From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #432 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, November 12 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 432 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT [byron bentley ] Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] yeah right [Yael Harlap ] Less than a week!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] [none] ["Dave and Beth Fairall" ] 4 general discussion ["P. Henry" ] N - JC reminder [Mark Domyancich ] Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Craziness [Penny ] Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees [Steve Anderson ] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (vljc) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni and Clinton (VLJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: N - JC reminder [Penny ] Re: Joni and Clinton (VLJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:27:05 -0800 From: byron bentley Subject: Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT Hello John: That's easy. Go to the record store and find the Joni Mitchell section. Close you eyes and choose any three. If you find you already have one of them, put it back and you will buy those two. If you don't have any of them buy all three. These are the ones you were meant to have. If Hejira is not one of the choices, cheat. REPEAT OFTEN Byron John Stilwell wrote: > Greetings all: What Joni discs do you experts suggest next. After Blue > (which is a masterpiece) and Hits (I love) What comes next? I'm looking to > pick up two or three more! > > Thanks, John ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:49:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT << If Hejira is not one of the choices, cheat. >> LOL!!!! John, hopefully by now your assignment is clear...I expect a full report after you've given it about 5-10 spins.... Bob NP: Joe Slomp, "Takin' it to the Streets" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:16:54 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: yeah right Marcel said: >So as usual the Demos are obfuscating the issue with >fabricated assertions that they know are invalid. I'm sure Buchanan said that those votes couldn't actually be for him and that they were for Gore because he wants to help the Democrats. Yeah, Buchanan wants Gore to win so he is helping the Democrats in their fabrication. I don't think so. - -Yael, who thinks that both Republicans and Democrats lie (but that this ballot thing isn't a fabrication) - who is going to make it up to the highest level in politics without lying? Sadly, no one, the way things are at this point. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:46:00 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Less than a week!! To sign up for VideoTree #2!!! Sign up now at: http://www.jmdl.com/trading/leafsignup.cfm Operators are standing by! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:58:59 -0600 From: "Dave and Beth Fairall" Subject: [none] Good idea, but you know the Republicans would never let that happen, as the outcome would no doubt give the election to Gore. Bush is more then willing to get in however he can, and the fact that his entire tenure will be tainted is irrevelent. I just wonder what the "liberal media", {Limbaugh, George Will etc}, would have to say if a re-vote was allowed. Let's not forget the NAACP, as Kweisi is stirrin up his constituients as well, pursuing allegations of racial improprieties. It'll be interesting to see how the Republicans spin this one if the election stands as is, a tough 4 years ahead for them no doubt. DF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:53:24 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: 4 general discussion hi gang, the following is a reply I made to a note someone wrote to me and, FWIW, I thought it might interest some of you... cheers, pat NP: A Case Of You - Diana Krall (live) http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/ ":o), yeah, to tell you the truth, I find it a bit staggering myself, even now... Joni was SO cool as a person and to me a mentor... I don't know how much you've hung around entertainers but there is a certain 'breakthrough' of ego that one goes through as they bridge the gap from stagefright to feeling right at home in the spotlight with everyone staring at them and hanging on every word. I think the advent of karaoke may have softened this gap some but it's still there... experience tells me that most people don't handle this well and the adjustments one makes usually bring on a sort of primadonna effect. I recall one time there was this rather good folk- blugrass-ragtime player named Bob Simpson who I called up in Detroit to see if he wanted a weekend... I had known him since I was 15 playing in my first coffeehouse in a detroit suburb and knew this guy was a codeine addict as he kept a bottle of pure codeine in the pick compartment of his guitar case. anyway, he vaguely declined and I told him ok and hung up and dutifully called around and found a female duo that had played before and they agreed to play. well, the weekend came around and, as you've probably guessed by now, both acts showed up! I want to tell you, the sheer tension of having these three people in the same room was unbearable and the hostility toward one another, and toward me, was unbelievable! generally speaking you're just better off not having two performers in close proximity at any given time... it's kind of like nationalism... they almost have to despise the other to justify their own existance. wow, I really went off there, didn't I? LoL!!! at any rate, my point is that Joni was totally different. in fact, it really amazed me how nurturing she was toward me as a musician and would sit there and take in my whole set and clap and wistle louder than anyone... and when we would jam, she would ask me to play stuff, and actually sit there and listen to the whole thing! (or join in...) when I hear her going off on Jewel or someone and see the reactions onlist I know that people really don't understand. it's NOT selfish as they assume... her bitching is about the trashing of ART and not about comparing herself to others or visa versa. (she's usually dead-on too, IMHO) think about it... how many musicians have you ever seen get romantically involved with other musicians? not many... it's usually with a non- musician. (Carly Simon, a notable exception) ...but look at Joni and her love life... this is REALLY different! almost weird... even her bands have been mostly her friends! think about it... :o) take care, pat" ps - as an afterthought, this may also partially explain the brevity of some of these pairings... Joni could handle it but the guys couldn't. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:55:21 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: N - JC reminder Everyone, Please remember to use the NJC tag in your subject line if your post doesn't pertain to anything Joni. This includes the Florida recount ordeal. Gracias, - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:03:15 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees > << if so, is the > continued operation of your trees due to jonis acceptance of the idea. >> > > Joni knows about the tape trees/CD trees/exchanges, and doesn't seem to mind. > At least that's what I understand...in one of the interviews she talks about > live performance and how she knows they are all being recorded and will > become permanent documents. > > Bob She also made a comment before she performed 'Crazy Cries of Love' at the Gorge that there was a boot of it floating around. I first heard the song when the Gene Autrey museum concert was broadcast. That version was later on a tape tree and there was another one of the finished cut on another tape tree. I think she knows. I think she also knows that it's her devoted fans that are doing this and that we are not stealing any revenue from her. We're doing it because we love her music and want to share the live & rare stuff. We also eagerly *purchase* every new release she comes out with. I'm sure she knows that & either blesses our sharing or doesn't care that we do it. Michelle should get over it! She should be glad that her fans care! Mark in Seattle PS: and many kudos to Bob who is wonderful about sharing his music and all the others who regularly step up to the plate to make copies for us. Also to Simon, Ashara, Sherrie Goode & Barbara Burst for putting together such great tape, cd & video compilations to tree. You guys rock! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:16:21 +0700 From: "william" Subject: Alternatives to Joni Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for Joni, like tonight. Alternatives? Annie Lennox's Diva is going through my head. (Because I'm far away from home and have to rely on play-it-in-my-head) Diva. Primitive. Sends me every time. To where you might ask. To the here and now and the past and the future. Why. Tell me why. It touches me. Annie's a Joni fan. It shows. ........ to the water's edge and we can cast away those doubts .......... Such a good album and an alternative to, Joni day-in-day-out. I am not in love, though I'm open to persuasion. Downstairs in Danny's All-Star joint they got a juke box that goes doink doink. Seems lately when I walk down the street there's somethin' in my neighbourhood. Odd how they are all women. Women how they are all odd. How odd are they all women. A bored Willy the Shake and looking for alternatives. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Re: Craziness Man, I dislike writing from my yahoo addy - my last post didn't include the quote from Kakki that I had posted along with my reply....weird. (and posts aren't showing up in my yahoo mailbox in a timely or sequential manner either - what a pain.) So here's what I sent, because for some reason the whole thing didn't show up last time. ;-) Kakki wrote: From what I heard on NPR, many of the people who double-punched had already put their ballots in the ballot box. When they asked for a new ballot to re-do it, the person overseeing that polling place could not, by law, give them another ballot once the original ballot went in the box. The overseer is not allowed by law to open up the ballot box and take the "bad" ballots out. It's easy to say let everyone re-vote but truly you must consider that some people would change their votes now that they know how the election is turning out. It's would be giving an unfair advantage no matter how noble the intention and it would set bad precedent legally. Hi Kakki! I never said a word about a re-vote or about people casting more than one ballot. Maybe I didn't make myself clear in relaying the experiences of an "offical" counter in the state of Oregon. First off, this was a person who only saw the ballots after the fact, not while people were in the booths or putting them in the ballot box. She was telling us about when they did hand counts of these double punched ballots. It was her experience that they always found numbers of ballots where when a double punch was made, that the voter had taken the ballot out of the machine in the booth, trying to correct the mistake they made on their own, marked their preference by circling or underlining their intention or ex-ing out the punch made in error. These are the types of things she said that show up in a hand count of the intial vote. She also was telling about the machine errors found in a hand count that are being talked about on CNN and other channels. Like said, in Oregon, in the hand count process, when the counters can clearly see the desired intent of that voter's ballot, their vote is added accordingly to the tally. (Has anyone heard how the 19,000 thrown out ballots are being physically handled??) Please forgive any misunderstanding for not explaining further in my intial post(s). Penny __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:02:33 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) In a message dated 11/11/00 12:26:57 PM, donbvs@lightspeed.net writes: << Yes, this is the joni mitchell list and therefore no surprise that it leans pretty far to the left most of the time. >> I, too, lean to the left most of the time. However, I can't help but wonder why Joni's list members as a group are so much more liberal than conservative. Why is that? Her subject matter hasn't been all that 'liberal' in 30 years (Big Yellow Taxi, Woodstock, Blue, for example). And as Joni has said, the problems she has these days are "rich people's problems." Can we therefore assume that left-leaning people generally have better taste in music? And while we're at it, what do conservatives listen to, anyway? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:07:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees << She also made a comment before she performed 'Crazy Cries of Love' at the Gorge that there was a boot of it floating around. >> OK, you ain't gonna believe this...I was getting to burn a CD of this same show for a friend and thought I'd give it a spin first, just to enjoy it and make sure it sounds good. (It does...this one and Kanata, with Atlanta close behind, are the best shows she did in '98. Oops, can't forget the "Day In The Garden" show...that takes the proverbial cake! I heard that comment and was gonna post it to the list, then I read your post...damn, sometimes this synchronicity thing scares me! ;~) And if you haven't read the story, this show was when Wally met Joni for the first time...it's there on JM.com and is a very touching & affecting story with a great pic of Wally & Joni. Bob NP: "Slouching Towards Bethlehem", George, WA 5/16/98 PS: Anybody have a copy of the 5/17 show? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:22:56 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) > << Yes, this is the joni mitchell list and therefore no surprise that it > leans pretty far to the left most of the time. >> > > I, too, lean to the left most of the time. However, I can't help but wonder > why Joni's list members as a group are so much more liberal than > conservative. Why is that? Her subject matter hasn't been all that 'liberal' > in 30 years (Big Yellow Taxi, Woodstock, Blue, for example). Maybe we're not listening to the same records. 'Sex Kills', 'Magdalene Laundries', 'No Apology' - Joni has included at least one song with a left leaning, semi to blatant, political theme on all of her records since 'Dog Eat Dog.' She may have rich people's problems but her concerns about the environment and the corporate greed that is threatening to swallow us all up is well documented. I think she's more out-spoken that she was in her early years. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:24:57 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees > And if you haven't read the story, this show was when Wally met Joni for the > first time...it's there on JM.com and is a very touching & affecting story > with a great pic of Wally & Joni. > > Bob It was also the only time I got to meet Wally. A great show, indeed. And thanks to the list, I have it on tape & can relive it whenever I want. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:42:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Take a River break! Go wash yourself in the river! A nice cover of Joni's "River", that is...here's all you have to do, and trust me, it's easy. Even *I* did it! 1. Go to http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/zapcentral.shtml 2. Do a search on artists for "Bettie Seervert" 3. When it comes up, go to the far right of the screen, and play their cover of River! 4:39 of jangly Joni bliss! 4. Don't thank me, thank Monica in Holland for the tip! And also, speaking of Holland, Monica also tells me there's a new record by a Dutch jazz singer named Caroline de Rooij with another cover of River! Any Dutch JMDLer's who can step up and find this one? Hopefully it'll be a Dutch treat, not a Dutch rub! :~) Bob NP: Facelift ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:38:02 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) Mark wrote: > Maybe we're not listening to the same records. 'Sex Kills', > 'Magdalene Laundries', 'No Apology' - Joni has included at >least one song with a left leaning, semi to blatant, political >theme on all of her records since 'Dog Eat Dog.' She may >have rich people's problems but her concerns about the >environment and the corporate greed that is threatening to >swallow us all up is well documented. I think she's > more out-spoken that she was in her early years. A few months back on the list someone posted a link to a recent interview with Joni where she came out against Bill Clinton with a few remarks that some people here would not find complimentary. Not one person commented on this here. My point is that just because you don't have regard or agree with one particular individual of a political party does not automatically nullify all your sensitivity or goodness or worth. It's just an individual right to choose. Concerns about corporate greed and the environment are not the sole province of the left and it is really unfair for one group to think they are the only ones with a claim to goodness. I'm not referring to you specifically Mark, because I've always thought of you as one of the more fair and balanced people I've ever met. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:58:18 -0600 From: Steve Anderson Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees I am new to the list and saw Joni a couple of times. Saw her on the Miles Of Aisles Tour and Hejira tour with Pat Metheny and Jaco. Noticed some discussion about live performances and have to chime in. If someone didn't record all these legends years ago there wouldn't be any record of any of their music. Someone taped all of Charlie (Bird) Parkers solos and they released it legit years and years later to document the time period. Carlos Santana put out a cd called Sacred Songs which had live Coltrane, Hendrix, Marley and Marvin Gaye among others which were never released legitimately before. There is definitely a historic place for these things. Look at the Grateful Dead thousands of hours of their performances have been traded in excellent soundboard quality and now they themselves are putting out 3 or 4 live releases from the vault and the fans still buy them. These other artists are missing the boat when they don't do the same. A friend of mine supplied the Doors tapes of shows they didn't have for release on their box set. Now for my question how can I get a some live Joni? I especially like her Blue period and have some things from other times but not many and would like to get some good quality recording. I live in Oklahoma and Joni is not played here at all. Anyone be willing to make me some of the cd trees for B and P or I have lots of Dylan to trade. Any help would be appreciated. I did sign up for the video tree but I do not have the first video tree so if anyone would be so kind to make me a copy I could do whatever. Thanks for any help. Steve Anderson Mark or Travis wrote: > > > << if so, is the > > continued operation of your trees due to jonis acceptance of the > idea. >> > > > > Joni knows about the tape trees/CD trees/exchanges, and doesn't seem > to mind. > > At least that's what I understand...in one of the interviews she > talks about > > live performance and how she knows they are all being recorded and > will > > become permanent documents. > > > > Bob > > She also made a comment before she performed 'Crazy Cries of Love' at > the Gorge that there was a boot of it floating around. I first heard > the song when the Gene Autrey museum concert was broadcast. That > version was later on a tape tree and there was another one of the > finished cut on another tape tree. I think she knows. I think she > also knows that it's her devoted fans that are doing this and that we > are not stealing any revenue from her. We're doing it because we love > her music and want to share the live & rare stuff. We also eagerly > *purchase* every new release she comes out with. I'm sure she knows > that & either blesses our sharing or doesn't care that we do it. > > Michelle should get over it! She should be glad that her fans care! > > Mark in Seattle > PS: and many kudos to Bob who is wonderful about sharing his music and > all the others who regularly step up to the plate to make copies for > us. Also to Simon, Ashara, Sherrie Goode & Barbara Burst for putting > together such great tape, cd & video compilations to tree. > You guys rock! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:13:54 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Judy Collins draws Canadian Ire ..and the home of the brave. - -Julius <> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:33:31 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) > > My point is that just because you don't have regard or agree with one > particular individual of a political party does not automatically nullify > all your sensitivity or goodness or worth. It's just an individual right to > choose. Concerns about corporate greed and the environment are not the sole > province of the left and it is really unfair for one group to think they are > the only ones with a claim to goodness. I'm not referring to you > specifically Mark, because I've always thought of you as one of the more > fair and balanced people I've ever met. > > Kakki > The lines seem to become more blurred all the time, don't they? I doubt that Joni subscribes to any particular political party or group either here or in Canada. Joni strikes me as much too independent in her thinking to go along completely with any one philosophy or religion or train of political thought. She takes whatever truth she discerns in everything she learns about & forms her own ideas & opinions. For the record, my brother is staunchly Republican. He voted for Reagan & Bush and even admits to voting for Nixon. I make it a rule never to discuss politics with him. Partly because I love him, partly because I have to honestly admit that I don't keep myself that well-informed. So as a general rule I don't join in political discussions. I will say that I recognized a lot of the anger that was in Clark's post about political parties as being deeply ingrained in myself as well. Watch the film 'The Band Played On' or read the book some time. That's part of what makes me lean one direction rather than the other. But I certainly don't think my brother is evil. I enjoy his company & we seem to love & appreciate each other at this point of our lives more than we ever have. I also don't think he wants to take away my civil rights or would be against my having the right to marry Travis. Quite frankly, when I do take the time to listen to the evening news or read a newspaper article about a candidate or issue, I don't know what to believe anymore. There is so much 'spin' on everything - statistics can be slanted or distorted to fit almost anyone's point of view. In that regard, the debates were a farce, as far as I'm concerned. And I've gotten to where I almost don't believe *anything* that is in a political ad. Here in Washington state the senatorial race between Maria Cantwell & incumbent Slade Gorton is also 'too close to call' and probably won't be decided for some time. During the last few weeks before the election, Cantwell ran an ad saying that Gorton was in favor of a proposed open pit goldmine in central Washington that would use an extraction process involving cyanide. The ad showed an explosion on a mountainside and then cut to footage of children as concern was expressed about cyanide polluting the water. Gorton followed this up with an ad that said 'Maria Cantwell is losing and is saying desperate things. Now she is saying that Slade Gorton wants to blow up mountains & poison children.' That may not be an exact quote but it's pretty damn close to the voice over for Gorton's ad. Both of these ads were blatant attempts to push emotional buttons. How much truth is in either one of them? How can a voter make an informed choice with all the spin & emotional rhetoric coming from both sides? Yes, both sides. I have to agree with Kakki on that one. I don't know that I even trust the media any more than I trust the politicians. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:45:13 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's left-leaning fans SJC i confess that i too have been left-of-center most of my life, although as i grow older, i don't have a lot of patience for liberals sometimes -- but don't tell anyone. i've never really thought of joni as a liberal!!! in fact, i have always considered her ''naughty'' but pretty conservative. maybe that's one of the aspects that drew me to her: much though i've loved every minute of my political struggles in argentina, i could never shake my fist at lightning ALL the fricking TIME!!! been there, done that. i needed a break. joni has always been more of a bourgeois pleasure to me. almost a guilty pleasure, if you knew some of my battlefield companions... i guess i am gradually going through THE CHANGE, which contrary to the majority's opinion is not menopause but the transition from left-winger to liberal to bourgeois to moderate eyebrow raiser. i want to have a partner, i want to have a home, i want to have a dog. i'm not sure that i will be fleeced with the martha stewart flock any time soon, but i may be going there! wallyK, out of touch with the breakdown of this century? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:58:50 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (vljc) > I doubt that Joni subscribes to any particular political party >or group either here or in Canada. Joni strikes me as much >too independent in her thinking to go along completely with >any one philosophy or religion or train of political thought. >She takes whatever truth she discerns in everything she >learns about & forms her own ideas & opinions. Right on, Mark. > I will say that I recognized a lot of the anger that was in >Clark's post about political parties as being deeply ingrained >in myself as well. Watch the film 'The Band Played On' or >read the book some time. That's part of what makes me >lean one direction rather than the other. That anger is completely understandable to me. > But I certainly don't think my brother is evil. I enjoy his >company & we seem to love & appreciate each other at this >point of our lives more than we ever have. I also don't think >he wants to take away my civil rights or would be against >my having the right to marry Travis. I may be deluded but it has always been my understanding that a true Republican, one who sticks to the original idealogy, is someone who staunchly believes in individual rights to live your life the way you choose. I think the original Republicans were more like the Libertarians of today. It seems that at some point there were a few factions that glommed onto the party and gave it a bad name. We all know what those factions are. Their original ideology of upholding individual freedom has been greatly perverted by the sway of those factions. There have also been factions that glommed onto the Democratic party over the years which have also undermined their ideology. If the left wing on this list could see my life's voting record on the issues I'm sure I would be "approved." I don't agree with many of Bush's stances, and I certainly don't think he's perfect or an attractive candidate. But I am like Pat - I do not trust Gore or anyone associated with the Clinton world. Period. I've had 8 years to observe them, so this is not a rash judgment. In fact, I started out really liking Gore years ago and having a very positive opinion of him which continued until just recently. Ironically, I initially had a very poor opinion of Bush, Jr. which continued until not too long ago, toor. There are many complex reasons why people vote the way that they do. Those who want to pidgeonhole our choices or preferences into set-in-stone inflexible terms should scare us, really. They want to divide so they can conquer. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:20:17 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) In a message dated 11/11/00 4:23:14 PM, I wrote: <> To which mark.travis@gte.net responded: << Maybe we're not listening to the same records. 'Sex Kills', 'Magdalene Laundries', 'No Apology' - Joni has included at least one song with a left leaning, semi to blatant, political theme on all of her records since 'Dog Eat Dog.' She may have rich people's problems but her concerns about the environment and the corporate greed that is threatening to swallow us all up is well documented. I think she's more out-spoken that she was in her early years. >> Sorry my original post was so badly worded; I certainly didn't mean to imply that I thought Joni had abandoned liberal causes or themes in her music over the years. I even thought of a couple of the songs you mentioned while I was writing that post -- plus "Cheroke Louise" and "Not to Blame" -- so I should have more correctly said, "Her well-known subject matter hasn't been all that 'liberal' in 30 years." Mea culpa, but I've been trying to prepare dinner and plan a seduction today. :-) But as far as public perception goes, I would guess that when *most* people think of Joni, they think of her folk years and her songs from that period. And if that's the period and those are the songs that most people identify with Joni, maybe they assume her politics are *too* liberal. (I was shocked to hear some of the comments from audience members as I was leaving Joni's Boston concert in May. Even her "fans," or people who like Joni enough to buy tickets to her concerts, are still looking for the friggin' dulcimer.) Anyway, with all the associations folk music has thoughout its long history with liberal politics and communism, I guess my muddled thought is that maybe that is one reason why conservatives don't seem to care for Joni. In any case, Joni is one of the most gifted artists of our time. But there are many artists who are farther to the left. What is it about her that keeps consevatives from enjoying her music? I hope this post makes a little more sense. Now I have to go find something to wear that makes me look thin. Wish me luck, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:35:33 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) In a message dated 11/11/00 5:00:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << A few months back on the list someone posted a link to a recent interview with Joni where she came out against Bill Clinton with a few remarks that some people here would not find complimentary. Not one person commented on this here. >> Bit if I recall correctly, Joni's comments were critical of Clinton's personality, not his politics or the way he was doing his job as president. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:40:59 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (vljc) In a message dated 11/11/00 6:19:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << I may be deluded but it has always been my understanding that a true Republican, one who sticks to the original idealogy, is someone who staunchly believes in individual rights to live your life the way you choose. I think the original Republicans were more like the Libertarians of today. >> If what you say were true, I doubt that Republican President Abraham Lincoln would have gone to war to preserve the Union, and instead would have favored the rights of states and their citizens to "live the life the way they choose." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:06:52 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and Clinton (VLJC) Paul wrote: > Bit if I recall correctly, Joni's comments were critical of >Clinton's personality, not his politics or the way he was >doing his job as president. Paul, thank you for affirming that this article does exist and contains critical remarks of Joni towards Clinton. I disagree, however, that her critical remarks referred to his personality. I'd like to locate it again (if it hasn't been purged). I remember very well what she said (since it assured me that I was still O.K. to be on her discussion list) and it was all about his character. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:23:20 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Re: N - JC reminder Mark reminded: >Please remember to use the NJC tag in your >subject line if your post doesn't pertain to >anything Joni. This includes the Florida >recount ordeal. My bad - I'm sorry for the one I screwed up not labeling correctly - please forgive me Mark and all. Penny __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 02:25:33 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Clinton (VLJC) In a message dated 11/11/00 11:22:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Paul wrote: > Bit if I recall correctly, Joni's comments were critical of >Clinton's personality, not his politics or the way he was >doing his job as president. Paul, thank you for affirming that this article does exist and contains critical remarks of Joni towards Clinton. I disagree, however, that her critical remarks referred to his personality. I'd like to locate it again (if it hasn't been purged). I remember very well what she said (since it assured me that I was still O.K. to be on her discussion list) and it was all about his character. Kakki >> Personality/character, t'was meant to be the same. My point was that her criticism's were not about Clinton's abilities or performance as President, which has been pretty darn good these past eight years, regardless of his weaknesses or failures in what would be most people's "private" life. Some people may consider character as crucial in a president. In some other periods of history, it might have been more important, but in this era when America is the world's domiant power and econmoy, ability and performance as president is crucial, in my book. In those areas, Clinton has performed admirably. Paul I ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #432 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?