From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #73 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, March 4 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 073 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Stupid Girl song/JM link ["Karen O'Brien" ] the klan ["P. Henry" ] Joni Slumber Party ["kerry" ] Re: Joni chat room (was JMDL Digest V2001 #102) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Joni/Kilauren ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Joni/Kilauren [slarty ] Re: Joni/Kilauren [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni/Kilauren [JRMCo1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:40:55 +0000 From: "Karen O'Brien" Subject: Stupid Girl song/JM link I noted Kate Bennett's and Kakki's posts detailing criticism of the writer, Johnny Rogan , who I had quoted as saying in his recent Neil Young biog that 'Stupid Girl' was not written about Joni. Im not sure whether these posts were intended to imply that he is not to be trusted on anything he writes, but if so, I can only reiterate -- for what it's worth -- that I agree with him on the SG/JM issue and I STILL think there is no strong evidence that SG is about JM. That's also the view of many other people Ive spoken to who know Neil Young's work very well. But if anyone has credible  I stress, credible - evidence to the contrary, do please contact me as soon as possible and Id be happy to reflect that in my forthcoming book on Joni. As an aside, given the reported criticisms of Rogan, I was surprised to see that both Crosby and Young are quoted on the dust jacket of the NY book: Neil Young " I was interested where Rogan had talked to other people about me. People who knew me, people who had worked with me. That is more interesting to me than anything. I think thats really the way to get a picture of whats going on. Im not that objective with what Im doing myself but other people who know and work with me have more knowledge ." David Crosby: "Your knowledge is amazing. " Karen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 06:38:01 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: the klan (song I used to do) the country side was cold and still there was a cross upon a hill this cold cross wore a burning hood to hide it's ugly heart of wood father... I hear the iron sound of hoofbeats on the frozen ground down from the hill the riders came Lord it was a cryin' shame To see the blood upon their whips and hear the snarlin' of their lips mother... I feel a stabbing pain my blood runs down like summers rain now each one wore a mask of white to hide his cruel face from sight and each one sucked a hungry breath out from the empty lungs of death sister, come hod my bloody head it's so lonely to be dead now he who travels with the klan he's a devil and not a man and underneath that white disguise I have looked into his eyes brother... will you stand by me it's not easy to be free Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:04:22 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Joni Slumber Party Jenny wrote: >>I just feel weepy with love and gratefulness at being part of this list. For some reason today I felt like we are all in a dark tent in sleeping bags cuddled up at the great Joni Mitchell Slumber Party (in our DREAMS!).>> I agree!! I just got my computer back after being "in the shop" for 2 weeks. I couldn't believe my JMDL withdrawal! Cabin fever and no computer. A recipe for disaster... Things are looking up though - It was over 40 degrees outside yesterday, the sun is shining today and all is right with the world :>) (Now, I only have a few thousand digests to peruse......) Take care, Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:26:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Joni chat room (was JMDL Digest V2001 #102) Courtandspark2@aol.com wrote: > Is there a Joni chat room, or is all correspondence handled via e-mail? Once upon a time (a few years ago), Les investigated this and came up with ICQ instant message/chat software as a viable option for a Joni chat room (or cafe). Many of us downloaded ICQ and loaded our JMDL friends' names/numbers into our "buddy" list, and that information was also available (on a preference basis) on the JMDL website (I don't think it is now, though). However, due to time zone differences, busy schedules, et cetera, the concept seemed to fall by the wayside. I think a few chat room sessions happened, but by and large it's just really hard to "schedule" a chat. "Court," since you're an AOL user, you can start a Joni chat room within AOL (go to People, then to Start Your Own Chat), and other AOL users could participate there. That would limit participation to only AOL users from our list, but you might *meet* some other Joni fans who would like to become a part of the JMDL! : ) For the rest of us, ICQ is still available and is still one of the best instant message/chat softwares, imho. AOL's AIM is a close second. Others are similar but not as widely known or used. ICQ has been free for ages and can be found on most AOL software CDs (I believe AOL bought ICQ awhile back). You can also surf to http://www.icq.com/download/, but ICQ seems to be offering a "time-limited" beta version there and I don't know what that entails (sorry, I don't have time to read the fine print right now). Although I can't commit to lead such a project, I'm all for reviving (and occasionally participating in) the Joni chat/cafe! I think it would be well-received, perhaps especially by new list members. Any takers? Lori near DC ~ Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 12:45:35 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in the Movies I said: > I got this new-fangled digital cable TV set-up > recently...I get like 400 channels, man. Alison said: <57 seven channels and nothing on...57 channels and nothing on..> A typical situation in these typical times, too many choices... I said: >I'm not nuts! Well, maybe I am, but > you can't prove it by this! Al said: Thanks, you little wiseacre. ;-) "Down to You" is just okay. Cute, but it's not "Dr. Zhivago" or anything. I think I fell asleep after the JC. I said: >Weirder still, the guy who is > the lead in "200 Cigs" is the same actor in another > movie featuring JC... Ali points out: You're quite right, Alison. My bad. Paul Rudd and High Fidelity's John Cusack seem very alike to me somehow. I stand corrected. Thanks to everyone who identified the movie title for me, by the way. - -Julius np: "Lovely Day" - Bill Withers. Another great morning song. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:59:13 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Stupid Girl song/JM link Hi Karen, I did not intend to imply that he cannot be trusted on anything he says. I personally don't know much about him at all. I read part of his bio on Van and it seemed quite dense and full of information. I was only speaking to Kate's question or recall that Crosby had criticized Rogan's accuracy. Kate and I, as well as Paz, are all on the CSN discussion list and I thought she was just asking us whether we had also read Crosby's criticisms. We have seen these strong reactions to Rogan from him, and repeatedly. If you want to clear this up, i.e. look to a more credible source, you should subscribe to the CSN discussion list, The Lee Shore, and then post your question about Rogan to that list. I'd be willing to bet one of the first reponses will be from Crosby himself (who participates in that discussion list) and that we would likely see the same response from him once again. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 17:28:37 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Joni/Kilauren Today's Cdn National Post contains an article: "The reunion, from both sides now" about a bitter custody battle involving Kilauren and the father of her young daughter. I was quite surprised to read about a police visit to Joni's LA home when Kilauren was visiting a year ago. This was before I was part of the list, so perhaps you have discussed it before. www.nationalpost.com. Under the 60 day search, type in Joni Mitchell and it is the first article, written by Tom Arnold. Regards, Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:13:12 -0500 From: slarty Subject: Re: Joni/Kilauren Thanks for this Steve. For those who can't find the story: The reunion, from both sides now Life hasn't been easy since Joni Mitchell found the daughter she gave up 32 years ago Tom Arnold National Post Barely four years ago, legendary folk singer Joni Mitchell had a tearful reunion with her only daughter, Kilauren Gibb, whom she had given up for adoption 32 years earlier. Pictures of a smiling birth mother and natural daughter, holding hands and hugging, were seen in magazines and newspapers around the world. Ms. Mitchell, winner of five Grammys and widely regarded as one of the finest singer-songwriters of her generation, gave up Ms. Gibb when she was a 20-year-old struggling arts student. "I've had pain and joy in my life but nothing like this," Ms. Mitchell said at the time of the reunion. "It's an unparalleled emotional feeling." Added Kilauren: "It was wonderful. It was a great relief to me in every way. It made me feel whole. It made me feel complete. I don't have any expectations. I didn't come into this thing with expectations. I just wanted to find my mom." But life since then hasn't been easy. In January, 2000, Ms. Mitchell allegedly slapped Ms. Gibb during a quarrel in which police were called to the singer's US$9-million Bel Air villa in Los Angeles. Ms. Gibb, who called for help, refused to press charges but wanted the alleged assault reported. A Los Angeles Police Department report states officers were there to investigate a "battery." The never-reported incident is part of records filed in a custody dispute involving Ms. Gibb and her former boyfriend, Edward Barrington. Ms. Mitchell is referred to in several documents but only as a "well known" birth mother. According to court documents, Ms. Gibb had allegedly become "increasingly hostile" to her birth mother over time. Mr. Barrington is accused of apparently selling photos of the reunion to the tabloids and only seeking custody of his 20-month-old daughter to remain connected to Ms. Mitchell. It is not known whether Ms. Mitchell will be in Toronto this weekend to attend the Juno awards, where she is nominated for best vocal jazz album, or whether she will see her 36-year-old daughter, who resides in a downtown condominium and is unemployed. Little has been known about Ms. Gibb since the reunion. But documents filed in court portray her as part of a tumultuous, relationship with Mr. Barrington that has crumbled into a nasty custody battle over her only daughter. --- Joni Mitchell was born as Roberta Joan Anderson in Fort MacLeod, Alta., and raised in Saskatoon. While studying art at Southern Alberta Institute of Technology in Calgary, she met her daughter's father, photographer Brad MacMath. She became pregnant in 1964 and moved to Toronto. Kilauren Gibb was born as Kelly Dale in February, 1965. Ms. Mitchell married folk singer Chuck Mitchell for a time, but when it did not work out she put her daughter up for adoption. The baby girl was adopted by David and Ida Gibb, and renamed Kilauren. Residing in the Toronto suburb of Don Mills, Kilauren grew up attending private schools and dining in country clubs. Ms. Gibb began a career in modelling as a teenager and was featured on the cover of Chatelaine magazine in November, 1983. She also modelled in Paris and New York. Between gigs, she took courses at Harvard University in Boston as well as at the University of Toronto. Her friendship with Edward Barrington dates back to 1979, when they were both teenagers. They met because their parents held memberships at the Donalda Club, a private golf and tennis club. However, Ms. Gibb married Paul Kohler, a Toronto-based talent agent, in 1992 after a two-year courtship. The couple had a boy a year later but separated in mid-1995. It was then that Mr. Barrington re-entered her life. Mr. Barrington claims they were together more than four years, while Ms. Gibb suggests the pairing was shorter and "on and off." In 1996, Ms. Mitchell made a public plea to find her daughter. By then, Ms. Gibb had been searching for her mother as well. It was Ms. Gibb's Internet skills that led her to believe the Canadian music icon might be her mother. Finally, she called Ms. Mitchell's manager. The singer called back and left a message on Ms. Gibb's answering machine. "Hi, it's Joni," the message said. "Please call me. I'm here. I'm overwhelmed." The pair met in March, 1997, in Los Angeles. Mr. Barrington was also there. During her stay at Ms. Mitchell's home, located in one of L.A.'s most exclusive neighbourhoods, she met many celebrities, including singer Etta James, and musicians Herbie Hancock and B.B. King. Friends noted obvious comparisons: their high cheekbones, long blond hair and blue eyes. Ms. Gibb and Mr. Barrington returned to Canada and months later he proposed marriage. Soon they moved to Vancouver. Ms. Gibb became pregnant in September, 1998. During the pregnancy "her behaviour became even more unmanageable," Mr. Barrington alleges in a questionnaire provided to the Office of the Children's Lawyer, an Ontario agency which protects the legal rights of children. "Frequent emotional outbursts and her alienating manner were now the norm ... I knew she was troubled, and I too felt trapped," he writes. The girl was born in June, 1999. By Christmas the relationship was strained and Mr. Barrington was not invited to Ms. Mitchell's L.A. home for the holidays with the rest of the family. It was during Ms. Gibb's visit that the LAPD were called to Ms. Mitchell's home at 1 a.m. on Jan. 3, 2000. "Officers completed a battery report, although Ms. Gibb refused any police action," said Jason Lee, an LAPD spokesman. "Gibb stated she was visiting her biological mother, Joni Mitchell, from Canada, but was involved in an argument when Mitchell hit her on the face. Gibb did not receive any injuries and there was no witness," he adds. Detectives closed the case after interviewing Ms. Gibb, who did not wish to "file charges for prosecution." Mr. Barrington said in his questionnaire to the Office of the Children's Lawyer that he "became extremely anxious when I learned about the physical violence that occurred while they were away." "The months following the Christmas trip, as I had expected, Kilauren took no responsibility for this horrendous incident and she was increasingly hostile towards her biological mother, the children and me," he writes in the questionnaire, part of a court-ordered investigation. "She began to drink heavily ..." The pair reconciled for a three-week period in July, 2000. In late August, Ms. Gibb complained to police she was being harassed. On Sept. 8, Ms. Gibb applied for sole custody of the couple's girl to the Ontario Court of Justice (Family Court) in Toronto. In seven handwritten pages filed in court, she alleges Mr. Barrington is mentally unstable, an alcoholic, a drug user and an addict obsessed with pornography. She alleges his best friends are criminals and female escorts. And, she alleges, he abused their daughter. She also claims he exploits people, charging he secretly sold photos of her reunion for $6,000 (cash he claims was given back to Ms. Gibb). He wants custody to be "connected financially" with Ms. Mitchell, she further alleges. None of the alleged incidents was reported to police. In an affidavit filed in court, Mr. Barrington denounces the allegations as "lies." The Children's Aid Society of Toronto was asked by the presiding judge to investigate the matter. In a report filed in court, it concluded "there is no evidence to suggest any immediate child protection concerns." Soon after, Mr. Barrington was awarded limited supervised access to his daughter. In November, 2000, Mr. Barrington travelled to L.A. and met with Ms. Mitchell to discuss the dispute. He asked her to intervene but she apparently has not. Mr. Barrington also states in the Children's Lawyer questionnaire that Ms. Gibb "has painted me, to my complete disgust as an intravenous drug user, a potential pedophile and she even endeavoured to question my paternity." In an affidavit filed in court, he added he has been clinically treated by a psychiatrist, occasionally suffers from depression and has been diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder. The 35-year-old salesman says his life is stable since finishing university in 1990. He has had four jobs since, he says, while claiming Ms. Gibb lives in a condominium owned by her adoptive parents and "has never worked other than in a video store ..." In his affidavit he also alleges Ms. Gibb exhibits "angry and violent behaviours" and she is "using my daughter as a way of manipulating and controlling me." He claims she "is incapable of being a responsible parent," noting the child was dropped by her pediatrician after four appointments were missed. Louise Malenfant, a family advocate with Edmonton-based Parents Helping Parents, has recently taken on Mr. Barrington's case. Ms. Malenfant, who specializes in cases of false allegations of child abuse, has asked the Ontario Judicial Council to consider removing Madame Justice Penny Jones, who is overseeing the custody case, alleging judicial misconduct and incompetence. The group also wants the Children's Lawyer office to recommend a full clinical assessment of the case. "Allegations of this nature that do not raise the concerns of either the child welfare system or the police, brings serious question to the credibility of the accuser, and raises the spectre of deliberate false allegations being made to eliminate the paternal family of a child," Ms. Malenfant states in a letter to the office. The group also intends to present Ms. Gibb's Sept. 8 handwritten custody application to police and ask for an investigation into possible perjury and obstruction of justice. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:17:33 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Kilauren In a message dated 3/3/01 5:36:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, sepstein@agmont.com writes: > I was quite surprised to read about a police visit to Joni's LA home when > Kilauren was visiting a year ago. This was before I was part of the list, > so perhaps you have discussed it before. > > It's unfortunate that what was a private matter has attracted the attention of the press. Like Joni told Rosie during her interview, when it comes to families, there's always problems... I know I have my fair share. Rose in NJ rosemjoy@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 00:31:32 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Kilauren "Kilauren Gibb was born as Kelly Dale in February, 1965." Kelly Dale...Irish name...Little Green. I think I finally understand why Joan titled the song thus. Another little mystery unraveled for me after all these years. Happy belated birthday, Little Green. Have a happy ending... - -Julius ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #73 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?