From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #416 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, October 30 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 416 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- asstrology [dogbyte@aloha.net (french)] hobbits and mark in seattle [dogbyte@aloha.net (french)] Re: Genuine junk male - nothing in particular ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Joni tidbits [MGVal@aol.com] Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play ["Steve" ] Joni on Elm Street mag cover ["karla subero" ] Joni Mitchell Companion, revised [Stacey4882@aol.com] Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni Mitchell Companion, revised [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Halloween - SJC [Heather ] RE: Joni Mitchell Companion, revised ["Wally Kairuz" power-driven and ruthless" goats wally kai my friend, i know that our b'days are much close and i must admit that in certain cases as life goes on we may be power driven and ruthless goats but i still have a soft spot in my heart for all the other unfortunate ones that could'nt quite make it to this level in their life..... so can we be defined as 'compassionate' power driven ruthless goats?????....define 'ruthless'...dean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:25:31 -1000 (HST) From: dogbyte@aloha.net (french) Subject: hobbits and mark in seattle hey mark , i found my box of put-away book stuff, after your post referring to JRR's books i was kind of obsessed, thank you for the inspiration, it begins; three rings for the elven-kings under the sky, seven for the dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, nine for mortal men doomed to die, one for the dark lord on his dark throne in the land of mordor where the shadows lie. one ring to rule them all, one ring to find them, one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them in the land of mordor where the shadows lie.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:15:55 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Genuine junk male - nothing in particular - ----- Original Message ----- >From: william: Any Joni relevant to Hello'ween? In 1976/7 (?) Joni was invited to a Hallowe'en party and she couldn't find anything to dress up as. On the street she passed a black guy walking a kind of diddybop step and he said something to her (like, cool sister, cool, or somthing like that) so she thought, 'That was cool!' and popped into a theatrical dress shop bought a wig and clothes and went blackface to the party. No-one recognised her The character came up again as Art Nouveau on the front cover of DJRD and in the short film she did. I think it's in one of the articles on the jmdl site. Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:05:36 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: asstrology In a message dated 10/29/00 4:51:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, dogbyte@aloha.net writes: << define 'ruthless'...dean >> Definition of "ruthless" == without compassion ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:23:21 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Genuine junk male - nothing in particular and here's the original quote from Q magazine: Joni Mitchell: So there came Halloween, and I was walking down Hollywood Boulevard. There were a lot of people out on the street wearing wigs and paint and masks, and I was thinking, What can I do for a costume? Then a black guy walked by me with a New York diddybop kind of step, and he said in the most wonderful way, (croons) Lookin' good, sister, lookin' gooood. His spirit was infectious and I thought, I'll go as him. I bought the make-up, the wig, the sideburns, I went into a sleazy menswear and bought a sleazy hat and a sleazy suit and that night I went to a Halloween party and nobody knew it was me, nobody. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:16:36 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #569 I wish I could sign up for the digest that has just Joni content .. but I think I made some mistakes when subscribing. I started over, but still am getting EVERYTHING. I do love the information on Joni and the very interesting coversation .. but never read the NJC. Any suggestion about what I've done wrong? Tim Doherty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:10:00 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: Re: joni's BD card The card looks lovely,i'm sure she'll love it. Well done to all who contributed. Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:06:57 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Joni tidbits Well gang, I finally went to see "Almost Famous" and the brief Joni mentions in the movie sent me jumping up and down in my seat like a moron. Seeing the Cameron Crowe character thumb through his sister's albums and stopping at Blue brought back my memories of those years. I thought that the movie was well made and for me, really summed up what is missing from popular music today: the passion and love for music as a lifestyle, as a message and as a meaningful way of life. Joni also had a brief mention in the October 9th issue of US where Cameron Crowe interviews Kate Hudson and comments that playing Joni's "River" brought out some of her best performances in the film. Lastly, I've been on vacation all this past week and like a moron, did not unsub from the list. Thus, I am sitting here looking at 4,375 email messages in my inbasket. Of course, of them, 219 are AOL's own peculiar brand of spam: (xxxxxxxhottaylorham.com click here), but the rest is list stuff. Since I have to let my kids out of the holding pen soon, I'm about to delete a week's worth of postings. If anyone has sent me something off list, please resend it! If you haven't, well, now's the time to send me something! MG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:14:34 -0000 From: "Steve" Subject: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play Hi Patrick, thanks for keepin this thread going, it is of course all about opinion and I respect your's. patrick wrote <<<<.....how many note's per minute can you play on a guitar with a bow? to me, the issue of virtuoso was more...who did what first? not many people will say much more has ever been done with an electric guitar than what jimmi hendrix did. he was the qunatum change. after that...it was shades of change.>> I'm sure a lot of people will argue that Joni and Neil have put in quite a few virtuoso performances ( I've been listening to one of Joni's at Carnegie Hall 72 ) and I've witnessed quite a few of Neil's.But then again I'll admit to a small bias on both artists. Whilst I'm the first to admit that Jimi was a unique talent, he did in fact "copy" lots of licks from his fellow black bluesmen pre-making it. He did take the raw blues and present it in a way that took the "pop" world by storm. Remember that, no doubt influenced by Jimi's colour, he was unable to get a solo record deal in the States. It was only when Jimi came to England and his amazing talent was packaged by his manager Chas Chandler that Jimi got his deserved success and recognition. I'll admit he was a quantum change to the way electric players practised their craft. <<>> Again I disagree. Just like Jimi, Joni took her own early folk style, and married that with the modal tunings that some of her contemporaries in the folk clubs in Toronto ( among others) were experimenting with. To my ears and many of the female songwriters who came after her Joni has created and mastered that style of guitar playing, an real innovator to my mind. Now Neil, he's admitted to being influenced by Hank Marvin(of the Shadows), Bert Jansch (the Scottish innovative acoustic player) and Jimi himself. Neil's taken his limited fretzipping skills and married them to create a totally unique sound, especially the one note solos. In my Humble opinion, that makes Jimi unique, it also makes Joni unique and it makes Neil unique in their own creation of completely different *sounds*. Many other guitar players that you mentioned Clapton/Page/Howe are fine players IMHO but aren't unique enough for my ears. Now as for my own style it's pretty unique too, nobody could possibly play as badly as me ! In music everyone's an expert, that's part of the fun of it, and there are as many opinions as there are combinations of sounds. What do you mean ? Of course Status Quo have a unique and innovative sound ..... ...........................Steve, the impossible guitar player ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:03:48 MST From: "karla subero" Subject: Joni on Elm Street mag cover To Canadian folks, Joni's on the cover of this month's Elm Street magazine. The article, however, is the same on you can find written by her pal Anne Bayin at jonimitchell.com But if you like seeing Joni on covers of magazines, go for this one if you like. - -kol _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:57:39 EST From: Stacey4882@aol.com Subject: Joni Mitchell Companion, revised Hey everyone, Now that Music Sales, Corp has bought out my publisher, Schirmer Books, it looks like The Joni Mitchell Companion may well go into a second printing! Which means...they'll be able to correct the errors! So, here's calling all eagle-eyed JMDLers to write in with your favorite (or least favorite) typos and gaffes. Here are the big ones I already know of: Page 169—delete photo (it’s of Rikki Lee Jones and Bonnie Raitt, not Joni and Bonnie!) Page 135—pic is of Tim Hardin, Stephen Stills, and Joni, not Hoyt Axton, Stephen, & Joni (thanks, Leslie!) Part Six, first article—all the little eighth notes should be flat signs (sigh). Part Five, "Birthday Suite" must be credited to Hilton Als (that one was my error). My name must be correctly spelled on the cover (Stacey, not Stacy). Delete all "SFL"s (my initials) after italicized intros to articles (not needed). Also: There is a chance that I'll get to do an EXPANDED edition of the book to make it more up to date and maybe better in other ways, too. So, any thoughts/suggestions toward that end will also be much appreciated. I'll keep you posted on developments. Steve Wilson, the marketing fellow at Music Sales, seems highly competent and very motivated to keep Joni on the shelves. Hurray! Perhaps finally this book will have decent marketing!! Thanks in advance for your help, Stacey Luftig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:39:38 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play In a message dated 10/29/00 5:45:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, rustiescot@LineOne.net writes: << In my Humble opinion, that makes Jimi unique, it also makes Joni unique and it makes Neil unique in their own creation of completely different *sounds*. Many other guitar players that you mentioned Clapton/Page/Howe are fine players IMHO but aren't unique enough for my ears. >> i think the way i wrote my text was confusing. i was saying that neil and joni together make up one language of guitar playing...that of chord based, open or closed, alternate tuned or standard, mixed with vocal harmonys and lyrics and in neil's case, a harmonica while in joni's case a voice that works like a harmonica. i think jimmi's is the language of guitar playing shared by clapton, page, and howe. they don't need to sing along with their guitars. so i was separating the lead players from the chord players. and to compare them as guitar players i still think doesn't work because they are speaking different languages on the instruments. to this day, one of the biggest thrills i have had was to watch steve howe play "the clap" live. neither joni or neil could ever do that. i'm convinced of that. joni doesn't know the fret board well enough and neil is a flat picker. some might want to argue that, some might not like me saying that, but i believe based on what i have heard them do. and remember, i identified myself as a big neil fan earlier and as one who learned many of his songs. so i'm not down on neil young. but i do think eric and jimmy and jimmi could all do (have done) that. they might change it some, but they could all play the clap, which is pretty unique of a song in my book. that's why i can't compare the two groupings. at the same time, i can't say which one is better. they are just so different, though quite ingenuous in their own rites. you know if you ever look closely at eric clapton's lyrics, you will see he really struggles there. they are very plain and masculine. almost rough to a degree. remind me of huck finn trying to thread a needle. yet his later stuff really communicates through the words. and his guitar playing has simplified significantly. but he can't paint with words the way joni or neil can. and he never will. where as joni and neil have no problem there at all. i think the reason why neil plays such simple leads is because he can't do anything else. but that does'nt degrade him in my understanding. he has so many other gifts that are unique to him. but he's not a lead player and nor is joni. and to say he plays one note so piercingly beautiful and those other guys are just old speed demons who just repeat the same old phrases....that just not objective enough for me. i'd rather say, because neil feels so deeply, he can make one note work. but if he could play better, he'd make more notes work. and at the same time, eric can say thing with simple words. but if had a better grasp of language, he could write better lyrics. they both have different strengths. why can't we just say that? patrick np. dire straits- private investigations ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:51:58 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Re.Neil & Joni's Guitar play In a message dated 10/29/00 9:45:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, Siresorrow@aol.com writes: << i was saying that neil and joni together make up one language of guitar playing...that of chord based, open or closed, alternate tuned or standard, mixed with vocal harmonys and lyrics and in neil's case, a harmonica while in joni's case a voice that works like a harmonica. i think jimmi's is the language of guitar playing shared by clapton, page, and howe. they don't need to sing along with their guitars. >> There must be other guitar languages as well. Doc Watson, Leo Kottke, BB King. How many? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:05:04 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Companion, revised << Also: There is a chance that I'll get to do an EXPANDED edition of the book to make it more up to date and maybe better in other ways, too. So, any thoughts/suggestions toward that end will also be much appreciated. >> Well hey there, Stacey! Congratulations on the second printing and expanded edition! You could add a chapter about all the Joni covers out there! ;~) Looks like I'll have to be buying a second copy... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:21:48 -0500 From: Heather Subject: Halloween - SJC I should be studying .... I have a little outfit for my 16 month old granddaughter. I got her a little blond wig and one of those small ukuleles (to use as a guitar). Care to guess who she is for Halloween? ;-) My daughter thinks I'm nuts. Just wanted to share ...... Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 00:22:32 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell Companion, revised congratulations, stacey! your book is very useful. i second bob's motion. and i think that there should be a little more information about the joni mitchell page and the discussion list. after all, they are true indicators of joni's influence and dimension. thanks! wallyK << Also: There is a chance that I'll get to do an EXPANDED edition of the book to make it more up to date and maybe better in other ways, too. So, any thoughts/suggestions toward that end will also be much appreciated. >> Well hey there, Stacey! Congratulations on the second printing and expanded edition! You could add a chapter about all the Joni covers out there! ;~) Looks like I'll have to be buying a second copy... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:25:34 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Companion, revised I am happy for you, Stacey; not everyone gets to have a second go-round and correct publishers' screw-ups. It means your book is succeeding (or as the record company dude said to Joni, "pushing digits.") David Lahm ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #416 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?