From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #424 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, November 5 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 424 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics [Marian ] Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Rock stars and requests (SJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics [mags ] Cooder ["Blair Fraipont" ] The intellectuality of Joni's Lyrics and evoking emotions ["Happy The Man] Re: larsen ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] TNT "All-Star Tribute To Joni Mitchell" [Steven Barton ] painting with words? [jan gyn ] Top Five Light Shows ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: JM Discography, F & V CD's, Intellectuality of JM's lyrics [Nancy ] Joni songs that have made me cry ["Cassie Fox" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 06:17:24 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics P.S. I looked through the Lyrics book and found four songs which have made me cry when I heard or sang them: Hejira, Chinese Cafe, Night Ride Home and Cherokee Louise, so I guess what I said before is not entirely true. I also find Last Chance Lost quite emotional, at least in its delivery. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 03:39:03 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics Joni songs that invariably cause me to weep: Cold Blue Steel Little Green Amelia Facelift River Other songs that make me cry: "At Seventeen" Janis Ian "(I Feel) Just Like You Do" Carly Simon "Yesterday" - Beatles "For All We Know" - Donny Hathaway "Ave Maria" - Tuck Andress "His Eye Is On the Sparrow" - My Mom's version "Lover Man" - Billie Holliday - -Julius, who can cry you a river to skate away on at the drop of a disc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 06:23:02 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Rock stars and requests (SJC) Someone posted:- > As far as Joni is concerned, the only thing I can relate is this; During the BSN tour, Joni was booked to stay at The Seaport Hotel (my place of employment, but not at the time) in Boston, a non-smoking establishment with no openable windows. To my knowledge, Joni's contract states that wherever she stays MUST allow smoking, and if it does not, a window should be available (inferring that she will smoke against house policy). Though I wasn't there personally (I only started at this job in july...), Ms. Mitchell was apparently in a huff from the get go because of the lack of an openable window, but then came the problem with the chicken. Joni wants a baked chicken for her din-din, not fried, not grilled, but baked. When a grilled chicken was delivered to her room, that was the last straw. By the time one of my room service cohorts got back up to the 18th floor with a baked chicken, Joni was already set-a-packing, heading full speed to The Four Seasons. Can ya' blame 'er? The Seaport Hotel is located just a few minutes walk from the Fleet Boston Pavillion (former "Harborlights"), and must have seemed like a good idea to whomever booked the room. I now have to endure hearing about what a bitch Joni was every time she comes up at work....> Ouch! This hurts. Do you realise Ashara, Maggie and all, that if it hadn't been for some idiot grilling the chicken instead of baking it, we could have been sharing the bar with Joni as well as Larry Kline after the BSN show? Also Re Marmite. I have this for breakfast most days and although it looks and smells beefy it doesn't contain beef, only vegetable extracts. The beef containing one is Bovril but that's suffered a loss in sales here due to the BSE crisis. Shame because I used to love it. Jacky NP Paul Simon... You're the One ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:18:11 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > Joni songs that invariably cause me to weep: > > Cold Blue Steel > Little Green > Amelia > Facelift > River > > Other songs that make me cry: > > "At Seventeen" Janis Ian > "(I Feel) Just Like You Do" Carly Simon > "Yesterday" - Beatles > "For All We Know" - Donny Hathaway > "Ave Maria" - Tuck Andress > "His Eye Is On the Sparrow" - My Mom's version > "Lover Man" - Billie Holliday > > -Julius, > who can cry you a river to skate away on at the drop of a disc and from Mags who also cries rivers: first Joni: Little Green River Case of You The Magdalene Laundries Not to Blame The Sire of Sorrow (Jobs Sad Song) 45 Years: Stan Rogers Always: Jonatha Brooke Ce He Mise Le Ulaingt? The Two Trees: Loreena McKennitt All I Want is You: U2 Lover Lay Down: Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:02:45 EST From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Cooder Get Paradise and Lunch and Chicken Skin music if you can by ry cooder!! blair _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 09:20:33 -0800 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: The intellectuality of Joni's Lyrics and evoking emotions It depends on the situation. Some songs just due to my station in life make we weep like a blubbering idiot. It makes my wife laugh she is always saying you know that is impressive that a man 6'7" can cry like that (I am not asking for sympathy here). Probably for me when a Joni song made be weep was when Jody Denberg played "Both Sides Now" before the release and dedicated it to Wally. All the emotion of the moment was tied to that. "I looked at life from Both Side Now" had me weeping in my car. I would call "River" a good crying song (especially now since central texas is about to wash away). All this to say some songs that others cry about I don't and vice a versa. Peace, Craig NP: Lisa Loeb "How" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 12:21:47 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: larsen There's at least one release of the Larsen/Feiten Band from 1980. No Rickie vocals though. Produced by Tommy Lipuma from Michael Franks fame. Stephe in Vancouver "Wally Kairuz" on 11/03/2000 04:42:39 PM Please respond to "Wally Kairuz" To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com, joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Stephen Epstein/Agmont) Subject: larsen VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe bob, and he plays on girl at her volcano! i didn't know that he'd recorded on his own too. thanks for the tip!!!! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [mailto:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Enviado el: Viernes, 03 de Noviembre de 2000 02:51 p.m. Para: KakkiB@worldnet.att.net; wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Favorite pianists/keyboardists SJC Neil Larsen put out two mighty fine records back in the 80's that I enjoyed immensely, "Jungle Fever" and "High Gear". RLJ did some vocal work on the latter, very similar ethereal thing like what Joni did on the Brian Blade record this year. I never knew what the connection was between Neil & RLJ, so that makes sense now! Bob NP: Traffic, "No Face, No Name, No Number" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 13:43:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics << Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? >> From Joni's canon: 1. River (the dam bursts on "I made my baby cry, I made my baby say goodbye". This is indeed the magic of Joni - she didn't write this song for me but I feel like she did!) 2. Little Green (knowing what's behind the lyrics) 3. Circle Game (watching my baby boy grow up too fast) NJC: 1. Somewhere (West Side Story) 2. One Hand, One Heart (same show, and RLJ and Joe Jackson's duet on her new one is simply beautiful!) Bob NP: Ingvar Hallerstehl, "Tuba-ler Bells" ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 12:26:18 -0800 From: Steven Barton Subject: TNT "All-Star Tribute To Joni Mitchell" And I am offering the musical selections only on CD to those who still need a copy. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 17:25:49 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics > The thread about "Songs that evoke emotions" has moved > me to finally write about this - to try to put into > words what I feel about Joni's songs. > > I've played guitar for a long time, and have learned and > tried to sing a fair number of songs over the years > including many of Joni's. There are certain songs that > are so beautiful and so moving that I can hardly sing > them all the way through without bursting into tears > (Dylan's Every Grain Of Sand is one of them), or that > make me cry every time I hear them (Mary > Chapin-Carpenter's 10,000 Miles), but there has never > been one Joni song that moved me like that. I love > Joni's songs!!! I think they are very beautiful > lyrically and melodically (she is among my favorite > musicians), but I find her songs very cerebral. It's > like the emotions are transformed into beautiful > multicolored jewels and the metaphorical beauty is > moving, but I don't cry in response to it, even though > many of the songs are very melancholy. > > Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Hi Marian! Good to see you posting again! I've been thinking about this one ever since I read this post last night. Joni affects me in a very different way, as well. The only one of her songs I can think of that really makes the tears start is the new version of 'Both Sides Now.' The maturity and hind sight she brings to the song now really affects me. But mostly Joni makes me feel something entirely different from whatever feeling or feelings bring tears to my eyes. In part I feel a kind of respect and awe for the amazing excellence of their composition and expression. Of course there's more than that but that is part of it. Joni's voice is like an old friend to me. It's comforting. I feel the same way about Billie Holiday. Billie doesn't make me cry either. They both tap into very deep emotions but they don't make old wounds hurt. They soothe. They heal. They inspire. There are songs that almost never fail to bring tears and sometimes sobs. Mostly because they have very personal associations attached to them. There's a song on Bryan Thomas's 'Radio Plastic Jennifer' called 'Cycle' that I've only listened to once. I haven't been brave enough to play it again. Not knocking the song, Bry, it's a powerful and beautiful song that speaks some unfortunate truths. But it has personal associations that make it nearly unbearable for me. For some reason Peter, Paul & Mary can really get me going with certain songs. 'Day Is Done' used to make me sob every time I heard it. Also 'Light One Candle' and their live version of 'Blowin' In the Wind' on their Christmas cd are almost impossible for me to sing along with cause I choke up every time. Again, there are personal associations with these songs that make them particularly poignant for me. Richard Harris' final reprise of 'Camelot' at the end of that movie is another one but that's mostly just because I fell hopelessly in love with his character & the Arthurian legend in that one. Another one is the Airplane's version of 'Wooden Ships.' I was listening to Laura Nyro's 'Christmas In My Soul' in the car the other day and started thinking about my friend Denny who passed away last March. He loved to sing & he always threw his whole heart into it when he did. He also loved Christmas. I started thinking how much he would enjoy Laura wailing 'Christmas in my soul, Christmas in my soul' at the end of that song and wondering if he had ever heard it. I sobbed when the song ended. I think it was the most I had let that grief out since his death. Why do people have to be taken from us too soon? I'm grateful for Laura's music and for the Denny's friendship. I'm glad there was a Wally Breese & a Kenny Grant. But sometimes the loss just seems like too much to bear... Enough. Sorry for the bandwidth. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 20:30:29 -0500 (EST) From: sem8@cornell.edu Subject: re: songs that evoke emotion Hi Marian!! Great to hear from you, hope you are well, pal!! :-) Although I completely understand what you are saying about the cerebral nature of Joni's lyrics, there are a couple of songs that I can never play all the way through without choking up. #1 on that list is Little Green, especially since the Kilauren revelation but even before that I had a hard time getting through it. Also in that same vein is Morning Morgantown because I always think of it as an imaginary day out with the child she gave up. Also, since my daughter went to college, I COMPLETELY LOSE IT every time I play Sisotowbell Lane. Especially the last verse: Sisotowbell Lane Go to the city, you'll come back again To wade through the grain You always do, well sometimes you do Come back to the stars Sweet well water and pickling jars We'll lend you the car We always do, well sometimes we do We have a rocking chair Someone is always there Rocking rhythms while we're waiting With a candle in the window We always do, we wait for you WAAAAAHHH!!! That's a killer. Oh, yeah and then there's Magdalene Laundries. Maybe I'm just a MUSH. take care, sue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:05:25 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Favorite Arrangers / Producers 1st: George Martin. This man's contribution to middle and late period Beatles is not widely recognized, especially in the wake of losing John. George Martin rocks! McCartney's amazing "Elanor Rigby" is what it is because of George Martin. 2nd: Steely Dan. Donald Fagen and Walter Becker have put everything from Bop to Gospel into their eclectic gumbo but it always retains their characteristic care and jump factor. Unlike bands whose debut represents their creative peak, Donald and Walter haven't lost a thing. If anything, "Two Against Nature" is funkier, more danceable than ever. I feel that it is in a league with "Aja", and "Gaucho". Highly recommended. 3nd: Joni. Through the years, she has tried everything from an Appalacian dulcimer to the ultra-modern (and unreleased!) VG-8 in search of a new voice for the muse, a new texture for the canvas. Remember when "Harlem In Havana" came out of left field? 4th: Billy Strayhorn: Okay, again, I admit I don't know what I'm talking about but..... I also admit that I prefer the Ellington stuff to Basie's too-smooth-for-me takes. Mr. Strayhorn was a respected gay man before gay was cool in America. As a jazz neophyte, what I appreciate is that his arrangments gave the wonderful soloists in Ellington's band room to improvise (again, unlike Mr. Basie's airtight arrangements.) 5th: Brian Wilson. Amazing and subtle stuff on the Beach Boys albums. If you've heard the hits and wonder what else there is, try a track called "In My Room". Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:11:55 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: painting with words? Yo bipeds (especially those indigenous to the SF Bay Area)- So I'm laying face down on my rug, trying to decide what to wear tonight, when my eye spies in the TV guide, 'Joni Mitchell: Painting With Words' at 11:30 PM 11/04 PBS. I'll have to miss it (and Xena), unfortunately. What is this? - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:23:46 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Top Five Light Shows 1. Pink Floyd 2. Pink Floyd 3. Pink Floyd 4. Pink Floyd 5. Pink Floyd I don't know how these guys make any money on the road. Every song has a unique effect. Opulent. Lama P.S. I wouldn't want every band's shows to be like a Pink Floyd show but they are head and shoulders above everyone else at what they do. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 22:30:30 +0000 From: Nancy Subject: Re: JM Discography, F & V CD's, Intellectuality of JM's lyrics Hi out there! Questions and comments: Is this a full listing of all JM's albums/CD's? > Subject: Joni's Discography, a reminder (from Jim) What type of music do these JMDLers have on their CD's? > Subject: Fred and Victor CDs for sale > > Okay Fred and Victor! I've looked at > www.cdnow.com and www.cdbaby.com where I've had success buying CDs made by > JMDLers Kate Bennett, David Lahm, and Bryan Thomas. Prey, tell. Where can > I purchase your discs? > > Jim L'Hommedieu I can't remember any specific JM songs that have caused me to cry, but I know that certain songs have lyrics that I certainly can relate to. And maybe something I hear now doesn't affect me the way it did 20 years ago. It depends on what's going on with me at the moment. Recently I nearly cried listening to "Just Because" by Mary Chapin Carpenter - I say *nearly* because I was at work and didn't want to have a crying fit there! (Haven't heard "10,000 Miles".) - --Nancy/IA > Subject: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics > > The thread about "Songs that evoke emotions" has moved > me to finally write about this - to try to put into > words what I feel about Joni's songs. > There are certain songs that > are so beautiful and so moving that I can hardly sing > them all the way through without bursting into tears > (Dylan's Every Grain Of Sand is one of them), or that > make me cry every time I hear them (Mary > Chapin-Carpenter's 10,000 Miles), but there has never > been one Joni song that moved me like that.  ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:03:46 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorite Arrangers / Producers Jim, you really must listen to the early Basie band, before the arrangers took over. Try to find their stuff recorded between '36 and '39. A lot of the best was originally recorded on Decca. You will find classic, heroic solos by Buck Clayton, Sweets Edison, Dickie Wells Lester Young, Herschel Evans, Jack Washington and Basie. Vocals by Helen Humes and Jimmy Rushing. A privilege, in this huge universe, to be on the same hunk of rock and be able to hear this. Do you know how some people say (or used to) that they got chills up and down their spines to see the American flag pass by in a parade? That's how I feel when I listen to those old sides. David Lahm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 00:08:37 EST From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re:5songs that evoke tearful emoting 1.Hold Me now, Thompson Twins ( i am a child of the 80's and this gets me nostalgic) 2.Welcome, John Coltrane 3.Watermelon in Easter Hay, Frank Zappa (one of the few electric guitar solos that can make me cry) 4.Who wants to live forever, Queen 5.The Last Song, Elton John love blair _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 00:14:33 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics (long) Mark in Seattle wrote: > Hi Marian! Good to see you posting again! Yes, it is, Marian. I hope it means all's well with you and family and work and everything else now. > I've been thinking about this one ever since I read this post last > night. Joni affects me in a very different way, as well. > .... But mostly Joni makes me feel something entirely different from > whatever feeling or feelings bring tears to my eyes. In part I feel a > kind of respect and awe for the amazing excellence of their > composition and expression. Of course there's more than that but that > is part of it. Joni's voice is like an old friend to me. It's > comforting. I feel the same way about Billie Holiday. Billie doesn't > make me cry either. They both tap into very deep emotions but they > don't make old wounds hurt. They soothe. They heal. They inspire. A couple of years ago a coworker and I were talking about concerts. I was about to see Joni and Bob and she was excited about seeing Gloria Estefan, her favorite, and I asked her what she liked so much about Gloria's music. "She makes me dance" was her answer and she asked me why Joni was my favorite and I said, "she makes me think" (an answer that surprised even me). I sure didn't win her over to Joni with that one. In fact she got that wrinkle between the eyebrows people get when they've heard something they can't comprehend. What fun is thinking compared to dancing, after all? And, I wondered then, is that really why I've been listening to Joni for years? Now that I'm being so viscerally captured by other music lately, plus Marian's question, and I wonder again what it is about Joni's music that holds me. The only song of hers that makes me cry almost every time is Amelia, although River has gotten to me too sometimes (and I've been known to snuffle at commercials). Hearing Joni's other songs is a mostly cerebral experience, as Marian describes it. They sound good, yes, but while listening I think about how I feel, about the images she's painting with the lyrics, about how one sound of an instrument or a word plays against another, about the complexity of what she's created. Sometimes a sound, usually the way her voice catches, will emotionally grab me, but mostly her work makes me think about feelings, rather than actually having those feelings. Sounds rather boring, and yet I've been listening for decades now. Hmmm. There was an article in the NYTimes magazine months ago about grief and Mark's words "They soothe. They heal. They inspire" makes me think of it. The author, a priest, writes: "I suspect that today we are not supposed to expect that much of life. We are supposed to settle for less. What, then, do we expect of grief counselors? To help us suppress these embarrassing expectations of the heart? Is consolation after all a lowering of expectations? If anything, I am consoled by the Book of Job, which derides those who tried to explain Job's suffering to him. God does not seek to console him; He just shows up, and this is enough. It was not explanations Job wanted, but solidarity, compassion, love." Joni in her music just shows up, full of high expectations, suffering deeply from losses, expressing great joy sometimes, and offering no explanations at all, only descriptions of her experience, and that is enough. The companionship is healing, so maybe then there's no need to cry any more. But the need for healing is never ending, even in the best of times, so I keep listening, with my eyes dry but heart very much involved I now realize. What a surprise. > Enough. Sorry for the bandwidth. > > Mark in Seattle No apology needed. It was a beautiful post Mark. Debra Shea NP: PJ Harvey's latest one with a Joni-sounding title but music that sounds like Patti Smith/Lou Reed. "The Whores Hustle and the Hustlers Whore" followed by "This Mess We're In" are worth the price of the cd. Wow. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 22:46:39 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics (long) Mark wrote: >> Of course there's more than that but that > > is part of it. Joni's voice is like an old friend to me. It's > > comforting. I feel the same way about Billie Holiday. Billie doesn't > > make me cry either. They both tap into very deep emotions but they > > don't make old wounds hurt. They soothe. They heal. They inspire. And Debra wrote: > Joni in her music just shows up, full of high expectations, suffering > deeply from losses, expressing great joy sometimes, and offering no > explanations at all, only descriptions of her experience, and that is > enough. The companionship is healing, so maybe then there's no need to > cry any more. Wow, there it is. These are two of the most beautiful and brilliant insights into Joni's music that I've ever read. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 23:15:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Songs that evoke emotions Joni songs - The only two Joni songs that immediately mainlined straight into my heart and made me cry were her new versions of Case of You and Both Sides Now. For me the tears did not come so much from the songs themselves or from my own personal connection to them, but rather because I got this overwhelming feeling that Joni was singing her whole life in them. It's difficult to explain but I felt this all at once mix of joy, pride, poignancy, sentimentality, admiration and thankfulness that she and her spirit have endured and survived. Other NJC songs - I'll Follow The Sun - The Beatles Prisoner in Disguise - Linda Ronstadt Galveston - Jimmy Webb newer version Friends - Elton John Ribbon In The Sky - Stevie Wonder (oh big time) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 07:39:06 GMT From: "Cassie Fox" Subject: Joni songs that have made me cry joni song thst have made me cry A case of you River Hejira Both sides now Roses Blue Cactus Tree I Don't Know where I stand Cherokee Louise Just Like thIs Train Trouble Child _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #424 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?