From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #91 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, March 20 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 091 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Information on the 4th "Annual" New England JoniFest: http://www.jmdl.com/jfne2001.cfm The Joni Chat Room: http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Metheny solo on S&L (VLJC) ["James L. Leonard" ] Living in and Understanding Communities [Gordon Mackie ] Both Sides *No* video (DVD)? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Edith and the Kingpin ["cassy" ] False alarm [Jennymac48@aol.com] Re: Edith and the Kingpin [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Edith and the Kingpin [Artheobeat@aol.com] Re: Edith and the Kingpin [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Edith and The Kingpin [Catherine McKay ] Edith & The Kingpin ["Paul Castle" ] Re: False alarm [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Lahm's new one [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] most removed from Joni [Jodcrazee@aol.com] Fwd: False alarm [Kammass@aol.com] Re: Edith and the Kingpin [Ian Cropton ] Re: Lahm's new one [Randy Remote ] Re: Fwd: False alarm ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Edith and the Kingpin [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: *Joni and smoking [Jerry Notaro ] Re: *Joni and smoking [susan+rick ] Re: *Joni and smoking ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Edith and the Kingpin [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] mistaken identity [Jodcrazee@aol.com] byt remix favorite [christopher blake ] another joni cover by p.m. dawn? [jop ] Re: another joni cover by p.m. dawn? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: *Joni and smoking [Ian Cropton ] Re: *Joni and smoking [Alison E ] Re: *Joni and smoking [catman ] Re: *Joni and smoking [catman ] Re: Both Sides *No* video (DVD)? [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: *Joni and smoking [Alison E ] Shadows and Light DVD ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: *Joni and smoking (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] runaway from the record biz ["Nuriel" ] (no subject) [Jennymac48@aol.com] (no subject) [Jennymac48@aol.com] Re: *Joni and smoking [Artheobeat@aol.com] Re: runaway from the record biz [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: *Joni and smoking [MGVal@aol.com] Re: (no subject) [jan gyn ] Tolerance Marcel, tolerance :-) [Artheobeat@aol.com] Welcome back [Vince Lavieri ] joni&morrisey, LJC [Kammass@aol.com] Wilson and Alroy ["Garret" ] Re: mistaken identity [Scott Price ] Re: *Joni and smoking [catman ] RE: *Joni and smoking ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: byt remix favorite ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Living in and Understanding Communities ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:12:46 -0500 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Metheny solo on S&L (VLJC) Hi Lama, > Yeah, in retrospect, it sorta reads as a slam. I really didn't mean it that way although it's obvious that I don't "get" Metheny. That's why I see his transcendent "Amelia" as revelatory and extra= ordinary (in the dictionary meaning that it's out of the ordinary.) I've tried "Off Ramp", "American Garage", and "80/81". I know these are highly regarded albums and I'm not denigrating them. They expose a lack in my "ear". > The albums you mention, and "S&L," for that matter, were all recorded during the first five years of Metheny's now 25-year old career. If those albums are all you've heard, it's easier for me to see why you might consider the "S&L" solo to be out of the ordinary, or a case in which Metheny was playing beyond his abilities.. You may want to pick up some later albums by the Pat Metheny Group, beginning with the double live "Travels." Proceed chronologically through "First Circle," "Still Life (Talking)," "Letter From Home," and "The Road To You." Metheny's abilities (and his artistic vision) grew at a dizzying rate through the '80s. He continued to record outside the Group during these years, and still does, playing great jazz with some of the music's brightest lights ... but it's in those five Group albums I believe you'll find the way to "get" Pat. Boston Jim NP: coffee percolator, drowning out a whispering MSNBC :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:08:42 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Living in and Understanding Communities I was thinking about 'communities' whilst reading the latest posting, especially the IVPAUL / Murphycopy exchange. Obviously I've missed some previous correspondence between these two , but I couldn't understand the strength of Bob's response to what seemed to me like a relatively minor point made by Paul. I feel very uneasy about stepping into this particular fray but what one person thinks as positive is another persons negative. Joan Anderson has made that point on a number of occasions 'Amelia' (People will tell you where they've gone, they'll tell you where to go, but till you get there yourself you never really know) or 'Shadows and Light' (The perils of benefactors, the blessings of parasites) to name two. To me it doesn't matter if the bottle is half empty or half full but more about whose owns and controls the bottle factory. Our wee community is no different from any other. Different views, different expressions, difference. Diversity. Self-determination. Pass the bottle.... I'll drink to that..(hic) Gordon (Ok, ok, I overdosed on the 19th century liberalism but you get the point. Long live the Republic!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:24:07 EST From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Re: The Fonis!! hey chris is that birmingham, england? kammy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:46:29 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin In a message dated 3/19/01 11:11:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Makes me wonder if the Kingpin is really in control of the situation or if > it's more of a co-dependency. Are the bars in her head those of > incarceration? > > I always that line referred to her fear to move out of the situation. (her own self made prison) Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:57:36 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Edith and The Kingpin It is interesting how much our (my) initial interpretation of a song is based on what I've read in the media and (up to HOSL at least) the expectation that her songs were mainly self-confessional. In 'my' mental movie of the song Warren Beatty plays the role of The Kingpin and Joni plays Edith. I see the big Hollywood star - The Kingpin - arriving at a small town theatre to see Edith play a concert - he's met outside by models and photographers, with bodyguards holding back sophomore kids, all swooning, hyped up by his media playboy image (victims of typewriters). Then Edith's on stage, trying to concentrate (the band sounds like typewriters) and The Kingpin's in the front row staring at her intently - flirtatiously - but not really listening to the music, holding his hands together tightly, anticipating the night of love (lust) ahead. After the show, at the backstage party, everyone surrounds them - the centre of attention - the ring - Edith can see the model girls whispering and gossipping out of the corner of her eye as he 'purrs' his praise on her - as they are parted by the crush of the party - one by one - the model girls push forward to whisper stories of his legendary playboy exploits to her, with challenging, bitchy smiles. Meanwhile, in true playboy style, he's idly checking out the other women in the room. Later that night in the hotel room, lying in silence, staring at each other after making love, with just the sound of the rain, a distant plane and the room's central heating, and with her head still buzzing from the concert and their lovemaking, she says his crime - his reputation as a great lover - belongs - is justified. Well, it's one way of looking at it! PaulC EDITH AND THE KINGPIN The big man arrives Disco dancers greet him Plainclothes cops greet him Small town, big man, fresh lipstick glistening Sophomore jive From victims of typewriters The band sounds like typewriters The big man he's not listening His eyes hold Edith His left hand holds his right What does that hand desire That he grips it so tight Edith in the ring The passed-over girls are conferring The man with the diamond ring is purring All claws for now withdrawn One by one they bring His renegade stories to her His crimes and his glories to her In challenge they look on Women he has wanted grow old too soon He tilts their tired faces Gently to the spoon Edith in his bed A plane in the rain is humming The wires in the walls are humming Some song-some mysterious song Bars in her head Beating frantic and snowblind Romantic and snowblind She says-his crime belongs Edith and the Kingpin Each with charm to sway Are staring eye to eye They dare not look away You know they dare not look away ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:34:00 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Both Sides *No* video (DVD)? I was browsing the CDNow.com site under Joni Mitchell and came across a DVD of "Both Sides Now" (they have it down as "Both Sides No".) Does anyone have any idea what this video is? Did they film any of the BSN tour? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:48:28 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin SCJoniGuy@aol.com asked: > Bars in her head > Beating frantic and snowblind > Are the bars in her head those of incarceration? I just love the diversity of thinking on this list. For me, the bars in her head are music bars. I have a friend who is a really excellent trumptet player, during the days of coke-induced frenzy he would write music prolifically. On playback, when everyone was rested and straight, these pieces were full of long, sharp, staccatto type passages almost "frantic" in their phrasing and would make me feal uneasy. I always imagined Edith high on coke, music playing in her head and that music being much like my friends coked-out offerings. Regarding his crime belonging I felt that perhaps among those people who enjoyed the coke-high, the "Kingpin" (supplier) always "belonged." Also that the wires in the wall that were "humming" were those of the phone-tappers listening in for incriminating evidence. Just my take. Cassy NP: Pat Metheny, Dave Holland, Roy Haynes "Question and Answer" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:50:11 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: False alarm More questions, maybe I need to read history but in Amelia, what does Joni mean by "it was just a false alarm"? Love Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:59:14 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin In a message dated 3/18/01 11:39:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > I know Edith Piaf had a tragic love life -- and who hasn't? -- but was she > ever involved with some kind of a kingpin? And, if I remember correctly, I > think she died because of some kind of substance abuse -- was it cocaine? > She died of cancer at the young age of 48, but yes she had a problem with alcohol and morphine. I believe that Joni was paying homage to Piaf. I found this interesting tidbit in my research: . At the age of nineteen, she was discovered by nightclub impressario Louis Lepli e, and because she had been singing a song about a sparrow, he christened her La Mt me Piaf, street slang for "Kid Sparrow." Patrons of Lepli e's club Gerny's were astonished by the power and richness of her voice, and by her diminutive size for she was only four feet ten inches tall and weighed probably not much more than eighty pounds. But, her initial success at Gerny's was cut short when Lepli e was murdered, probably over money and probably by some young toughs to whom he had been introduced by Piaf. Although she was cleared of any complicity in the murder, the scandal, and her reputation as a friend of most of Paris' pimps, prostitutes, and petty criminals, drove her out of Paris for a time and forced her to perform in provincial movie houses and bistros to keep from starving once again. He would often stay in houses of ill repute to stay warm. You can read a brief biography as well as sound clips here:http://soundprint.org/documentaries/more_info/piaf.phtml - -Rose rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:20:28 EST From: Artheobeat@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin In a message dated 3/20/01 1:42:47 AM, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: << Plus, my mind is going >> Yes, my mind is going too - it's just that my body can no longer keep up! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:20:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin <> Wow, Rose...great research! Really strengthens my suspicion in Joni's use of the name "Edith". And I'm going out of my tree to hear Elvis C's version! I can HEAR him in my head singing "each with charm to sway..." I played around with Napster for the first time this weekend when I was at my sisters. Went searching for a lot of the Joni covers on the Tribute CD, but no luck. Did find LOTS of other cool stuff though..that Napster is pretty awesome technology! Bob NP: Fleetwood Mac, "Songbird" (demo version) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:36:22 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Edith and The Kingpin This is a very interesting take, and it works. Not the way I pictured it at all but... it works! Didn't Joni once say [something like], "Never mind what it means to me - what does it mean to you?" there you go! - --- Paul Castle wrote: > It is interesting how much our (my) initial > interpretation of > a song is based on what I've read in the media and > (up > to HOSL at least) the expectation that her songs > were > mainly self-confessional. In 'my' mental movie of > the song > Warren Beatty plays the role of The Kingpin and Joni > plays Edith. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:16:59 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Edith & The Kingpin Catherine McKay anima_rising@yahoo.ca wrote > This is a very interesting take, and it works. Not > the way I pictured it at all but... it works! Didn't > Joni once say [something like], "Never mind what it > means to me - what does it mean to you?" there you > go! Thanks, Catherine. I thought, after I sent it, it would probably give Joni a good laugh! I'd really love to hear your 'mental movie'. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:44:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: False alarm <> Jenny, a lot of us old-timers here have batted this one around pretty good. I would challenge some of you newbies & recent de-lurkers to examine the lyrics and give us your take. I for one would love to read it! :~) Bob NP: Fleetwood Mac, "Blue Letter" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:51:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Lahm's new one Looks like Mr. Lahm has put out another excellent collection for us! I'm going to check with my local jazz shop and see if they have it on hand (they had the first one). I'm very excited to hear it!! Here's the songlist, obviously some tracks here INSPIRED by Joni as well...and an Aerosmith cover to boot!! (I'm joking, I'm assuming that it's a different 'Walk This Way') ;~D Buy it and listen to these fine 'Lahm Chops'... Bob David Lahm's "More Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell" 1. Woodstock 2. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 3. San Diego Holiday 4. Off Night Backstreet 5. Walk This Way 6. Silky Veils Of Ardor, The 7. In France, They Kiss On Main Street 8. Ladies Of The Canyon 9. Black Crow 10. Wayne Swirled 11. Vibeca 12. Woodstock - (radio version) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:59:25 EST From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: most removed from Joni Tom Waits-all Portishead(sp?) Judy Garland-Carnegie Hall ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:14:45 EST From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Fwd: False alarm Bob, I'm a newbie and not one to know lyrics. I went to the JM web site and read Amelia. IMO, Amelia is Joni's love ego and/or the personality in her who gets and gives all the love. Joni, or the narrator, is telling her that the love they thought was near, was "a false alarm".? That is how my unusual mind interpreted it? Does anyone else think this? Kammy Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye05.mx.aol.com (rly-ye05.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.202]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:59:11 -0500 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [216.200.102.14]) by rly-ye05.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:59:00 1900 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id KAA14809; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:45:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id KAA14735 for joni-outgoing; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:44:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with ESMTP id KAA14714 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:44:45 -0500 (EST) From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Received: from SCJoniGuy@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id p.4d.8f9376e (15864); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:44:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from web25.aolmail.aol.com (web25.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.1]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:44:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:44:01 EST Subject: Re: False alarm To: Cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <4d.8f9376e.27e8d4c1@aol.com> Sender: owner-joni@jmdl.com Reply-To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Precedence: bulk <> Jenny, a lot of us old-timers here have batted this one around pretty good. I would challenge some of you newbies & recent de-lurkers to examine the lyrics and give us your take. I for one would love to read it! :~) Bob NP: Fleetwood Mac, "Blue Letter" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:27:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Cropton Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin Thanks all for some fascinating ideas about what or who this fine song is about. I had assumed (and I thought I had read somewhere) that it was about people Joni knew in L.A. - but the little grey cells can't remember any more than that now. The Edith Piaf connection seems odd to me. Has Joni ever mentioned an interest in Piaf's life or singing? Cheers, Ian Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:29:18 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Lahm's new one SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Looks like Mr. Lahm has put out another excellent collection for us! David Lahm's "More Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell" > > 10. Wayne Swirled Party on, Wayne. Party on, Lahm. Can't wait to hear it. CDnow has it listed, and also has audio samples of the songs. "In sometimes startlingly deconstructionist mode, Lahm captures [Mitchell's] musical and emotional complexity." - JazzTimes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:40:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Fwd: False alarm On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 Kammass@aol.com wrote: > Bob, I'm a newbie and not one to know lyrics. I went to the JM web site and > read Amelia. IMO, Amelia is Joni's love ego and/or the personality in her > who gets and gives all the love. Joni, or the narrator, is telling her that > the love they thought was near, was "a false alarm".? That is how my unusual > mind interpreted it? Does anyone else think this? That's always been my interpretation. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:43:51 EST From: Artheobeat@aol.com Subject: Re: False alarm In a message dated 3/20/01 3:59:11 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Amelia, what does Joni mean by "it was just a false alarm"? Jenny, a lot of us old-timers here have batted this one around pretty good. I would challenge some of you newbies & recent de-lurkers to examine the lyrics and give us your take. I for one would love to read it! >> Pretty simple. As you know, Hejira was written in a period of Joni healing from a broken relationship. False alarm is a metaphor for a relationship that Joni originally thought 'rang' true - but alas, a false alarm. The fourth verse says it all. Joni is reflecting on her past man and her choice to help 'hide the hurt' in this journey, and reflecting on a fellow journeyer, Amelia Erhardt, whose image was conjured up as Joni viewed the vapor trails while riding alone across the country (as Amelia was alone) - Joni mixes her musings, and from the place of a wounded heart, feeling this momentary kinship with Amelia as 'fellow solitary traveler' - Joni confides in the conjured Amelia that her love affair ultimately proved to be a false alarm. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:57:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin <> Yes indeedy, Ian...on the 1983 "My Top 12" BBC radio show, she played Edith's "LesTrois Cloches" and spoke of the strong influence Piaf had on her singing. In many other interviews Joni mentions her connection to Piaf. That's what made me think of the "Edith" connection... Bob NP: The Mike Flowers Pops, "The In Crowd" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:06:47 EST From: Artheobeat@aol.com Subject: *Joni and smoking This may be, for you old-timers, worn territory. But, I have often wondered why Joni feels it so necessary to ingrain the fact that she smokes so indelibly into her public persona. It has always struck as ironic that someone, who is capable of such wisdom and fortitude, and celebrates in verse her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life struggles - finds it so compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so potentially self destructive. Any thoughts? TIA, Artheo NP - "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke (That Cigarette)", by: Commander Cody & the Lost Planet Airmen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:06:15 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin Edith Piaf had a long affair with France's famous heavyweight boxing champion Marcel Cerdan. A movie was made of their relationship called Edith and Marcel. Here is a summary of the movie: The world's most popular entertainer and Europe's greatest boxer: the film puts the love affair of these two national heroes against a backdrop of the end of World War II, hotel suites in New York, transatlantic plane flights, Cerdan's loss of the world middleweight title to Jake Lamotta, and Piaf's gift for tragic love songs. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:26:12 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin In a message dated 3/20/01 1:13:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Yes indeedy, Ian...on the 1983 "My Top 12" BBC radio show, she played > Edith's "LesTrois Cloches" and spoke of the strong influence Piaf had on > her singing. > > In many other interviews Joni mentions her connection to Piaf. That's what > made me think of the "Edith" connection... > Very interesting Bob. Are there any recordings of these interviews. I'd be interested in hearing them. In my research on Piaf, I learned she often dressed in black. She rose every day at dusk and sang, rehearsed, performed, ate and drank until dawn, then slept all day and began to create and unravel again as the sun went down. Nearly every song Piaf sang was a moment of her life from the streets of Paris. She would tell her composer and musician lovers a story, or describe a feeling or show them a gesture. And they would put music and words to her pain and passion, giving her back her own musical autobiography. rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:39:04 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking Artheobeat@aol.com wrote: > This may be, for you old-timers, worn territory. But, I have often wondered > why Joni feels it so necessary to ingrain the fact that she smokes so > indelibly into her public persona. It has always struck as ironic that > someone, who is capable of such wisdom and fortitude, and celebrates in verse > her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life struggles - finds it so > compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so potentially self > destructive. Any thoughts? It's part of her rebellious nature I'd say. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:02:50 -0800 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking On 3/20/01 10:06 AM, Artheobeat@aol.com wrote > It has always struck as ironic that > someone, who is capable of such wisdom and fortitude, and celebrates in verse > her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life struggles - finds it so > compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so potentially self > destructive. Any thoughts? From an interview Joni did on Canadian TV: Interviewer: asks a question about Joni's smoking and how it appears to the people who see her doing it. Joni: To all the young people watching, don't do what I do. To all the older people, mind your own business. From the horse's mouth Ranger Rick (who never smoked a puff in his life, not tobacco anyway) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:09:45 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking It has always struck as ironic that > > someone, who is capable of such wisdom and fortitude, and celebrates in verse > > her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life struggles - finds it so > > compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so potentially self > > destructive. Any thoughts? Maybe it provides her with some sort of balance. For someone who is so incredibly creative, perhaps it serves as a release somehow, as some equal and opposite energy. But then again, she's only human and has the same needs and cravings as anyone else. Maybe its her "tragic flaw". Victor Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:11:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin <> But of course, Rosalita! ;~) This was made available to JMDLer's as part of Tape Tree #5. It's available as a 90-minute tape, I've since transferred it to (2) CD's. The contents are as follows: Joni Mitchell: "My Top 12" BBC Radio 1, London, England May 29, 1983 Disc One 1. Introduction/Interview 2. Edith Piaf, LesTrois Cloches 3. Interview 4. Joni Mitchell, Speechless 5. Interview 6. Little Richard, Lucille 7. Interview 8. Lambert, Hendricks & Ross, Cloudburst 9. Interview 10. Bob Dylan, Memphis Blues Again 11. Interview 12. Laura Nyro, Captain For Dark Mornings 13. Interview 14. Miles Davis, Nefertiti Disc Two 1. Interview 2. Burundi Drums (drum track / ‘Jungle Line’) 3. Steely Dan, Gaucho 4. Interview 5. Stevie Wonder, That Girl 6. Interview 7. Billie Holiday, You’ve Changed 8. Interview 9. Peter Gabriel, I Have The Touch 10. Interview 11. Stravinsky, Rites of Spring (Introduction) The highlight of the show imo is the piece that Joni introduces as "Speechless". It would later evolve into what we now know as "Two Grey Rooms"... Bob NP: John Fogerty & The Blue Ridge Rangers, "Jambalaya" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:33:36 EST From: Jodcrazee@aol.com Subject: mistaken identity I just finished reading Stacy Ludwig's book "Joni Mitchell Companian{sp?} four decades of commentary. There is a photo of Bonnie Raitt and Rickie Lee Jones at the first Farm Aid and the caption reads 'Joni Mitchell with Bonnie Raitt at Farm Aid' Not only is this incorrect but you talk about stepping on some toes. While RLJ is very hostile towards any comparison to Joni, Joni just sits back and points out the 'kill mommy syndrome' I found it all tragic considering they both top my list and I just thought I would share the interisting error. np RLJ 'Ghostyhead' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: christopher blake Subject: byt remix favorite i'm new but am wondering if i am alone trying to discern my favorite byt remix from that "friends" re-mix cd featuring (i believe)7 mixes of the tune. just figured i would throw that out there... - -peace christopher Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:12:24 +0200 From: jop Subject: another joni cover by p.m. dawn? i saw on billboard dance chart a couple of weeks ago 'night in the city' by p.m. dawn. i remember that they have sampled joni's tracks on their albums (at least 'i had a king' in 1993) but this looks like a new title... - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:20:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: another joni cover by p.m. dawn? Hi Jussi! Yes, this one will be on the Joni tribute CD...in the meantime, I've got a copy of it and I'm going to put it on Volume 16! Thanks for keeping a lookout! If you see anything by local Finnish artists, that would be a GREAT help! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Cropton Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking OK I'll bite. I've smoked tobacco and marijuana for much of my adult life, and have done my fair share of alcohol abuse. I hardly drink at all these days, and haven't smoked tobacco for about a year. I've come to recognise that I'm an addictive personality, and tend to go over the top when I get into a new interest. Its only within the last year or so after coming frighteningly close to losing my wife to my addictions that I have started to make a real effort to pace myself. We know that Joni was no stranger to drugs in her younger days. I can easily believe that she chooses to continue to use tobacco simply because she knows she would need something stronger to fill the void if she were to give it up. Cheers, Ian - --- Artheobeat@aol.com wrote: > This may be, for you old-timers, worn territory. > But, I have often wondered > why Joni feels it so necessary to ingrain the fact > that she smokes so > indelibly into her public persona. It has always > struck as ironic that > someone, who is capable of such wisdom and > fortitude, and celebrates in verse > her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life > struggles - finds it so > compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so > potentially self > destructive. Any thoughts? > TIA, Artheo > NP - "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke (That Cigarette)", by: > Commander Cody & the Lost > Planet Airmen Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:37:21 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking from the brilliantly funny writer fran lebowitz: "smoking: it's the last great form of social rebellion." or, it's viciously addictive. either way, i'm guilty. alison e. in nyc - --- Artheobeat@aol.com wrote: > This may be, for you old-timers, worn territory. > But, I have often wondered > why Joni feels it so necessary to ingrain the fact > that she smokes so > indelibly into her public persona. It has always > struck as ironic that > someone, who is capable of such wisdom and > fortitude, and celebrates in verse > her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life > struggles - finds it so > compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so > potentially self > destructive. Any thoughts? > TIA, Artheo > NP - "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke (That Cigarette)", by: > Commander Cody & the Lost > Planet Airmen Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:39:46 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking I imagine it is because she is sick and tired of people not minding their own business and preaching at her! My grandafther was forced to give up smoking at age 86 by his mean daughter(who smoked). He dropped dead 3 months later. I just found out that 66 people per week are killed on UK roads. 78 are killed in UK accidents in the home! If only people spent so much time worrying about the shit in our soil, our air and our food as they did about people smoking! Especially when these same people drive or fly or use other motorised forms of transport. Smoking is a huge red herring and people have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. Artheobeat@aol.com wrote: > This may be, for you old-timers, worn territory. But, I have often wondered > why Joni feels it so necessary to ingrain the fact that she smokes so > indelibly into her public persona. It has always struck as ironic that > someone, who is capable of such wisdom and fortitude, and celebrates in verse > her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life struggles - finds it so > compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so potentially self > destructive. Any thoughts? > TIA, Artheo > NP - "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke (That Cigarette)", by: Commander Cody & the Lost > Planet Airmen - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:40:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking > Interviewer: asks a question about Joni's smoking and how it appears to the > people who see her doing it. > Joni: To all the young people watching, don't do what I do. To all the older > people, mind your own business. EXACTLY. Go Joni! > > > >From the horse's mouth > Ranger Rick (who never smoked a puff in his life, not tobacco anyway) - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:50:38 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides *No* video (DVD)? I think they must be referring to the upcoming "Audio DVD" release of the BSN studio recording by Warner/Reprise on April 6th. - -Julius Catherine writes: << I was browsing the CDNow.com site under Joni Mitchell and came across a DVD of "Both Sides Now" (they have it down as "Both Sides No".) Does anyone have any idea what this video is? Did they film any of the BSN tour? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:32:50 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking sorry, i messed that quote from fran lebowitz up: "smoking is the last great *bastion* of social rebellion" it's really much better with that word "bastion", i think. alison e. in nyc, hoping fran's not a lurker. - --- Artheobeat@aol.com wrote: > This may be, for you old-timers, worn territory. > But, I have often wondered > why Joni feels it so necessary to ingrain the fact > that she smokes so > indelibly into her public persona. It has always > struck as ironic that > someone, who is capable of such wisdom and > fortitude, and celebrates in verse > her phoenix-like ascensions from numerous life > struggles - finds it so > compelling to advertise a personal habit that is so > potentially self > destructive. Any thoughts? > TIA, Artheo > NP - "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke (That Cigarette)", by: > Commander Cody & the Lost > Planet Airmen Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:57:52 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Shadows and Light DVD Hi all! I just recieved the S&L DVD from and ebay auction. It is so cool! It has the 15 minutes of extra footage not in the original video release. The picture is excellent and I give the sound a B plus- only because it is just going through a stereo. To one interesting note that I need to share is that they have a 'bio' section on JM. It is the first 3 paragraphs that Wally wrote about her on his website! (I just checked...) How did that happen? The DVD is c 2000 by Panorama video out of Hong Kong. Looks like an official release. I belive it is a region 1, but the seller said it was an all region disc- doesn't matter- I like it. I paid 35 for it- considering I spent 50 for the S&L Japan release a few years ago, not bad. Highly recomend it! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:46:17 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking (md) Look at it this way Artheo; You know how in the instance of the discussion of prayer you implored everyone that regardles of how sure they were that they had the "one true faith" that they should simply yield to the acceptance of what anyone else wanted to believe and that whatever that was regardless of any basis (or or complete lack thereof) in facts or "how old it was" etc that they couldnt possibly be more right than that simpleton who wants to worship his navel ?? Well thats how you need to consider Jonis views on smoking. Pardon the expression but you need to practice what you preach. Joni is certainly entitled to act anyway even in your (and my) face with respect to her smoking. Thats her individual choice and everyone is supposed to be PRO choice and non judgemental in any and all decisions that anyone happens to make. Right? cheers. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:04:35 +0200 From: "Nuriel" Subject: runaway from the record biz how can a runaway from the record biz stand on the grammy's stage and kiss bono? what can be more biz in the record biz than u2? a true runaway from the record biz would have stayed at home that night. yours, Nuriel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:24:03 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Why is there NEVER anyone in the chat room when I try? What time is anyone there??? I've tried at 6:00am PST and Noon and 3:30pm and 9:00pm and nothing? Is the honeymoon over? It can't be something I said cuz no one is there to read it!!! Perry Noid, Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:26:22 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: (no subject) SC Bob says I should give my idea about what Missjonimitchell means when she sings "It was just a false alarm.: OK here goes: I don't have a clue! I'm serious, I'm totally stumped. And I always can figure out SOMEthing. But not on this. Perry Noid AND stoopid, Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:48:13 EST From: Artheobeat@aol.com Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking In a message dated 3/20/01 10:46:17 PM, MDESTE1 writes: << Well thats how you need to consider Jonis views on smoking. Pardon the expression but you need to practice what you preach. >> For all of you who "TOTALLY" misinterpreted my curiosity as some kind of sordid condemnation of Joni - you should know that I SMOKE!!! That is precisely why I was curious. HOLY SHIT - read what someone actually writes folks - don't add your own damned 'baggage' by erroneously reinterpreting what someone writes. TIA, Artheo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:49:42 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: runaway from the record biz In a message dated 3/20/01 6:18:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, nurtob@nonstop.net.il writes: > how can a runaway from the record biz stand on the grammy's stage and kiss > bono? what can be more biz in the record biz than u2? a true runaway from > the > record biz would have stayed at home that night. > yours, > Nuriel > It's Back! rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:53:18 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking In a message dated 03/20/2001 1:05:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << imagine it is because she is sick and tired of people not minding their own business and preaching at her! >> As a non-smoker, I do respect that others have their own path to health. I agree with Joni that people need to mind their own business. HOWEVER, it less that she is a "poor" role model and more that she seems to insist to smoke regardless of where she is. If you watch the Saskatoon videos, there she is, smoking in a "smoke free" art gallery. Why? If you watch the TNN Tribute to Joni Mitchell, there she is, puffing away in a theater that is "no-smoking." Pretty darn rude to the other people in the theater to say nothing of a safety hazard. No matter how much I like Joni and admire her art, having her puff away in a space where I expect to see smoke free would have me calling her on it and fast. MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:01:25 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: (no subject) At 06:26 PM 3/20/01 -0500, Jennymac48@aol.com wrote: >SC Bob says I should give my idea about what Missjonimitchell means when she >sings "It was just a false alarm.: OK here goes: I don't have a clue! I'm >serious, I'm totally stumped. And I always can figure out SOMEthing. But not >on this. > >Perry Noid AND stoopid, >Jenny I think it means that JM thought the loud ringing was due to her cigarette but then concluded, with relief, "it was just a false alarm." Or something. - -jan :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:07:01 EST From: Artheobeat@aol.com Subject: Tolerance Marcel, tolerance :-) In a message dated 3/20/01 11:00:56 PM, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << You know how in the instance of the discussion of prayer you implored everyone that regardless of how sure they were that they had the "one true faith" that they should simply yield to the acceptance of what anyone else wanted to believe and that whatever that was regardless of any basis (or or complete lack thereof) in facts or "how old it was" etc that they couldn't possibly be more right than that simpleton who wants to worship his navel >> WOW! Marcel - lots of bitterness and condemnation. You must be someone who has discovered the 'only' right way. I'll bet anyone who doesn't see it your way is a simpleton - am I correct? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:39:30 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Welcome back Nuriel, it's been a while since we've had a post from you! Hope all is well and welcome back! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:37:45 EST From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: joni&morrisey, LJC Hey Listers, Kammy, from Alabama with another question-surprised? What can anyone tell me about Morrisey (sp?) who did the interview with Joni in Rolling Stone? And how much is a radio promo of this worth? (The original packaging with photos.) NP-Sanctuary-20 Yrs of Windham Hill-Rocket to the Moon-Jim Brickman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:08:52 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: Wilson and Alroy I was doing the old searching thing and i came across this site "wilson and alroys record reviews". you know the ones, they listen to the lousy ones so *we* dont have to! i know i saw them mentioned on the list at some point, but there may be others of ye'all that haven't heard of or visited this site. they have an interestign style. http://www.warr.org/joni.html i love the way they descriibe jm.com as "the single most comprehensive fan site in existence, with endless magazine and newspaper clippings, photos, lyrics, tour dates, even lists of other artists' versions of her songs" GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:07:07 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: mistaken identity At 02:33 PM 3/20/01 EST, Jodcrazee@aol.com wrote: >I just finished reading Stacy Ludwig's book "Joni Mitchell Companian{sp?} >four decades of commentary. There is a photo of Bonnie Raitt and Rickie Lee >Jones at the first Farm Aid and the caption reads 'Joni Mitchell with Bonnie >Raitt at Farm Aid' >Not only is this incorrect but you talk about stepping on some toes. Stacy Luftig, editor of the "Joni Mitchell Companion" was a member of this discussion list (and may still be). I seem to recall she wrote to the JMDL about this error. She is aware of it and said one of the book's photo editors was responsible. I also remember she was slightly annoyed at not being given a chance to proof the *entire* book prior to its publication. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:03:44 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: *Joni and smoking > HOWEVER, it less that she is a "poor" role model and more that she seems to > insist to smoke regardless of where she is. If you watch the Saskatoon > videos, there she is, smoking in a "smoke free" art gallery. Why? > > If you watch the TNN Tribute to Joni Mitchell, there she is, puffing away in > a theater that is "no-smoking." Pretty darn rude to the other people in the > theater to say nothing of a safety hazard. > > No matter how much I like Joni and admire her art, having her puff away in a > space where I expect to see smoke free would have me calling her on it and > fast. I completely agree with you on this. I smoke(roll my own) but I never smoke where it isn't allowed nor in someone's home if they don't like it. I have been known not to smoke in my own house when the visitor requires that. I have never been asked not to smoke in my own home but if I know thney have asthma or something I don't. I agree with you, it is very disrespectful of Joni to do so and a somewhat over the top 'star' attitude! Mind you would I ask her to put it out? No, she looks like like you eat you alive!(yes I know I am coward-i accepted that about myself a long time ago!) > > > MG - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:54:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: *Joni and smoking but don't you all remember??? joni says that she smokes to keep herself from vibrating so fast that she'll disappear. someone in hawaii told her so. there's even an interview somewhere. i started smoking when i was 8 years old and i was a chain smoker until i was 34. then i had throat cancer and the pain prevented me from swallowing, let alone smoking. i guess that i smoked because i didn't know what to do with my free time. i enjoyed maybe 10% of the cigarettes i smoked, the rest i just smoked without noticing. i still have dreams in which i light up. i wake up feeling terribly guilty and stupid, until i realized that it was only a dream. an important law of physics: when you quit smoking, no matter where you sit, the smoke always goes straight to you and into your eyes. you can change the direction of the wind by moving non-smokers around. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:00:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: byt remix favorite well, i love #1 and the beginning of #5. after a while they all kind of merge into the same thing in my head. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de christopher blake Enviado el: Martes, 20 de Marzo de 2001 04:46 p.m. Para: joni chat Asunto: byt remix favorite i'm new but am wondering if i am alone trying to discern my favorite byt remix from that "friends" re-mix cd featuring (i believe)7 mixes of the tune. just figured i would throw that out there... - -peace christopher Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:20:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Living in and Understanding Communities gordon, to the best of my knowledge, there never was a previous exchange between paul iv and bob murphy or between paul iv and anybody else, for that matter. you're talking community, we're talking insanity. wallyK, very community oriented but there's a limit to almost anything, as lorelei lee would say - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Gordon Mackie Enviado el: Martes, 20 de Marzo de 2001 08:09 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Living in and Understanding Communities I was thinking about 'communities' whilst reading the latest posting, especially the IVPAUL / Murphycopy exchange. Obviously I've missed some previous correspondence between these two , but I couldn't understand the strength of Bob's response to what seemed to me like a relatively minor point made by Paul. I feel very uneasy about stepping into this particular fray but what one person thinks as positive is another persons negative. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:24:09 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Edith and the Kingpin > > Makes me wonder if the Kingpin is really in control of the situation or if > > it's more of a co-dependency. Are the bars in her head those of > > incarceration? > > > > > I always that line referred to her fear to move out of the situation. (her > own self made prison) > I always thought it referred to bars of music. That mysterious song that the wires in the walls are humming. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #91 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?