From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #30 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 27 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 030 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Wuxtry/3'fer/HappySad Music/joni shopping? SJC ["Greer, Ron" ] Toronto,early days ["kerry" ] Re: "Just Ice" ? [mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar] meaning of wuxtry ["Mark Tatum" ] DED JUST ICED ["BRIAN SYMES" ] Re: meaning of fay? ["Rob Ettridge" ] Re: meaning of fay? [jan gyn ] Re: meaning of fay/LJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: Joni and ... Batman - Deja Vu!!! [Merk54@aol.com] Re: "Just Ice" ? [Merk54@aol.com] (no subject) [Jennymac48@aol.com] RE: meaning of fay/LJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: meaning of fay? [Catherine McKay ] more about fay/LJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] The Jungle Line ["william" ] RE: meaning of fay? ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: meaning of fay/LJC ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: meaning of fay? [dsk ] (no subject) [Jennymac48@aol.com] Re: meaning of fay/LJC [dsk ] Re: [peves@marlboro.edu] Re: meaning of fay/LJC ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Wuxtry/3'fer/HappySad Music/joni shopping? SJC ["hell" ] Re: meaning of fay/LJC ["hell" ] Re: meaning of fay/LJC ["hell" ] Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: meaning of fay/LJC [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC ["Kakki" ] my friends review ["Garret" ] Meaning of "fay" [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Wuxtry/3'fer/HappySad Music/joni shopping? SJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Rare unreleased Joni Song [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: meaning of fay? [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: my friends review ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Rare unreleased Joni Song [Mark Domyancich ] Free Man In Paris ["Gerald" ] Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Long ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Long ["Kakki" ] Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Long [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Short ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] This Just IN [Michael Paz ] New Stuff on www.jonimitchell.com , JC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] "Shadows And Light" on video: Out Of Print? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:45:45 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: Wuxtry/3'fer/HappySad Music/joni shopping? SJC Hi >lindsay wrote >the comics) but one thing I haven't figured out. Whenever they have a >newspaper boy calling out the headlines to the passersby, he says, "Wuxtry! >Wuxtry! Joker still alive! Wuxtry!" What does "wuxtry" mean and/or what when in doubt - go to google.com. i found the following page http://www.wuxtry.com/wuxtry.html which explains the origin - a corruption of "extra" as in "extra,extra read all about it" app0arently originating from a different comic strip. Threefer: i was listening to TTT on the way to work & got another 3'fer, "I'm a runaway from the record biz From the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids" 1) record biz 2) hoods in the hood 3) whiny white kids interesting that she is now a runaway from the record biz, while in the days of free man in paris, "the work she'd taken on" kept her from running away to paris - i guess shes tired of it now?? are we the whiny white kids? judging from jennymac's experience joni's not *that* frantic to run away - i get the impression that she was very nice & accessible. funny, i bought TTT straight after i fell in love with TI, as it was touted here as the perfection/culmination of the sound she started with TI. somehow i never got into it. after joining the list i bought "hejira" - played it to death, and somehow its led me back to TTT & i love it now?? doesnt seem like a logical prgression - but it works for me. as far as happy/sad music goes - i guess weve all heard the expression about how it only takes 2 or 3 muscles to smile, but 47,000 (or thereabouts) muscles to frown. perhaps its the same with the creative process? happy music/artistic expression only takes 2 or 3 creative muscles, while sad/dark music/artistic expression takes a whole lot more creative muscle, and is therefore more complex and interesting to the listener/observer? or perhaps people in general are morbid (but i dont think so ) >jennymac wrote >She was just there, at the record store, shopping. She was with some young >guy who looked real annoyed the whole time... >Cool, huh? really, really cool!! but what i really, really want to know - what music was she buying?? what music does she listen to in her spare time? does she kick back with britney & the backstreet boys? or what? ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:57:56 EST From: Mauski4648@aol.com Subject: A message to John van Tiel in the Netherlands Hi John, I tried three time to contact you but the emails always were sent back to me. I would like all the tapes you have with coverings of Joni songs. And I would like to talk to you about the mini Joni Fest in June here in Germany, 1 hour east of Cologne, not too far away from you. Please do drop me a line...Karin from Germany ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:05:04 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Hand colored versions of the Joni Print I just want to say that I think these hand colored prints are FABULOUS!!!! I still have lots of prints sitting in my dining room, and would love to see them go to a good home. *Please* consider helping out with this fundraiser! Buy several! They would make excellent gifts! (And I need to make room in my dining room just "in case" there is a New England Jonifest 2001!) :-) http://www.jmdl.com/prints.cfm and http://www.jonimitchell.com/Fundraiser/Fundraiser.html In addition, a reminder if you love Tape Tree #2, and would like to show your appreciation for all the hard work that went into puttting this 2 volume set into your hands, (believe me, there are a LOT of hours that go into putting Trees together!) you can show your appreciation by sending a check(s) made payable to Jim Johanson and/or Les Irvin to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 USA Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:16:50 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hand colored versions of the Joni Print In a message dated 1/26/01 7:11:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: << just "in case" there is a New England Jonifest 2001!) :-) >> What you talkin about? Now I don't want to be hearing this kind of talk. - -Rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:36:10 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Still more threefer madness I know we've covered this subject pretty thoroughly, but I was just reading Joni's 1979 Rolling Stone interview and she talked about the first record she bought - the theme music from a movie called "The Story of My Three Loves!" Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:46:01 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Toronto,early days Rocky wrote: >>Sorry for being longwinded here, and for this being not really Joni-related.>> No apologies needed! Your story was very interesting AND Joni related - how cool to find those old posters! Sorry about your friend. I bet she had some great stories to tell! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:56:39 -0300 From: mintagli@email.ypf.com.ar Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? >Please, please tell me what there is in this song that is not true because it seems way too vivid and so on the mark.> Victor, I was not refering to the whole song when I used the word "untrue". She's saying lots of truthful things in it (but that doesn't necessarily make a memorable song, does it?) I was only stating that the line "Is justice just ice?" was poor and that it ruined the whole song for me. As for the untruthfulness I alluded to (again, only in that line), I think it resides in the lazy simplification of a very complex matter: reducing justice to just ice. Sure she's asking a question, but to me it sounds like an affirmation in that context, and a simplistic affirmation at that. It's just my interpretation. Mariana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:51:46 -0600 From: "Mark Tatum" Subject: meaning of wuxtry Answer: See www.wuxtry.com/wuxtry.html Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:18:20 -0800 From: "BRIAN SYMES" Subject: DED JUST ICED One Up I went into a major record store yesterday and as alwways checked out the Mitchell section and Found Dog Eat Dog for 5.99 so I take it up to the Cash register and say to the guy behind the Counter"what a deal" He replies "Ya Joni plays a cigarrette machine on one cut and JT is in some of the Vocal's i have it on Vinyl!.Guess Geffen is selling off old Excess. As we all mature we think less on getting "Sex/Love" and more on the world around us. Joni certainly has a sharp knife in writing songs about our American Way of life. Some times people look back at the good old days when life was "simpler and less polluted" but I don't buy that. In Just watching JAZZ/Ken Burns The pictures of a whole White crowd stand around a black body swinging from a popular tree was a crime on the same level as Hilter's final solution but it was an accepted social thing in the south. NP Madeliene Peyroux My Sweet Man - ----------------------- Free Email Service provided to you by Office.com, a service from Winstar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:18:25 -0000 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Re: meaning of fay? >Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? I don't know a dictionary definition of fay, but in England it means 'effeminate in a weak way' or 'flighty' or 'insincere' or 'light-hearted'. I wish I knew a precise definition, but this is roughly what I take it to mean. Anyway, it's certainly not positive, it's used rather dismissively. I think it's Shakespearean as well, but I don't know the exact source. What I think Joni means in FSTB is that she's not a 'serious' blues musician like Furry. Not that she necessarily believes this, but she's being self-degrading/effacing in the same way she is when she says 'I'm not familiar with what you play' or 'while our limo is shining on his shanty street'. A kind of 'I know I'm not worthy, but...' She's admitting that she's just having a passing interest and she'll move onto something else tomorrow. I also think that 'fay'-ness is maybe what Furry accused her of in that article where he is annoyed at the song and her attitude. Of course, this is completely invalid if she has a different meaning to the word 'fay', but that's how I've always read it. Rob - --------------------------------------- 'Reno Dakota, I'm reaching my quota Of tears for the year' - - The Magnetic Fields - --------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:09:22 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: meaning of fay? At 04:18 PM 1/26/01 +0000, Rob Ettridge wrote: >>Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? It means that you got a percentage for starring in that 'King Kong' movie. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:28:32 -0800 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC My older southern relatives used fay in short for ofay - a somewhat derogatory term for a white person. I particularly remember it from my great uncle who used to book gospel and blues musicians on the "chitlin' circuit" in the 20's and 30's. Brenda n.p. - the rain and the Pacific Mark Tatum wrote: > Answer: See www.wuxtry.com/wuxtry.html > > Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:00:29 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and ... Batman - Deja Vu!!! Lindsay wrote: Just seemed funny how the little turns of phrase seem to parallel with some of Joni's choices. I know she's said she was kind of a good-time Charlie in grade school and read lots of comic books ... hmmm. Lindsay, I never knew this, though it reminded of a strange Joni dream I had before TI came out. I dreamt that Joni's new album what titled Comic Books, and the cover was a collage of Joni imbedded into various scenes from famous comic books / strips. I can actually remember pieces of the cover - my favorite being Joni having a conversation with Pogo about environmental issues. The album was a concept album using famous comics as analogies about the ills of society. In the dream I played the whole album, and while I can't remember the songs, I do remember waking up and humming a tune I was completely unfamiliar with. This dream was so vivid, that I told all my friends about it, convinced I had some sort of Psychic revelation. You can imagine my initial disappointment when TI finally came out, and I realized my dream was nothing more than the after effects of too much tequila! Then again, after reading Lindsay's story, maybe there's hope for my dream yet! Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:17:28 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? I struggled with Sex Kills when it first came out, but have grown to enjoy it quite a bit. As far as the Just Ice issue, I think Joni just uses that as a springboard to the rest of the song, which to me is basically a rant on the ills of modern society. I think someone questioned how 'sex kills' fits in with the rest of themes, but I think it's vagueness is part of the point. What does sex have to do with half the products it's used to promote? Wasn't Sex Kills the first single off the album? I think there's more than a touch of irony here, that Joni titled her first single "Sex Kills", especially since most of the song isn't even about sex! Besides, any complaints I have about the song quickly disappear when I hear that blistering lead guitar. My favorite 'rock' guitar lead in any of Joni's songs. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:14:00 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Who is the guy sitting next to Joni at the TNT Tribute? Did he cry when they showed the first slide show? I love the part when the camera catches Joni when she says "PLEASE!" because he bumped into her shoulder twice... Love Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:33:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: meaning of fay/LJC isn't fay 'white''? wallyK > Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:15:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: meaning of fay? "Fay" relates to "fairy". Someone who is "fay" is touched by the fairies, may be a fairy, (the little gossamer-winged type, not like Wally the birthday fairy!) may be a changeling, which would make them flighty, ephemeral, not-quite-there and so on, just as you say. - --- Rob Ettridge wrote: > >Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich > and I'm fay" in FSTB? > > I don't know a dictionary definition of fay, but in > England it means > 'effeminate in a weak way' or 'flighty' or > 'insincere' or 'light-hearted'. > I wish I knew a precise definition, but this is > roughly what I take it to > mean. Anyway, it's certainly not positive, it's > used rather dismissively. > > I think it's Shakespearean as well, but I don't know > the exact source. > > What I think Joni means in FSTB is that she's not a > 'serious' blues musician > like Furry. Not that she necessarily believes this, > but she's being > self-degrading/effacing in the same way she is when > she says 'I'm not > familiar with what you play' or 'while our limo is > shining on his shanty > street'. A kind of 'I know I'm not worthy, but...' > > She's admitting that she's just having a passing > interest and she'll move > onto something else tomorrow. > > I also think that 'fay'-ness is maybe what Furry > accused her of in that > article where he is annoyed at the song and her > attitude. > > Of course, this is completely invalid if she has a > different meaning to the > word 'fay', but that's how I've always read it. > > Rob > > --------------------------------------- > 'Reno Dakota, I'm reaching my quota > Of tears for the year' > - The Magnetic Fields > --------------------------------------- > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:47:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: more about fay/LJC fay noun (1927) : ofay (C)1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved. ofay \"o-'fa, o-"\ noun [origin unknown] (1925) : a white person ? usu. used disparagingly (C)1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Brenda J. Walker Enviado el: Viernes, 26 de Enero de 2001 02:29 p.m. Para: Mark Tatum CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: meaning of fay/LJC My older southern relatives used fay in short for ofay - a somewhat derogatory term for a white person. I particularly remember it from my great uncle who used to book gospel and blues musicians on the "chitlin' circuit" in the 20's and 30's. Brenda n.p. - the rain and the Pacific Mark Tatum wrote: > Answer: See www.wuxtry.com/wuxtry.html > > Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 04:01:05 +0700 From: "william" Subject: The Jungle Line Jim, the Man o' God's, analysis of The Jungle Line. I copied it and sent it to one of my cerebral / eloquent buddies here. One of? My only one. I just might have converted a Blue-is-the-only-one-I-know pal into a new Joni fan, just because of that post by Lama. Thanks Jim. Willy the Shake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:01:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: meaning of fay? rob's points raise a question that's been on my mind for some time. do you all think that joni was slumming on fstb???? why of all means of transportation would she choose a limo to visit furry?!?!?!?! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Rob Ettridge Enviado el: Viernes, 26 de Enero de 2001 01:18 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: meaning of fay? She's admitting that she's just having a passing interest and she'll move onto something else tomorrow. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:05:13 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC > Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? Well I'll be! For the last 25 years I thought it was "fey", meaning eccentric, crazy or a visionary, and it seems to fit. But it is printed as "fay", do you think it could be a typo? I like the meaning of short for "ofay". Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:11:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: meaning of fay? that's cool, jan!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de jan gyn Enviado el: Viernes, 26 de Enero de 2001 02:09 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: meaning of fay? At 04:18 PM 1/26/01 +0000, Rob Ettridge wrote: >>Question: What does "fay" mean, as in " I'm rich and I'm fay" in FSTB? It means that you got a percentage for starring in that 'King Kong' movie. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:32:17 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: meaning of fay? Fay means a fairy or, if used as a verb, putting together things very tightly, like fitting timbers together in shipbuilding. The word fey, which is the word I think Joni meant or at least the word I always thought she meant, means enchanted or under a spell or tending toward the supernatural. In addition to those, and maybe developing from that original meaning, a fey person is someone who's very whimsical and imaginative, with the further connotation of being flighty, and not very serious or focused on any one thing. I imagine that the very serious Furry would think of Joni as fey and perhaps be a little envious of such flexibility. He does seem to be a very stuck-in-his-ways, grumpy guy. The word is spelled "fay" on the album, so it's not just a typo in the Lyrics book as I had thought. I think, though, that the word that she meant is "fey". Or, then again, maybe Joni was saying she's fairylike.... could be. (I hate arguing too strenuously with Joni when it comes to the way she uses words.) Debra Shea P.S. Lloyd Cole, "Down on Mission Street" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:44:30 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Would someone send me a list of the video trees, please? I want everything. My husband is gonna kill me... Love Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:52:31 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC Patricia O'Connor wrote: > Well I'll be! For the last 25 years I thought it was "fey", meaning > eccentric, crazy or a visionary, and it seems to fit. But it is printed as > "fay", do you think it could be a typo? > I like the meaning of short for "ofay". That's what I always thought she meant, too, and I would like to like the idea of Joni using fay as short for ofay because that would mean seeing something in a new way. To my mind, though, it doesn't fit with Joni's lack of concern about skin color, and why bother describing herself as white? Seems too obvious to me. [a few seconds pass :-)] Now, looking again at the entire line "I'm rich and I'm fay, And I'm not familiar with what you played"... maybe she IS saying she's a rich white woman and she's talking again about the class and racial differences between her and Furry, and because of those differences she's not familiar with Furry's music, no matter how well known and respected he'd been during his hey day. Multiple meanings again! Way to go Joni!! At the very least you continue to cause some interesting confusion here. Debra Shea NP: Carmel, "I'm Not Afraid of You" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:05:17 -0500 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: Re: Jack! What a great dream. Gives me ideas. Wish you could remember the music of the dream album! I dream music sometimes and am always pissed when I can't remember it. I figure it has to be pretty good music coming from dreamland and all. See ya. Peg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:22:13 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC Hey Joni! You've been lurking long enough, your input is required on this very important question. Which is it?: fay or fey And while we're at it, is it: "Your notches liberation doll" or "You're notches liberation doll" And what's the deal with; "Do your smiles covert complicity Debase as it admires"? Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:35:52 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC Patricia O'Connor wrote: > Hey Joni! > You've been lurking long enough, your input is required on this very > important question. > > Which is it?: > fay or fey > > And while we're at it, is it: > "Your notches liberation doll" > or > "You're notches liberation doll" Yeah, Joni, confused minds wanna know!!! ..... or is it "You're not just liberation, doll" ???? Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:42:17 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Wuxtry/3'fer/HappySad Music/joni shopping? SJC Ron wrote: > 1) record biz > 2) hoods in the hood > 3) whiny white kids > > > interesting that she is now a runaway from the record biz, while in the days > of free man in paris, "the work she'd taken on" kept her from running away > to paris - i guess shes tired of it now?? > > are we the whiny white kids? judging from jennymac's experience joni's not > *that* frantic to run away - i get the impression that she was very nice & > accessible. I've always assumed that hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids were part of the record biz, ie. hoods in the hood = rappers, eg. Eminem, etc., and the whiny white kids = the boy/girl bands or solo artists like Backstreet Boys, Five, Britany Spears, etc. I totally agree with Joni on this one, particularly her next line/word in the song which is "Boring!" > funny, i bought TTT straight after i fell in love with TI, as it was touted > here as the perfection/culmination of the sound she started with TI. somehow > i never got into it. after joining the list i bought "hejira" - played it to > death, and somehow its led me back to TTT & i love it now?? doesnt seem like > a logical prgression - but it works for me. I felt the same way about TTT. It took me a long time to get into it. It doesn't quite compare to TI, but after many listens, it's definitely grown on me. I wouldn't say I love it more than TI, but it's definitely up there in the top 10! But I still don't like Man From Mars, and love Lead Balloon! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:47:21 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: "Just Ice" ? Mariana wrote: > Victor, I was not refering to the whole song when I used the word "untrue". > She's saying lots of truthful things in it (but that doesn't necessarily make a > memorable song, does it?) I was only stating that the line "Is justice just > ice?" was poor and that it ruined the whole song for me. I always think she's saying this line with a fair amount of sarcasm, ie. she's seen this bumper sticker that says Just Ice, and is fairly scathing of it. Which, IMO, puts a slightly different slant on the line, than if she'd come up with it herself. Hell P.S. It's very hard to type when you have a cat that is trying to get attention by lying between you and the keyboard! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:50:48 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC Patricia wrote: > Well I'll be! For the last 25 years I thought it was "fey", meaning > eccentric, crazy or a visionary, and it seems to fit. But it is printed as > "fay", do you think it could be a typo? > I like the meaning of short for "ofay". I've always thought it was "I'm rich and I'm fey" as well - meaning I'm rich and somewhat eccentric and/or wild, and pretty much do whatever I want, whenever I want. Actually come to think of it, I wouldn't mind being "rich and fey" myself! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:53:48 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC Debra wrote: > Yeah, Joni, confused minds wanna know!!! > > ..... or is it "You're not just liberation, doll" ???? That's what I've always thought she was singing! I was disappointed when I finally read the lyrics (assuming they're correct, of course)! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:56:10 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC In a message dated 1/26/01 4:29:44 PM, p.a.oconnor@worldnet.att.net writes: << For the last 25 years I thought it was "fey", meaning eccentric, crazy or a visionary, and it seems to fit. But it is printed as "fay", do you think it could be a typo? >> I have to jump in here and say "Me, too." I even checked the lyrics on my Hejira CD, expecting to see that the word was "fey." Wrong. Then I checked the lyrics on the JM.com site. Wrong again. And I was so sure my old vinyl "Hejira" had the word printed as "fey." If someone out there still has an original vinyl copy of "Hejira," could you please check it? If I am wrong, I'll have to get a bottle of those memory pills, whatever they're called. Ginko something . . . I'm also beginning to have the beginnings of some sort of empathy for the "misunderestimated" George W. Bush. --Bob Still reeling from thinking that the Yeats poem was "Slouching Toward Bethlehem," rather than "The Second Coming." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:00:30 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC And while we're at it, my take on: "Your NOTCH is Liberation, Doll" A hostile remark from a black man to a white liberal woman who has been (as he perceives it) gushing to him about her moral support for his struggle toward "liberation." "Notch" is a crude reference to "vagina." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:02:35 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC > If someone out there still has an > original vinyl copy of "Hejira," could you please check it? I have one and I've checked it...it says "fay". Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:04:13 -0600 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: meaning of fay/fey LJC Sorry-- The vinyl Hejira also says 'fay'. :) eric - --- eric wilcox edwilcox@students.wisc.edu "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious." -Oscar Wilde - --- - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:56 PM To: p.a.oconnor@worldnet.att.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC In a message dated 1/26/01 4:29:44 PM, p.a.oconnor@worldnet.att.net writes: << For the last 25 years I thought it was "fey", meaning eccentric, crazy or a visionary, and it seems to fit. But it is printed as "fay", do you think it could be a typo? >> I have to jump in here and say "Me, too." I even checked the lyrics on my Hejira CD, expecting to see that the word was "fey." Wrong. Then I checked the lyrics on the JM.com site. Wrong again. And I was so sure my old vinyl "Hejira" had the word printed as "fey." If someone out there still has an original vinyl copy of "Hejira," could you please check it? If I am wrong, I'll have to get a bottle of those memory pills, whatever they're called. Ginko something . . . I'm also beginning to have the beginnings of some sort of empathy for the "misunderestimated" George W. Bush. --Bob Still reeling from thinking that the Yeats poem was "Slouching Toward Bethlehem," rather than "The Second Coming." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:23:19 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC Eric wrote: > Sorry-- The vinyl Hejira also says 'fay'. :) And so does my crispy clean original Hejira songbook ;-) I also noticed something in the songbook - on the first (title) page there is an asterisk next to "Hejira" and down at the bottom of the page it says: * A journey esp. when undertaken to seek refuge away from a dangerous or undesirable environment Hmmm, in recent years Joni has softened her definition of Hejira as "a leaving with honor." Her original definition sounds more like a "fleeing without even stopping to pack my bags" to me. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:44:17 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: my friends review Some of you may remember that i had taped a few of joni's songs for a freind who was convinced that he hated Joni becase "folk music" is not at all his thing. he was willing to listen to them and consider them because A) my enthusiasm was contagious B) he is a big music fan and many of his favourites have been inspired by joni. he had known many of the covers before he even knew they were JM! such as teh two Travis covers, Maire Brennan,Judy Collins (hello, he'd listenend to Judy but was convinced he didnt like Joni!!), and Annie Lennox. well, i posted the first response of his a while back and i passed along your coments to him. some of which were very flattering to him. well, this is his review of het second disc. this one was more his choice than mine, he was curious about certain eras. most especially BSN. i always stress to him that sometimes teh songs have more impact in teh context of teh original albums, you know, to see if he will actually go and buy some of them! here is what he had to say. i think his comment regarding Sex Kills is interesting considering the line of conversation around here lately: My Secret Place(with Peter Gabriel)- Peter Gabriel, need I say anything else? I think the interplay between them is great. They have really good recording chemistry. A Come in from the Cold- This is really mellow and enjoyable. The guitars and percussion are really nice. Is this in the beginning of the era when her voice changes? A Sunny Sunday-Again mellow. Very nice. A Sex Kills- This is nice but seems (I'm guessing) that it might be from the late 70's early 80's where people were making important music. It has some of those background flourishes of the period. Still, it's pretty good. B- How Do You Stop- How do you stop the ripening corn? Great song, great music. A Help Me- This is what I would call Classic Joni. This is probably the very first song of hers that I was cognizant of. I can remember hearing it on the radio in the seventies during my childhood. I really like this song though it took twenty plus years. It can sound very dated, but that's not always a bad thing. A+ Raised On Robbery- This is a fun song. I would bet she enjoys singing this. B Ladies of the Canyon- I like Annie Lennox's version a lot. That may be why I like this one so much. The one area of Joni's music I don't enjoy is her own background vocals. See Rainy Night House. A Woodstock- Great song. Her voice comes thru very clear against the background which makes the song more stark. It's kind of cool to have a song document the event by someone who was around. But those background vocals again. B+ Rainy Night House- The piano melody is just simply gorgeous. As in instrumental it would be perfect. This song is very intimate to me. It's like getting a glimpse of someone else's life. But those background vocals. I honestly think her own background vocals ruin her own songs. She doesn't seem very judicious with them. They always seem intrusive. Despite that A+ Blue- Really nice. A classic for obvious reasons. A A Case of You- Fantastic song. Lyrics are superb. Back then her voice was so perfect! Full of expression. A A Case of You (BSN)- Since I didn't buy this cd I don't know who did the arranging of her music, but it is brilliant. They have a great ear for sweeping themes. They should record some of her best as instrumental. Having this without the pop trappings and her voice changed lends new meaning to the song. This is supposed to be a jazz themed cd isn't it? Her voice now is so weary and regretful. It is very much suited to this type of material. A Both Sides Now(BSN)- Lovely version. Gives it new meaning as well. Especially after having recorded it so many years before. A++ Stormy Weather- Great song to begin with, great version. A Comes Love- Very nice. B+ Answer Me, My Love- Stately. This is a very respectful version. I also enjoy Nat King Cole's version as well as Bryan Ferry's radical reworking. A I Wish I Were In Love Again- I was thinking after listening to the previous four songs that she needs a touch of swing. Here it is. She's suited for uptempo as well. B+ Well, there they are. Hope you enjoy. I was thinking about Stevie while listening to these. She and Joni had certain parallels in their careers, most notably the change in their voices from young to middle age. Perhaps that's why we like them both. As I told you a while back, I certainly enjoyed this cd much more than the first one you made. I am so glad I coerced you into making another one. As if I had to twist your arm! and thats all he had to say. let me know what ye think. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:28:33 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Meaning of "fay" My good friend Debra wrote: << The word is spelled "fay" on the album, so it's not just a typo in the Lyrics book as I had thought. I think, though, that the word that she meant is "fey". Or, then again, maybe Joni was saying she's fairylike.... could be. (I hate arguing too strenuously with Joni when it comes to the way she uses words.) >> I've always assumed that "fay" was simply an americanised spelling of "fey", analogous to the way we spell the colour (or should that be "color" :-) "grey" and Americans spell it "gray". Is there any mileage in that theory? It's an interesting debate, because it's such a key line in a song laced with unforgettable lines and imagery. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:32:05 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Wuxtry/3'fer/HappySad Music/joni shopping? SJC Hi Ron, Not to be picky, but it was her traveling companion, (rumored to be similar to David Geffen) who was the Free Man in Paris. He was the one who was temporarily free from the star maker machinery behind a popular song. Joni's acting his part, speaking his part. Writing his story. Your take: > interesting that she is now a runaway from the record biz, while in the days of free man in paris, "the work she'd taken on" kept her from running away to paris - i guess shes tired of it now??< Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:07:13 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/LJC Wow! I agree with Patricia! Joni's guessing at what "Furry" thinks of her. It only make sense to use a word that an older black man, a blues man, might use when observing a weak, effeminate, white, chick singer. (Of course WE all know that she's not weak, effeminate, OR a chick singer!) The word is from *his* world, not hers. I like it if only because it's a brilliant choice and I'm willing to give Our Joan all the credit I can. Swooning (again), Lama PS- The "limo" in this song might be poetic license, pointing up the disparity. Patricia said, > ------------------------------ Well I'll be! For the last 25 years I thought it was "fey", meaning eccentric, crazy or a visionary, and it seems to fit. But it is printed as "fay", do you think it could be a typo? I like the meaning of short for "ofay". - ------------------------------< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:00:05 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Rare unreleased Joni Song There has been a rare unreleased Joni song added to Joni Mitchell.com's Unreleased on Record Page, but you have to go there to find out more about it. - -Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:02:14 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: meaning of fay? >why of all means of > transportation would she choose a limo to visit furry?!?!?!?! > wallyK > > I always assumed the limo was because she visited him while on tour with the band. I remember reading that bands like The Rolling Stones and Led Zepplin used to visit Furry when touring in the area. I take the word fay (or fey) to mean a pampered pop star, someone who likes clean white linen and french cologne. Philip np DJ Shadow - Nights In White Satin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:10:27 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: my friends review Hey Garret, I think you should steal those CDs back from him so he has to buy her whole catalog! Congratulations on making a big convert! :) Lama Garret's friend reviewed 17 songs and awarded 13 A's. He said, in part, >As I told you a while back, I certainly enjoyed this cd much more than the first one you made. I am so glad I coerced you into making another one. As if I had to twist your arm!< Then Garret said, >and thats all he had to say. let me know what ye think. GARRET < ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:35:47 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Rare unreleased Joni Song OK, who's going to get off their ass and get these songs TREED!!! I've only heard half of them, and everyone will surely enjoy them. http://www.jonimitchell.com/Unreleased.html At 9:00 PM -0500 1/26/01, RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: >There has been a rare unreleased Joni song added to Joni Mitchell.com's >Unreleased on Record Page, but you have to go there to find out more about >it. > >-Rose in NJ - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape/cd trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:56:30 -0600 From: "Gerald" Subject: Free Man In Paris Re:Wuxtry/3'fer/HappySad Music/joni shopping? Ron Wrote: interesting that she is now a runaway from the record biz, while in the days of free man in paris, "the work she'd taken on" kept her from running away to paris As I recall from an interview, Free Man In Paris was written in third person, and I think the song is about (I could be wrong here) David Geffen(?) saying he'd "go back there tomorrow, but for the work (he'd) taken on, stoking the star maker machinery behind the popular song". Gerald (on digest, need a Tums) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:11:33 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Long Bob Muller said, I now have an opportunity to brag on my record collection. Yes, I *still* have an LP of "Hejira". As a matter of fact, *mine* is a promo copy. Da-na-na-na.... na! :) Anyway, the cover is more than four times the area of a CD cover, glossy, and sports detail not visible in smaller versions. The title and artist's name are embossed. And the LP was pressed from an analog master- it was never digitized in those pre-digital days. < begin sarcasm mode> Too bad I don't have one of those *superior* CD copies! (Have I annoyed everyone yet? Okay! I'll get to the point!) The relevant section begins with "Furry", rumored to be character drawn from a real life blues man (named "Fury", right gang?) Anyway, Joni's imaginary character, "Furry" is about to speak, [[ He points a bony finger at you and says, "I don't like you" Everybody laughs as if it's the old mans standard joke But it's true We're only welcome for our drink and smoke W.C. Handy I'm rich and I'm fay And I'm not familiar with what you played But I get such strong impressions of your hey day Looking up and down old Beale Street ]] That's the way it's typed onto the inner cover of the (obviously superior!) LP version of the album. But I noticed a few things. The punctuation is kinda mangled in places. Now I'm really horrible about punctuation but IMO, there should be a period in "Furry's" quote. In the third line, the word "mans" (sic) is possessive so there should be an apostrophe. When she addresses W.C. Handy's memory maybe there should be a comma after his name. Anyway, I went into all of this detail to prove that the printed lyric for "Furry Sings The Blues" has several little flaws. It would only be a short stretch to guess that someone along the way meant "fey" and typed "fay" on the sleeve, assuming they all knew the difference. (I certainly didn't!) Lama BTW, I was wrong in my previous post where I asserted that Joni's guessing what "Furry" thinks of her. She's guessing what W.C. Handy, (long gone) would think of her. For a picture of William Christopher Handy see http://www.jass.com/Others/wchandy.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:21:11 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Long > W.C. Handy I'm rich and I'm fay > And I'm not familiar with what you played > But I get such strong impressions of your hey day > Looking up and down old Beale Street Jim, I don't think it's a typo. I think it's another Joni play on words - she qualifies as both "fey" and "fay" to W.C. Handy. Thanks to Brenda for telling some of us something new - it enhances the song for me a lot. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:28:25 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Long I always thought it was slang for wc handy i'm rich and I'm faymous but what the hell do i know anyway - -Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:48:00 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: meaning of fay/fey LJC, Short I agree. Double entrende. Joni rules. Again. Ho hum. What did we expect? She used a decades old slang term for a thought from a decades old blues character (Handy). Is this masterful or what? This is a Master writing a lyric! I'm toying with the idea of beginning to compile these as they come up....... Brenda, way to go! Lama PS- Everyone, if I'm posting too much please let me know. I've been having a ball on the List! > -----Original Message----- > From: Kakki [mailto:KakkiB@worldnet.att.net] > I don't think it's a typo. I think it's another Joni play on words - she > qualifies as both "fey" and "fay" to W.C. Handy. Thanks to Brenda for > telling some of us something new - it enhances the song for me a lot. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:53:43 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: This Just IN Whilst in the clutches of my dentist this afternoon I managed to read some of the new Feb. Issue of Jazz Times (picked up free at the NAMM show in Anaheim) and lo and behold, in the Best of 2000 category "Best Rockers Gone Jazz" Joni Mitchell with runner up Andy Summers (go Andy!). The blurb reads, " Its tough to criticize pop starts who stoop to conquer the jazz idiom. Ah, but then again there is such a tradition of bungled efforts (Barry Manilow, Diana Ross) it's hard to resist skepticism. Thankfully, Mitchell's inspired takes on standards as well as a few of her own classic songs bad by a lush orchestra insulted neither her old audience nor the jazz-vocal crowd." Go Joan! Can't wait for her to sweep the grammies. Paz NP-Eric The Bad-Lee Sebel (mp3 tribute to Eric Johnson performed on keyboard) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:05:42 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: New Stuff on www.jonimitchell.com , JC JJ has posted a "find" from one of our own. JMDLer Gary Zack (Protea man) found the lyric to an old Joni song that she has never released. It's called "The Midnight Cowboy Song". Way to go Gary! JJ has posted the lyric on Joni Mitchell's Official Web Site! Naturally, you'll want to check out www.jonimitchell.com . BTW, Bob Muller, the Kovers King, already has it listed on the Covers By Title list. http://www.jmdl.com/covers/bytitle.cfm Lama PS- Hey Bob, Donal Leace's version appears on the "by title" list but it's not on any volumes yet released and it's not on the Wanted list. What does that mean? You have it but it sucks? :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:29:13 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: meaning of fay? Mikey's dictionary defines it as fairy or elf (but no pic of WallyK). I think there was be another slang meaning. Paz NP-Coyote-Joni on MY Sonicnet on 1/26/01 12:15 PM, Catherine McKay at anima_rising@yahoo.ca wrote: > "Fay" relates to "fairy". Someone who is "fay" is > touched by the fairies, may be a fairy, (the little > gossamer-winged type, not like Wally the birthday > fairy!) may be a changeling, which would make them > flighty, ephemeral, not-quite-there and so on, just as > you say. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:34:14 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Shadows And Light" on video: Out Of Print? After Jenny's request, I looked for the video of Joni's amazing video "Shadows and Light" on www.cdnow.com and the www.columbiahouse.com . Neither site has it. Who knows, definitively, how to find out if a video is out of print? This may have implications in the uhhhmmmm ethical availability of the video through (ahem) alternative channels. I am also personally interested in obtaining a VHS copy of "Refuge Of the Roads" as that title *also* appears to be out of print. Could someone "hook a brother up?" "I have always had to depend upon the kindness of strangers". :) Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:36:14 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Hejira vinyl cover lamadoo wrote: >>> Are you implying that vinyl is dead Bob? >>>and sports detail not visible in smaller versions. <<< such as the three persons walking across the ice over the bride's left shoulder on the back! Has anyone noticed any missing detail on other CD reproductions of the original album art? Cassy (another vinyl aficionado) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #30 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?