From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #417 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, October 31 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 417 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Favourite guitarists ["Hell" ] Pain in the Neck [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Joni/guitar olympics [peves@marlboro.edu] Re: Joni/guitar olympics [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play [Siresorrow@aol.com] Today in Joni History - October 30 [Today in Joni History ] Neil young purchases ["Blair Fraipont" ] Back in 1974 ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Back in 1974 (MD) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Some questions about VideoTree #2 [AsharaJM@aol.com] War or SOB (Same Old Band) ["Michael Paz" ] Re: Joni/guitar gods [dsk ] Treasure Trove o' Joni [Julian51469@aol.com] Five Fave Guitarists ["Kakki" ] Re: Five Fave Guitarists [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Five Fave Guitarists [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Five Fave Guitarists [Joseph Palis ] Re: Back in 1974 (MD) ["Kakki" ] costumes for tonight [vjc] ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: So Neil can't play guitar solos, can Joni? [Steven Barton Subject: Re: Favourite guitarists Steve wrote: > My FAVE FIVE GUITAR PLAYERS OF ALL TIME ( well for today anyway) > > 1.Neil and Joni ( No kiddin, I can't separate them. Sychophant ! Do I > hear ) > 2.(This way I get to name 6 ) Stevie Ray Vaughan > 3.Rory Gallagher > 4.Peter Green ( as was) > 5.Dickie Betts and Duane ( OK, so it's my thread)Warren was cool too. Which is a cool thread, so I thought I'd play along! It's hard to separate different styles, and/or acoustic and electric, so I'm just going to lump them all in together - or at least try! Like Steve, this is the list for tonight at 11.39pm! 1. Stephen Stills - great on electric, and even better on acoustic. 2. Bonnie Raitt 3. Joni (she had to be there somewhere) 4. Carlos Santana 5. Lindsay Buckingham I could easily think of 10 more, and the list would change accordingly, but I'm trying to keep to the rules! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:41:51 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Pain in the Neck In a message dated 10/30/00 5:53:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, pholden@iprimus.ca writes: > sitting here in the midst of insomnia hoping the spasm in my neck/back will > ease. :( > > > > Hell I can relate to that. My neck pain has been going on for well over a week now. I've been taking muscle relaxants and percocet, but still the pain persists. I had surgery for this type of thing 10 years ago. Turns out it was a herniated disc in the cervical spine. My surgeon (Dr. Barry) is in Bethlehem, PA now. Now what's a damsel in distress to do? I see another neurosurgeon today at noon. It doesn't look too good guys. I can hear those words already. Rose who needs some good vibes sent her way :~( ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:57:00 -0500 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: Joni/guitar olympics Hi Joniacs. It's Peg. Wouldn't we agree that Joni's melody (lead)instrument is the keyboard - where her chord progressions are invariably laced together by all those incredible melodic phrases? Of course she plays her instruments exquisitely. Her piano playing is thoroughly provocative. And I'm sure she could play fast repeatedly stringing those sublime meanderings into bonifide "riffs" and "licks" if that were her focus. Maybe she kicks ass in her living room on her instruments. I don't know. But if she IS an olympic lead player she's not sharing it with us. Mark Knopfler, Frank Zappa, Richard Thompson, Walt Becker, Larry Carlton, Jorma Peg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:24:35 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/guitar olympics In a message dated 10/30/00 9:11:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, peves@marlboro.edu writes: << And I'm sure she could play fast repeatedly stringing those sublime meanderings into bonifide "riffs" and "licks" if that were her focus. Maybe she kicks ass in her living room on her instruments. I don't know. >> Actually, my guess is that because of her post-polio syndrome and other factors, she doesn't have the hand strength or digital dexterity to play guitar in that style, not that anyone would really want her to. She's a chord strummer. Any expectations that Joni could play like Jimi Hendrix or Jimmy Page or comparisons to pickers or virtuosos are ludicrous. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:01:42 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play In a message dated 10/29/00 9:51:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, IVPAUL42 writes: << There must be other guitar languages as well. Doc Watson, Leo Kottke, BB King. How many? >> agreed. patrick np. p.simon - quiet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 00:11:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 30 1998: The Toronto Sun reviews last night's concert, saying "The meeting of two music legends -- Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan -- on one stage comes along so rarely you'd think there'd be high expectations. But judging from the weak attendance of last night's Maple Leaf Gardens show -- only 10,000 tickets were sold leaving another 6,000 seats empty -- you gotta wonder just how high." Read it here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981030ts.cfm - - The San Francisco Examiner reviews Taming The Tiger and interviews Joni, who says "Everyone thinks they're a singer-songwriter, and they're not. In order to make money, you have to write your own stuff. But very few have the gift. In the old days, somebody wrote the music, somebody wrote the words and somebody sang it. Now everybody thinks they have all three gifts — and they don't." Read the rest here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981030sfe.cfm - - Joni performs in Kanata. Setlist and Jimdler reviews here: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/981030.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:08:31 EST From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Neil young purchases Thanks for all replying to my question about neil young. I got a general consensus, of what next i should buy. I already own about 7 Neil young albums: Harvest After the Gold Rush Comes a Time Reactor Hawks and Doves Trans (one of my favorites) Neil young Unplugged and i have 4 way street by CSN&Y and Deja Vu SO, i really wanted to see what everyone thought were the "classics" and i'll definitely be looking into the First self titled album.. because Paul IV stressed its greatness and Ry Cooder helped Produce i!! now, HOW HOT IS that??!! and Rust Never Sleeps.. i have heard allot of good stuff about that. Thanks everyone love blair _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:22:19 EST From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Back in 1974 I was looking through my record and cd collection and of all my live cds, I realized that atleast half of my live albums stem from 1974. And in particular, ALl of those live albums Are excellento!! For instance, Van Morrison's " It's Too Late to stop Now" is just phenomenal. The version of Cyprus Avenue takes my breath away. Then ofcourse, "miles of Aisles" classic Joni, in a classic time period. David Bowie's "David LIve" .. The band is so tight and raw sounding and every song is energy charged... Frank Zappa and the MOthers of Invention, "Roxy and Elsewhere" This lineup is classic and Ruth underwood on percussion makes it all the better. Bob Dylan and the band, "Before the Flood" Marvin Gaye, "Marvin Live" Trouble man is spanktastic as well as the "Fossil Melody" and i am going to throw in Lou Reed's "rock n' rol Animal" eventhough it was made in '73, it is one of THE best Live albums i have ever heard. The glam rocked version of Sweet Jane and Heroin are classics. I dont know what was in the water then, but I wish i could have been alive back then to see all these performances... you just cant get a great live show today like you used to i suppose. If anyone else has anything else to add, feel free to give your comments. love blair _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:27:06 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play > From: IVPAUL42@aol.com > Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:51:58 EST > Subject: Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play > To: Siresorrow@aol.com, rustiescot@lineone.net, joni@smoe.org > Reply-to: IVPAUL42@aol.com > i think jimmi's is the language of guitar playing shared by clapton, page, > and howe. they don't need to sing along with their guitars. >> > > There must be other guitar languages as well. Doc Watson, Leo Kottke, BB > King. How many? You must throw in Pat Metheny, especially his pre-1990 material. His guitar speaks a language, at least to me. Mike > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:52:13 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Back in 1974 (MD) First of all everything as so much newer then. Second of all everything was so much cheaper. Third of all we were so much younger then. The newer included not only the songs but the experience of going to a live show. (Newer) When The Who destroyed their instruments it was totally off the wall and ad hoc. No one had ever done that before. To witness it was amazing. After they got through with everything there was no possibility of an encore. There was nothing to use left to make music with. Today its hard to find an original act. Every things been done before several ways. So what can a new band today do that is totally original. In fact if you somehow ARE original you wont even be allowed to play because the corporates want something LIKE something else thats already making money. If it isnt original its hard to get too excited as an audience.(Cheaper)Its like Golf. In the old days when you paid $2.50 to play 18 holes if it rained you didnt care. If you quit before dark it was OK. If the group in front was slow, so what, you only paid $2.50. Now the experience has to be perfect and worth the $50 you paid. People are more demanding of the fair value for what they are being asked to fork over. Because the costs are so high the stakes are high and so original stuff isnt allowed. It must be sure to make money. As such the companies are marketing groups like the Stones who couldnt possibly have the performance energy they used to have. (Younger) We had more energy. When the hormones were all raging it was easier to get all fired up about the band, the show, and all the mages that the music conjured up. You can hear the enthusiasm i all these live albums. Today Im more analytical about the things that happen during the show itself. The equipment, the technology used, the techniques of the players. Musicians are by and large doing it for the money now. Period. Get on, get off, paycheck please. Im not saying they havent earned that right or whatever. Thats just the way it is today. unfortunately. Nothing raises the le vel of activity like hunger. Musicians arent hungry anymore. Ill add a last word. In the old days if you got all drunk at a show you were liable. Today the concert venue may be liable. So much is done to dampen the "enthusiasm" so things "dont get out of hand". In the old days that was the whole idea, to get things to a point where they were deliciously "out of hand". I hate to sound like a "things were always better" person because Im not. I could see the boaconstrictor of the music industry starting to do this years ago. We are today where i thought it looked like it was going to be. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:55:03 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Some questions about VideoTree #2 I've had several questions about this tree, and you can bet that if 1 or 2 people have asked, there are more out there wanting to know. So...here are a few answers so far. Q. Will there be a PAL version available? A. YES!! If you go to either the Branch or Leaf sign ups, you will see that you have many choices. Q. How do I know where to send the blank tapes for tree vol. 1 and 2?  After the cut-off date for Leaf sign ups, (November 18th) I will post a list of Branches and their leaves. It will be the responsibility of both the Branches *and* the leaves to get in touch with each other so you will know where to send your tapes. Q. How long will it take to receive my tapes? A. That will depend entirely on how quickly you send out your tapes, and how quickly your branch dubs them and sends them back to you. Please remember that every Branch is a VOLUNTEER, and may have many sets to dub. Please be patient! To sign up for VideoTree #2: Branches: http://www.jmdl.com/trading/branchsignup.cfm Leaves: http://www.jmdl.com/trading/leafsignup.cfm Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:40:26 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: War or SOB (Same Old Band) Victor Wrote: "Apparently, my friend's sister was the MC at a show that WAR did recently in Atlanta and they fell in love on stage. So he came with her to the housewarming party. It was definately the highlight of my weekend Victor- For your info, the band known as War lost their rights to the name to on of the more astute business guys in the band and the main songwriters in the band got left out in the cold because they were not on top of the game. BB Dickerson, Harold Brown, Lee Oskar, Howard Scott, the lions share of the original members of War are now performing under the name of SOB (Same Old Band) or Guerra (War en espanol). These guys are the writers of those legendary WAR Hits - Low Rider, Cisco Kid, World is a Ghetto, Slippin Into Darkness, Why Can't We Be Friends?...etc. The web site is at http://www.sob-online.com/ if you want more info. They have been on my TV show a couple of times now and Harold Brown is a friend and New Orleans resident. I just thought you should have more info on these guys. I have not seen the band you are referring to, but they have played New Orleans lately. Sounds like you had a gas playing with their guitar layer though. Rock on Bro! Paz NP-Rhythm of Life-Paula Cole ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:59:30 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni/guitar gods peves@marlboro.edu wrote: > Mark Knopfler, Frank Zappa, Richard Thompson, Walt Becker, Larry > Carlton, Jorma Richard Thompson -- I was wondering where people think he fits in the guitar god pantheon. To me his guitar playing is amazing, and usually sounds like at least two guitars being played, one for the steady bassline and another with intricate notes all around that and not always following the same beat. And then sometimes he also taps the wood of the guitar for a percussive sound -- how many fingers does that man have? And then hearing sounds like the bells of Big Ben -- where did they come from? Last Monday I saw THE MAN himself in a solo performance, him and his guitar non-stop for over two hours. And from five rows away in a little theater I still couldn't figure out how he did all of that at the same time, and gracefully too, and sing too! The whole show blew me away. (And then having a chat with him after the show that ended with him saying "... a convert. Bless you" and patting me on the arm. Sweet. There's nothing quite like talking to a hero from four inches away, a first for me.) Hearing him play Woodstock at Joni's tribute woke me up to appreciating the sound of a guitar, to the point of focusing mostly on that now. For years I've given almost all my attention to the lyrics of songs (without realizing it) and no one can match Joni for the precision, beauty and subtlety of her lyrics, but Richard's guitar playing, wow, that's a whole new language, so visceral I'm completely smitten. And after hearing him, all of a sudden Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana captured me too. Dave Matthews did also because his guitar is a living being, especially when he plays with Tim Reynolds. In fact, at least on Luther College, the guitars are the main voice, and some of Dave's singing sounds like he's trying to mimic it. Mmmm. Not that I'm deaf to the words now, and certainly not to the singing, but hearing guitars at the forefront is a wonderful new way of hearing music. (Apparently I'm giving my analyzing brain a rest these days, maybe, finally.) Debra Shea NP: Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds, Live at Luther College, Lover Lay Down, hot and sweet at the same time, wonderful..... I could listen all day and hear new sounds each time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:59:17 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Treasure Trove o' Joni Hello dear friends, It's been while since I've had time to read the "list" but I litterally have my hands full with a beautiful baby daughter by the name of Lucy Iris (she was born October 1st, 12 minutes after midnight, between sides one and two of CSNY's "So Far" album...you know the one with the Joni drawing on the cover). Well the other day the three of us were out for a stroll in a glorious DC fall day when we happened upon a yard sale on 16th street... After a two minutes of browsing I spied Joni's face on the cover of a thin book peering up from the grass and colored leaves. Before I even looked inside it I bought it for .50 cents...The book is by Leonore Fleischer and is simply called "Joni Mitchell Her Life Her Loves Her Music and came out in 1976. The book is filled with tons of pictures and and a wonderfully naive, dated and inspiring write-up. I then looked a little further into a couple milk crates and hit the jack-pot: The "Blue", "For the Roses", "Joni Mitchell Songbook 1966-1970", "The Dulcimer Book" by Jean Ritchie, "How to Make and Play the Dulcimore" by Chet Hines, and (one of the Holy Grails of Joni Mitchelldom...) "The Music of Joni Mitchell" with a list of known tunes and a massive list of unknown, unrecorded tunes (it actually starts off with her poem from highschool "The Fishbowl"). I am still reeling from this find. The real kicker came when the owner of these books said that I could have them all for $10!!! I said that that was an increadible deal and that I could give her a few of my tapes as added payment. Needless to say, I'm still walking on air about my finds...now I just need to find the time to actually use these books....soon, soon. If anyone would like to get copies of the sheet music for the unreleased tunes please e-mail me privately. My "Unreleased Tape" is on hold seeing as I lent out my "Club 57" tape and the guy who was going to transfer it to a CDR went on an emergency mission to Texas...who knows when he'll be back....soon, soon. Untill later, Take care, Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:54:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Five Fave Guitarists It's really impossible to pick just five and I agree with everyone's choices so far. I decided to pick five faves who I've actually seen perform live in ADDITION to Joni ;-) In no particular order: Larry Carlton Jorma Kaukonen John Mayall Jeff Pevar Richie Havens Kakki NP: Byrds - Tomorrow Is A Long Ways Away ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:26:35 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Five Fave Guitarists In no particular order... Trey Anastasio -- he can play the most amazing solos without looking at where his fingers are at. Very few guitar players can do that! Tim Reynolds -- without a doubt, the master of the acoustic guitar, although IMO not that great an electric player Kenny Withrow -- undoubtedly the most underrated guitarist out there. Lately I've been trying to figure out his stuff, but it's hard Susan Tedeski -- I heard her perform yesterday afternoon on E-Town. Very, very good Nick Drake -- a genius in his own style, he created some beautiful chords that blended perfectly with his words NP-Grateful Dead, 2/9/73 - Here Comes Sunshine (1st) - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:37:04 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Five Fave Guitarists Here's mine: Jimi Hendrix Frank Marino Stanley Jordan Tuck Andress Jerry Garcia - -Julius who gives an honorable mention to Fred Frith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:34:45 +0800 (PHT) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Five Fave Guitarists not really a guitar person, but those who knocked me silly with their virtuosity includes: 1) alex de grassi 2) michael hedges 3) william ackerman 4) sara hickman 5) eric tingstad joseph (a big windham hill fan since the early 80s, and an even bigger fan of fred simon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:35:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Back in 1974 (MD) > First of all everything as so much newer then. Second of all everything was > so much cheaper. Third of all we were so much younger then. Marcel, I have to say how much I always appreciate your historical perspective. As much as I enjoyed those early days, I was, as Steve Dulson said the other day "a mere child" who of course, just gladly lapped it all up at the time, but was too young in some respects to have the perspective of you and others who were experiencing it from a longer view. I did have a slight panic attack the other day when Lori wrote about the 70s being the decade when it all really came to fruition. Yes, the 70s were happening big time, but to me, the genesis of it all started from about '63 on and was so much more exciting than what followed in the 70s. Lori, I hope your boss will consider the 60s more - I felt a little like a victim of "revisionist history" when I read about his book! I know that we all hold the times when we become young adults as the "most important" to some extent but lordy, it is historical fact that so much was exploding in the decade that preceded the 70s - the Kennedy years idealism (1960-1963) really helped kick it all off, the Free Speech movement (1963), Civil Rights demonstrations (early 60s) and the Civil Rights Act (1964), the first protests against the Vietnam war (really got going strong by 1966 by my recall), "Flower Power" - Summer of Love '67, Woodstock '69 to name a few. The revolution in music was happening and there are too many artists to cite in support of this except to say there were more innovators emerging in the musical realm in the 60s than in the 70s. Lori, I think you cited to "Sugar, Sugar" being the no. 1 hit of 1969. Well, not in my neck of the woods! Yeah, "Sugar" was popular among some people but it was right beside the Doors, Cream, Jimi Hendrix, Joni, Love, Jefferson Airplane and scores of other groups that were certainly not "Bubble Gum"! ;-) I tend to think that part of the beauty of that time was that a song like "Sugar, Sugar" could be played and enjoyed and acheive chart status alongside the "heavyweights" of the time. Radio was wide open, truly liberal - and everyone got a shot for awhile there. Lori - please don't think I'm singling you out - the same day you wrote I was comparing notes with a friend at work about seeing "Almost Famous". Because of his age, the apex for him was the 70s, but I gasped when he said that all the great and improtant music happened then! For what it's worth, I have a very close friend whose apex was the 80s and he is convinced that all the great and important music happened *then*. Interestingly, my 80s oriented friend never knew much about Joni. I've "tutored" him a bot and he has been extremely impressed with her and guess which album he thinks is her greatest? DOG EAT DOG. Ha! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:06:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: costumes for tonight [vjc] have a wonderful halloween everybody!!!! don't eat too much candy, though. what are your costumes for this evening? i'm in two minds between joni in her miyasaki, mishosokki, shiitake [how do you spell that name, for god's sake!] outfit and queen elizabeth II in her phosphorescent green halston suit and her teapot cozy of a hat. i can't decide which one is more horrifying... suggestions welcome. wally K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:48:56 -0800 From: Steven Barton Subject: Re: So Neil can't play guitar solos, can Joni? > Clapton, Page and Howe are great guitar players but not one of the three play in a way that moves me like Neil does. My feelings exactly! Neil can really make the guitar sing and evoke a variety of emotions. When rehearsing for the Ragged Glory tour, the Gulf War broke out. As a result the set list was changed and the music took on a whole different feeling! Blowing in the Wind had a long sequence filled with the sound of sirens, machine guns and bombs exploding...all from a couple of guitars! And Cortez the Killer almost makes you weep, it is filled with such emotion and color. Check out the WELD album and hear a much more developed artist than the one who played the "one note solos" back in the early days. Steve ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #417 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?