From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #39 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, February 2 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 039 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Mp3 to Audio CD ["Greer, Ron" ] RE: Mp3 to Audio CD ["Chris Marshall" ] teen favorite ["Doug Oram" ] And the winner is... [Richard Rice ] How??? [Richard Rice ] RE: Mp3 to Audio CD ["Greer, Ron" ] petrified wood [BarBearUh ] RE: Mp3 to Audio CD ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: petrified wood [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: How??? [MDESTE1@aol.com] RE: petrified wood - anima rising ["Brett Code" ] Fwd: petrified wood - anima rising [RoseMJoy@aol.com] A Strange Boy [LeslieMixon@aol.com] Re: petrified wood - anima rising ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni's paintings on the net? [slarty ] Re: A Strange Boy [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Covert complicity;notches ["Megan" ] Re: Joni's paintings on the net? [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Lake of Pontoon Planes [Steve Dulson ] Re: A Strange Boy ["cassy" ] Re: A Strange Boy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Parched Ribs of Sand [LeslieMixon@aol.com] Re: Parched Ribs of Sand [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Superbowl (wasJaco Who Loves You?) ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: Lake of Pontoon Planes [Catherine McKay ] Re: How??? [Catherine McKay ] New photos of colored Joni prints [Merk54@aol.com] Your nachos? Liberation, doll! [Tyler Hewitt ] Re: petrified wood [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lake of Pontoon Planes [Steve Dulson ] Re: Covert complicity;notches [Catherine McKay ] Re: Covert complicity;notches [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lake of Pontoon Planes [Catherine McKay ] Re: Covert complicity;notches [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Covert complicity;notches ["Megan" ] Re: petrified wood ["hell" ] Re: Parched Ribs of Sand ["hell" ] Re: Parched Ribs of Sand [MGVal@aol.com] Joni cover [MP123A321@aol.com] RE: petrified wood ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Covert complicity;notches ["cassy" ] Re: Joni cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Covert complicity;notches [Relayer211@aol.com] Joni Cover Alert [AzeemAK@aol.com] (no subject) [AzeemAK@aol.com] strange, strange boy ["Janine Sherman" ] Petrified wood ["Megan" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:22:33 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: Mp3 to Audio CD hi jerry >What kind of files to I need to convert to from MP3's in order to burn >them into a cd? Bob? Lama? Mark? Anyone? if you are burning to an audio cd for playing on a hi fi, you normally need to convert from .mp3 to .wav files. my personal preference for doing this is to use dbpower AMP music convertor, which is a freeware program. once installed you simply select the files to convert, right click your mouse & select the desired format - simple! ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:22:36 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Mp3 to Audio CD Ron Greer said:- > if you are burning to an audio cd for playing on a hi fi, you normally need > to convert from .mp3 to .wav files. my personal preference for doing this is > to use dbpower AMP music convertor, which is a freeware program. once > installed you simply select the files to convert, right click your mouse & > select the desired format - simple! A few of the main CD writer products (Ahead Nero, certainly) have MP3 plugins to save you any intermediate steps: you just drag MP3s into them, then hit the burn button! Before these plugins were available, I splashed out all of about $30 on a piece of shareware called MP3CDmaker (or something like that). This has a similar interface: just drag the MP3 files in, then it'll burn them straight to CD as audio tracks. Saves you all the conversion time, and you don't need 650Mb of hard disc space spare to hold all the WAVs. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 01:27:39 -0800 From: "Doug Oram" Subject: teen favorite During my teens, and for sometime thereafter this line from Blonde in the Bleachers was constantly running through my head - 'it's the unknown child, so sweet and wild, it's youth, it's too good to waste'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 03:49:28 -0600 From: Richard Rice Subject: And the winner is... I donno Helen, I thought the dancing in the underwear thingie was some of the best "acting" I have ever seen. (Saw it 6 times in the theater... 6! ...ahem.) Anyway, I cannot believe I will sit down and watch 4 hours of television just for the hope of one fleeting glance of Joni. (Maybe Rich is right and we are all crazy here.) p.s. Is there a psycological treatment for Joni dreams??? For years I dreamed I almost met her. Now that I have, the dreams have quadrupled. In some dreams I nearly met her. In most she is out of reach. In some she is in town to perform. A few I get to see. The rest are terribly frustrating. Sure, it beats my usual being chased by the FBI/Aliens dreams... but for being a happy guy. My dreams are way too vigorous and stressful. --Help. John. n.p. Sike oil , neutral grey and yellow ocre value 7. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 03:57:21 -0600 From: Richard Rice Subject: How??? Hi all, Regarding Mingus composing with a tape recorder... How does one hum a jazz chord??? john. (Being a little silly, but still... a chord is a complex thing... musicians do have to play them... he 'wrote' them with a hum???...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:59:23 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: RE: Mp3 to Audio CD hi >Chris wrote >A few of the main CD writer products (Ahead Nero, certainly) have MP3 >plugins to save you any intermediate steps: you just drag MP3s into yes, there is that option. and there is an added advantage in using nero in that it has noise filters, (work great for lp to cd conversion) and also a facility to "normalise" the volume. mp3s come at differing volumes, resulting in annoying fluctuations in volume - nero will smooth those out to a common level. this does work on a compressor basis like the dreaded automatic recording levels on cheap hi fis, but then again if hi fi sound quality was an issue you wouldnt be using mp3 ; ) but dbpower amp is a great tool for those who dont have nero (or similar) its also great for ripping from cd to mp3. bung your cd in, go to explorer, select your tracks, right click & you can rip to wav files, or straight to mp3 format. it also has a facility for line in recording - which makes it perfect for lp/tape to cd conversion. ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:47:07 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: petrified wood "don't interrupt the sorrow" is one of my top 10 joni songs, and i've honestly never thought about what it means, i've always just liked the poetry, the melody, the arrangement, the attitude. now that i take a look at it, i think this is truly a feminist song - anima rising - the feminine rising up to claim the ancient crown. the imagery suggests a man in a bar, and a female figure part waitress part girlfriend...? what's completely unclear to me is whether the first time the anima rises - anima rising queen of queens wash my guilt of eden wash and balance me anima rising uprising in me tonight she's a vengeful little goddess with an ancient crown to fight - - if it is a strength arising in the woman, or the feminine spirit rising in the man. the verse in and of itself suggests the latter, but when she leaves, it seems the former - i'm leaving on the 1:15 you're darn right since i was seventeen i've had no one over me he says "anima rising - so what - petrified wood process tall timber down to rock!" to me this says that it takes a very very long time to make a sea change and that women are not going to get their equal position for ages to come, that he's brushing off her feminist position. barbara np: madredeus, o paraiso ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:47:15 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Mp3 to Audio CD Ron said (of dbpower amp) > its also great for ripping from cd to mp3. bung your cd in, go to explorer, > select your tracks, right click & you can rip to wav files, or straight to > mp3 format. That's *really* useful :) I used RealJukeBox last time to rip some CD tracks, and regretted it, because it did a rather poor quality job. I'll give this thing a try. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:42:53 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: petrified wood In a message dated 2/2/01 6:57:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, barbearuh@erols.com writes: << "don't interrupt the sorrow" is one of my top 10 joni songs, and i've honestly never thought about what it means, i've always just liked the poetry, the melody, the arrangement, the attitude. now that i take a look at it, i think this is truly a feminist song - anima rising - the feminine rising up to claim the ancient crown. the imagery suggests a man in a bar, and a female figure part waitress part girlfriend...? what's completely unclear to me is whether the first time the anima rises - >> This is also one of my favorites as well Barbara. Lately I've been wondering what it means, so I did some research. I found this to be very interesting. I've always admired the work of Carl Jung. According to Jungian Psychology: Anima and animus A part of our persona is the role of male or female we must play. For most people that role is determined by their physical gender. But Jung, like Freud and Adler and others, felt that we are all really bisexual in nature. When we begin our lives as fetuses, we have undifferentiated sex organs that only gradually, under the influence of hormones, become male or female. Likewise, when we begin our social lives as infants, we are neither male nor female in the social sense. Almost immediately -- as soon as those pink or blue booties go on -- we come under the influence of society, which gradually molds us into men and women. In all societies, the expectations placed on men and women differ, usually based on our different roles in reproduction, but often involving many details that are purely traditional. In our society today, we still have many remnants of these traditional expectations. Women are still expected to be more nurturant and less aggressive; men are still expected to be strong and to ignore the emotional side of life. But Jung felt these expectations meant that we had developed only half of our potential. The anima is the female aspect present in the collective unconscious of men, and the animus is the male aspect present in the collective unconscious of women. Together, they are refered to as syzygy. The anima may be personified as a young girl, very spontaneous and intuitive, or as a witch, or as the earth mother. It is likely to be associated with deep emotionality and the force of life itself. The animus may be personified as a wise old man, a sorcerer, or often a number of males, and tends to be logical, often rationalistic, even argumentative. The anima or animus is the archetype through which you communicate with the collective unconscious generally, and it is important to get into touch with it. It is also the archetype that is responsible for much of our love life: We are, as an ancient Greek myth suggests, always looking for our other half, the half that the Gods took from us, in members of the opposite sex. When we fall in love at first sight, then we have found someone that "fills" our anima or animus archetype particularly well! I'm still looking for that other half.........lol Still thinking about this........ Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:45:51 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: How??? In a message dated 2/2/2001 2:15:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, f40rmr1@corn.cso.niu.edu writes: << Regarding Mingus composing with a tape recorder... How does one hum a jazz chord??? >> I cant think of an easier way to compose. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 06:22:19 -0700 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: petrified wood - anima rising Rose, Thanks for this. I had never heard it before, and it is striking and thought provoking. In Saul Bellow's most recent novel, Ravelstein, there is a passage about the splitting of the self, sun and moon, and the everlasting search, perhaps through lifetimes, for one's soul mate. Thanks, Brett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:46:40 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Fwd: petrified wood - anima rising Return-path: From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Full-name: RoseMJoy Message-ID: <46.1014d4e3.27ac13f6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:45:26 EST Subject: Re: petrified wood - anima rising To: bcode@istar.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 130 In a message dated 2/2/01 8:30:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, bcode@istar.ca writes: << In Saul Bellow's most recent novel, Ravelstein, there is a passage about the splitting of the self, sun and moon, and the everlasting search, perhaps through lifetimes, for one's soul mate. >> You're welcome Brett. I believe that like Joni we're all searching for love our whole life long. I thought I found mine, but turned out to be a Judas in the end :~( So here I stand, uncompleted, but a one-eyed can see. - -Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:44:01 EST From: LeslieMixon@aol.com Subject: A Strange Boy I've been wondering about the following lines from "A Strange Boy": "Now I am surf rising Now parched ribs of sand at his side" Is Joni comparing the "woman of the song" to the ocean crashing on to the strange boy as he lays on the beach? "I crashed into his arms..." Thoughts? Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 06:45:21 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: petrified wood - anima rising > In Saul Bellow's most recent novel, Ravelstein, there is a passage about the > splitting of the self, sun and moon, and the everlasting search, perhaps > through lifetimes, for one's soul mate. > > Thanks, > > Brett Just wanted to say 'Welcome Back' to Brett! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:08:05 -0500 From: slarty Subject: Re: Joni's paintings on the net? I might add: You may be thinking of my old site titled Slarty's Home Page at http://millennium.fortunecity.com/sherwood/452/ On the icon page you'll find those pictures, which are basically the same as on the shiny toys site except I don't update the old site anymore. Ken Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Are you thinking of Ken's "Shiny Toys" section of JMDL? There are a ton of > jpg files at > http://www.jmdl.com/shinytoys/art/ > > and a Windows screen saver at > > http://www.jmdl.com/shinytoys/icons.cfm > > Hope this helps. > Lama > > Richard asked: > [[I know I asked this before here a few weeks ago, but didn't get any > response. > I lost a lot of my data in a crash (it happens. Back it up!). > And...I remember there was a site (not the 'official' site) but . . . > someone's site, that had a lot of her paintings from the Mendell and maybe > a few others, on it, that I wanted to use as 'desktop'. ]] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:27:19 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Strange Boy In a message dated 2/2/01 10:12:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, LeslieMixon@aol.com writes: << 've been wondering about the following lines from "A Strange Boy": "Now I am surf rising Now parched ribs of sand at his side" Is Joni comparing the "woman of the song" to the ocean crashing on to the strange boy as he lays on the beach? "I crashed into his arms..." Thoughts? Leslie >> We got high on travel And we got drunk on alcohol And on love the strongest poison and medicine of all See how that feeling comes and goes Like the pull of moon on tides Now I am surf rising Now parched ribs of sand at his side I think that she's comparing how love comes and goes to the waxing and the waning of the moon. Fullness, then emptiness. Just her creative style of poetry. Just my 2 cents - -Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:13:04 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark or Travis To: Megan ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:09 PM Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches > > Maybe you or someone out there could help me with " Petrified > wood > > process tall timber down to rock". > > I've never been really sure what she's getting at here, either, Megan. > She refers to Anima as a 'vengeful little goddess' earlier in the song > so maybe she's talking about a wooden or stone idol. I don't know, > but I've always gotten the sense that the man is somehow saying that > her independence & strength do nothing but emasculate him - they > change his stature & strength into something broken down & useless - > process tall timber down to rock. > > Just speculating here. Anyone else care to weigh in? I agree that > this song is one of her most puzzling. To me this one reads more like > a poem than almost any of her other lyrics. I wonder if she would > 'smell a rat' if someone else had written it? ;-) > > Mark in Seattle > > Hi Mark, I really like your interpretation of" petrified wood process tall timber down to rock"--it makes the most sense of any explanation of this line I've heard to date, probably having something to do with viewing this from the male perspective. But "Anima rising" to me is not an idol, but rather she is speaking about a woman's consciousness being raised ( another definition of "anima" is "consciousness" or "soul"). So when she says, > Anima rising >Uprising in me tonight >She's a vengeful little goddess >With an ancient crown to fight I believe here she's referring to that when a woman is in a demeaning relationship with a man who makes her feel subjugated and inferior, & then slowly has her 'consciousness' raised, that woman then becomes not only empowered by this knowledge,but can become 'vengeful' towards the man who's subjugating her, knocking down her self-esteem, causing her to 'fight' for her 'crown' (her independence). This also has meaning because 'the goddess' has great significance in the women's liberation movement & has for many years. We have to keep in mind,too, that this song was written in ' 75, only a few short years after the movement's inception, when 'women's lib' was still at a fever pitch, unlike the complacency that's overtaken it nowadays.The whole song is filled with this sense of a woman being empowered( perhaps even for the first time in a relationship). Yet, it is also rife with sorrow and guilt, and I believe she is appealing to the Madonna herself (as she also refers to her at the end of the song) when she says, > Queen of Queens >Wash my guilt of Eden >Wash and balance me Women since the beginning of time have felt guilt over the 'original sin' referring to the temptation of Eve in the Garden of Eden); I can remember feeling shame myself as a child being taught in Catholic school that mankind lost Paradise through the fault of a woman(Eve).Women have felt guilty for a long time over a variety of things in society, and the need to be washed & cleansed of our sense of guilt is important to us all, and helps us in starting over,or starting anew. Thanks again, Mark for your interpretation of that line--for me, you really nailed it( a tough thing to do-that's the most ambiguous line in the whole song!) Now, if only I could figure out, I'd really have it made! Best wishes, Megan :~) NP: JM-Second Fret Sets Vol I- "Carnival in Kenora" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:29:50 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's paintings on the net? In a message dated 2/2/01 10:15:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, slarty@sympatico.ca writes: << might add: You may be thinking of my old site titled Slarty's Home Page at http://millennium.fortunecity.com/sherwood/452/ >> That's the one I was thinking of. Hi Ken! - -Rose in NJ who in case you didn't notice is in post mode. now on her second cup of coffee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:17:07 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Lake of Pontoon Planes Lindsay wrote: >No, you're not. I'm currently trying to transcribe the audio interviews >for Les's site and am working on the WMMR interviews with Gene Shay, Part >1. She says that she made up that story I think just to see if people >would believe it. Here's the excerpt: Of course, I'll be seeing Gene in Vancouver in a couple of weeks, if there's any details you'd like me to clarify. Hey, I can drop names with the best of 'em! :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:15:40 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: A Strange Boy leslie asked: >>> "Now I am surf rising Now parched ribs of sand at his side" Is Joni comparing the "woman of the song" to the ocean crashing on to the strange boy as he lays on the beach? Thoughts? This is one of my favorite songs by Joni and I've given it a lot of thought over the years. To me, these lines are another way of indicating extremes. Water represents her emotions; the "surf rising" is indicative of a glut of emotion and the "Parched ribs of sand at his side" represents her being devoid or "barren," if you will, of emotion. In my own relationships there exists a huge dichotomy at times; there is rarely middle ground with me, more often there are extremes of emotion and they hinge on my personal relationships. Not that this is necessarily a good thing... I know my own failings all too well, but I think the majority of people have extremes when it comes to being in love. Just my thoughts on it. Cassy NP: John Mayall "What Passes For Love" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:21:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Strange Boy Leslie, for me, this is the whole thought... "See how that feeling comes and goes Like the pull of moon on tides Now I am surf rising Now parched ribs of sand at his side" Joni's talking about her ambiguous feelings for the strange boy, and says her feelings for him come & go, ebb & flo, like the tides. She then uses the second line as a segue to take her 'out of the city & down to the seaside' to take the metaphor one step further. Surf rising is a very active, physical motion, and the 180 of that would be to be stretched out on the beach relaxing. Those are the extremes of her emotions for this guy, and they're great contrasts! I've been in the ocean when it tosses me ass over appetite, nothing I can do to control it, and when I stretch out in the sand I'm prone to fall asleep because I get so relaxed. Matter of fact, the first time I met Nikki was when she woke me up when I was coppin' some Z's on the sand! Bob NP: Tracy Chapman, "For You" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:52:14 EST From: LeslieMixon@aol.com Subject: Parched Ribs of Sand Since I'm a visually oriented person in my mind's eye I can see those "parched ribs" as mounds of sand on the beach that are created by the tides. It's great how everyone has their own "take" on Joni's lyrics - that's part of the magic, they are so open to interpretation. We can look at them literally or figuratively, from both sides now. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:23:42 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Parched Ribs of Sand In a message dated 2/2/01 12:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, LeslieMixon@aol.com writes: << It's great how everyone has their own "take" on Joni's lyrics - that's part of the magic, they are so open to interpretation. We can look at them literally or figuratively, from both sides now. Leslie >> Hi Leslie! Yes, just like a painting. Everyone feels and sees something differently :~) Rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 13:17:06 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Superbowl (wasJaco Who Loves You?) This is funny because after the first quarter of the Super Bowl I was so infuriated with the announcers that I turned off the volume on the tv and watched the game to S&L,HOSL,and FTR, it made for the best one I have ever watched! >From: JRMCo1@aol.com >Reply-To: JRMCo1@aol.com >To: >Subject: Re: Superbowl (wasJaco Who Loves You?) >Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:58:53 EST > >I wasn't gonna bore you guys with this coincidental minutia, but this segue >is just too tempting. Re: this year's Super Bowl, I got grins from the >fact that the man who plays center on the Baltimore Ravens, the winning >team, is named "J. Mitchell." It's emblazoned on the back of his uniform >shirt. Many millions saw "J. Mitchell" every time the Ravens had the ball, >which was alot. I wonder how many others across the globe made the >association. (For the uninitiated, the center is the guy sho "snaps" the >football to the quarterback to begin every play from scrimmage. The >quarterback is the guy who...aw, skip it.) :-) > >-Julius > > ><this morning and stopped on a sports shos called The Game and it caught my >ear cause they were talking about the very first SuperBowl and the fact >that >there is no footage of it (which I thought strange). Both announcers said >something about "you never know what you have untill its gone". Both guys >thanked Joni Mitchell and while one sited the fact that they put up a >parking lot, the other muttered something about a Big Yellow Taxi. I >laughed >out loud cause once again it shows how prolific and wide she reaches, even >the jocks are hip to Joni!>> _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:17:20 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: A Strange Boy >>> Water represents her emotions; the "surf rising" is indicative of a glut of emotion and the "Parched ribs of sand at his side" represents her being devoid or "barren," if you will, of emotion. <<< I meant to add, that she finds the relationship draining. Cas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:26:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lake of Pontoon Planes - --- Lindsay Moon wrote: > I'm glad you spelled Kenora for me. I think I was > about to spell it > "Canora" (but I probably would have double-checked > around Les's site before > finalizing it ; ) There is Kenora, Ontario - and Canora, Saskatchewan. So I wonder if Joni really did mean Kenora or Canora? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:42:50 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: How??? - --- Richard Rice wrote: > Hi all, > > Regarding Mingus composing with a tape recorder... > > How does one hum a jazz chord??? > The same way you clap with one hand? ;) Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:44:53 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: New photos of colored Joni prints I just wanted to let everyone know that I loaded some new photos today of the colored Joni prints. There are two new images, and three of the original ones have been reworked. I left the original versions of the reworked drawings just so you can see how they've changed. I've also put suggested donations (ranging from $40 to $75). You can see the price by holding your mouse over the thumbnail, or double click to see a larger version along with the pricing information. As a reminder, any money made off of these images will be donated to the JMDL and jonimitchell.com. The images can be seen by using this address: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1483358&a=11175685 If you have any questions, please email me directly. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:57:33 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Your nachos? Liberation, doll! Adding to the swirl of confusion around the lyrics to DITS: Maybe you or someone out there could help me with "Petrified wood process tall timber down to rock". my take on this is that the speaker (he) is saying "so what you feel all independant and full of a firey feminine spirit-sooner or later you'll be stuck in your ways like the rest of us!" "She refers to Anima as a 'vengeful little goddess' earlier in the song so maybe she's talking about a wooden or stone idol..." Anima is actually the bit of femininity present in the male unconscious (animus is the bit of masculinity in the female unconscious). These are terms coined by psychologist Carl Jung. See the book Man and His Symbols, by Jung, et.al. for a lengthy explanation. Technically, women woulden't have an anima, only an animus. In the lyric to DITS Joni is either misunderstanding Jung's concept (easy enough to do), or blatently ignoring it in an attempt (in the lyric anyways) to connect herself with a feminine power. __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:56:45 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: petrified wood - --- BarBearUh wrote: > "don't interrupt the sorrow" is one of my top 10 > joni songs, and i've > honestly never thought about what it means, i've > always just liked the > poetry, the melody, the arrangement, the attitude. > now that i take a > look at it, i think this is truly a feminist song - > anima rising - the > feminine rising up to claim the ancient crown. the > imagery suggests a > man in a bar, and a female figure part waitress part > girlfriend...? I imagine the two of them boozing it up somewhere, (a room full of glasses... 17 glasses, Rhine wine... bring that bottle kindly and I'll pad your purse). The "pad your purse" phrase does suggest he could be talking to a waitress. I see it more as a case of him acting superior - it's his way of saying, "Just shut up and pass the bottle, and I'll make it worth your while." But she has had it with him by now. I wonder if she has been dependent on this guy financially as well as emotionally and is now so pissed off she's about to dump him and break free? They have it out while they're getting drunk - he wants to keep on the way things have been going, but she wants to change. Despite the time that has passed between this song and "Lead balloon", doesn't it kind of fit in with "Kiss my ass, I said, and I threw my drink..."? Another angry woman song. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:00:22 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Re: Lake of Pontoon Planes >There is Kenora, Ontario - and Canora, Saskatchewan. >So I wonder if Joni really did mean Kenora or Canora? The seaplane operation I read the article about was in Kenora. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:14:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches - --- Megan wrote: > Now, if only I could figure out, > > I'd really have it made! How about this? People, usually women, were burned at the stake for being "witches". These so-called witches were often wise women or healers - they had a power or an insight that many people didn't have (thus prophets), but because they didn't fit into the usual norm, or because someone else was jealous of them, they would be cast into the role of "witch" or heretic and burned. So maybe if you're "polite" and you act the way others expect you to act, you won't be burned (literally or figuratively.) Somehow I don't think I'm expressing this very well, so hope you understand what I mean. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:14:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches - --- Megan wrote: > Now, if only I could figure out, > > I'd really have it made! How about this? People, usually women, were burned at the stake for being "witches". These so-called witches were often wise women or healers - they had a power or an insight that many people didn't have (thus prophets), but because they didn't fit into the usual norm, or because someone else was jealous of them, they would be cast into the role of "witch" or heretic and burned. So maybe if you're "polite" and you act the way others expect you to act, you won't be burned (literally or figuratively.) Somehow I don't think I'm expressing this very well, so hope you understand what I mean. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:21:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lake of Pontoon Planes - --- Steve Dulson wrote: > >There is Kenora, Ontario - and Canora, > Saskatchewan. > >So I wonder if Joni really did mean Kenora or > Canora? > > The seaplane operation I read the article about was > in Kenora. > -- Well, I think if she *had* meant Canora, Sask, she probably would have spelled it that way. If you have nothing better to do (I have lots of better things to do, just don't feel like doing any of 'em just now, thank you very much!) check out these websites (the Canora one is kind of cute.) http://www.canora.com/town.html http://www.lakeofthewoods.com/ Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:44:43 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches In a message dated 2/2/01 4:28:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: << So maybe if you're "polite" and you act the way others expect you to act, you won't be burned (literally or figuratively.) Somehow I don't think I'm expressing this very well, so hope you understand what I mean. >> You've explained it perfectly Catherine. That's how I interpret her lyrics here as well. I know some of you may not want to hear this, but Joni has been influenced by Occultism (The Tarot, Astrology, I Ching) at some point in her life. Scorpions are attracted to such things and it was very popular in the 60's/early seventies. I think Wally can vouch for me on this one as we've discussed this. It's just been my observation and the way I see things. - -Rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:43:04 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches - ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine McKay To: Megan ; Mark or Travis ; Cc: Mark or Travis ; Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches > > --- Megan wrote: > > Now, if only I could figure out, > > > > I'd really have it made! > > How about this? People, usually women, were burned at > the stake for being "witches". These so-called > witches were often wise women or healers - they had a > power or an insight that many people didn't have (thus > prophets), but because they didn't fit into the usual > norm, or because someone else was jealous of them, > they would be cast into the role of "witch" or heretic > and burned. So maybe if you're "polite" and you act > the way others expect you to act, you won't be burned > (literally or figuratively.) Somehow I don't think > I'm expressing this very well, so hope you understand > what I mean. > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca Hi Catherine, I do indeed. So, like the "prophet witches", she felt "martyred" for her beliefs( e.g. women's liberation, strong, independent vision) by the SOP in this relationship, forced to act "polite", and to 'know her place'. This makes total sense to me, IMO, and in the context of the song.It just fits perfectly--thank you so much for your post.After all these years, this song is starting to come together for me like pieces to a puzzle.Your input is greatly appreciated. All the best, Megan :~) NP: JM-Second Fret Sets-"Ballerina Valerie" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:16:19 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: petrified wood There have been some interesting interpretations on this, but my take is this: She's arguing with this guy (who seems very egocentric and chauvanistic) saying women have been downtrodden for too long. The lines: > anima rising > queen of queens > wash my guilt of eden seem to be saying "I'm not going to be held responsible for Eve's actions with the apple and the snake" then later when she says: > i'm leaving on the 1:15 > you're darn right > since i was seventeen > i've had no one over me > he says "anima rising - > so what - > petrified wood process > tall timber down to rock!" She's saying that she's an independent woman, and that she does as she pleases. His response is very chauvanistic and belittling: "Yeah, well, you can fight that battle as long as you like - but it takes thousands of years for wood to turn to stone, and that's how long it'll take women to be equal with men." Just my two cents... Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:58:02 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Parched Ribs of Sand Leslie wrote: > Since I'm a visually oriented person in my mind's eye I can see those > "parched ribs" as mounds of sand on the beach that are created by the tides. The beach we used to go to when I was a child always had these "ripples" on the sand - I used to love the effect, especially when the sun was low in the sky, and you'd get the shadows working as well. But could this lyric also be referring to the biblical "woman was made from Adam's rib?" The fact that she says "ribs at his side" always made me think of this. > It's great how everyone has their own "take" on Joni's lyrics - that's part > of the magic, they are so open to interpretation. > > We can look at them literally or figuratively, from both sides now. I love this as well, and I love the fact that there are several of these discussions happening at the moment. I tend not to analyse Joni's lyrics too much, but it does make things more interesting. And the Only-Joni people must be loving it! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:22:04 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Parched Ribs of Sand In a message dated 02/02/2001 3:15:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << But could this lyric also be referring to the biblical "woman was made from Adam's rib?" The fact that she says "ribs at his side" always made me think of this. >> Both great takes. I've always loved this set of lyrics and always took it to mean that with: "now I am surf rising," she, as a person, is pretty substantial and powerful within this relationship. Her identity is not lost to his identity and his needs. With "parched ribs of sand at his side" I see the lows in a relationship where you are not sure where you are. Are you feeling strong and confident? Or are you just some inconsequential speck of sand clinging to his side? Jackson Browne has a great line about lovers and one's sense of self in relationships that works well with my interpretation. From "Sky Blue and Black," it goes: "where the touch of a lover ends and the soul of the friend begins, there's a need to be separate and a need to be one and a struggle neither wins." "Strange Boy" and its many images gets a top slot in my list of favorite Joni images. MG np: peace and quiet before the school kids come home PS Thanks Leslie for the pork website!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:45:43 EST From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Joni cover I couldn't find reference to this cover on JMDL /Joni uncovered or the Looking for list....it may be an instrumental cover....I can't recall. Song: Both Sides, Now Artist: Nitty Gritty Dirt Band Title: Will The Circle Be Unbroken Release date : 1972 I was reminded of this Dirt Band LP recently because it has the song "The Tennessee Stud" on it and I just received an incredible live version of Gillian Welch doing that tune...my second fave to her phenomenal live version of "Caleb Meyer". I may buy the NGDB release soon (again), from what I recall it is excellent and has lots of big name country artists accompanying the band. It is available on CD although it could be pricey considering it was a 3 LP set. Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:55:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: petrified wood yeah, i always thought so, hell. the guy's saying, '' whoa, whoa, whoa, the bitch thinks that because she's got all this shit she learnt at school she's gonna set herself free. baby, not in million years. nature made you a man's slave: that's you're guilt of eden: you'll serve your man and you'll give birth in pain. now go get me a drink or better yet, shut up and blow me.'' [the latter added by me for extra drama!] wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de hell Enviado el: Viernes, 02 de Febrero de 2001 07:16 p.m. Para: JMDL Asunto: Re: petrified wood There have been some interesting interpretations on this, but my take is this: She's arguing with this guy (who seems very egocentric and chauvanistic) saying women have been downtrodden for too long. The lines: > anima rising > queen of queens > wash my guilt of eden seem to be saying "I'm not going to be held responsible for Eve's actions with the apple and the snake" then later when she says: > i'm leaving on the 1:15 > you're darn right > since i was seventeen > i've had no one over me > he says "anima rising - > so what - > petrified wood process > tall timber down to rock!" She's saying that she's an independent woman, and that she does as she pleases. His response is very chauvanistic and belittling: "Yeah, well, you can fight that battle as long as you like - but it takes thousands of years for wood to turn to stone, and that's how long it'll take women to be equal with men." Just my two cents... Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:58:56 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches Rose said: >>> I know some of you may not want to hear this, but Joni has been influenced by Occultism (The Tarot, Astrology, I Ching) at some point in her life. Scorpions are attracted to such things and it was very popular in the 60's/early seventies. I think Wally can vouch for me on this one as we've discussed this. <<< I've been watching this thread and can't help but think that Joni is familiar with the Goddess Kali. Kali is the epitome of the vengeful goddess. Kali says: "I AM the Annihilator of all and anything that is not worthy of keeping." " . . . Blessed ones, you must march forward. Thus, you have sung the song to the Sun that is sung by pilgrims marching to the Sun away from dead and dying worlds. This is the true march and the singing as they face the Light and never look back but march on on that Cosmic Highway." "And therefore, these ones, having, as it were, Ribbons of Light flowing behind them as attachment to the etheric spheres of their home stars, become as those who take the best and leave the rest and thus take home the harvest in their Spheres [Causal Bodies] of Light and let the rest wait for the dissolution of worlds. (ring a bell? "you imitate the best and the rest you analyze"?) "Therefore, when you make the call, I, Kali, shall release that Sacred Fire into the core of evil. Let the call go forth! For I AM here and I have had enough. And I say, enough is enough!" If anyone is interested in tying this in with DITS more information can be found at: http://www.ascension-research.org/kali1.htm Cassy NP: Joe Sample "Ashes to Ashes" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:03:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni cover << Song: Both Sides, Now Artist: Nitty Gritty Dirt Band >> Hey Maurice! That IS in fact an instrumental, and it's by Randy Scruggs. It's on one of the Volume 2 CD's, really a very pretty version! Bob NP: Hole, "Hit So Hard" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:20:19 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Covert complicity;notches In a message dated 2/2/01 7:07:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, cassysweet@msn.com writes: << I've been watching this thread and can't help but think that Joni is familiar with the Goddess Kali. Kali is the epitome of the vengeful goddess. >> Remember the Donovan song, that Judy Collins had a cover of:"Sunny Goodge street"?There is a mention of the Kali Goddess in that song. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:00:38 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Joni Cover Alert I can't remember if anyone has already posted about this, but I heard a short interview with Brian Kennedy on London Live this evening, on which it was mentioned that his forthcoming compilation album will include a Joni cover - and guess what, it's another version of A Case of You. After Diana Krall's version, I'm not sure anyone else can add much to the song, but let's see; the man can certainly sing. Azeem in London NP: Jill Sobule - Pilar (Things Here Are Different) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:00:43 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Hi folks, some of you may remember a discussion about Darryl Purpose about a year and a half ago (briefly, someone mentioned him, in the context of a recent release, which reminded me of when I'd met him many years previously at a gig in a tiny venue in London - we subsequently exchanged emails, when the lister, whose identity I've forgotten, forwarded my post to the list on to Darryl). Well, he was in town about 10 days ago, so I went to see him. It was a great gig: Darryl is a great songwriter and performer, and a very interesting guy - he used to play blackjack for a living (!) and had some great war stories. I bought one of his CDs, an acoustic, as-live collection, and it's terrific. He has a real gift for story telling, and a wonderful ear for a memorable line. One song starts off with "Mr Schwinn was as thin as a pelican's grin" - isn't that great?! There's another song, called singer-songwriter heaven, which is about what you'd expect, and much better than you could hope for, a worthy companion piece to Leonard Cohen's Tower of Song. Azeem in London NP: silence, thank god - a few minutes ago it was water gushing down from my kitchen ceiling! I had to rouse the couple upstairs from their slumbers (fitting revenge for the number of times they've woken me up with loud music or loud bonking :-) - it was their washing machine, which seems to be sorted now, although I won't be using my oven tomorrow, as a lot of water landed right on it :-( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:24:20 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: strange, strange boy I've been wondering about the following lines from "A Strange Boy": <"Now I am surf rising Now parched ribs of sand at his side"> My take on it goes like this- "surf rising"- she is woman hear her roar, she is robust, confident, energized, capable; powerful..... ( grown-up?) "parched ribs"- now she has been reduced to that rib of Adam's - an extension of HIM -after the surf hit the beach..... ( give me one good reason why?) You know, another brilliant example of duality from our LOTC. Janine Sherman@netrax.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:07:45 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Petrified wood Barbara, How beautifully put. I was basically attempting to say the same thing, only I'm not as eloquent as you are. I love this song, too, which is why I chose your below quote as one of my favorite Joni images.The song is both uplifting and empowering at the same time. I never tire of hearing it. Take care, Megan :~) the ancient crown.The imagery suggests a man in a bar, and a female figure part waitress, part girlfriend...? >What's completly unclear to me is whether the first time the anima rises- > anima rising > queen of queens > wash my guilt of eden > wash and balance me > anima rising > uprising in me tonight > she's a vengeful little goddess > with an ancient crown to fight > -- if it is a strength arising in the woman,or the feminine spirit rising in the man.The verse in and of itself >suggests the latter, but when she leaves, it seems the former-- > I'm leaving on the 1:15 > you're darn right > since I was seventeen > I've had noone over me > he says,"anima rising-- > so what-- > Petrified wood process > tall timber down to rock!" > To me this says it takes a very very long time to make a sea change and that women are not going to get >their equal position for ages to come, that he's brushing off her feminist position. > barbara > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #39 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?