From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #25 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, January 23 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 025 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- surfacing... ["Kate Bennett" ] Now you can learn Martin Giles' arrangement of For Free! [M.Russell@iaea.] Re: Threefer Madness ["Rob Ettridge" ] Re: Threefer Madness ["Sally Pont" ] Re: Threefer Madness [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Threefer Madness [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Threefer Madness ["Rob Ettridge" ] Re: Threefer Madness [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #36 [Merk54@aol.com] Re: "misses" ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Threefer Madness ["Rob Ettridge" ] Re: "misses" ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Threefer Madness [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: "misses" [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Jungle Line, etc. ["P. Henry" ] Joni's Three-fers [moonlj@san.rr.com (Lindsay,Moon)] Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #36 [catman ] The Stimulant of Innocence [Merk54@aol.com] I'm a new suscriber [Jennymac48@aol.com] Threefer Madness [LeslieMixon@aol.com] Re: I'm a new suscriber [KJHSF@aol.com] more threefer madness [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: more threefer madness [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: I'm a new suscriber [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: more threefer madness [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The Stimulant of Innocence [catman ] RE: Now you can learn Martin Giles' arrangement of For Free! ["Chris Mars] Re: more threefer madness [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: more threefer madness [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: more threefer madness [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Dave Matthews ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: more threefer madness ["Patricia O'Connor" ] (no subject) [Jennymac48@aol.com] RE: "misses" (plus a few of my favorite live joni performances) ["patrick] Re: (no subject) [Jason Maloney ] Re: (no subject) ["Diane Evans" ] Re: (no subject) [Heather ] Re: The Gallery is back.... [Heather ] Re: Another Joni encounter ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: more threefer madness [Scott and Jody ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:50:24 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: surfacing... Wow, jmdlers sure know how to party! and party! and party some more! Perhaps I am one of the first to be home & begin recovering from the weekend, aside from Steve & Kakki... I met Paz & Nikki & Darice for the first time at the NAMM show when I arrived. They all, plus Kakki, were hanging out & keeping poor Steve company, who was waiting 2 hours for us to arrive with a pass so he could get in to see the show. Apparently the new convention center in Anaheim (where the NAMM show recently returned to) forgot about building enough parking spaces for the multitudes that descended on the place.... But inside was very cool. If you have never been to NAMM, it is a freak show! All kinds of characters- hippies, business suits, folk singers, guitar gods, spinal tap wannabes, punkers, metal heads, hair of all lengths & colors & you name the costume, it was there. The musical ranges from classical instruments to african percussion to high tech recording gear to acoustic guitars (my favorite) to dj equipment---every possible piece of gear, attachment, gizmo, whatcamacallit, etc related to any and all kinds of music. Rooms & rooms & isles & isles of cool stuff. I got to about 1/100 of it. Upstairs, in a private room was the wonderful oasis from all the madness & loudness, ahhhhh, the Taylor room. A huge roomful of their beautiful guitars for anyone to pickup, sit down on the comfy couches & play. In the adjoining room was a stage & chairs & continual concerts by their technicians & recording artists. (And on Sunday, they let one of their indie artists, yours truly, pick out any guitar & get up on their stage to do a set in one of their tba spots. Very cool experience with an awesome sound set up. I am forever spoiled... ) After a Saturday afternoon of nammin, we met at the jmdl Conestoga hotel headquarters for some dinner in the bar. (If you want us, we'll be in the bar) Julius & Alison & her friend from SLC joined us after their day at Disneyland to celebrate Alison's birthday. I had 2 friends join us who live in the area (& though they aren't on the jmdl, are Joni fans!). Steve had a concert to produce that night. Then courtesy of Paz & his friend Tina, we all went to the Muriel Anderson All Star Guitar Night back at the convention center's Hilton ballroom. There, we ran into my friend & percussionist John, who was helping with the show that night & he ushered us in to the VIP section so we got front row seats (on the floor). Fingerstyle guitarists from all over the world followed by Larry Coryell & his son Julian (who sang a beautiful Duke Ellington song- the show highlight for me) & friends, including an amazing 13 year old guitarist, followed by Dog Star (Keneau R's band)& then Marco Mendoza trio who Kakki knew. THEN back to the hotel for some music playing & partying. All of this reminds me of how tired I really am & that I should go to bed now. So, to be continued... ******************************************* Kate Bennett sponsored by Polysonics www.polysonics.com hear the music at: www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:04:00 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Now you can learn Martin Giles' arrangement of For Free! I just added Martin's gorgeous guitar arrangement of For Free to the JMDL guitar files. Some of you may have heard his lovely recording on the Troubadour CD which came out of Jamie Zubairi's London Jonifest 2000. If you haven't heard this song, you would be doing yourself a big favor to try and find a copy. The guitar work is faultless and Martin's voice is rich and beautiful. I hope other guitarists out there will enjoy learning his arrangement as much as I have. I just wish I could sing like him!!! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:31:53 -0000 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Re: Threefer Madness OK, slighty off the Threefer Madness theme but in the same ball park. I've often thought of Joni's albums as being trilogys (with a bit of manipulation): STAS Clouds LOTC - - acoustic, simple (in the nicest possible way) Blue FTR C&S - - more commercial, multi-instrumental HOSL Hejira DJRD - - experimental, jazz-influenced WTRF DED CMIARS - - the '80's albums NRH TI TTT - - the '90's albums I admit I'm chickening out a bit with the last two. Perhaps the division between CMIARS and NRH isn't too clear, but to me the eighties albums are a little awkward (?) whereas NRH is a return to form. It's tempting to label the nineties albums as the 'confident' albums, as I tend to see Joni as a Master of her trade completely in control of what she does with these albums. Although, does that imply that she wasn't before? I shan't dig around too much for what distinguishes these two trilogies from each other, or how to best describe them, as I'm being mindful of Joni's wise words on 'Borderline' regarding labelling things. And of course, this is ignoring Mingus, MOA, S&L, Hits & Misses. And as for BSN: didn't she orignally say that she'd make three such albums, and that this is the first in a trilogy? Rob - --------------------------------------- 'Astrology will have to be revised' - - The Magnetic Fields - --------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:06:21 -0500 From: "Sally Pont" Subject: Re: Threefer Madness Here is a more personal "threefer" from "Just Like This Train": I was looking for a cause or a strong cat without claws or any reason to resume . . . That's the joni trio-ization that she first sets up in "Both Sides, Now" . . . a move from idealization to realization to disillusionment. Sally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:27:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Threefer Madness <> Nice configurations, Rob... <> Yes, that *is* a bit chicken-like. ;~) How about the "OMIGOD I'd better try and move some units so I don't get totally forgotten even if that means compromising my artistic credibility by doing some banal duets so I can keep painting for a HOBBY" period? ;~) <> The "OK, we survived MTV & Geffen, let's make some REAL music again" period... Bob NP: Ben Folds Five, "Steven's Last Night In Town" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:42:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Threefer Madness <> Great one, Sally! And if you look at the whole song, it abounds with "Threefers"! <> Even though she adds the thin man smoking a fat cigar later, she separates these 3. Others in Just Like This Train: <> <> <> Lots of Threefers in this one! Don't know if it's coincidence or significant...given that it's Joni, I'd say the latter. Bob NP: Ben Folds Five, "Evaporated" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:37:28 -0000 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Re: Threefer Madness >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com ><DED >CMIARS >- the '80's albums>> > >Yes, that *is* a bit chicken-like. ;~) How about the "OMIGOD I'd better try >and move some units so I don't get totally forgotten even if that means >compromising my artistic credibility by doing some banal duets so I can >keep painting for a HOBBY" period? ;~) > ><TI >TTT >- the '90's albums>> > >The "OK, we survived MTV & Geffen, let's make some REAL music again" >period... > >Bob Bob I didn't like to be too abusive of the 80's albums, especially on my first real post, so thanks for doing it for me! I almost labeled them the 'I Love Larry' trilogy, but perhaps that's a little harsh. Imagine if she hadn't released them and gone from S&L to NRH after a 12 year silence. Surely they would have become the 'great lost albums', only available on bootleg in demo form. Maybe we'd all herald 'Underneath the Streetlight' and 'Dancing Clown' as masterpieces. (OK, maybe not the last bit.) Rob - --------------------------------------- 'Astronomy will have to be revised' - - The Magnetic Fields - --------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:58:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Threefer Madness <> LOL! Sounds like a sitcom! :~) Can't you just see Joni coming home from "being up all night in the studio", hanging her beret on the coatrack, and shouting "Larry, I'm home!" :~D And put in perspective of Sally's "excitement/realization/disillusionment" trio, the "Larry" trilogy might actually (Sorry, Lori) be WTRF, NRH, TI... Bob NP: Ben Folds Five, "Jackson's Cannery" live in Germany 11/13/96 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:17:29 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #36 In a message dated 1/23/01 2:25:22 AM Central Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Patricia wrote: I have trouble understanding I had trouble with this one a little my self, then one day was watching TV, and a commercial came on with the cutest little baby. It then dawned on me that any time we see a commercial with a cute baby, or a tiny puppy, or a bunch of kittens we are being 'stimulated' by innocence -- or at least that's what the advertisers are hoping. I think this could be even expanded to include highly sentimental material -- the phone companies are classic examples of this, as is Hallmark. For example, a commercial that shows a tender moment when someone is talking to someone else on the phone, or giving someone a card "just for being you", etc. Anything designed to tug at your heart strings in order to sell a product, in my opinion, is nothing more than innocence used as a stimulant. Of course it doesn't just apply to advertising, but it's just more obvious there. I think there is even a slight hint of it in Song for Sharon - And when I went skating after Golden Reggie, you know it was white lace I was chasing, chasing dreams.... Certainly there is more than just a hint of innocence woven into that long white dress of love. Anyway, that would be my take on the subject. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:20:00 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: "misses" Willy, You're baiting us, right? Anyway, I agree, sort of. While I love all of Joni's albums, I think the songs lose a whole lot when lifted out of context. They lose a ton. "misses" is like a meal of different courses chosen by committee. I'm thinking of Garlic Chicken followed by a Hot Fudge Sundae. I'm mean, I love 'em both, but one should certainly not follow the other. On the Cowboy Junkies' list I recommended that people start with C&S, Blue, FTR, Hejira, DJRD, or HOSL. Not "hits". Not "misses". Two cents, Lama - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:44:51 +0700 From: "william" Subject: Misses Misses is well titled. - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:35:22 -0000 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Re: Threefer Madness >Can't you just see Joni coming home from "being up all night in the > >studio", hanging her beret on the coatrack, and shouting "Larry, I'm > >home!" :~D That's kind of my point. Was she up all night in the studio? Doesn't sound much like it! Her life was going well, her relationships were going well, not the turmoil that inspired Blue or Hejira, and later, in part, NRH, TI, TTT. Tori Amos poured her heart out on 'Little Earthquakes' and then had nothing much to say on 'Under the Pink'. It took the end of her long relationships with Eric ending to create the wonderful 'Boys for Pele' and her miscarriage to bring about the very dark 'From the Choirgirl Hotel'. It seems that for an artist to please their fans (and critics) they have to go through a personal hell. Other examples in music are Dylan's 'Blood on the Tracks' just after his divorce and Shawn Colvin's 'Few Small Repairs' after hers (and the end of her alcoholism, I think?). Probably their best works. I love the image of the beret on the coatrack. If Joni hasn't painted that yet, I'm sure it's only a matter of time. Rob _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:44:51 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: "misses" Can't agree more w/you Jim!! I never purchased either Hits or Misses for exactly that reason- the songs being out of context to the central theme. I have often wondered why these were released- was it a JM decision, or the record company's? It never really has made sense to me. Regards, Stephen in Vancouver "Jim L'Hommedieu" on 01/23/2001 07:20:00 AM Please respond to "Jim L'Hommedieu" To: "_JMDL - June 98" cc: (bcc: Stephen Epstein/Agmont) Subject: Re: "misses" Willy, You're baiting us, right? Anyway, I agree, sort of. While I love all of Joni's albums, I think the songs lose a whole lot when lifted out of context. They lose a ton. "misses" is like a meal of different courses chosen by committee. I'm thinking of Garlic Chicken followed by a Hot Fudge Sundae. I'm mean, I love 'em both, but one should certainly not follow the other. On the Cowboy Junkies' list I recommended that people start with C&S, Blue, FTR, Hejira, DJRD, or HOSL. Not "hits". Not "misses". Two cents, Lama - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:44:51 +0700 From: "william" Subject: Misses Misses is well titled. - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:54:54 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Threefer Madness In a message dated Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:43:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Rob Ettridge" writes: <> I think another excellent example of this "tortured artist syndrome" is Billy Joel, who wrote some fine songs before he met and married Christie Brinkley, then turned into one of those happy pop singers for a while. I haven't heard any new songs from him lately, but I expect that after she divorced him and his agent stole much of his money he should be back in that New York State of Mind. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:12:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: "misses" Stephen Epstein wrote: > Can't agree more w/you Jim!! I never purchased either Hits or Misses for > exactly that reason- the songs being out of context to the central theme. > I have often wondered why these were released- was it a JM decision, or the > record company's? It never really has made sense to me. And what is worse, Joni considered them her "box set" release. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:12:09 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Jungle Line, etc. jim provided: >Okay, again, I'm very glad to have this new information, that Rousseau painted jungle scenes. I don't know paintings- I'm a photographer. :) That's very interesting but in Joni's song, Joni's fantasy of Rousseau, he *is* painting the bar scene. Check this: "In a low-cut blouse she brings the beer. *Rousseau* paints a jungle flower behind her ear. With his hard-edged eyes and steady hand *he paints the cellar* full of ferns and orchid vines and he 'hangs' a moon above a five-pieced band." In Joni's fantasy of Rousseau, the jungle painter is in a cellar nightclub, rendering the primitive that he perceives within the urban scene. As if Joni's saying, "If Rousseau was here, here's what *he'd* see. This is what he would notice and capture." Just my two cents.> I don't mean to be intrusive, really... and of course I must always apologize for being behind as I always am... (hell, I heard I got flamed and I haven't even gotten there yet! LoL!) I do realize this discussion has long since passed on, but I just couldn't refrain from comment on 'painting in the cellar nightclub', though not necessarily as regards Mr. Rousseau... this has been previously documented onlist by cul heath and brian moss. (around feb-mar '99 for you archive diggers) picture a coffeehouse (called 'The Cellar' btw) in a not-so-big lakeport city which had been opened and closed twice before... closed once for drugs I heard rumors... 1966, a VERY creative HS art teacher (bill mandt, an important name in Joni history) undertakes a massive class project of forming a NonProfOrg, reopening this cellar nightclub for the third time, primarily for two reasons... one, to *paint* it... (no, I don't mean hauling out the rollers and painting the walls, (which ended up all black, btw) by that I mean sending forth the best of his art students, cul heath among them, to do a white-on-black motif mural of the entire coffeehouse! see pics here and take note of the walls: (and read captions) http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/cellar4.JPG and: http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/cellar2.JPG and it is also discussed in the article, here: http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/cellar1.JPG and here we have a quote from cul, one of the artists himself: "Bill Mandt was the art teacher at Port Huron High School who with the help of a couple of other teachers, took a bunch of us students who were into art and music and... had us take over this basement of a downtown building and after cleaning and painting the place black with white murals. I got the chore of painting the entrance stairway walls with abstract stuff. We called it the Cellar. It became the site for an amazing array of performers including Chuck and Joni Mitchell." ...which leads into Mr. Mandt's second reason, to bring back, at all costs, Chuck and (mostly) Joni who had played there in it's previous incarnations. I just thought I'd throw another $.02 into the ring... interesting, I think, in regards to where Joni may have picked up her 'painting in the cellar nightclub' imagery... of course there were probably other clubs, especially in NYC and I believe either the Riverboat or the Pennyfarthing in Toronto was a cellar club, but here we have at least one link between the cellar club and painting... and it was even *called* The Cellar! :o) cheers, pat NP: Jericho http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:19:30 -0800 From: moonlj@san.rr.com (Lindsay,Moon) Subject: Joni's Three-fers That ever-inquisitive Bob Muller wrote: What about "Cherokee Louise": "Ever since we turned 13/it' like a minefield walkin' to the door/comin' in you get the third degree/goin' out you get the Third World War..." I've always been impressed by that genius type of writing on her part. Or "Barangrill": "Three waitresses all wearing black diamond earrings ..." (and the musings she had on one of the tape trees that the three characters represent the trinity (I'm probably not remembering that right ... ) Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:25:10 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2001 #36 Merk54@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/23/01 2:25:22 AM Central Standard Time, les@jmdl.com > writes: > > > Patricia wrote: I have trouble understanding > > I had trouble with this one a little my self, then one day was watching TV, > and a commercial came on with the cutest little baby. It then dawned on me > that any time we see a commercial with a cute baby, or a tiny puppy, or a > bunch of kittens we are being 'stimulated' by innocence -- or at least that's > what the advertisers are hoping. I agree with you that they are trying to appeal to us but I don't think innocence is the right word. I mrean i don't think it is innocence that is being appealed to. To me inncocence would be a condition of not being subject to cynicism, avarice, giving to get, etc Adults have lost this a long time ago. I think they are using their guile to appeal to our sentimental, wistful parts, or even our compassion but not innocence. Innocence is to be guilt free(not in feeling!), without guile and other stuff of the matured human ego. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:32:02 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: The Stimulant of Innocence Colin wrote: I don't think it is innocence that is being appealed to. Colin, I agree, they are not trying to appeal to our innocence, they are trying to sell us innocence. What could be more innocent than a cute little baby, or a new born puppy. They are stimulating us with innocence. Why are we stimulated by innocence? Most likely a longing for our own lost innocence. It's no different than selling us something using sexy models. Buy this product and "your lovers will look like movie stars" - buy this product and you'll regain a bit of your innocence. I'm not sure if I am explaining this well, but it makes sense to me. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:36:38 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: I'm a new suscriber Is this where I would write to you about my encounter with JM at the Virgin Mega Store on Sunset Blvd. last year? Does anyone want to read about it? Let me know... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:37:47 EST From: LeslieMixon@aol.com Subject: Threefer Madness And then there's "God Must Be A Boogie Man" "We are three, one's in the middle unmoved..." Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:49:39 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm a new suscriber In a message dated 1/23/2001 12:45:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jennymac48@aol.com writes: << s this where I would write to you about my encounter with JM at the Virgin Mega Store on Sunset Blvd. last year? Does anyone want to read about it? Let me know... >> I'm sure we're all anxious to hear about your brush with greatness. Please continue... ken from sf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:55:12 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: more threefer madness Yankee yachts and lobster pots and sunshine... Dogs and tugs and summertime... Aaaahhh, summertime!!!!! ken from sf, now in ohio, and it's cold! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:08:46 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: more threefer madness Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels. This is too easy. In a message dated Tue, 23 Jan 2001 1:05:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, KJHSF@aol.com writes: << Yankee yachts and lobster pots and sunshine... Dogs and tugs and summertime... Aaaahhh, summertime!!!!! ken from sf, now in ohio, and it's cold! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:20:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm a new suscriber <> Welcome to the list, Jennymac... Enough with the pleasantries, let's hear that story!! :~D Bob NP: Kate Bennett, "Wolfsong" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:27:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: more threefer madness <> It is when you take the first 3 of a 5-timer...the complete list of the example you mention would be: 1.Moons 2.Junes 3.Ferris Wheels 4.The dizzy dancing way you feel 5.Every fairy tale comes real Empty, try another...;~) Bob NP: Kate Bennett, "The Harvest" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:35:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: The Stimulant of Innocence Sorry Jack-i misunderstood you. Selling us innocence-that way around I see your point. As for the innocent loom of a puppy-I have to agree with you there! I have 12 of them at the moment. Even after 30 years, the treat and awe haven't worn off. Merk54@aol.com wrote: > Colin wrote: I don't think it is innocence that is being appealed to. > > Colin, I agree, they are not trying to appeal to our innocence, they are trying to sell us innocence. What could be more innocent than a cute little baby, or a new born puppy. They are stimulating us with innocence. Why are we stimulated by innocence? Most likely a longing for our own lost innocence. It's no different than selling us something using sexy models. Buy this product and "your lovers will look like movie stars" - buy this product and you'll regain a bit of your innocence. I'm not sure if I am explaining this well, but it makes sense to me. > > Jack - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:52:16 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Now you can learn Martin Giles' arrangement of For Free! Marian said:- > If > you haven't heard this song, you would be doing yourself a big favor to try > and find a copy. The guitar work is faultless and Martin's voice is rich > and beautiful. I hope other guitarists out there will enjoy learning his > arrangement as much as I have. I just wish I could sing like him!!! Marian, I think your singing with a deep manly voice would probably be really odd. Don't change a thing, huh? :-D - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:14:33 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: more threefer madness In a message dated Tue, 23 Jan 2001 1:27:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: << <> It is when you take the first 3 of a 5-timer...the complete list of the example you mention would be: 1.Moons 2.Junes 3.Ferris Wheels 4.The dizzy dancing way you feel 5.Every fairy tale comes real I heartily disagree with you lumping those 5 together. It may be 5 items, but they are not 5 "things." Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels are nouns. She moves on into another distinct group of three with "dizzy dancing way you feel," "fairy tales" becoming real and love, which are ethereal feelings than rather than things. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:14:39 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: more threefer madness In a message dated Tue, 23 Jan 2001 1:27:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: << <> It is when you take the first 3 of a 5-timer...the complete list of the example you mention would be: 1.Moons 2.Junes 3.Ferris Wheels 4.The dizzy dancing way you feel 5.Every fairy tale comes real I heartily disagree with you lumping those 5 together. It may be 5 items, but they are not 5 "things." Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels are nouns. She moves on into another distinct group of three with "dizzy dancing way you feel," "fairy tales" becoming real and love, which are ethereal feelings than rather than things. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:19:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: more threefer madness <> Well, it's all a matter of prespective, I guess. Looking at the complete song, she starts with metaphors for Clouds: (A Threefer) 1.Rows and flows of angel hair (Clearly 1 thought) 2.ice cream castles in the air (the same) 3.And feather canyons everywhere (the same) To describe love: 1.Moons 2.Junes 3.Ferris wheels 4.The dizzy dancing way you feel 5.As ev'ry fairy tale comes real The aforementiond five-ster to describe love, EXCEPT that you could (and you are) argue that the first three nouns actually represent one bigger concept, that being one of those magical summer nights when you're in love and all is right with the world. Maybe. <> And what to make of this one? I would argue that she's got a couple of seperate threefers tucked inside a group of seven! 1.Tears 2.fears 3.feeling proud 4.To say "I love you" right out loud 5.Dreams 6.schemes 7.circus crowds So, the way *I* see it, and I ain't necessarily right, is that the progression is 3-5-7, each an odd prime number (for you numeroligists and math teachers), but just as the numbers increase, so does the importance of the topic. LIFE is more important than LOVE which is more important than CLOUDS. Again, is this something that I'm rationalizing, or has Joni in her brilliance constructed something that works on multi-levels? One thing's for sure; I'll bet Claudine Longet wasn't thinking about ANY of this when she recorded the song! :~D Bob NP: Elvin Bishop, "Another Mule Kickin' In Your Stall" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:25:23 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Dave Matthews Just saw that 60 Minutes 2 has a segment on Dave Matthews tonight. I know there are some fans on the list! Regards, Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:04:53 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: more threefer madness Bob wrote: > Empty, try another...;~) Which leads into another threefer: Try another Try another Try another :>) Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:24:00 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: more threefer madness SCJoniGuy wrote: One thing's for sure; I'll bet Claudine Longet wasn't thinking about ANY of this when she recorded the song! :~D Bob Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if she WAS thinking about it when she shot Spider Sabich! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:50:49 -0000 From: "Stevie Mitchell" Subject: Re: I'm a new suscriber Splutter! Cough! Wheeze! - You *can't* make an announcement like that and then not dish!! Welcome to the family Jenny :-)) - -- Stevie - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 23 January 2001 17:36 Subject: I'm a new suscriber > Is this where I would write to you about my encounter with JM at the Virgin > Mega Store on Sunset Blvd. last year? Does anyone want to read about it? Let > me know... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:47:48 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: (no subject) OK, so I never watch tv in the daytime but for some reason I turned on Rosie just as she's announcing that Joni will be her sole guest. Now my best friend Debbie and I have loved Joni in High School but the affair wasn't active, what with marriage and kids etc. But I was excited so I called her and left a message on her machine. I watch the show and decide right then and there I need to rush out and buy the BSN CD. I go to one record store, sold out. Fight traffic to another, same deal. Now I'm real cranky and don't want to have to fight what is now rush hour traffic in Hollywood but I have to get this CD. And one for Debbie too. I go to Virgin, walk in, purchase 2 CD's and turn to walk out the door and Joni Mitchell is standing right in front of me. I say "joni mitchell, Joni Mitchell, JONI MITCHELL" . She's wearing a straw hat, looks down, and realizes that even under the brim we're gonna spot her. She looks up and smiled brightly and says "Hi". I begin; "I just saw you on Rosie and you are so fabulous and I had to go to 3 record stores to find this CD and look in my bag I have 2 CD's of BSN and that's all and you have been so important to me and always in my heart and I grew up and survived because of you..." Joni is saying "Oh thank you. Oh, that's so nice." Then she goes "Do you want me to autograph them for you?" And I sputter "Great, but my pen won't stick to the plastic on the CD (jerk!) so would you sign the receipt? Twice? Once to Jenny and one to Debbie, it's her birthday soon?" She says sure and while she's signing 'hello Jenny' and 'Hello Debbie, Joni Mitchell', a crowd of 20-somethings is gathering far away by the door, staring. I keep blathering, "This is such a thrill, YOU'RE my thrill." She giggles and says "Oh, you've heard the CD then?" But I say, "No, just what you sang on Rosie and I don't care what they say, you just keep smoking those cigaretts because you never sounded better..." Joni says "Well, they haven't seemed to hurt me." Then I say thank you and I'm sorry and back away. She says "No, thank you" and is so sweet and watches me back out the door. The kids at the door say "You talked to her" I say "I've loved her for 30 years and you can talk to her too." I float outside and phone Debbie. She is home. "GUESS WHAT!!" I tell her the whole thing and then I say "I'm going back in." I keep Debbie on the line to hunt for the goddess once again. It takes a while as she is now surrounded by about 5 people in various stages of bowing, we're-not-worthy, gushing and polite adoration, Joni is laughing and indulging each one. I walk up to her again and say "I'm so sorry. It's me again. Would you just say Happy Birthday to Debbie on the phone?" (I'm SUCH a jerk now) Joni takes my cell phone and says it and hands it back to me. I thank her again and get out of there before I invite her to dinner. She was just there, at the record store, shopping. She was with some young guy who looked real annoyed the whole time... Cool, huh? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:58:57 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: "misses" (plus a few of my favorite live joni performances) hi folks, stephen in vancouver wrote: >I have often wondered why these were released- was it a JM decision, or the >record company's? It never really has made sense to me. i'll take a stab. i'm going write about this from memory, but it should be fairly accurate. this might give some context for willy, as well. btw, i really like 'misses', though i never ever listen to hits. i bought them both cheap through bmg, my cd club. here goes. joni had been pressured by her label(s) from at least the late '80s to do a greatest hits/and or a boxed set. reasons she resisted, that i've read in interviews, (paraphrased) include: - - 'well, i really haven't had many hits' (which is true; i think only help me went #1 in her recording, if that) - - 'the songs are important parts of the albums they're on; they're meant to be heard in context' - - 'a boxed set would kill my back catalog's sales' so there was some artistic and some financial thinking on her part. she's not stupid, our joni. she held out on the boxed set but finally reprise wouldn't take no on the greatest hits. so she negotiated what i think is a brilliant compromise. 'fine, we can release a greatest hits, but you are going to pay for me to put out a companion album, of my favorite unloved children. no hits at all, we'll even call it misses.' but this is the best part. joni chose every track on each album, and sequenced them both. went back and listened to all of the albums (which she doesn't do much) i'm sure she had lots of suggestions and pressure from outside, but the final results were hers. and i think they work very well on 'misses'. i just love that 'passion play' and 'nothing can be done' lead off the album, and i think the final five songs: the reoccurring dream harry's house/centerpiece the arrangement for the roses hejira make an amazing suite. i don't love every song or choice on misses, and it might have been very different if she'd done it five years earlier or later. but i love the album, and i think of it as joni's product, and i judge it on the same standards as any other of her projects. and she must have been so happy to put 'wolf that lives in lindsey' out there again. what an amazing soundscape... so there's my 2 cents on that. as i said, i listen to misses, not hits, but she pulled some great fast ones for hits, too. she got chinese cafi on it. how cool is that? there's a long interview with joni, somewhere on jmdl. or jm.com, where she talks about a possible boxed set. for one thing, she knows there's a lot of interest in the mingus outtakes, and i'll bet she has the tapes. my votes for inclusion in a REAL joni boxed set: the mingus outtakes. of course the hissing demos (especially 'dreamland', with kazoo) the joni/james bbc thing. so worthy of commercial release the alt songs from the alt blue, of course (good samaritan) the shiny toys remix that bob found whatever else is weird and wonderful in unreleased joniland, but nothing, absolutely that has ever been commercially released. and the best of the live performances, as assembled by the jonilist. including - -three great stimulants (live on english radio with larry on piano) - -for free (directly from 'refuge of the roads', the best of the '83 versions) - -summertime - from day at the garden and, unless she does an album, the last five songs from the bsn orchestra tour, especially in wallingford connecticut. i will never forget the way she sang 'glitter for them so' that night. patrick np - misses ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:10:47 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: (no subject) I love stories like these! We all do :-) Welcome to the JMDL.... Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:19:40 -0500 From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: (no subject) Jenny, Would that I were in your shoes! I have often imagined what I would say to Joni if I had the opportunity...how to sum up in a moment's time what she has meant to my life, how her music has echoed my experiences? No doubt, I would have been as tongue-tied as you, and still loved every moment of being close. How do you express to someone like her what a splash of warmth she is in the every day? How she can infuse our lives with the spark of joy or dark humor and the comfort of not being alone in our travels? Whew! You are one lucky girl! Lovin' your shoes, Diane >From: Jennymac48@aol.com >Reply-To: Jennymac48@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: (no subject) >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:47:48 EST > >OK, so I never watch tv in the daytime but for some reason I turned on >Rosie >just as she's announcing that Joni will be her sole guest. Now my best >friend Debbie and I have loved Joni in High School but the affair wasn't >active, what with marriage and kids etc. But I was excited so I called her >and left a message on her machine. I watch the show and decide right then >and there I need to rush out and buy the BSN CD. I go to one record store, >sold out. Fight traffic to another, same deal. Now I'm real cranky and >don't want to have to fight what is now rush hour traffic in Hollywood but >I >have to get this CD. And one for Debbie too. I go to Virgin, walk in, >purchase 2 CD's and turn to walk out the door and Joni Mitchell is standing >right in front of me. I say "joni mitchell, Joni Mitchell, JONI MITCHELL" >. >She's wearing a straw hat, looks down, and realizes that even under the >brim >we're gonna spot her. She looks up and smiled brightly and says "Hi". I >begin; "I just saw you on Rosie and you are so fabulous and I had to go to >3 >record stores to find this CD and look in my bag I have 2 CD's of BSN and >that's all and you have been so important to me and always in my heart and >I >grew up and survived because of you..." Joni is saying "Oh thank you. Oh, >that's so nice." Then she goes "Do you want me to autograph them for you?" >And I sputter "Great, but my pen won't stick to the plastic on the CD >(jerk!) >so would you sign the receipt? Twice? Once to Jenny and one to Debbie, it's >her birthday soon?" She says sure and while she's signing 'hello Jenny' >and >'Hello Debbie, Joni Mitchell', a crowd of 20-somethings is gathering far >away >by the door, staring. I keep blathering, "This is such a thrill, YOU'RE my >thrill." She giggles and says "Oh, you've heard the CD then?" But I say, >"No, just what you sang on Rosie and I don't care what they say, you just >keep smoking those cigaretts because you never sounded better..." Joni says >"Well, they haven't seemed to hurt me." Then I say thank you and I'm sorry >and back away. She says "No, thank you" and is so sweet and watches me >back >out the door. The kids at the door say "You talked to her" I say "I've >loved her for 30 years and you can talk to her too." >I float outside and phone Debbie. She is home. "GUESS WHAT!!" I tell her >the >whole thing and then I say "I'm going back in." I keep Debbie on the line >to >hunt for the goddess once again. It takes a while as she is now surrounded >by >about 5 people in various stages of bowing, we're-not-worthy, gushing and >polite adoration, Joni is laughing and indulging each one. I walk up to >her >again and say "I'm so sorry. It's me again. Would you just say Happy >Birthday >to Debbie on the phone?" (I'm SUCH a jerk now) Joni takes my cell phone and >says it and hands it back to me. I thank her again and get out of there >before I invite her to dinner. >She was just there, at the record store, shopping. She was with some young >guy who looked real annoyed the whole time... >Cool, huh? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:23:06 -0500 From: Heather Subject: Re: (no subject) You lucky girl, Jenny!! Anybody's guess as to who the young guy' might be? Heather At 07:47 PM 1/23/01 -0500, Jennymac48@aol.com wrote: >OK, so I never watch tv in the daytime but for some reason I turned on Rosie >just as she's announcing that Joni will be her sole guest. Now my best >friend Debbie and I have loved Joni in High School but the affair wasn't >active, what with marriage and kids etc. But I was excited so I called her >and left a message on her machine. I watch the show and decide right then >and there I need to rush out and buy the BSN CD. I go to one record store, >sold out. Fight traffic to another, same deal. Now I'm real cranky and >don't want to have to fight what is now rush hour traffic in Hollywood but I >have to get this CD. And one for Debbie too. I go to Virgin, walk in, >purchase 2 CD's and turn to walk out the door and Joni Mitchell is standing >right in front of me. I say "joni mitchell, Joni Mitchell, JONI MITCHELL" . >She's wearing a straw hat, looks down, and realizes that even under the brim >we're gonna spot her. She looks up and smiled brightly and says "Hi". I >begin; "I just saw you on Rosie and you are so fabulous and I had to go to 3 >record stores to find this CD and look in my bag I have 2 CD's of BSN and >that's all and you have been so important to me and always in my heart and I >grew up and survived because of you..." Joni is saying "Oh thank you. Oh, >that's so nice." Then she goes "Do you want me to autograph them for you?" >And I sputter "Great, but my pen won't stick to the plastic on the CD (jerk!) >so would you sign the receipt? Twice? Once to Jenny and one to Debbie, it's >her birthday soon?" She says sure and while she's signing 'hello Jenny' and >'Hello Debbie, Joni Mitchell', a crowd of 20-somethings is gathering far away >by the door, staring. I keep blathering, "This is such a thrill, YOU'RE my >thrill." She giggles and says "Oh, you've heard the CD then?" But I say, >"No, just what you sang on Rosie and I don't care what they say, you just >keep smoking those cigaretts because you never sounded better..." Joni says >"Well, they haven't seemed to hurt me." Then I say thank you and I'm sorry >and back away. She says "No, thank you" and is so sweet and watches me back >out the door. The kids at the door say "You talked to her" I say "I've >loved her for 30 years and you can talk to her too." >I float outside and phone Debbie. She is home. "GUESS WHAT!!" I tell her the >whole thing and then I say "I'm going back in." I keep Debbie on the line to >hunt for the goddess once again. It takes a while as she is now surrounded by >about 5 people in various stages of bowing, we're-not-worthy, gushing and >polite adoration, Joni is laughing and indulging each one. I walk up to her >again and say "I'm so sorry. It's me again. Would you just say Happy Birthday >to Debbie on the phone?" (I'm SUCH a jerk now) Joni takes my cell phone and >says it and hands it back to me. I thank her again and get out of there >before I invite her to dinner. >She was just there, at the record store, shopping. She was with some young >guy who looked real annoyed the whole time... >Cool, huh? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:25:03 -0500 From: Heather Subject: Re: The Gallery is back.... THANK YOU LES !!!!! I guess I should sign in to the Gallery after all this time :-) Heather At 07:55 PM 1/21/01 -0700, Les Irvin wrote: >Joniphiles - >Some of you more geriatric members may remember the 'Gallery' at the JMDL >website, the place where your picture was on display along with other >member's? It was always THE most popular portion of the site. Because it >was so labor intensive for me, I had to take it down. > >Well, it's finally back and I no longer have to hold its hand - it's now >fully automated. Your profile appears immediately after you type it in >and - if you are somewhat of a graphics guru - so does your photo! > >Also back are the song and album voting booths. Old-timers will chuckle >as this is about the 5th attempt at placing the voting booths >on-line. All previous attempts have been plagued by programming >problems. This time, though, I think I've gotten it right. > >So... take a few moments, sign up for the Gallery, and vote! >http://www.jmdl.com/gallery > >Les > >NP - Mike Marshall "Paz E Alegria No Lar" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:45:01 -0500 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: Another Joni encounter Jenny, What a wonderful story and can we all relate! Thanks for sharing and welcome to our community. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:15:13 -0600 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: more threefer madness > Bob wrote: > > > Empty, try another...;~) > > Which leads into another threefer: > > Try another > Try another > Try another :>) > > Patricia O'Connor > How about: "But the day she hits, That's the day she'll leave That one little victory, that's all she needs! Ok, Maybe I misinterpreted the original post. jody ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2001 #25 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?