From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #433 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, November 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 433 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Joni and politics [CarltonCT@aol.com] Joni music [Steve Anderson ] Re: Joni and politics [catman ] re left leaning Joni-fans ["Steve" ] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) ["Kakki" ] ISO: Joni, 4/15/73 [Mark Domyancich ] All Things Joni? ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] a non joni fans reactions to joni tunes ["Garret" ] RE: a non joni fans reactions to joni tunes ["Deb Messling" ] Look out the left the captain said. [Richard Rice ] Re: Ages/Joni CD to purchase next? [Nancy ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:30:32 -0600 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) Kakki wrote, in response to a series of posts on Joni's own political leanings, leftward or rightward: "A few months back on the list someone posted a link to a recent interview with Joni where she came out against Bill Clinton with a few remarks that some people here would not find complimentary. Not one person commented on this here." Kakki, I don't want to read into your comment a suggestion that Joni's comments against Clinton, whatever they may have been, implied that she did not sympathize with the goals of the political left, because I'm not at all sure that's what you meant. However, if it is, I can only say that I certainly don't think that remarks against *Bill Clinton,* of all people, mean that the speaker in question disagrees with the left. Many of us who would firmly place ourselves left of center on the political map have criticized Clinton as well, either because 1) we find the rightward drift of the Democratic party under Clinton and other self-styled "New Democrats" to be ideologically objectionable (see also Ralph Nader), 2) we find his personal lapses repugnant, and some of his political practices (e.g., campaign fund-raising) questionable. So it could be that no one on the list, including those who identify as left-leaning, commented on Joni's remarks because many agreed with them! And that's regardless political affiliation, which could well be in keeping with what you wrote in the next comment in your post. And Mark in Seattle wrote: "I doubt that Joni subscribes to any particular political party or group either here or in Canada. Joni strikes me as much too independent in her thinking to go along completely with any one philosophy or religion or train of political thought. She takes whatever truth she discerns in everything she learns about & forms her own ideas & opinions." I agree completely. I see Joni as a free spirit who certainly availed herself of the experimentation and freedom of the 60's which people usually associate with the left. And some of her later work (notably, _Dog Eat Dog_) put a distinctively liberal slant on specific political issues. However, she also sees to possess a strong streak of "personal conservatism" that I can't quite put my finger on (perhaps related in some way to her Canadian prairie upbringing in the 1950's?). And I also remember her comments that she did not consider herself a "feminist," a term which, if I'm recalling correctly, she mainly associated with the leftist women's movement of the 60's and 70's, as that played out in everyday life then. Perhaps Joni has made a career out of rebelling against "rules" of one sort or another precisely because, on one level, she's so aware of them. The bottom line is that I don't see Joni subscribing to "isms" of any stripe, in either her personal or professional life. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:26:27 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Joni and politics I had dinner with a friend recently, a really bright woman who had a room mate who is a Canadian singer/song writer who is a friend of Joni's. About six years ago, my friend went to a dinner with the Canadian and his friend, Joni Mitchell, and her husband at the time, Larry Klein. My friend is a very bright, educated woman. At the time, she and her current husband had only recently met. He was very impressed that on their second date they were having dinner with Joni Mitchell. My friend thought Joni looked great and had very nice skin. Her perception of Joni was that she was shy. My friend was intimidated by Joni because she's a great artist. The Canadian singer later said that Joni was intimidated by my friend because of her education. As for Joni's politics, I remember seeing a painting she had donated in '72 to the McGovern campaign. It comes as no surprise to the people on this list that she has always been terribly concerned with the environment. She has dual Canadian and American citizenship, so I am sure that if she voted it was for either Gore or Nader. My chief concern in this entire election has been the environment as even personal rights are secondary when it comes to the degradation of our one and only Earth. Texas is the most polluted state in the union, and people in places like Odessa have the highest blood and lung cancer rates in the country, a result of Bush's laxing pollution regulations. Putting oilmen like Bush and Cheney in the White House is like putting wolves in charge of the flock. Bush has made it clear that he wants to violate the Alaskan wilderness to pump oil, and he shows no interest in bio-mass or alternative fuels which will diminish the profits of the oil corporations. I have a lot of appreciation for the Libertarians, but environmental plunder is an example of where government needs to intervene. As a people, our government can't just allow anyone to create and conduct businesses without regards to the consequences of the damages they inflict. I have always personally felt that the embrace of automobile culture by the United States is a collective insanity -- as a result we all breathe polluted air that gives lung cancer to thousands of nonsmokers and our one and only earth is carved up with ugly roads. Thousands and thousands of us die each year in automobile accidents. The car has been a bad thing for us all. I hate how much money I have to spend on mine in order to be an economically viable employee in Los Angeles. If we are honest with ourselves, the real reason we drive cars is because of the status they lend to us, just as medieval nobles all had to ride on horses, and never walk like the "pedestrians." respectfully, Clark NP: Vertical Horizon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:05:00 -0600 From: Steve Anderson Subject: Joni music I sent an email yesterday to the list and someone named Bob responded to helping me with some live Joni and I accidently deleted all my emails. Would you please send me your list again. I am sorry for the repost. Thanks Steve Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:26:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni and politics > If we are honest with ourselves, the real reason > we drive cars is because of the status they lend to us, just as medieval > nobles all had to ride on horses, and never walk like the "pedestrians." the real reason I drive a car is becase without it I would not have freedom to go where and when I please. I also would be extrememly limited to where I could go, living in thre country with very little in the way of public transport. My vet is 12 miles away. Some of my friends are 10 miles away, down dirt tracks. There are people who live in even mor isolated places. I saw many such people on my New England trip. It is very easy for city dwellers, who can do without a car, to forget about those who do not live in a city. bw colin > > > respectfully, > > Clark > > NP: Vertical Horizon - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:52:59 -0000 From: "Steve" Subject: re left leaning Joni-fans Bob Murphy wrote <<< I, too, lean to the left most of the time.>>>>> Bob, Have you tried to change your underwear style for that leaning problem 8 ))) <<<>>>> I must admit I've thought about this too, and having little interest in politics, I do tend to favour the needy over the greedy. Joni's lyrics suggest this too " Who let the greedy in, and who left the needy out ". <<<<<<<<>>>>>> Whilst never ever having, or wanting, "rich peoples problems". The wisest piece of advice I ever received with regard to being "liberal" or occupying the "middle ground" was that with regard to the political *see-saw* . The position of ultimate control isn't sitting out on either extreme, great fun as it may be as you WHOOOOOOSHHH up and down but the person who stands with one foot on one side and one foot on the other. That way you can control who goes up and who goes down..............a bit like the voters in Florida ;~) Steve.........the impossible dreamer........and sometime see-saw balancing act NP. Jackie Leven.....The Crazy Song ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:47:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) Mary wrote: > Kakki, I don't want to read into your comment a suggestion >that Joni's comments against Clinton, whatever they may >have been, implied that she did not sympathize with the >goals of the political left, because I'm not at all sure that's >what you meant. I never said it, did not mean to imply it and don't believe it. I'm also not the one who originally asserted that the Joni list is left-leaning, either. Some people here were appearing to say that Joni's beliefs are the same as theirs. Whether or not Clinton is right-left wing or left wing, Clinton is widely regarded and supported by many of the same people claiming Joni as their own politically. I was only showing an example that maybe Joni would not agree 100% with them. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:00:01 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: ISO: Joni, 4/15/73 hey everyone, Does anyone have a CD copy of Joni's performance from April 15, 1973 that they will be willing to burn for me for blanks and postage or a trade? It is the only CD I have that skips b/c I was stupid and didn't send the case with it when I got my copy made. It skips during Just Like This Train. Please don't bother replying if your burner can't extract audio correctly or it burns CDs in track at once mode (2 second gaps in between tracks). It's an awesome performance that I would like a flawless copy of. I can burn CDs too but my burner does put those gaps in between, so if that doesn't bother you and if you've got a copy of it, I'm in luck! I'm always looking for new Joni, especially any 1976 and 1972ish concerts. I've got tons to trade! I can remove any tape hiss from my collection and burn to CD making them sound as good as master of first generation copies. If you've got other stuff to trade I'm always willing to trade. My Joni colection has been pretty dormant lately since I've been trying to get larger non-Joni collections going. Thanks in advance! NP-Joni, 3/3/72-Cold Blue Steel - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:11:40 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: All Things Joni? I was wondering, what is the "All Things Joni" I've seen referenced here a # of times - video of some sort? Radio Show? Just curious. NP:The Way It Is -JM ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:35:01 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: a non joni fans reactions to joni tunes Taking a step out from politics here. wehn in the states this summer i met a guy named Jim that seemed to love music, but was totally Joni-ignorant. against my own wishes he got me to record two cds worth of Joni tracks (i know, not very ethical). twenty eight or twenty nine songs in total, not taken from Jonis entire catalogue i must admit, but limited to the albums i had taken with me to the states. were i to make these choices again i would make a very different selection. the first set of my choices were more or less like the Hits package. kind of trying to show variety within Joni's career, choosing some of her most easily likeable songs (or so i thought). well, Jim finally sent me his dissection, and scored the songs out of ten from teh first cd. i have copied his email below. just remember that he had never heard any Joni before. i'll be sending him my official e-mail of rebuttal/agreement shortly. let me see what ye all think of his opinions: "Ok here I am finally recording my thoughts on Ms. Mitchell. Big Yellow Taxi- I'm not so sure on this one. On the one hand, it's jaunty and fun. On the other hand, I can't stand the end when she giggles. (Not a huge complaint, I know.) Score 5. Chelsea Morning- I like this one. Jaunty as above. Nice guitar work. Folky sounding. Score 9. Both Sides Now- I think you know how much I like this. It almost doesn't matter who has covered it, whether Judy Collins, Maire Brennan or even Leonard Nimoy. I like the guitars in this. I like the way she sings it too. I must say that I enjoy Judy's version a bit more and speeded up since that is what I grew up on. Score 10. Carey- I'd have to say it was a disadvantage that I was able to listen to Cyndi's version. I grew much more attached to that one. I enjoy the song quite a bit but I like it slowed down. That percussion in the background makes it sound like one of Vince Guaraldi's scores for the Peanuts cartoons. I think it carries much more emotional weight that way. Score 7. Cyndi's 10. River- Love this one. Probably due to Travis. I like this version best though. It carries a lot of emotion. Kind of a plaintive tone to it. I absolutely am a sucker for piano such as this. It makes me melt. Score 10. California- Listening to this with headphones on you can hear the guitar picking at different times thru each ear. Very nice track. Nice slide guitar. Score 8. Real Good For Free (from MOA)- Don't care much for this as a live track with her giggling. But it is beautiful as a solo piano piece. Is it that way in studio form? Score 8. You Turn Me On I'm A Radio- I like this one. I don't think I can make any complaint on this. Score 9. Harry's House/ Centerpiece- This first part I like. It reminds me of James Taylor. I can't say why, really. I don't like the second part. It's too jazz/swingy. It is totally incongruous to the earlier part. Score Harry 10- Centerpiece 5. Hejira- The opening part of this is terrific. Very moody. Very low key as well. Score 9. Why Do Fools Fall In Love- Forgive me this attack. It is utter shite. She should steer well clear of doo-wopp. It doesn't suit her style, sensibility, or voice. Score -10. Free Man In Paris (S & L)- This is ok. Doesn't do anything special for me. Might be better studio. Score 5. The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines (S & L)- Same as above. Score 5. Chinese Café/Unchained Melody- I like this one. I think most of the appeal lay behind the UM undertones. It has always been a favorite tune for me. (Except oddly enough, the Righteous Brothers version. I love U2's.) This is a very relaxing tune. Score 10. The Reoccurring Dream- This reminds me of Laurie Anderson. And I don't think fondly of her. It smacks of experimental late 70's. Score 3. Turbulent Indigo- I like the guitar. Sounds a little funky. Nice with the minimal sax. Again, very moody piece. Score 9. The Magdalene Laundries- Very nice opening with synth and whatever. (I'm no musician.) It's very atmospheric. Score 10. The Sire Of Sorrow-I like this piece as well. I think I tend towards her more introspective or quiet pieces. Score 9. Sometimes I'm Happy- Jazzy. Big band. But you knew that. Nevertheless, I like it. Score 9. All of the reviews were made while listening to the song on headphones. Please feel free to debate the merits of any particular track. It may be January before I get to disc 2 but who knows." so, what do ye think?? GARRET np- Oasis- Whatever ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:46:57 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: a non joni fans reactions to joni tunes I think your friend has a good ear, and is fairly adventurous in his tastes, since he gives high marks to songs throughout Joni's career. I'm not advising you to violate copyright, since "it would be wrong," (to quote Richard Nixon), but wouldn't it be interesting if your friend got a chance to hear some of the LESS "easily likeable" stuff? I bet he could handle it! > Chelsea Morning- I like this one. Jaunty as above. Nice guitar work. > Folky sounding. Score 9. > > Both Sides Now- I think you know how much I like this. It almost doesn't > matter who has covered it, whether Judy Collins, Maire Brennan or even > Leonard Nimoy. I like the guitars in this. I like the way she sings it > too. I must say that I enjoy Judy's version a bit more and > speeded up since > that is what I grew up on. Score 10. > Carey- I'd have to say it was a disadvantage that I was able to listen to > Cyndi's version. I grew much more attached to that one. I enjoy the song > quite a bit but I like it slowed down. That percussion in the background > makes it sound like one of Vince Guaraldi's scores for the > Peanuts cartoons. > I think it carries much more emotional weight that way. Score 7. Cyndi's > 10. > > River- Love this one. Probably due to Travis. I like this version best > though. It carries a lot of emotion. Kind of a plaintive tone to it. I > absolutely am a sucker for piano such as this. It makes me melt. > Score 10. > > California- Listening to this with headphones on you can hear the guitar > picking at different times thru each ear. Very nice track. Nice slide > guitar. Score 8. > > Real Good For Free (from MOA)- Don't care much for this as a live track > with her giggling. But it is beautiful as a solo piano piece. Is it that > way in studio form? Score 8. > > You Turn Me On I'm A Radio- I like this one. I don't think I can make any > complaint on this. Score 9. > > Harry's House/ Centerpiece- This first part I like. It reminds > me of James > Taylor. I can't say why, really. I don't like the second part. It's too > jazz/swingy. It is totally incongruous to the earlier part. Score Harry > 10- Centerpiece 5. > > Hejira- The opening part of this is terrific. Very moody. Very > low key as > well. Score 9. > > Why Do Fools Fall In Love- Forgive me this attack. It is utter > shite. She > should steer well clear of doo-wopp. It doesn't suit her style, > sensibility, or voice. Score -10. > > Free Man In Paris (S & L)- This is ok. Doesn't do anything > special for me. > Might be better studio. Score 5. > > The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines (S & L)- Same as above. Score 5. > Chinese Café/Unchained Melody- I like this one. I think most of > the appeal > lay behind the UM undertones. It has always been a favorite tune for me. > (Except oddly enough, the Righteous Brothers version. I love U2's.) This > is a very relaxing tune. Score 10. > The Reoccurring Dream- This reminds me of Laurie Anderson. And I don't > think fondly of her. It smacks of experimental late 70's. Score 3. > Turbulent Indigo- I like the guitar. Sounds a little funky. > Nice with the > minimal sax. Again, very moody piece. Score 9. > The Magdalene Laundries- Very nice opening with synth and > whatever. (I'm no > musician.) It's very atmospheric. Score 10. > > The Sire Of Sorrow-I like this piece as well. I think I tend towards her > more introspective or quiet pieces. Score 9. > > Sometimes I'm Happy- Jazzy. Big band. But you knew that. > Nevertheless, I > like it. Score 9. Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:45:10 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: A Joni moment....... Not sure if anyone's mentioned this already, but spotted a Joni reference on reading Ben Elton's "Inconceivable". Towards the end, the guy in the novel's wife leaves him, and he decides to write a novel called "You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone". Can recommend book, for those who don't know it, its a comedy about infertility and IVF and all that. Quite a sensitive treatment, with some poignant moments, and also plenty of good knob gags. Phil _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:30:24 -0600 From: Richard Rice Subject: Look out the left the captain said. Joni Fans lean to the left...? Really? Well, it will be hard for me to make any serious commentary about that since... just about anything I would say is self-agrandizement. (fun living on the left being certain I'm right.) Joni's appeal is that she is very introspective and reflective, which may appeal across a broad spectrum of political views, but will most appeal to those who have endured a good deal of introspection and reflection in their own lives. People who have found themselves 'on the outside' are more likely to reflect on their position. The 'outside' can be of many human experiences, being outside of a positive love relationship, or outside the power brokering of Washington politics. Perhaps a larger portion of the right never felt the need to question as much. Also, musically, she has stepped across wide boundaries of culture and divides. --Not the sort of thing most conservatives I've met hold in the highest regard. And for all her fluff about women's lib, she is the model of the type of woman they aspire to. Lots of reasons with this girl for libs to glam on to her. Not to mention having written an anthem to the hippie movement... As for rhetoric of the right being 'evil.' I respect conservative politics and in many ways my own views are very conservative. (I would hire out to pull switches at Federal Pens, for example...) My good buddy Mark (who bears an uncanny resemblence to Bob Muller btw...!) is a die-hard conservative. We never see anything the same way but we both respect the other's position. Great guy, great stance in life. But there is a great deal of what is going on with the Republican party and it's leaders that is VERY evil to me. When people pass legislation to limit rights, constrain benefits, deny constitution protections and access to goverment processes, and to do these things WILLFULLY, well... to me that is evil in its purest form. They do harm to the quality and well being of other people's lives. As an example, the lack of effort and the intense homophobic bias shown by the Reagan and Bush adminitrations during the AIDS crisis is nothing short of evil. People suffered needlessly and died because of their bias. The 'company' Al Gore has kept for the last 8 years pales in comparison to the company Bush embraces. His politcal friends have nothing but the lowest contempt for the value and lives of gay people. I'd rather vote for neither, but given the choice of putting my rights, my benefits, my representation in government in the hands of someone I can't trust (Clinton/Gore) or putting my rights in the hands of someone I can absolutely trust WILL NEVER RESPECT THEM, well... the choice is easy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:36:08 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: A Joni moment....... > novel called "You Don't Know What > You've Got Till It's Gone". This line is also being used on the BBC right now to advertise David Attenborough's new series on the state of the planet. bw colin ps glad to see you are still with us ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:39:12 +0000 From: Nancy Subject: Re: Ages/Joni CD to purchase next? It's been fun reading the comments made about ages…of those who responded, the majority seem to be mid-40's. Since I started this thread, I guess I should share *my* age! I'm 44. My favorite Joni recording is Miles of Aisles, so I would suggest that one! Nancy/IA ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #433 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?