From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #71 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, March 2 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 071 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Good Morning America transcript ["Deb Messling" ] Lurchio Rising...uprising in me tonight....titter ye not [Gordon Mackie <] no apologies ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Good Morning America transcript [jan gyn ] *What's in a nmae [Artheobeat@aol.com] Re: Joni's Most Underrated? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] The Real Hejira ["william" ] Re: Joni and James and Bobbie Z [Lmpeakes@aol.com] Stupid Girl song/JM link ["Karen O'Brien" ] Jericho's walls and dido re me ["BRIAN SYMES" ] RE: Jericho's walls and dido re me ["Kate Bennett" ] Favorite Joni 'in a can' [Artheobeat@aol.com] Re: no apologies ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: no apologies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: no apologies ["Stephen Epstein" ] Seattle Quake [ElLayCoyoteRick@aol.com] Re: no apologies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's Most Underrated? [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Joni's Most Underrated? [JRMCo1@aol.com] Lyrics Section of JMDL ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Playing Pinball With Joan At the Raven In Detroit? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Good Morning America transcript The JMDL article page has a transcript of Joni's 1998 appearance on Good Morning America. Routine stuff, but I loved how the transcribers heard Crazy Cries of Love: JONI MITCHELL: (singing) It was a duck (?) in the stormy night. - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:44:57 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Lurchio Rising...uprising in me tonight....titter ye not With much trepidation, I arise form lurk mode. Seeing Glasgow mentioned in the list has made me put cyber pen to paper....or should that be digit to key. In a vain attempt to start a 'thread'... how many others in jmdl land also in Caledonia? If this has been covered before ...er..well...ignore it and I can easily slip back into something more comfortable (oh missus) PS That's enough Frankie Howerd for one email PPS I just uncovered my vinyl copy CSNY "So Far". Had forgotten Joni did the cover artwork. She's a real whizz with a felt tip...ok I chastise myself for being Frankie Howerd again! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:00:44 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: no apologies I was surprised to see No Apologies show up on least favorites lists. I have always loved the song and IMHO it is a highlight of TTT. I am not a musician but I love the sound of the music. Thematically it is an examination of masculinity at the end of the twentieth century. The General's story and the story of Juan are both sides to the same story. The pomposity of men. The General dismisses the brutal rape as essentially "boys fun". Juan thinks so highly of himself he considers himself the devil. (A friend told me she thinks Freddie is Fred Walecki and Juan is Jackson Brown, Juan being Spanish for John or Jack. I am not sure I buy this theory but it is intriguing.) Then just when you think the song is going to be a complete bash of men the lyric turns empathetic - "snakes and snails and puppy tails are wagging in the wound beneath a trampled moon, posing the question - "what makes a man a man in these tough times?" The theme becomes universal and the question is left unanswered. This is just a thumbnail analysis, typing tires me quickly. There are many layers to the song which I might follow up on later. If I were to have a criticism I would say the buoyant, upbeat nature of the music doesn't seem to support the theme. peace, david NP - Peel Me A Grape, Paula West ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 08:51:39 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Good Morning America transcript At 07:06 AM 3/1/01 -0500, Deb Messling wrote: >The JMDL article page has a transcript of Joni's 1998 appearance on Good >Morning America. Routine stuff, but I loved how the transcribers heard >Crazy Cries of Love: > > >JONI MITCHELL: (singing) It was a duck (?) in the stormy night. I think that was a song by Nick Drake. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:04:04 EST From: Artheobeat@aol.com Subject: *What's in a nmae In a message dated 2/28/01 4:51:09 PM, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << Artheo (like that name) >> Thanks Colin! It was given to me in the orphanage where I lived as a child. I have no idea from where it springs ethnically. I used to hate it - but I now wear it proudly as a symbol of my survival of an extremely turbulent childhood. TIA, Artheo NP - VooDoo Bop, by: Astral Project ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:39:44 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Most Underrated? In a message dated 3/1/01 12:42:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, p.a.oconnor@worldnet.att.net writes: << > DED has got to be Joni's most underrated disc, don't ya'll agree? >> And deservedly so, IMO. I still think it's her weakest effort by far. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 01:44:35 +0700 From: "william" Subject: The Real Hejira To any of our Muslim JMDLers out there, this Monday is the real Hejira (as if you didn't know) and so I wish ye all an Eid al Adha. Indonesia being a multi-thingy of religions, we do get all the holidays that are going. Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Islamic and the other one. I'm heading for active Bromo with jitter in hand to tune my jitter to the sonic references of the day. Weekend away while ........... stick up Washington. Whatever that means. Willy the not Shaking so much as our Seattle friends. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:02:45 EST From: Lmpeakes@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and James and Bobbie Z When I first saw this thread's title, I wondered what Rob Zombie was doing w/J&J - then I remembered that Dylan's "maiden" name was Zimmerman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 19:05:27 +0000 From: "Karen O'Brien" Subject: Stupid Girl song/JM link John Low wrote: Ive always been lead to believe that Neil Youngs song Stupid Girl was directed at Joni Mitchell. Hinton, in his biography of Joni, says this is supposedly the case and Im sure Ive read it elsewhere too. Does anyone know where this story came from and is it really true? Has Neil Young actually said anywhere that she was the inspiration behind the song?  But didnt Zuma and HOSL come out almost at the same time in 1975, surely too close together for this to be the case? - ---- Ive never seen any credible evidence that this song is about Joni. Indeed , Johnny Rogan writes in his major biog Neil Young: Zero to Sixty (publ last yr) : " The songs subject was widely assumed to be Joni Mitchell, although this was most likely wishful thinking on the part of an over-imaginative critic. Beneath the insulting refrain lay the story of a girls inability to vanquish the past and start afresh". Joni Mitchell has shown an admirable ability to vanquish the past whether it was childhood illness, heartbreak or career setbacks -- as Neil Young would have known at that time anyway. And, yes, John as you say , the two albums were released very close together . I think the Stupid Girl/JM link is another one of those speculative whos that song about interpretations that start off as fiction yet end up being accepted as fact. JM herself has said of such misreadings of her own work : "Assumptions were made in interpreting the lyrics ... that this was about so-and-so ... all that nonsense that destroys the ability of the listener to identify with a song. Plus they were misinterpretations ... " Karen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:21:50 -0800 From: "BRIAN SYMES" Subject: Jericho's walls and dido re me Yesterday morning i was out touring an apartment complex with contractors, explaining why the most important part of this renovation was to rebuild the stairways up to the second floor apartments because they were held up on four metal angles attached in the brick walls as I said if there was ever an earth quake the whole stairway might fall down on the first floor occupants trying to leave there apartments! One Contractor looked a me saying the whole thing was structurally sound but was ready to make a profit for doing it for this paranoid Architect. We were just walking away when the 30 second rock and roll started. He gave me the strange strangest look after it was over.I guess my Angel hangs out pretty close to me some times. DIDO Some Angel? Some of the cut show off her English roots but mostly the Arista jazzypoppy sound machine are the wings that lift her simple high pitched voice. Kid Pictures inside the cdbook are nice.Did she write all the songs?. I can only imagine that she is the D. Armstrong credited in the cd. To put it on an architectural comparision DIDO is soft sugar pine (a sticky pitch) Kate Bennett is hard sugar maple (grade A sryup) After a record 5 days of sun the rain is back! Brian in Portland . - ----------------------- Free Email Service provided to you by Office.com, a service from Winstar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:36:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Jericho's walls and dido re me thanks Brian, love that maple syrup and maple syrup candy! also maple guitars! You & Catherine- what great earthquake stories & what wierd synchronicities...so how did that building do in the quake? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com ******************************************** Yesterday morning i was out touring an apartment complex with contractors, explaining why the most important part of this renovation was to rebuild the stairways up to the second floor apartments because they were held up on four metal angles attached in the brick walls as I said if there was ever an earth quake the whole stairway might fall down on the first floor occupants trying to leave there apartments! One Contractor looked a me saying the whole thing was structurally sound but was ready to make a profit for doing it for this paranoid Architect. We were just walking away when the 30 second rock and roll started. He gave me the strange strangest look after it was over.I guess my Angel hangs out pretty close to me some times. DIDO Some Angel? Some of the cut show off her English roots but mostly the Arista jazzypoppy sound machine are the wings that lift her simple high pitched voice. Kid Pictures inside the cdbook are nice.Did she write all the songs?. I can only imagine that she is the D. Armstrong credited in the cd. To put it on an architectural comparision DIDO is soft sugar pine (a sticky pitch) Kate Bennett is hard sugar maple (grade A sryup) After a record 5 days of sun the rain is back! Brian in Portland . - ----------------------- Free Email Service provided to you by Office.com, a service from Winstar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:28:37 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Most Underrated? I think "Clouds" is defiantly Joni's most underrated album.I can't understand why some people don't like it.Joni's singing is so pretty on it.The songs are deep and wonderful...overall it's a better album then LOTC imo. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 16:34:13 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: no apologies David wrote: > Juan thinks so > highly of himself he considers himself the devil. (A friend told me she thinks > Freddie is Fred Walecki and Juan is Jackson Brown, Juan being Spanish for John > or Jack. I am not sure I buy this theory but it is intriguing.) A few of us here heard this, too, from a very reliable source. I also was surprised by it, but I trust the source. Jackson is part Mexican (on his mother's side, I recall) and supposedly a family nickname for him is "Juan." Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:08:58 EST From: Artheobeat@aol.com Subject: Favorite Joni 'in a can' Greetings list! I really don't have any Joni tunes that I don't find interesting, especially when taken in the context of her life at the time they were written and recorded - so I can't 'play' in the least favorite tune game. I can play in a most favorite game. The most magical 'canned' Joni to me (as compared to 'fresh' in the flesh) is the PWWAM DVD. She just looks so alive and comfortable in her skin during this performance. She radiates, buoyant, free. She looks joyous when dancing with her back up vocalist, and is just plain captivating during her 'topless knitting' story. And her voice - my god - just heavenly and moving. And her and the band's playing was marvelous, open and minimalist when appropriate - yet strong and gripping when the lyric and presentation called or it. Breathtaking when listened to in 5.1 digital surround sound. An epiphanal moment in time captured for eternity. Now that I have written this, I guess I do have a least favorite Joni - with the emphasis on FAVORITE - not 'least'. It would be the entire BSN CD. Not that it isn't beautiful it is - and I enjoy it for itself. The 'Joni' touch on the classics contained in BSN is very special. I'm glad she did it. It shows what a unique song stylist Joni is. As good as anybody doing classics IMHO. But I don't think this heavily orchestrated vehicle shows Joni, nor her original works that were recharted on BSN for orchestra, in their best light - - which is free, subtle, coy, charming, light, poignant, humorous, streamlined, spontaneous, 'at the helm', and for Joni personally, the mistress of all she surveys - like in PWWAM! An example of what I'm saying is the song Comes Love. On BSN it is pretty, no doubt, but Joni's emotion is somewhat overshadowed by the weight of the orchestra. But on PWWAM, 'Comes Love' goes straight to the soul, and leaves you speechless. TIA, Artheo NP - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:29:50 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: no apologies > I was surprised to see No Apologies show up on least favorites lists. I have > always loved the song and IMHO it is a highlight of TTT. I am not a musician > but I love the sound of the music. Thematically it is an examination of > masculinity at the end of the twentieth century. I agree with this assessment & I've tried to say the same thing before. The song does have an underlying theme & although it may contain some personal references that the rest of us can only guess at, it is not 'disjointed'. I happen to like it too. "snakes and snails and puppy tails are wagging in the > wound beneath a trampled moon, There's that reference to the moon again. In Willy she called it 'the conquered moon' and in Don't Interrupt the Sorrow the man says 'We walked on the moon, you be polite.' I get the feeling that it really bugs Joni that humans have landed on the moon. As if the moon has been defiled or demystified somehow. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:16:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: no apologies << I get the feeling that it really bugs Joni that humans have landed on the moon. As if the moon has been defiled or demystified somehow. >> I agree Mark, and don't forget the 'trampled moon' in "Willy"...and the fact that the moon walk happened in the midst of her emergence as an artist may have some significance as well. Change the subject but still JC: Just got back from seeing a play called "Collected Stories", about a young student/writer who learns from and then begins to surpass her mentor. Anyway, towards the end, she's reading an excerpt from her soon-to-be-published novel, and when she mentions her first book of short stories, there's some applause, to which she responds... "I feel like it's a Joni Mitchell concert..."Play Circle Game!" It was a good play, but this line was almost distracting to me because I started to think about you all! :~) I'm heading out for Myrtle beach tomorrow, back Sunday PM, y'all have a great weekend! Bob NP: Andy Summers, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:33:47 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: no apologies Bob M. wrote: "Change the subject but still JC: Just got back from seeing a play called "Collected Stories", about a young student/writer who learns from and then begins to surpass her mentor. Anyway, towards the end, she's reading an excerpt from her soon-to-be-published novel, and when she mentions her first book of short stories, there's some applause, to which she responds... "I feel like it's a Joni Mitchell concert..."Play Circle Game!" It was a good play, but this line was almost distracting to me because I started to think about you all! :~)" What about it was distracting Bob? Memories of the somewhat recent discussion of JM's comments about Van Gogh on Misles of Aisles? - "play another starry night man"- or just thinking 'bout the list? Stephen in Vancouver- curious! NP: A Day in the Garden- JM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:46:30 EST From: ElLayCoyoteRick@aol.com Subject: Seattle Quake Glad to hear all my pals up in Seattle are A-OK. As a frequent flyer of LA's quakes, I have nothing but compassion for how f--king scary these things are. At least you didn't have to run into your front yard nude. Our last big one was about 430AM!! Coyote Rick (with embarrassing images of himself during the Northridge quake) Doubletree Hotel, Austin, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:58:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: no apologies << What about it was distracting Bob? >> I couldn't wait to get home and post about it! ;~D Am I a Joni geek, or what! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:02:20 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Most Underrated? You know, I probably would never have thought of "Clouds" like that...underrated. But what you say makes sense; the songs are uniformly magnificent. If I remember rightly, she does them all on guitar; for me that's a big plus. Thanks for prompting these thoughts. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 02:23:19 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Most Underrated? Clouds bests LOTC, Relayer? Hmmm. Perhaps. I'm way beyond objectivity though. I love both Clouds and LOTC with passion and religiously give them their due, respectively. That's just me. Naturally, your mileage will vary. As I'm certain Nikki would say: "It's all good!" :-) I was going to reply to Paul that, while DED could be perceived as less inspired than Joni's other discs, it's still immeasurably better than 90% of last years releases. Again, imho. I think Her whole body of work is grossly underrated, but the game's still afoot, isn't it? Martin Luther King once said that unearned suffering is redemptive. Word? We shall see. I'm bewildered that MOA and Shadows and Light aren't both heralded with the best live efforts of all time. Frampton Comes Alive, Rush: All The World's a Stage, Little Feat: Waiting for Columbus...these classics should be their company. Can I get a witness? On LOTC, if I may. I'm endeared to it because in my book it's the most inspired morning album ever conceived and recorded. How dearly I recall my college days, waking up in my lover's arms, snuggled in her canopied bed beneath her grandma's cloud-soft patchwork quilt, with morning sun beams colorfully refracting through dangling crystal prisms all over us...to our quiet delight. Michele would reach over and drop the needle on LOTC and "Morning Morgantown" would fill the new day air...followed by the so-sweet "For Free." Those precious moments became transcendent. We loved the rain and would spoon on the futons near the crackling fire absorbed by "Rainy Night House." I could go on and on on LOTC, with love. Somebody stop me! Thanks for the mention of Canyon Ladies, Re. - -Julius np: Ladies of the Canyon, in the rain Relayer211 writes: << I think "Clouds" is defiantly Joni's most underrated album.I can't understand why some people don't like it.Joni's singing is so pretty on it.The songs are deep and wonderful...overall it's a better album then LOTC imo. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:28:55 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Lyrics Section of JMDL This is a great resource. I was researching the song "Both Sides Now", or "Both Sides, Now" on the JMDL tonight for a post to the Cowboy Junkies message board. I wanted the release date of "Clouds" and knew that the lyrics section has very cool reproductions of all of the covers and their release times. From the jmdl main page, click on "Lyrics" in the left hand column. Anyway, check out the lyric page for "California". Look at the phrase that launched a thousand threads- "sunset pig". Les has wisely provided links *directly on phrases that will confuse novices*. The link opens a new page (so you don't lose your place) where the phrase is explained. Very smart Les. The "sunset pig" page has Kakki's explanation of those heady days in LA and even sports a photograph. Way to go, Les! The JMDL can stand proudly right next to that official Joni page (what's it called again, I forget :) ), especially with regard to layout and ease of use! Go Les! Looking forward to quaffing a margarita with you in Ashara's backyard this year..... I'm homesick for all my jmdl buddies. Sentimental tonight, Lama np: "You've Got A Friend" from a little record called "Tapestry" by Carole King. Nikki and Yael: You should look into this one. is this appropriate jc or not?? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 02:41:53 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Playing Pinball With Joan At the Raven In Detroit? Hi Terry M., Here's an on-list question for ya. On the "Members Profiles" section of JMDL (previously the Gallery) you said that you and Joni used to play pinball together. Have you told this story before? Is it true or a colorful, believable fib? Details! More importantly, will you play with Marian Russell in Topsfield this year? Your public demands it! Terry! Terry! Terry! Terry! Terry! Terry! Terry! Terry! Terry! Lama ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #71 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?