From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #34 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, January 30 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 034 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work [JRMCo1@aol.com] Favorite Joni image ["Megan" ] Joni's poetic genius [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Brian Blade Interview-SJC [Catherine Udall Turley ] RE: favorite Images ["Blair Fraipont" ] re: Covert Complicity, notches ["c Karma" ] Anniversary of Gene Autry show... [Steve Dulson ] Re: Anniversary of Gene Autry show... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: New Web Site With Joni Content/Favorite albums ["Paul Pennington" ] Re: New Web Site With Joni Content/Favorite albums [Randy Remote ] The Midnight Cowboy Song [Gary Zack ] Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work [Vince Lavieri ] the image of a seagull [Steve Dulson ] Fave Joni lines ["kerry" ] Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work ["Jim L'Hommedieu"] Favorite Joni Imagery [Merk54@aol.com] Case of You ["Kate Bennett" ] "When I Was a Boy" ["Kate Bennett" ] Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work ["Janine ] Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work ["Janine Sherman" ] Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] favorite image [BarBearUh ] Covers volume 13 ["Deb Messling" ] Fave Joni images from fave twisty phrases [dsk ] Re: Covert Complicity, notches ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: What's your favorite Joni album? [dsk ] Re: favorite image [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: What's your favorite Joni album? [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re:Favorite aLBUM ["Jack Neilson" ] Re: Covert Complicity, notches ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Anniversary of Gene Autry show... ["Kakki" ] Favorite Joni lines/images ["Kakki" ] Joni on 2001 Grammy Nominees CD [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:20:43 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work Sometimes I think I love them all, but these speak to me with profundity lately: "There's a man who's climbed a mountain And he's calling out her name And he hopes her heart can hear three thousand miles He calls again..." "And I dreamed I saw the bombers Riding shotgun in the sky Turning into butterflies Above our nation..." "I met you on a midway at a fair last year And you stood out like a ruby in a black man's ear..." "Everything comes and goes Marked by lovers and styles of clothes..." - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:34:59 -0500 From: "Megan" Subject: Favorite Joni image Here's my favorite "serious" Joni image: >Anima rising > Queen of Queens >Wash my guilt of Eden >Wash and balance me >Anima rising >Uprising in me tonight >She's a vengeful little goddess >With an ancient crown to fight and my favorite "fun" Joni image is: >The Botticelli black boy >With the fuchsias in his hair >Is breathing in women like oxygen >On the Spanish stairs -------Megan :~) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:03:11 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Joni's poetic genius Here's a thread I never tire of; the lines that spring to mind first tend to be from Hejira, viz: Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps In the grey decay They chew the last few dollars off old Beale Street's carcass Carrion and mercy And: In the church they light the candles And the wax rolls down like tears There is the hope and hopelessness I've witnessed thirty years And: A thousand glass eyes were staring In a cellar full of antique dolls And yes, it is my favourite album, to answer the other question. Azeem in London PS I also love those lines from A Case Of You which have been cited on the list, and remember snorting with derision at Brian Hinton's complete inability to grasp them in his much maligned book. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:30:40 -0700 From: Catherine Udall Turley Subject: Re: Brian Blade Interview-SJC Elizabeth Udall wrote: > Don't know if anyone has seen this but there is an interview with Brian > Blade in The Onion. Mentions how Joni was his greatest musical influence. > It's a short article but thought people might be interested. > You can find it at: > > http://avclub.theonion.com/bonusfeature1.html > (Hey Tebber :-) And for all things Brian Blade, might I recommend, Jane Siberry's cd "Maria." His drumming is freaking brilliant on this brilliant album. Apparently she sought him out for a jazz collaboration a little prior to his working with Joan. From Jane's website (www.sheeba.ca) "For Maria, Siberry assembled a band from scratch. At the core is the rhythm section anchored by drummer Brian Blade, best known for his work with jazz wunderkind Joshua Redman and producer/recording artist Daniel Lanois. "I first saw Brian play with Daniel Lanois at a festival. He had on a pair of white pants made out of good quality linen. We understood each other immediately," Siberry recalls. "I knew if I were to do this record on such short notice, I needed a rhythm section that had already worked together, so I asked Brian to choose a bass player." Blade recruited stand-up bass player Christopher Thomas who also works with Redman as well as Betty Carter." I know that there are Sib fans on the list (Hi Azeem!) who have sung her praises here before, but at last, I have discovered "Maria' and 'When I Was a Boy' several years after their original release dates, and I can't freaking stop listening to them. It is Siberry invasion at my house--in the car, in the boombox, in the tapedeck, in the dvd player, in the cd changer, in the mini-disk player, MP3s on the computer. She'd be in my walkman, but it is still packed in a box somewhere (with a Joni tape in it no doubt). Oh, I've said freaking twice in this post. A sure indication that its time to sign off for now-- Catherine T., freaking in the Great Northwest (Third time's a charm . . .) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:32:32 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work I am from the Sunday school I sing soprano in the upstairs choir You are a holy man On the F.M. radio Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:10:01 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: New Web Site With Joni Content/Favorite albums The entire metaphor of a seagull representing freedom is > just too bJohn Livingston Seagullb to really make any sense as anything > other that a tired clichC)." Just for the record, the album "Jonathan Livingston Seagull", recorded by Neil Diamond, was not released until 1973, five years after "Song to a Seagull". They happen to be two of my favorite albums and neither one really rings of a cliche in my opinion-I find them very different in fact. But if any claim is to be made, Joni's album was the first. The only other song I can think of that uses the image of a seagull is a Bad Company song. While we're on the subject of favorite Joni Albums, I find it impossible to pick one favorite. In the past year or so, I've been very drawn to Hejira and HOSL. The very first Joni I ever heard was STAS, and in many ways, it will always be my favorite for it just completely enchanted me and I've never been the same ever since. (I even wrote a song once called "Song for a Seagull" which I hope to record soon.) A casual friend in college (1988) just happened to lend me a copy and up to that point, the only Joni Mitchell I had heard was CSNY covering Woodstock. Interestingly enough, the copy he lent me was on cd. I used to still buy alot of vinyl when I was in college, so I soon went out and picked up several of her records in the used vinyl store. Not long after that, I formed a duo with my friend Nancy and we played originals and Joni songs. Gosh, so many memories start flooding back when I think about those days... I must add in closing, that BSN, the album, also ranks up there as one of my favorite. I wasn't really sold on it until I went to the Chastain show and saw an unbelievable live performance. It really brings home to me, what an impact seeing someone live has. You can't really get the same impression until you actually see someone and listen to them in person. I'll never forget sitting a couple of feet in front of James Taylor and just sinking into my seat. Victor Johnson http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson "Just beyond the morning falls the river of your dreams, Escaping from the day these wild creatures run away." Victor Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:37:22 EST From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: New Web Site With Joni Content and a Joni Section In a message dated 1/28/01 6:20:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > (Rolling Stone did NOT call HOSL the > year's worst album, but rather the year's worst album COVER.) > Hi Bob, Rolling Stone called HOSL the worse Album TITLE of the year (not the worst cover or the worst album of the year, as it is often thought). BTW, I recently purchased a book called "The 100 Greatest Album Covers in Rock and Roll" and HOSL is listed (they are not listed in any order). All the best, Stephen (who loves everything about HOSL and never understood why Rolling Stone said this) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:59:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New Web Site With Joni Content and a Joni Section <> Thanks for setting me straight, Stephen, I *knew* that but I had so much steam coming outta my ears I couldn't think clearly or see through the smoke! ;~) Bob NP: The Breeders, "Cannonball" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:09:07 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work Blue and silver sparkling drums Cheap guitars, eye shades and guns Aimed at the hot blood of being no one Down and out in Memphis Tennessee Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:15:02 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: re: New Web Site With Joni Content and a Joni Section Well, Kurt I've looked at the Joni section of your new site. To be honest (since you asked for opinions) I'd have to give you mixed reviews. (Just so you know, I'm an award winning technical writer, editor, and Web site designer. I'm speaking here as a professional - not so much as someone who likes Joni's music.) The writing: You could use an editor. Although sentences in your style could work fine on a printed page, shorter sentences and paragraphs work well on a Web site. You're also missing a slew of commas - but that's just the editor in me :-) The layout: Good layout and interesting color scheme. You haven't attempted anything too technically tricky, but what you've done works well. I'm from the 'make lots of short pages' school, so that's what I'd recommend. However, I do recognize there's equal support for longer and fewer pages. The content: I'm not going to focus on what you say and whether I agree with it. Some I do; some I don't. I was hoping to find something new and different, however. I didn't. From that point of view, I have to wonder what the 'value-added' is. If you want to generate traffic, you have to offer something to make people want to return. The jonimitchell.com site does that quite nicely, with news updated regularly, for example. [Even a site like amazon.com does this with its recommendations.] One of the hard truths of the Web is that people won't keep coming back solely for your opinion. You need something to make it worth their while. One final comment: Get rid of the 'click here to enter' page. It's my personal pet peeve. And in all the Web design classes and usability seminars I've taken it's strongly discouraged. You might want to check out "Don't Make Me Think! A Common Sense Approach to Web Site Usability" by Steve Krug. It's very readable and offers lots of good info about creating usable Web sites. Hope this helps. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:46:18 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: most admired image In a highway service station taken over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth taken coming back from the moon. And you couldn't see a city on that marbeled bowling ball Or a forest or a highway Or me here least of all. You couldn't see these cold water restrooms or this baggage overload Westbound and rolling taking refuge in the roads. AHHHhhhhh. That felt good. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:24:05 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: RE: favorite Images so so so many, "and there are black babies dancin' tonite" "i remember that time you told me 'love is touching souls' surely you touched mine cause part of yours pours out of me in these lines from time to time" "i went runnin' like a white-assed deer" and finally, the BESt "theres a poppy wreath on a soldier's tomb there's a poppy snake in a dressing room poppy posion--- poppy tourniquet it slitherss away on brass--like mouthpiece spit" blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:12:25 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Covert Complicity, notches "Do your smiles covert complicity, debase as it admires?" -- what's that about? read Pat's post... I think Joni is asking whether her admirer is true in his/her intent. Does the person really mean what he/she is saying or is he/she just hitting on her to advance their own means? Joni has long been surrounded by "thieves and sycophants" within the record industry. I don't think it's uncommon for persons of celebrity to wake up some days feeling like they don't have a true friend in the world. Such feelings of selflessness are frightening, and Joni is no stranger to writing from that perspective. Kinda like the genesis for Sally Field's surprised, "You like me, you really like me." Going out on a limb again on this one (grammatically), I think some confusion arises from two areas: 1. the use of "covert" as a verb, rather than adjective (very efficient, IMHO, to imply paranoia), and 2. the disconnect in the plural relating the second part of the question back to "smiles." Elements of Style would probably rewrite this as, "Does your smile covert (sic) complicity, debase as it admires? As for "you're notches liberation doll", I really don't have a clue. "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow" always seemed more of a stream of consciousness poem, so I just roll with it. But stretch with me, won't you...the image it conjures up for me is one of those inflatable party dolls, the "notches" are belt notches (But who's counting? Rolling Stone?), and the word "liberation" could be construed as sneering derision based on gender (it WAS the '70s). Applying this, I'd guess it isn't a very flattering thing to call someone. No wonder Anima's rising! CC "Somehow the slightest touch of a stranger sets up a trembling in my bones." - -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:34:31 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Anniversary of Gene Autry show... Irish Philip wrote: >You're so right Bob. That's my favourite tape ever. Were any list >members lucky enough to be at the show (Kakki, Steve ?) I'd love to hear >about it. No. The then-hip radio station - KSCA? - was giving out tickets via a phone-in Joni trivia contest. I knew all the answers, of course :) but could never get through as caller thirteen or whatever they were looking for. And Hostess Supreme Kakki wrote: >Arrrrrrrrrrrr! It's only a few minutes drive from me, too. Ah well, >live and learn...I would have fainted to have been there. >Now I'll go kick myself again for good measure ;-) But Kakki, three years later we had the PWWAM taping at which so many of our Joni dreams came true... :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:08:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Anniversary of Gene Autry show... Also, for those who haven't already seen it, there's a wealth of info about the show (courtesy of Sue Mac!)and 2 great pics of Joni performing at JM.com in the "Bio" section. Even if you HAVE seen it, it's always worth a 2nd look, or a 3rd, or...;~) Bob NP: Jonatha Brooke & The Story, "Nothing Sacred" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:54:55 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:06:47 EST > Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work > To: davidsapp@peoplepc.com, joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > "You brush against a stranger, and you both apologize".... Yes sir ree! That IS good stuff! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:37:48 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchells work I am new to the list and just wanted to add my 2cents: given in the night to dark dreams from the dark things she feels she covers her eyes in the x-rated scenes running from the reels and of course: She tapes her regrets to the microphone stand She says "You can't hold the hand of a Rock'n'Roll man-very long Or count on your plans with a Rock'n'Roll man-very long Compete with the fans for your Rock'n'Roll man-For very long The girls and the bands and the Rock'n'Roll man" Also favorite albums (this is hard but it waivers between these) HOSL FTR MOA Blue C&S _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:46:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Couple of questions Don't know if anyone knows anything about either of these, but thought I'd throw them out anyway: 1. I see where The Last Waltz is going to become a DVD. I couldn't locate any details, I'm just wondering if the 'enhanced' version of this wonderful show is going to include any additional Joni! I hope so, obviously, as she played a great set that night! 2. Thanks to Gary Z. for those lyrics to "Midnight Cowboy", or "The Midnight Cowboy Song". As that particular 1969 film is still my favorite of all time, I can't help but think that the song is based on the book/movie. I'm familiar with the movie, but I don't know when the book came out. Nor do I know when Joni wrote the song. Perhaps it was solicited for the movie but not used? Harry Nilsson wrote "I Guess The Lord Must Be In New York City" for the film, and it wasn't used. Anyway, Joni wrote lines that parallel almost exactly with the story of would-be gigolo Joe Buck. Hopefully those of you who are familiar with the Jon-Voight/Dustin Hoffman classic and have seen the lyrics will comment. Bob NP: Jonatha Brooke & The Story, "Is This All" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:18:08 From: "c Karma" Subject: The Midnight Cowboy Song I hope this isn't revisionist history, but I think it's possible that "The Midnight Cowboy Song" (see latest post at jonimitchell.com) was in fact written for the film. I read an interview with Harry Nilsson (songwriting God, IMHO: I hope Joni covers his "Remember " on her yule collection) where in regard to "Everybody's Talkin' At Me" Nilsson said that he and several other songwriters had songs solicited for the film, including Joni. I can't remember who the other writers were, but would love to hear if anyone else remembers this interview, or similar and knows if any of the other submitted songs saw the light of day. CC "A celluloid rider comes to town, cinematic lovers sway." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:39:03 -0500 From: "Paul Pennington" Subject: Re: New Web Site With Joni Content/Favorite albums Hey Victor; Had to chime in to add that Jonathan Livingston Seagull is one of my favorites too. Unlike you, I bought this album soon after it came out. I had almost forgotten about it -- I'll have to pick up a CD. Like you, I'm very fond of Joni's first album. Another "seagull" song with a Joni connection is on Judy Collins' album "Wildflowers". This of course is the 1967 album with her cover of Both Sides Now, but it also contains "Albatross", by Judy herself, which actually mentions seagulls instead in the lyrics. The lovely flute accompaniment also suggests seagulls swooping about, to me at least. Maybe you could play flute AND sing this one at an upcoming gig :-) The new web site mentions that the master tapes for the STAS sessions were damaged. I had forgotten about this, but Brian Hinton mentions it in his book on page 87: "Apparently the master tapes were accidentally damaged, and when they were restored the high notes had lost their clarity: Joni later said it sounded 'like we recorded it under a bell jar.' ... My own vinyl copy shares this airless sound, but the remastered CD is clear as a bell". So, I guess the folks who have only owned the CD will be puzzled by this item on the web site, which is now only of historical interest. The BSN concert in Atlanta was indeed a pleasant evening in Chastain Park, surpassed only by your gracious hospitality at the pre-concert get-together. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia NP: Judy Collins, "Sky Fell" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:53:27 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchells work Great choices! Welcome to the list. blonde in the bleachers wrote: > I am new to the list and just wanted to add my 2cents: > > given in the night to dark dreams > from the dark things she feels > she covers her eyes in the x-rated scenes > running from the reels > > and of course: > > She tapes her regrets to the microphone stand > She says "You can't hold the hand of a Rock'n'Roll man-very long > Or count on your plans with a Rock'n'Roll man-very long > Compete with the fans for your Rock'n'Roll man-For very long > The girls and the bands and the Rock'n'Roll man" > > Also favorite albums (this is hard but it waivers between these) > > HOSL > FTR > MOA > Blue > C&S > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:56:03 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: The Midnight Cowboy Song Don't have any further info on songs written specifically for this movie, but DO know that Everybody's Talkin' was written by Fred Neil, who also penned The Dolphins- covered by many! Stephen in Vancouver "c Karma" on 01/29/2001 11:18:08 AM Please respond to "c Karma" To: joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Stephen Epstein/Agmont) Subject: The Midnight Cowboy Song I hope this isn't revisionist history, but I think it's possible that "The Midnight Cowboy Song" (see latest post at jonimitchell.com) was in fact written for the film. I read an interview with Harry Nilsson (songwriting God, IMHO: I hope Joni covers his "Remember " on her yule collection) where in regard to "Everybody's Talkin' At Me" Nilsson said that he and several other songwriters had songs solicited for the film, including Joni. I can't remember who the other writers were, but would love to hear if anyone else remembers this interview, or similar and knows if any of the other submitted songs saw the light of day. CC "A celluloid rider comes to town, cinematic lovers sway." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:07:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: New Web Site With Joni Content/Favorite albums Victor Johnson wrote: > The entire metaphor of a seagull representing freedom is > > just too bJohn Livingston Seagullb to really make any sense as anything > > other that a tired clichC)." > > Just for the record, the album "Jonathan Livingston Seagull", recorded by > Neil Diamond, was not released until 1973, five years after "Song to a > Seagull". Richard Bach's book "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" was first published in 1970. There was also an album narrated by Richard Harris. I thought it was strange when Diamond's work came out because the whole phenomenon had come and gone. > The only other song I can think of that uses the image of a seagull is a Bad > Company song. There must be lots. I can think of two by David Crosby; "Guinnevere" and "The Lee Shore" and another by Mark-Almond (title? "Home?") In fact most songs written by bouys are about gulls.... .....sorry...... RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:43:24 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Job Changes some JC Chris said, "Other good things? Work when you want, take days off when you feel like it, wear what you want, sing at the top of your voice while working, work with your pets, work in the sunshine in the garden, yada yada yada. LOL. Last weekend, Phyliss told my husband & I her story of meeting joni who was having lunch at 4 pm cuz she's a nightowl. Which has given me a great rationalization for the weird hours I have been keeping since I quit my day job. Just this morning (barely), I stumbled out of bed after working til about 3am, wearing my favorite outfit-- my pink joni t courtesy of russ, some old sweats, & my faux leopard slippers..., poured some coffee, which my husband made (usually I do) so he could have some while it was still morning he said...to which I replied, well I'm a friend of joni... (kinda like people in recovery referring to themselves as friends of bill w.) ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:31:00 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: The Midnight Cowboy Song Hi there all, Bob M. made me think a bit about the Midnight Cowboy Song (by the way, on the album by Donal Leace it is just titled "Midnight Cowboy") but I realize that the web site has it as "The Midnight Cowboy Song" which may well be true, as I discovered in the past that Joni had once or twice changed the name of a song. Marcie, for instance I believe was first called "Portrait In Red And Green" according to the copyright office. I am guessing it's the same song since there are obvious red/green references in Marcie. And it's just like Joni to mix art and music, as in "Portrait....In Red And Green." Just another thing I love about her imagery. I'm not sure there is necessarily a deep, dark, story in "Cowboy" though there might be. Still there are just lines that I love about it, especially the Joniesque, "You were walking kind of faded, from the Netherlands Hotel..." and "There's a soldier in the depot, he's a fighting nightingale..." but regardless, one can get whatever one might identify with from the song. Interestingly, "There's a soldier, in the the depot", fits perfectly as a line for "Cactus Tree." I think that's why I love Joni' music so much. Some of you know that I will be moving back to Los Angeles soon, (from Detroit). Even with a song of Joni's written around 1972 or so, that I hear the first time in the year 2001, and sung by someone else, I find I can still identify with some of the lyrics and they pierce me at the right time. I could always relate personally to every new work she put out. This one, rather ironic, I identified with as I listened, at that moment. "Hey Joe, why don't you go back home? Really hate to see you falling down, get out of town." I need a change in my life right now. I identifed. That's what I think many of us love about Joni's music. We can identify so personally with so many things she says, and it seems she finds us with these songs at the right time in our lives. Any-who, this is hardly a plumb the depths kind of examination of "Cowboy" obviously. But I thought I'd take a plunge, and share something for a change, for what it's worth. Best to you all, Gary P.S. I am forwarding the song on to Bob M., so you can all have a listen on a future covers CD. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:48:21 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work Julius aka JRMCo1@aol.com included as among his admnired lyric: > "And I dreamed I saw the bombers > Riding shotgun in the sky > Turning into butterflies > Above our nation..." And I say yes to that one. And I would also add "All I really really want our love to do is to bring out the best in me and in you too." Peace, and love, just about covers it all. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:25:45 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Seagulls and Sex Kills Welcome to the JMDL, blonde in the bleachers! As a vivid image in Joni's lyrics, I would differ from I think all of the other posts on this one and say that I think "Sex Kills" is right up there. I am very wary of saying this because I am clergy and this is *not* some moralistic rant - you should know me better than that by now - - but sex does indeed sometimes kill. Back in 1996 while working with a bunch of college kids during STD Awareness Week (something we never had when I was that age) which was just about the time - but still before - I got Turbulaent Indigo, I was discussing the whole STD thing with some of my co-workers and one of them looked at me and said, "The difference between your generation and mine is that when you discovered sex, you worried about disease; we worry about death." Take this to Africa now: the debate about whether American pharmacutical companies should market AIDS meds in Africa, or distribute at a reduced price than is done in the US... as South Africa questions whether AIDS is indeed sexually transmitted in the midst of the skyrocketing numbers of AIDS cases in Africa, suspecting that AIDS is a form of biological warfare directed against Africans by whites (which sounds fantatsic to us, but given the history of apartheid, and current bio-chemical warfare trials in SA, a legit question there) ... these are justice issues, and Joni alone shows us that there is another dimension to sex in today's world, it is a justice issue and sex can indeed, in some defined circumstances, kill. The fact that the image, "sex kills", is jarring to so many is because we needed Joni to lift that that dimension of the reality to make us think. It bothers us... it should... Joni disturbs our complacency, and right on to her for that. As well, sex is sometimes used a weapon in personal relationships... and can be a killer that way too. And as far as Jonathan Livingston Seagull... didn't the book by Richard Bach get published around 1969 or 1970, several years before the Neil Diamond album? I recall reading it towards the end of 1969 but I could be off a year or so. I think Joni's Song to a Seagull still predates the book, I think there was a seagull thing going on back then. If Otis Redding in 1967 told us we should be sittin' by the dock of the bay, hey, what are you going to see? Seagulls! So no wonder a few years later seagulls started showing up in words and music. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:25:16 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: the image of a seagull >>The only other song I can think of that uses the image of a seagull is a Bad >>Company song. "And when the gulls fly over the sea you know we'll be thinking of you" From our own Kate Bennett's exquisite "Irene". (Quoted from memory - hope I didn't screw it up!) I pray for healing for Brian, and guidance for Mags. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:50:50 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Fave Joni lines I love everyone's contributions so far. I think I'm going to put them all into one document to read whenever I need a dose of genius! Here are a few more to add: She speaks in sorry sentences Miraculous repentences Only a river of changing faces Looking for an ocean They trickle through your leaky plans Another dream over the dam A wristwatch, a ring, a downstairs screamer Edgy black cracks of the sky Pin-cushion-prick- Fix this poor bad dreamer Sparks fly up from sweet fire Black soot of lady release Long silk stockings On the bedposts of refinement Help! I can't stop!!!! (but I will for now :>D) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:53:30 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work "We are, each of us, so deep and so superficial between the forceps and the stone." Go Brian! Go! Lama, son of Al L'Hommedieu who's life was extended by triple by-pass surgery just 2 years ago. np: The only song by the Rolling Stones that I ever liked: "Happy". It's nice to live in brief period when one can occasionally steal whole singles like this free from wankers who are incredibly rich doing exactly what more talented people have lived lives in the margins doing. (A fleeting thought that I choose not to edit for grammar.) Of course, it certainly doesn't help those in the margins at all. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:53:32 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Favorite Joni Imagery White flags of winter chimneys Waving truce against the moon In the mirrors of a modern bank From the window of a hotel room I find these lyrics very cinematic, almost halucinatory. Everytime I hear them, my brain runs the same imaginary little film clip. It starts with a tight image of the chimneys and the smoke, panning out slowly to reveal the smoke's interplay with the moon. Even though the moon is out, it is just approaching dusk - the sky is a dull, moody grey, while the moon is full and oversized. You can practically feel the frost in the air. There is a great sense of mid-winter melancholy. Slowly, the 'camera' pulls back to reveal strange distortions and abstractions in the image, until it becomes obvious that what is being observed is nothing more than a reflection in the mirrored walls of a downtown building. Your emotions become even more unsettled as you fight to recognize what's real, and what's imagined. It reminds us that what we preceive as reality is often colored by our personal perspectives. Finally the camera retreats even further, to reveal the interior of a hotel room! - and there sit's Joni, alone a t the window, taking a long needed rest from her journeys - this hopeless romantic, trapped in a modern world, ever observing, waiting anxiously to see where life will take her next. All this in only 24 words! Now that's what I call imagery. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:48:07 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Case of You Azeem wrote: derision at Brian Hinton's complete inability to grasp them in his much maligned book Wow, he didn't get Case of You? What's not to get? ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:48:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: "When I Was a Boy" I have discovered "Maria' and 'When I Was a Boy' several years after their original release dates, and I can't freaking stop listening to them. "When I Was a Boy" - is that the one written by Dar Williams? What a GREAT song. ******************************************** Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:54:22 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work These bloodless brides of Jesus If they had just once glimpsed their groom Then they'd know and they'd drop the stones Concealed behind their rosaries They wilt the grass they walk upon They leech the light out of a room They'd like to drive us down the drain This just cuts to the quick for me....... Janine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:58:12 -0500 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work There's a man drawing pictures On the sidewalk with chalk Just as fast as he draws 'em Rain come down and wash 'em off "Keep the drinks comin' girl 'Til I can't feel anything I'm just a chalk mark in a rainstorm Talk about oblivion... Janine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:22:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: what is your most admired image in Mitchell's work << On the sidewalk with chalk >> And I just LOVE LOVE LOVE the chord progression that follows this line...what are those chords? Why do they make me feel the way they do? Musicians & composers, help! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:35:31 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: favorite image lately one of my favorites has been popping into my head often, as i'm working on a video for a national park with a beautiful shot of a plane shadow traversing a glacier with sapphire blue pools... it was just plane shadow to train shadow but to me it was skin to skin snakes in the grass eagles in the sky scales to feathers you and i ...from my favorite album, DJRD barbara np: madredeus, o paraiso ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:40:09 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Covers volume 13 I've just listened to Volume 13 of "Covers and Contributions." Thanks, Bob!! This is an especially tasty disc! I especially like the Lydia Van Dam Group version of "Down to You," although I'll need to warm up to their "Shadows & Light." A lot of folks have mentioned recently that they don't like to hear Joni's songs out of their original album context, but I do! Sometimes I just stop hearing a song because of the familiarity of its context, and hearing the song all by its lonesome helps me appreciate it again. Case in point: Willy, which I NEVER appreciated until I heard her sing it on the Dick Cavett video. Hearing these songs not only out of context but performed by other artists has given me greater appreciation, if that's possible, of Joni's songwriting genius. She's not one of these navel-gazing artistes who are so damn idiosyncratic that no one can cover them (or no one cares to). She has created a body of work that's gone out into the world. In a way it doesn't belong to Joni, it belongs to the ages. It can and will be covered by many people. Some of the covers will be inspired and beautiful, and some will suck big time (see Volume IV). Anyway, thanks again, Bob, for undertaking this covers project. I love it! - ----------------------------------- Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell - ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:42:41 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Fave Joni images from fave twisty phrases but they seem so much confetti lookin' at 'em on my tv set I can never actually get these words out and be in tune at the same time, so I just end up tongue-tied and tickled with these. When Joni does get them out, in tune of course, the words themselves are so broken up it's as though they're confetti too. and We were newly lovers then We were fire in the stiff-blue-haired-house-rules Similar situation, I can't get the words all out in time, and when Joni sings that hyphenated phrase it sounds as stiff to me as a ruler about to rap someone for rambunctious "bad" behavior. The close contrast of unpredictable uncontrollable fire with such rigidity impresses me every time. Debra Shea, enjoying again thinking about Joni's words and wondering if there are any sets of lines that wouldn't impress me... don't think so at the moment in my Joni's-SO-brilliant haze ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:52:03 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Covert Complicity, notches > "Do your smiles covert complicity, debase as it admires?" -- what's that > about? read Pat's post... Ok, had to look at the lyrics sheet on this one to be sure I was right about what it says. First of all the line reads: "Does your smiles covert complicity debase as it admires?" I think there should be an apostrophe in smile's, making it possessive. This makes covert an adjective describing complicity. In other words does that smile posess a hidden agenda that you expect me to be your accomplice in achieving? Are you admiring me, thinking what a beautiful, wonderful person I am or are you undressing me in your mind & thinking of doing very, very naughty & nasty things to me? > As for "you're notches liberation doll", I really don't have a clue. " We've gone over this one before. I still say (and will go to my grave saying it unless Siquomb herself tells me personally that I am dead wrong) that the man is referring to the room full of glasses from the previous line. Those glasses are 'your notches' like a gunfighter's notches on his gunbelt or notches on a bedpost. He's saying, 'You made me a drunk with your independent, uppity, competitive (unfeminine) ways. You can chalk every glass of wine I drank up to your score. They're your notches, liberation doll.' Liberation doll is a sneering & derisive name he's throwing at her. Men used to call women they were attracted to doll at one time. Just watch some of those old Humphrey Bogart movies. That's my story & I'm sticking to it! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:01:23 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: What's your favorite Joni album? Hejira, always, with Night Ride Home as my sentimental second favorite because it sounded clear, like Joni again, and brought back my enthusiasm for her music, which had been greatly lessened by the 80s albums that I bought out of loyalty but could never love the way I loved all the previous ones. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:11:08 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: favorite image A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roof Like a dragonfly on a tomb Big boat chuggin' back with a belly full of cars On your mark red ribbon runner The caressing rev of motors Finely tuned like fancy women In thirties evening gowns Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:12:57 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: What's your favorite Joni album? Tie: Hejira/HOSL/FTR Terry www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:43:51 -0800 From: "Jack Neilson" Subject: Re:Favorite aLBUM If I'm doin this right, just had to say how nice it is to read identical responses to BLUE from the start....There was something SO safe about Blue, for me, at that time in my life....cannot explain it...don't need to..Nothing else has ever come that close .........There was a song for me..........on every cut...... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:24:10 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Covert Complicity, notches - ---- Original Message ----- From: c Karma > "Do your smiles covert complicity, debase as it admires?" -- what's that > about? read Pat's post... My problem with this is not the meaning but the grammar, it's like Jim Morrison saying: If they say I never loved you You know they are a liar It hits me as a mistake, it's a glaring stand out every time I hear it which in the case of the Doors song happens to be more often than I'd like to hear it.). She also says in "Come In From the Cold", which BTW is a song that I love: I feel your legs under the table Leaning into mine I feel renewed I feel disabled By these bonfires in my spine I don't know who the arsonist was Which incendiary soul But all I ever wanted... I used to try to make this conform to some idea of sexual awakening, but the problem was, wouldn't she know who the "arsonist" was if that was the meaning? So I think that she means bon-fires as back-pain, post-polio syndrome, the arsonist being the "incendiary soul" from whom she contracted polio. I t makes sense to me, but ...what is it doing in this song, in this verse? Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net private to CJ: NP Slip Sliding in my head ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:28:55 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Re:Favorite aLBUM > If I'm doin this right, just had to say how nice it is to >read identical responses to BLUE from the >start....There was something SO safe about Blue, for >me, at that time in my life....cannot explain it...don't >need to..Nothing else has ever come that >close .........There was a song for me..........on every >cut...... Well there you are - Hi Jack!!! Glad you came out of lurking! I think Blue must be very close to all of us at some level. It was definitely the songtrack of my life when it came out. But for me it is still obstinately in this order - For The Roses, Song To A Seagull, and Don Juan (then Blue, well maybe Blue transcends them all, too ;-) Great to hear from you! Love, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:42:01 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Anniversary of Gene Autry show... Steve wrote: > No. The then-hip radio station - KSCA? - was giving out tickets via > a phone-in Joni trivia contest. I knew all the answers, of course :) > but could never get through as caller thirteen or whatever they were > looking for. Geesch - too bad we weren't a team back then! ;-) > But Kakki, three years later we had the PWWAM taping at which so > many of our Joni dreams came true... :) Well, yes, it was worth the wait and nothing can ever compare to that night. Never in our wildest dreams and forever pinching ourselves, eh? ;-) Total magic. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:52:21 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Favorite Joni lines/images "We once loved together and we floodlit that time Input - Output - Electricity" ******* "You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes all across the sky They're going to aim the hoses on you Show them you won't expire Not till you burn up every passion Not even when you die." ******** "We move in measures Through loves' changing faces Needy and nonchalant Greedy and gracious Through petty dismissals And grand embraces Like it was only a dance!" ********* "When I was three feet tall And wide-eyed open to it all" Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:36:31 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Joni on 2001 Grammy Nominees CD I just found this bit of news on the Wall of Sound site and thought I'd pass it along, as it may be of interest to all the completists out there. Joni's certainly going to be keeping some interesting company on this disc... [http://www.wallofsound.go.com/news/stories/grammydisc012601.html] Radiohead Meets Aguilera on CD What do 'N Sync's "Bye, Bye, Bye," Macy Gray's "I Try," Radiohead's "Optimistic," and Eminem's "The Real Slim Shady" have in common? They are all up for (or are on albums up for) Grammy Awards. And the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, in conjunction with Capitol Records, is rolling all the nominees onto a new CD collection, 2001 Grammy Nominees. NARAS has released similar compilations over the past seven years, and this year's edition comes in three volumes: a general CD, due Feb. 6; an R&B/Rap CD, also due Feb. 6; and a Latin CD, due Feb. 13. Though the disc may juxtapose some strongly contrasting material -- Eminem and Joni Mitchell? -- NARAS president and CEO Michael Greene is not concerned. "The eclectic mix of tracks contained on the compilations provides a great way for the consumer to hear many different genres of music, which in turn brings them back to the store to buy many of the artists' entire albums," he said in a statement. "We anticipate unprecedented sales on this evergreen project which will once again benefit the important work of the Grammy Foundation." If the success of the chart-topping Now That's What I Call Music compilations is any indication, he may be right. A portion of the profits from sales of the CDs will benefit the Grammy Foundation's music-education programs. The Grammy Awards will be held Feb. 21 at the Staples Center in Los Angeles and broadcast live on CBS. Track listing for 2001 Grammy Nominees: Beck, "Sexx Laws" Eminem, "The Real Slim Shady" Radiohead, "Optimistic" Paul Simon, "You're the One" Steely Dan, "Cousin Dupree" Destiny's Child, "Say My Name" Macy Gray, "I Try" Madonna, "Music" U2, "Beautiful Day" 'N Sync, "Bye, Bye, Bye" Backstreet Boys, "Show Me the Meaning of Being Lonely" Barenaked Ladies, "Pinch Me" The Corrs, "Breathless" Christina Aguilera, "What a Girl Wants" Macy Gray, "I Try" Madonna, "Music" Aimee Mann, "Save Me" Joni Mitchell, "Both Sides Now" Britney Spears, "Oops! ... I Did It Again" ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #34 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?