From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #407 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, October 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 407 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: BOY GEORGE on Bowie, Joni, Vincent [FredNow@aol.com] Kenny and Wallyb-and some card stuff [JoniMessages@aol.com] Re: Joni Covers and Birthday [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: BOY GEORGE on Bowie, Joni, Vincent ["Jamie Zubairi" ] voice ranges - if Joni gave up smoking ["william" ] Re: was New York ...just the way... now:Chase off those stay-at-home blues [RoseMJoy@ao] RE: voice ranges - if Joni gave up smoking ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:06:59 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: BOY GEORGE on Bowie, Joni, Vincent "Diane Evans" wrote: >>A song IS meant to be repeated again and again but it doesn't=20 mean >>an artist is always destined to do only that one tune (even in >>endless=20 variations), don't you think? Part of the joy of a concert >>is going with=20 the mood of the performer and that way you're treated >>to what the performer=20 is in best form/frame of mind to give you. If >>THE devine Ms. M was excited=20 about her new material I can see how >>she would be frustrated about being=20 asked to do the same old thing. Like I said in my post, "while I completely support any artist's prerogative= =20 to sing or not sing something, her analogy is false." And that=92s really th= e=20 crux -- as a performing composer myself I absolutely understand Joni's desir= e=20 to perform new stuff, leave the old behind, and it can be frustrating to=20 fight the audience's inertia in this regard. It's just that her illustration= =20 is false and misleading. On the other, although I can relate to this frustration, I also feel obligat= ed , in a grateful way, to "dance with those that brung me." If so many people=20 resonate with a particular song, why wouldn't I want to satisfy their jones=20 as long as it doesn't preclude playing new material? One hit among a=20 half-dozen new songs is really not too much to ask from those who enable my=20 forum, much less put bread on my table. And I'm gonna play the shit out of=20 that hit, and make it new again. (By the way, thanks Hell and WallyK.) - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:04:09 EDT From: JoniMessages@aol.com Subject: Kenny and Wallyb-and some card stuff Wally, and now Kenny. I'm very sad. I didn't correspond with Kenny much, but I knew he was around -- when Wally was dealing with the nightmares of chemo, Kenny sent many encouraging email messages that cheered Wally considerably, as well as kind, empathic messages of support to both of us as the end drew near. I'm sure they're enjoying each other's company now. I think back every day to Wally's death in February, and very often remember the great outpouring of sorrow and support from many of you just before BSN was released; I think of Kenny now as I work with everyone on Joni's birthday card. This is different, though. Although I'm sure Kenny knew he was loved, we all knew Wally would be leaving us, and were able to say our goodbyes. This happened so fast... I think we're very fortunate to have something in common that brings us together with such great joy, and glad that as with Wally, we'll be able to create fond memories of Kenny in the context of the many wonderful things we share. My thoughts are with Steve, and with everyone who is still in shock from this sudden loss of a goodhearted friend. Big sigh. Then a quiet moment. So I do now as I did then, working to hopefully bring a little smile to Joni and her Internet friends in my suddenly insignificant way, under such sorrowful circumstances... the project right now, of course, is the birthday card, and I hope you're all enjoying the pics I've put up. I wanted to reply to questions I've received that run along the lines of these two: >>Do we have to pick only one? Can't we pick them all, with a multi-page format? I hate to choose amongst friends and amongst all worthy concepts. >>Is someone who's good at computer collages able to meld all the entries, somehow? I loved the earlier pallette-shaped birthday card. The images (all potent icons for Joni; an "American Spirit" pack, Billie Holiday, and many others I can't recall - I couldn't find the card on either JMDL website or JoniMitchell.com) were assembled and their edges blurred -very nice - We're going to have to stick with one image this time -- the logistics of collecting all the images and reproducing them in a high-resolution collage format for print could get unruly in the extreme, especially given the time constraints. I designed the pallette card, and it was a BIG project. It took time to collect all those pieces of artwork, scan/resize them, and then do the design and production so everything would work together as one effective image at print resolution (it takes a lot more dots per inch to print a good picture than it does to display it on a computer screen, as I'm sure many of you know). Sorry for the techie blubbering, but while I'm at it, this might be a good time to remind everyone that I need to have the image I end up using sent to me at least at 150 dpi. It's the thought that counts, of course, but I'd still like it to look good! Don't forget to drop me a quick line at JoniMessages@aol.com by Sunday to let me know which image you like. And thanks to all of you for being who you are. jj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:22:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Covers and Birthday << Thanks for acknowledging me Bob, and I must say, it was nice to be able to contribute to the project! >> And I'll add that Helen even scored bonus points for providing 3 pages of liner notes. Here's what she said about "When The Cat's Away/Big Yellow Taxi": "The next is by a group When The Cat's Away - a group of 5 NZ women (Dianne Swann, Kim Willoughby, Margaret Ulrich, Debbie Harwood and Annie Crummer) who started a small "covers" band to tour small bars & clubs. They were all involved in other bands and projects and started this as a kind of "fun" thing to do over the summer. But they were so popular, the whole thing snowballed, and they ended up with a country-wide tour. The song was the B-side on the single "Free Ride" (a No. 1 hit)." A pretty cool story that I thought deserves a larger audience. Thanks again Hell! << I'm picturing a hand-made box containing all the CD's, with an appropriate image etched on the top. I'm even volunteering to make it, assuming someone (ie. Bob) provides me with the required dimensions, or at least the total number of CDs!? >> Better start building the Ark now, Hell...the treasure chest is up to 15 CD's and climbing! :~) Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "Jet Set" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:54:38 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: BOY GEORGE on Bowie, Joni, Vincent While I agree with this - and it is well put, the thing that we forget is the Joni was actually high-lighting the differences between the two worlds. To quote: 'That's one thing that's like, a, been a MAJOR DIFFERENCE to me between a performing arts to me and being a painter, y'know... like a painter does a painting and he does a painting, that's it. He's had the joy of creating it, and he hangs it on some wall and somebody buys it, somebody buys it again, or maybe nobody buys it and it sits up in some loft until he dies. But he's never, they, nobody ever says to him, nobody ever said to Van Gogh, 'Paint a Starry Night, again, man. hehehe. He painted it, that was it!' She was talking about the differences between the two, not the similarities. And wasn't using one as an analogy for the other, just using them to point up the difference of the other. I have always found that line very funny and I think she says it with humour, and not as some reviewers have claimed that she was complaining at her audience. I have, however, heard Joni complaining that some of her fans want her to just 'bleed for them forever' (Late Show with Tracey McCleod, BBC 2 1997- it's also on a video tree) and this is the only time that the singer/painter analogy can be used correctly. (Is analogy the right word here? I'm not sure) She doesn't revisit the old heartaches or even guitar styles in her newer work but she will certainly sing (some of) them in her concerts. Even if none of it is earlier than 1974! In the new album, hopefully she will include some more from the other albums (apart from ACOY and BSN that is). Hopefully Ludwig's Tune will make it onto the final cut of the new album. As to Joni singing the older songs, yes she is a great performer of songs, she puts herself straight into the middle of the emotional landscape of the songs and pins you to the wall with her honesty and she probably couldn't sing the same song the same way, two nights running. I have, however heard some people (even on the list! shock, horror!) say that they don't like the way she rearranges the old songs into a band or with a slightly different melodic line. She is an observer of the times, if the times means the heartache that she is going through, or a newspaper article or a friend's personal tragedy, that is what she'll write about. She's an artist. She's not going to paint a starry night again. I hope the next album will be a revisitation of the older work. It will be a very different picture from when she first unveiled them 10, 20, 30 years ago, but knowing her, it will be just as clear. Jamie Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >Somebody told me that at >one of her gigs, someone was shouting out for her to do "Big Yellow Taxi," and >she was like, "My God! I bet Van Gogh never got people shouting out, 'Paint >another "Starry Night"!' Music is one of the few art forms where people >are constantly demanding that you repeat yourself. My pet peeve alarm just went off ... I've been up on this soapbox before, but it's been awhile and this gives me the perfect excuse to climb on again. Now, I dearly love Joni Mitchell in so many ways, but she (and Boy George) are dead wrong about this. Singing is a performing art, painting isn't. No one was asking her to *write* (create, paint) another "Starry Night," only to *sing* (perform) it again. Songs, by their very nature and function, are meant to be sung again., and while I completely support any artist's prerogative to sing or not sing something, her analogy is false. And now, of course, even Joni herself is revisiting older material. To sing a song again is *not* repeating oneself, because no one -- especially someone of Joni's caliber, with her improvisatory, jazz musician's sensibility -- could ever sing a song the same way twice. In fact, that's the exact point of singing the same songs over and over again ... change is a constant, the world turns every day. Even if the day-to-day differences are subtle details, it's never the same; a great artist can potentially breathe new life born of cumulative years of living into it. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:16:55 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Songs joni should cover RE: I think joni should cover Frank Zappa's "Dont eat the yellow snow".. it would be great.. or she could create lyrics to "Eat a Question" and that would be just beautiful. I really love how everyone on here is very supportive and loving. I mean, the way that all of you care about Kenny and sharing emails and memories, I love that caring aspect in people. I am glad i am on this list. blair _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:45:05 +0700 From: "william" Subject: voice ranges - if Joni gave up smoking I read with great interest Wally K's encyclopaedic explanation of the voice ranges. What a post! Still confused about how someone i.e. Joni is still a soprano. . Yeh but people end up with different hair colour from when they were born. (He said wisely with a giggle). If Joni quit smoking, would her voice return to the halcyon days of The Arrangement? Out of curiosity I'd be interested to know the range of well known one-off voices in the busipopness. Neil Young, Frank Sinatra, Robert Plant, Dr John, Prince, Billy Holiday. As a "singer" myself not knowing if I'm a blonde, brunette, blackhead or a strawberry tart, can you "pitch" these guys so I can compare? Thanks Wally. Willy the Shake I'll have a stab at it Neil Y - falsetto Frank S - tenor Robert P - alto Dr J - bass Prince - everything Billie H - mezzo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:42:19 -0700 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Kenny Grant-Thoughts Unlike many of you who have written personal remembrances, I didn't know Kenny at all except a brief sentence here and there when he graciously made me a tape tree or two. There are some things I've noticed while reading over the posts lately: Kenny was highly admired by everyone for his great spirit, generosity, and kind heart. Steve shared that he had been listening to Joni intensely for the past week or two -- a wonderful way to spend time and I'm glad to hear of the joy he got out of it. Kenny was thrilled to be part of the Joni Fests he attended. Of course the fact that he's gone is so sad and my heart is with his family and loved ones, but all in all, it sounds like a pretty good way to leave this life, with great joy in your soul and the admiration of many. I hope someone will keep these many loving posts and somehow get them to Steve or Kenny's family so they may see how much he touched people, many of whom he never met. I hope Kenny and Wally are enjoying a spectacular Joni Fest of their own. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:17:11 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: was New York ...just the way... now:Chase off those stay-at-home blues How 'bout it New Yorker's Who's in tomorrow for the Met Museum of Art Julius was also thinking lunch or something... so far: Patrick Nikki me Julius May Jeff, Alison? Rose in NJ Night In The City by Joni Mitchell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- Light up light up Light up your lazy blue eyes Moon's up nights up Taking the town by surprise Night time night time Day left an hour ago City light time Must you get ready so slow There are places to come from and places to go Night in the city looks pretty to me Night in the city looks fine Music comes spilling out into the street Colors go flashing in time Take off take off Take off your stay-at-home shoes Break off shake off Chase off those stay-at-home blues Stairway stairway Down to the crowds in the street They go their way Looking for faces to greet But we run on laughing with no one to meet Night in the city looks pretty to me Night in the city looks fine Music comes spilling out into the street Colors go waltzing in time ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:13:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: voice ranges - if Joni gave up smoking willy the shake wrote: >>>>>still confused about how someone i.e. Joni is still a soprano. . Yeh but people end up with different hair colour from when they were born. >>>>>>>. and then deb added: >>>>>But if age changes our anatomies (it did mine!) then can't the "anatomical fact" of one's voice change also? I used to be a brunette, but now I'm a grayette. Both are anatomical facts!>>>>>> so i panicked and thought i had acquired joni's knack for false analogies. but no, mes petits! that's exactly my point! you begin your life a blonde and you don't become a brunette as you grow old [without chemical enhancement, that is]. you just become a blonde in decline [oh god, how deliciously insulting!]. your hair simply loses its natural color, you don't change ''hair categories''. even grey-haired, a former brunette retains certain characteristics [hair thickness, complexion, etc..] that would identify her as a brunette who has turned grey. our anatomies change for the worse, i'm afraid. the analogy still holds. as to whether joni might improve her voice by giving up smoking ... well, whatever happened, she would be a very cranky joni. anyway, in my arrogant opinion, i don't think so. high notes are very much a matter of muscular control, especially one's diaphragm [the muscle, not the rubber thingy]. one case in point [and will he ever stop showing off his opera queen's background?] is that of australian soprano marjorie lawrence. she was struck by polio when she was singing in mexico in 1941. although she could never walk again, she started rehearsing as soon as she was able to sit at a piano. according to her autobiography [and there's the hollywood movie too!!!], she tried to sing annie laurie , you know, the folk song, the fifth note of which is pretty high, and she couldn't do it. she tried time after time, and whenever she reached that fifth syllable her voice broke into a hideous croak. her husband and her housekeeper were there and they were terrified. they were thinking that she'd lost it, you know, the woman that had sung brunnhilde and isolde at the MET was now a total vocal wreck. but lawrence was elated: she still had a voice!!! when they objected that, yes, she had a voice, but how about being unable to sing, wouldn't that be an obstacle of sorts? she replied, ''oh that's just muscles, you know? a little practice and all the highs will be back.'' and indeed they were! on december 27 [my birthday, incidentally] 1942 [18 years before i was born] she was back at the MET!!! i think that joni might extend her range [not that she needs to] and ''clean'' her timbre [should she want to do so] if she started working on her breathing and her muscular control. this doesn't mean that i think she should do any of this or that she should kill herself or that she should do felt-tip pen drawings again or that i don't love joni mitchell, for god's sake. but you asked. wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:59:47 +0100 From: Nancy Subject: Re: Kenny & Joni's Soprano? & Starry Night I am fairly new to this list and didn't know Kenny…he sounds like a neat person, very friendly and giving. I appreciate the reading his biography and the stories of your memories. Am sending hugs to all of you who are saddened by the loss of your friend. ******************** I want to thank Cassy and WallyK for sharing their knowledge of music--I'm in choir at my church, and found all of this very interesting. We are preparing to sing parts of Handel's Messiah, and I think a lot of these songs include coloratura. I love singing them; they are a challenge, but fun, too. >Here are the definitions of the soprano and alto in case you would like more >specific details. > > Soprano: the highest human vocal register, extending approximately from > middle C to the second A above. A voice with a range approximately from the >A below middle C to the second F or G above is termed a mezzo-soprano. ********************** When Joni said this, she wasn't really trying to be totally serious, I think she was goofing around; being kind of silly. >I bet Van Gogh never got people shouting out, 'Paint another "Starry Night"!' > My pet peeve alarm just went off ... - ---Nancy/IA ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #407 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?