised where Don Juan ended up on the list -- and how low Paprika Plains was postioned. Which leads me to my question: Were the unsung lyrics to Paprika Plains that were printed with the album ever intended to be sung? And, if so, were they ever performed in concert? Unfortunately, I have never seen JM in performance. Has she ever performed Paprika Plains? Though at the time of its release I didn't care much for PP, I now think it brilliant and beautiful and very moving. In fact, I wish JM had followed the 'symphonic' muse evidenced in PP a little further. I was sort of hoping the orchestral arrangements on Both Sides Now would continue the sweeping originality of PP, but I was disappointed. Any answers to my PP questions would be greatly appreciated. Bruce (And what does that 'np' mean that people use to list a song at the end of ther posts?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:47:38 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: leaving the list Dear Kakki, There have been a few times when I, too, have considered leaving the list. Unwarranted meanness often flares up, and that never fails to make my blood boil. Since I hate being angry, and it seems so absurd to carry around negative feelings caused by people I've never even met, leaving the list can make a lot of sense. I respect your decision, and whether you are gone for good or just taking a hiatus, I sincerely wish you all the best. We know that there is no inner circle, but there is a wonderful core of JMDLers whose frequent contributions make the list the lively, informative, welcoming, and engaging place that it is. I know I'm leaving out a few names here, but you, Ashara, Bob Muller, Paz, Jimmy, Wally, and, of course, Les all immediately come to mind as people who make the extra effort to ensure that the list is a daily source of caring, humor, and insight. The loss of any one of you would be catastrophic to the JMDL, so I sincerely hope to see you back again soon. I joined the list last May because I had some extra tickets to Joni's Boston concert to sell. I never expected to become a part of any online community, especially a fan list, because it's just not the kind of thing I would usually do. But I have remained on the list because I have more often than not enjoyed my time here immensely. I hope it will continue to be the incredible haven in cyberspace that it has been. But as Joni says, everything comes and goes . . . so if it begins to look as though the best parts of the JMDL are in the past, then I wouldn't hesitate to leave, either. You will be in my thoughts, Kakki. And remember, if you're ever in my neck of the woods, you'll never need a hotel. Take care, --Bob P. S. This was originally meant to be a private e-mail to you, Kakki, but I think it's important to share these thoughts with the JMDL community. I hope you don't mind. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:55:09 -0500 From: Heather Subject: RE: How sad. I will miss you Kakki. Take care. If you want to come back, there are plenty of open arms for you here on the JMDL. Most sincerely, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:51:48 +0100 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: dinner with joni > From: "Kate Bennett" > > I forgot to mention, on my dinner with joni, although i don't smoke anymore, > i think i would bum one of her american spirits & have a smoke with her > after dinner! I hate one line answers so I'm trying to stretch this out :) Kate - you made me laugh out loud at that one - nice ! As Colin said ealier, I too have missed some messages along the way. Is it a UK thing, that ole time zone getting in the way? Kakki - if you're still out there I'll miss your posts too - count to 10 and come back Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:45:23 EST From: LeslieMixon@aol.com Subject: Let these walls come tumbling down I can only imagine how Wally would feel if he'd been here to read the posts of the last few days. Wally was a big fan of Laura Nyro who wrote, "We can build the dream with love..." Wally and Les both built their sites to share the wealth, beauty and love that is the art of Joni Mitchell. I know that I am one of a large group who using a search engine for the first time, typed in, "Joni Mitchell." This group does not include Bob Mueller who had other things on his mind when he first logged on to the internet :-) Our internet community, for me, has always been a sacred space, a special place, if you will. A place where people understood, supported and appreciated my enthusiasm for all things "Joni." Meeting other people who share this passion, including Kakki and Ashara, was like finding an oasis in the desert. "We've got to get ourselves back to the garden." "You and me, we're like America and Russia We're always keeping score We're always balancing the power And that can get to be a cold cold war We're going to have to hold ourselves a peace talk In some neutral cafe..." "Anyone will tell you, just how hard it is to make and keep a friend..." "Lay down your arms..." Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:17:53 -0500 From: "Harp@louislynch.com" Subject: Definition of BIMBO Jerry, How dare you try to tell me or anyone else the word BIMBO is sexist? You're dead wrong, buddy. And Marcel's calling Julia Roberts a "bimbo" is no more sexist than the New York Times calling her "giddy." Before you automatically accuse someone of using a "sexist" word, you ought to learn what the word means. It's an Italian word, and it applies to both men and women. In fact, it is used more often for men than it is for women. Remember, Italian guys aren't fast to insult women, but they'll call each other names in a hurry. My old boss at the pizzeria I worked when I was 16 used to call us guys bimbos if we did something wrong. I never heard Tony call a woman that name, or any other name actually. It used to be a very common word in sports, particularly baseball. I also remember a high school wrestling coach saying, "OK you bimbos, let's...." Or haven't you ever read the New York Post sports pages? The word's Italian, it's a shortened form of "Bambino" (baby). When applied to people, it means "dummy," "childish one," or "buffoon." Note that the word is BIMBO, not BIMBA. It's a masculine tern. I looked it up just to be sure. According to Webster, the first definition is MAN, then woman!!!!! Perhaps you're thinking of the recent term "blonde bimbo," which does have a sexist turn to it. But bimbos have been around a lot longer than blonde jokes. Marcel's post about the Oscars was meant to be witty! Please, people, lighten up! Ciao! Harper Lou - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "louis.lynch" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:22 AM Subject: Re: NJC: Oscar Night Post Mortem (md) > "louis.lynch" wrote: > > > Ashara, > > > > With all due respects, Marcel was writing about the Oscars in jest. He has written humorous "reviews" like this before, and I personally find them entertaining. Let's face it, even the Associated Press referred to Julia Roberts' behavior as "giddy." > > Maybe you don't see the difference between giddy and bimbo, but one is definitely sexist and insulting. To "review" a woman who has reached the pinnacle of power in Hollywood, a "man's" town for sure, is to reduce the significance of her achievements. Does Marcel have the right to? Of course. Does he also put himself in a position of critical comment? Of course. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:37:08 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: JONI CONTENT FROM BIG SUR The first song that Joni sings in the video Celebration at Big Sur is, of all things, "Get Together" the Youngbloods song, written by Jesse Collin Young or something like that; will someone correct me? this a close paraphrase as I play Joni's version off the tape with the words she sings as opposed to the textus receptus as I know it. (I made the chorus more inclusive, but I did that at confirmation camp back in the 1980s, so nothing new, actually, I have no brother, so I needed a way to sing it that was real for me) Love is but a song we sing, fear's the way we die you can make the mountain rings, or make the angels cry know the bird is on the wing, although we don't know why if you hear the song I sing, then you will understand you hold the key to love and hate, in your tremebling hand one key unlocks them both, you know, that key's at your command Some may come and some may go*, we shall surely pass when the one who left us here returns for us at last, we are but a moment's sunshine, fading on the grass, Come on people now, smile on each other, everybody get together, try and love one another right now. *it actually sounds as if she is singing "soldiers dying and _____ and all, we shall surely pass" but I can't extract the exact words, so I show the standard text. In short: we hold the keys, it is for us to choose our reactions. Nobody wrote something that ***made*** me upset; I chose to get upset. I could have chosen to ignore, to laugh, to say how silly, but I chose to be upset. I may have good reasons or valid life experiuence to choose the option of being upset in this situation, and I claim and own that. So I step back for a time that I need that is important to me; I do not leave this community that loves and cares and gives to each other even though I am upset, because as I step back, I can own my anger and also own my membership with precious and dear people. They are not all equally precious and dear, but as a community, there is none finer, and I need this community for how it defines a part of my life, for what it has given, and because I will hurt myself or others by leaving these people dear to me. I hold the key. At this time, I have chosen to retreat for a bit, but not leave. I await the time that is good for me to fully re-enter, Understand that my standing off to the side is my way of working through the things that I need to work on, which may be,getting back in touch with how wonderful you are all despite our not being perfect, how wonderful *we* all are when we smile on each other, love one another. (the Rev) Vince now shutting up for good ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:34:56 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Hello Welcome to the JMDL list Bruce! You'll find there can be fun, invigorating discussions about all kinds of things from Joni to Mozart to pondering the very meaning of life itself. To post parts of previous messages in one of your own, you can simply reply to the sender and it will automatically include the former post ( or as you say, cut and post...) As for Paprika Plains, I'll be performing it in its entirity at the next Joni Fest in Topsfield (just kidding...see Marcel's review of jonifest 2000.) I can't answer the other questions though I am sure there is someone who can and will. Victor NP:(now playing) Joni-For the Roses Ludwig's Tune Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 20:57:16 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Let these walls come tumbling down << This group does not include Bob Mueller who had other things on his mind when he first logged on to the internet :-) >> Great post, Leslie...especially the brilliant quote from Blue Motel Room, which I had the privelige of discussing with SIQUOMB herself! She said it was dated, and I told her that that's what makes a song a STANDARD! You make me damn proud that EVENTUALLY I got around to typing "Joni Mitchell" in that search engine! :~D Love you, sweetie! Bob NP: Loggins & Messina, "Nobody But You" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:33:27 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: joni's jazz 1. S&L "black crow" live 2. 'coast to coast' live version of 'furry sings the blues' 3. blue motel room 4. dry cleaner from des moines 5. recent live version of "moon at the window" and chaka khan chaka khan chaka khan barbara np: chris whitley PS gotta agree with Paul I on lackluster "summertime" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:40:45 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Hello Bruce Kimerer wrote: > I have just discovered this site and its discussion area. Have read the > posts for the past couple days and now am seeing how the posting thing > works. (Will be curious to see if my message appears in the list of > posts I get tomorrow.) Welcome, Bruce, to your new Joni adventure! I remember, too, first joining a couple of years ago and wondering how it all worked and finding it so strange to try to talk to hundreds of people at the same time. A discussion list was a brand new experience for me and perhaps it is for you too. So kudos to you for jumping right in! > (Question: How do you guys quote previous messages in your own? Cut and > paste?) It depends on which type of list you've signed up for. If you're receiving individual messages, you can set up your mail preferences so that when you press Reply the message you're replying to is automatically quoted, and then you can delete the unneeded parts of the message and only leave the part you're responding to (people receiving digests would greatly appreciate that). To do that in Netscape, select Edit from the top toolbar and go from there. It's probably a similar process for Outlook. If you need more info, please let us know. If you're receiving messages in digest form, then I think you do need to cut and paste. I've never received messages in digest form, so other people may be able to give you some details about that if you still have questions. > I have been a JM fan since Ladies of the Canyon, though I tuned out > after Mingus, then got distracted and missed her work of the 80s, and > only returned to listening with Turbulent Indigo. That return sent me > back into the older material. LOTC is the first album I heard also, given to me in the early 70s by my first boyfriend. It captured me right away. He did too but Joni's the one that's still with me after all these years, and since then I've eagerly awaited each new album, always with the excitement of "I wonder what Joni's doing now". My enthusiasm flagged somewhat during the 80s, I'll admit, even though I continued to buy her cds, but it returned as soon as I heard Night Ride Home. Have you heard that one yet? > In looking at the poll results for albums and songs, I was sorta > surprised where Don Juan ended up on the list -- and how low Paprika > Plains was postioned. Which leads me to my question: Were the unsung > lyrics to Paprika Plains that were printed with the album ever intended > to be sung? And, if so, were they ever performed in concert? As far as I know she's never performed Paprika Plains, but my knowledge about it is limited so I may be wrong about that. There's an efficient search engine on the jmdl.com site that would find every mention of PP if you do a search, in which case you may be able to tell us the answers to the interesting questions you've asked. If you've already done that and not found your answers, maybe someone more knowledgeable about PP than I am will speak up. > (And what does that 'np' mean that people use to list a song at the end > of ther posts?) It means "now playing" and is one way we find out about new music and learn a little more about our fellow listers. Sometimes you'll see NPIMH, which means "now playing in my head". You haven't asked so perhaps you know this already, but a usual question asked by people who have just joined the list is "what is SIQUOMB?", which you may see in a phrase like "she's so siquomb, isn't she?" (and we all automatically nod our heads yes :-). It's an acronym from a mythology she wrote long ago, and stands for "she is queen undisputed of mind beauty". Hmmm, I think I've got that right. If not, someone will let me know. So, again, Welcome! There's a brief flurry of bickering on the list now, which happens once in a while, usually after a period of humor, kindness, generosity and much good will among list members, and almost always passes rather quickly. The good spirit will return soon I'm sure and your questions about Paprika Plains will probably help us get back on track. Enjoy! atb, Debra Shea P.S. One other thing, which again you may know but just in case you don't... Since there are people on the list who want to receive ONLY messages with Joni content, include NJC in the subject heading if your message has No Joni Content. You'll find that many things are discussed here, usually starting with Joni and always returning to her eventually. In between there are some interesting wanderings. You'll see. :-) NP: local tv news, in one ear and out the other ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:35:55 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: leaving the list I hate to see Kakki go. I have been fortunate enough to meet her and have been a guest in her home. She is a gracious, intelligent and engaging human being & I am very fond of her. Kakki, if you read this, please stay in touch. I have learned many things from being on this list. Kakki is someone I have learned a great deal from. One lesson she has taught me (or reinforced) is never to make assumptions about people or generalizations about groups of people. So, Kakki, I make no assumptions about your decision to leave us. I feel I know you well enough and respect your intelligence & judgment enough to know that you have good, valid reasons for doing so. I hope you're just taking a break & will return. If not, again, please stay in touch. I have always said that my philosophy about people who seem to take some kind of perverse pleasure in being nasty and demeaning is to ignore them. Don't let them push your buttons. Deny them the attention they obviously want. But then I have never been the victim of many abusive private posts. One or two here & there, but never the kind of volume that would be considered annoying or alarming. I imagine it would be hard to completely ignore it if it were constant & of an abusive nature. Most of us come to this list expecting it to be a positive place to share our thoughts & feelings with kindred spirits. If we get to the point where we don't feel that the list is a positive place for doing that anymore, then why stay? I enjoy a good joke as much as the next person and if any of you were to see me in my own element, with my circle of close friends where I feel completely at ease you would see that my sense of humor has more than a bit of vinegar in it. For that reason, I *usually* refrain from making jokes on this list. Email communication is very tricky. Through the JMDL and the large volume of emailing I do at work, I feel I have learned a thing or two about it. It is *so easy* to misinterpret something in an email. As the Rev Vince pointed out so well, you can't email a facial expression or a vocal inflection. Sarcasm almost never comes off well in an email. There's always someone who will take you seriously or even if they don't, will not appreciate the humor. We are a diverse group. Different backgrounds, nationalities, cultures, religions, sexual preference - it can be very hard not to step on someone's toes if we are not very careful with how we communicate. I certainly don't want to censor anybody. But in view of the difficulty of communicating clearly in this medium, is it really asking too much that people try to refrain from demeaning & belittling remarks? Is that really too much to ask? That we treat each other with respect and leave the sniping & sarcasm out of it? Believe me, there have been times when I have read posts on the JMDL that have made me seethe and want to spit out expletives and all kinds of scathing comments. But what would that accomplish in the end? It would probably upset most of the good people on this list (and there are *so many* of you out there!) and cause a lot of unnecessary damage. I certainly don't mean to say that we can't have fun here. I can be as silly as the next person and a well-intentioned jibe here & there is not a bad thing. But unless you're absolutely certain that the jest will be received in the spirit you intended then I say reconsider. And if something makes you angry, don't shoot off a hot-headed reply. Do something else, wait a day or listen to some Joni. Then if you still feel compelled to reply, maybe you can do so with a cooler head. Usually your point comes across much more clearly and effectively. Ok, I'm done. Sorry if this sounds like a sermon, but I felt I had to say something if for no other reason than to let Kakki know I miss her & support her. Maybe I don't always *agree* with her, but I always respect her & look forward to reading anything that appears when I see her name in my inbox. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:54:37 +0200 From: "John van Tiel" Subject: Partir, c'est mourir un peu Early morning in Holland ... sun rising over the sea. Seven digests still unread. I start with the first one, thinking "I hope there won't be too much bickering". Then: Kakki has decided to leave the list. First thought: this cannot be true, this cannot be true. More posts ... 'Kakki, please return', 'Let's take a deep breath and ...', 'Please be tolerant'. Kakki's decision brings out the eloquence in many. I think again: Kakki? The very person who knows that fine line between eloquence and loquaciousness, always opting for the first one. The person whose posts have always been the nucleus of the list for me personally. One of the persons for whom I crossed the Atlantic Ocean a few times (yes, Kakki, just to meet you (again)) ... the one with whom I sang "Here, There and Everywhere" to the sounds of crickets and chiggers gnawing at her legs late at night on Ashara's porch ... the woman with the intelligent eyes that light up with laughter and happiness every 3.4 seconds ... never without a Martini glass in her hand, but never drinking too much either (see, that's another thing you still need to teach me) ... the woman I admire for her guts and her energy ... who DOES look cool when she smokes (BTW, I will not respond to any comments on this remark ;-) ) ... Kakki, who sends me pictures and music that I treasure ... the woman who epitomizes the Irish spirit I love so much ... the one who & whom etc. etc. etc. Kakki, you simply canNOT leave this list. Listen to your Dutch Uncle: you simply canNOT leave this list ! And then Ashara: "move over Kakki...". Ashara ... please?! What IS going on here ??? Geez. I have been on this list almost from the very start. So have Kakki and Ashara. I lurk ('stand in the wings'), they don't. I share off-list. They share off-list AND on-list. Perhaps I have a right to speak for the long-term lurkers: The JMDL is so great because you and Ashara and Marcel and Bob and Paz and Hell and Patrick and Catherine (plural) and Jerry and Harper-Lou and Colin and Penny and Vince and Leslie and Mark and Jim and Steve and Mary-Grace and Wally and Kate and Mags and Brett and Alison and Jan and Lory and Marian and Ric and Robert and Paul and Heather and Victor and Garret and Lahm and Randy and Rose and Steve and Barbara and many many many others do not lurk. You share. You have the guts to share in a public forum. Believe me, it takes guts. Ask the average lurker (off-list). Kakki, "Lazarus" is the Dutch word for stone drunk. I'd rather you do the biblical bit. Have a Martini and rise. From the coast of Holland, John NP. Mathilde Santing: Here, There and Everywhere ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:56:08 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Partir, c'est mourir un peu John wrote: > Early morning in Holland ... sun rising over the sea. Your whole post was beautifully written, John - much better than I ever could. Thank you. And then I also read: >Kakki's decision brings out the eloquence in many This to me is the greatest irony of all. We all bitch and snipe at each other for a while, then someone actually reacts in a tangible way. Why does it take this kind of extreme reaction to make everyone pull their heads in! I liked this list much better when Kakki was a part of it - I also hope that her decision is not final, but if it is, Kakki, I hope you stay in touch. And maybe Joni was actually writing about this discussion list when she wrote: This is really something People will be envious But our roles aren't clear So we musn't rush Still, we're burning brightly Clinging like fire to fuel I'm grinning like a fool Stay in touch We should stay in touch Oh! Stay in touch In touch Part of this is permanent Part of this is passing So we must be loyal and wary Not to give away too much Til we build a firm foundation And empty out old habits Old habits Stay in touch We should stay in touch Oh! Stay in touch In touch During times like these The wise or influential They can bear the imperfections They can keep the honey No doubt about it No doubt that's essential No doubt that's always been a tricky one for me So, we should just surrender Let fate and duty shape us Let light hearts make us Let the worries hush In the middle of this continent In the middle of our time on Earth We receive one another Stay in touch We should stay in touch Oh! Stay in touch In touch Thank you, Joni. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #100 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?