From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #397 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, October 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 397 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Another Joni cover...maybe ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: The Top Prize [Siresorrow@aol.com] michaels bday, dylan, joni and running [pat holden ] Does anyone know? ["Signe Wiig Salvesen" ] Re: Another Joni cover...maybe [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] On Court and Spark and the Sunshine Coast [Jeff Clark ] Sweet Joni ["Michael Paz" ] Re: [Re: I went looking for a cause...] [Lori Reason ] Re: [Re: I went looking for a cause...] ["Kakki" ] Re: Sweet Joni [Phyliss Ward ] NO Joni in Music Issue 400! [dsk ] Mojo Check ["susan" ] Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch [Michael Paz ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #396 [Nancy ] Re: apples, cheeses, and liebfraumilch [Nancy ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #544 ["Kate Bennett" ] Bob & Joni - the paint & the paintbrush ["william" Subject: RE: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch what on earth can rhyme with Liebfraumilch in english??????? wallyk, seriously >>>> Maybe she should have tried to rhyme something with liebfraumilch instead of Rhine wine. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:03:16 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch In a message dated 10/13/00 3:15:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << what on earth can rhyme with Liebfraumilch in english??????? wallyk, seriously >> milk, bilk, ilk, SILK, ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:20:16 -0700 From: Robert Holliston Subject: Re: The Top Prize When I read this, I thought to myself, Dylan's canvas is bigger, Joni's strokes are subtler and more precise. (I just came home from a terrific opening night party, so that statement may be meaningless even to me by tomorrow morning ;-) Dylan has certainly been influential, but a large number of significant writers have listed Joni as an influence too. As for the student surpassing the teacher, a prime example is: Schubert studied with Salieri. I wouldn't want to qualify anyone as "the best," it's just that, for whatever reason(s), I love more of Joni's songs than Dylan's, and love them more deeply. Plus I love her singing - especially of her own material (he says emphatically). Others? I've been immersing myself lately in Tom Waits, who continues to astound and challenge. When I listen to Blue Valentine (the song), I think I would pay money to hear him sing A Case of You or Come in From the Cold. That raspy voice is nothing but emotion. Just some random thoughts.... Roberto Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Clearly the race for 'best singer-songwriter' is between Bobby and Joni. > Did Dylan ever write ANYTHING as good as the "Last Time I Saw Richard"? I > don't think so. I know Bob was more Influential by far. I also think that > sometimes the Student (Joni) surpasses the skills of the Teacher (Bob > Dylan). For me, Joni is THE best. Others? > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:38:27 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Another Joni cover...maybe Mark D. wrote: "Well this just may be a cover that I would actually enjoy. According to the Pharmer's Almanac Vol. 3 (which is a book full of various Phish factoids, setlists, tour stories, covers, etc) Phish covered Help Me on April 10, 1993 along with Sugar Blue (I don't know who he/she is) who sang and played the harmonica. "Now I was told a couple of years ago that Help Me is also the title of an old blues song, but until I hear it I still think it's Joni's song, although it's really unlikely." "Help Me" was a blues hit by Sonny Boy Williamson in the 50s, and it's been a staple of Van Morrison's stage show since the mid-70s (it appears on Van's live album, It's Too Late To Stop Now, and he still performs it regularly). Given Sugar Blue's appearance with Phish at that 1993 show, I gotta believe it was Sonny Boy's tune they were playing. "Boston Jim" NP: Nothing...it's only 5:30 AM, and intelligent people are still asleep ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:05:20 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: The Top Prize I think I first heard Tangled Up in Blue in 1973 or 74. I knew it was something special and listened to it over and over. ( jesus, michael yarbrough wasn't even on the planet then ) But now, in 2000, I have 18 joni albums on my shelf, and not one Dylan album on my shelf. I have nothing agains the Bob. Just don't have any of his C.D.s. Probably one big problem is that i never get the hidden messages, so there's no...wow moments for me. patrick np. computer fan and fish pump ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:47:40 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: michaels bday, dylan, joni and running Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > < or 74. I knew it was > something special and listened to it over and over. > ( jesus, michael > yarbrough wasn't even on the planet then )>> I had to laugh over this comment of yours re: Michael....(absolutely no offense Michael..I just cant believe how the time has flown)....contemplating Michaels 25th bday today sure made me feel old too. I remember turning 25 and thinking I was old then. Isnt it ironic. Anyway, happy bday Michael :))) > > patrick also wrote: > < shelf, and not one Dylan album > on my shelf. I have nothing agains the Bob. Just > don't have any of his > C.D.s. Probably one big problem is that i never get > the hidden messages, so > there's no...wow moments for me.>> me again: I saw Bob D. in Toronto a couple of years ago when I went to see Joni here at the Gardens.She was incredible!!! I remember sitting there thinking omg...its really HER...and I was overwhelmed with emotions. Im sorry to say that the down side of this concert was the boomy, crappy acoustics. It was very creepy sitting at the Gardens considering its history. Anyway.....Bob D. was definitely the big draw...the crowds went absolutely wild and I remember thinking and wondering....am I missing something??? oh WELL> Not to say he wasnt good....just didnt evoke the same response in me. I sat there kind of stunned after the fact...I had just seen Joni for the one and only time in my life and didnt want her part of the programme to end..ever!!!!....and then there was Bob and out came the dancers in the dark. I started running again this week after several weeks off...what a wonderful and yet bizarre sensation that was. It is going so well that Im not even sore (yeah , right)...Seriously, it IS going really well...sometimes taking a break from running is a good thing, so my coach says. I take Mimis walkman and play the tape I made for Brian (dave matthews , U2 etc) . I get to look out over the Hamilton Harbour/Burlington Bay , which is a mixed thing....the juxtaposition of steel mills with natural trails and water and some sailboats and especially the hawks....thats where I see hawks alot...the most amazing thing....they often circle over me while I run...a good sign that i often watch for ;) good running, Mags > > np: two step, dave matthews - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:26:38 CEST From: "Signe Wiig Salvesen" Subject: Does anyone know? Hi! I see that there`s something called Jonifests.I been getting some information about it on the Joni Mitchell Homepage.But I Wonder if someone can tell me if there has been or will be any of these Jonifests in Europe?? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:29:32 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Another Joni cover...maybe <> Sugar Blue was basically a "Playin' real good for free" type of guy that Mick Jagger discovered in Chicago and enlisted to play on their humongo-hit "Miss You". I guess he just sorta faded back into obscurity after that... I'm sure this version of Help Me is NOT Joni's, but of course I hope I'm wrong. Del Shannon (Runaway, Hats Off to Larry, etc.) also wrote a song called Help Me. I noticed it on his website and talked to the Webmaster about it. Bob, always looking for mo' Joni covers... NP: Dusty Springfield, "I Found My Way" ------------------------------ Date: 13 Oct 00 12:09:00 EDT From: Jeff Clark Subject: On Court and Spark and the Sunshine Coast I was reading Cameron Crowe's Joni interview from '79 recently. This is a great read and one of the most revealing interviews I've ever read from her. I was intrigued by this question: (Crowe): Was The Hissing of Summer Lawns more of an L.A. album for you than Court and Spark? (JM): Yes, because Court and Spark still contains a lot of songs written up in Canada. The song "Court and Spark" itself was written up on my land there. It deals with the story based on Vancouver and the Sunshine Coast. This beautiful, enigmatic little song has always been a favorite of mine--but it always seemed to me that it would have been based in LA. (But then isn't Peoples Park in San Francisco (or Berkely?)). Does anyone know what this story of Vacouver and the Sunshine Coast is (or even where the Sunshine Coast is?) Jeff ("Love came to my door...") ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:38:26 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch Paul, As Ronald Regan would say, "There you go again!" Joni does not 'pervert' the word clandestine. Anymore than she perverts the word "omelette" in Carey. She's having fun with pronounciation- that's a GOOD thing for a singer-songwriter to do. Unless, it's "Songs she sang to me Songs she brang to me." as someone pointed out recently. (Bob Mueller?) You must cheer up Paul. Cheer up or I'll come over there and kick your ass. :) I sentence you to hang by your thumbs until you cheer up. The punishment will continue until morale improves. :) Somebody stop me. Lamadoo Paul said, " Milk of the Madonna Clandestine >> Personally, while I enjoyed plenty of bottles of liebfraumich in my late teens and 20s, I think this is one of Joni's worst lyrics because she perverts the pronunciation of clandestine, the preferred pronunciation of which has a silent e on the end and the accent on the middle syllable. Pronunciation: klan-'des-t&n Maybe she should have tried to rhyme something with liebfraumilch instead of Rhine wine. Paul I All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:05:03 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch In a message dated 10/13/00 12:44:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << Joni does not 'pervert' the word clandestine. Anymore than she perverts the word "omelette" in Carey. She's having fun with pronounciation- that's a GOOD thing for a singer-songwriter to do. >> I see a big difference between stretching out a correct pronunciation, as she does with "omelette" -- that IS hacing fun -- and changing a pronunciation entirely to a wrong one just for a bad rhyme. I love her songwriting, but that one just irks me. And no JoniPollyanna is going to change my mind after 30 years. ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:08:09 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: On Court and Spark and the Sunshine Coast Jeff- The Sunshine Coast is North of Vancouver- around the mountains and up the coast. One can only get there by ferry. Lots of summer and weekend homes, some small towns- really quite beautiful. Ms. Mitchell has owned a home there for many years- the cover and liner photos from the LP For the Roses, are shot there.. As for the Vancouver story- no idea!!! Regards, Stephen in Vancouver Jeff Clark on 10/13/1900 09:09:00 AM Please respond to Jeff Clark To: joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Stephen Epstein/Agmont) Subject: On Court and Spark and the Sunshine Coast I was reading Cameron Crowe's Joni interview from '79 recently. This is a great read and one of the most revealing interviews I've ever read from her. I was intrigued by this question: (Crowe): Was The Hissing of Summer Lawns more of an L.A. album for you than Court and Spark? (JM): Yes, because Court and Spark still contains a lot of songs written up in Canada. The song "Court and Spark" itself was written up on my land there. It deals with the story based on Vancouver and the Sunshine Coast. This beautiful, enigmatic little song has always been a favorite of mine--but it always seemed to me that it would have been based in LA. (But then isn't Peoples Park in San Francisco (or Berkely?)). Does anyone know what this story of Vacouver and the Sunshine Coast is (or even where the Sunshine Coast is?) Jeff ("Love came to my door...") ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:44:24 -0700 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Joni Poster @ Mendel That ever so informative Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: I am happy to report I zipped right over to that site and purchased a lovely poster. We're constructing a new room in our house and I'll need *something* on the walls ... Thank you, Jim! Lindsay P.S. Jim, Rick was kind enough to score a catalog for me when he went to the opening. You can't go wrong. Joni's beautiful artwork, several writings by Joni, very nice quality paper. I'd highly recommend it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:36:59 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Sweet Joni I was just listening to a recording of the song Sweet Joni by Neil Young (as Bette once said, "oh Neil he's so deep!" but I digress) for the first time. It is on a boot compilation of stuff and the recording is in the Civic Auditorium in Bakersfiels, California 3-20-73. Does anyone know when this song was written? I find it to be preety unremarkable both lyrically and musically and thought that maybe the song was very young and possibly incomplete at the time. Michael NP-Tonights the Night-Neil Live at Queens College, NY 11-15-73 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Oct 00 01:13:47 MET DST From: Lori Reason Subject: Re: [Re: I went looking for a cause...] This IS good - is anyone collecting these? Les? Here's a special one. She and about 20 other local artists contributed a surf board to a semi-private fund raiser for the Big Green initiative in So. Calif. (1990-1?). Most of them had painted colors of the ocean, beaches, trees, etc. Hers was ugly - she smeared tar and glued litter that she picked up off the beach in Santa Monica/Venice. She even glued on a condom! At first I was disappointed, then started laughing. She has *got* to make a statement. All of them were for sale. I always wondered if anyone bought hers. (Kakki, I guess I'll have to join you sitting in the corner for telling this 'terribly' true story.) In the WONDERFUL book 'Stand and Be Counted' (right on David) he says on Dec. 6, 1975 she and the Rolling Thunder Revue played in the New Jersey Correctional Institute for Women. It was a concert for Rubin "Hurricane" Carter who along with other male inmates were brought to this women's prison (just for the concert). She sang on Tears are not Enough - the Canadian version of Band Aids "Do They Know It's Christmas/Feed the World" Jan. 19, 1995 - Commitment to Life VIII (AIDS benefit) Universal Ampitheatre. David says "Sex was still the topic when Joni Mitchell walked out, armed only with an acoustic guitar - which is all she ever needs. Joni's genius for telling the tale is evident in every song she's ever written. I've said it many times - a hundred years from now, people will look back and say, Who was the greatest singer-songwriter of this time? And in my ever so *unhumble* opinion, it'll be Joni." 1990 - The Berlin Wall Does anyone remember a benefit concert in Long Beach (1982-83) she did with the Eagles? I don't remember seeing Joni on TV but I do remember Judy Collins (oh, not her again!) on Merv Griffin. He was a huge fan, and announced her saying something like, Here is a woman with a voice like silver. It was her song My Father (and eating apples and cheese - oh I guess I am a hippie chick!) that made me fall in love with wanting to go to France. How can you resist this: My Father always promised us that we would live in France We'd go boating on the Seine and I would learn to dance We lived in Ohio then, he worked in the mines On his dreams like boats for you we'd sail, in time.... Soon my sisters all were gone to Denver and Cheyenne Marrying their grownup dreams, the lilacs and the man I stayed behind the youngest still, only danced alone The colors of my fathers dreams faded without a sigh And I live in Paris now, my children dance and sing Hearing the words of a miners life in words they've never seen (?) I sail my memories of home like boats across the Seine And watch the Paris sun set in my fathers eyes, again. lori in france ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:41:26 +1300 From: "Hell" Subject: Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch Paul wrote: > Personally, while I enjoyed plenty of bottles of liebfraumich in my late > teens and 20s, I think this is one of Joni's worst lyrics because she > perverts the pronunciation of clandestine, the preferred pronunciation of > which has a silent e on the end and the accent on the middle syllable. > Pronunciation: klan-'des-t&n > Maybe she should have tried to rhyme something with liebfraumilch instead of > Rhine wine. The pronounciation of clandestine depends entirely on where you are from. In New Zealand, your pronounciation of the word would be considered incorrect, and Joni's correct, ie. klan-des-tine, with the pronounciation on the first syllable, not the second. I'm assuming as a Canadian, she follows more "English" pronounciations, as do Kiwis and Australians. It doesn't make one or the other wrong or right, just different. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:19:31 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: [Re: I went looking for a cause...] Lori in France wrote: > This IS good - is anyone collecting these? Les? I second that emotion! It seems there is quite a list worth noting. > Hers was ugly - she smeared tar and glued litter that she >picked up off the beach in Santa Monica/Venice. She even >glued on a condom! At first I was disappointed, then started >laughing. She has *got* to make a statement. All of them >were for sale. I always wondered if anyone bought hers. That's hilarious and so apropos! Lori, you and I are probably the few around here old enough to remember when it was safe to swim and surf in the Santa Monica Bay ;-D I wonder if she's contributed to Heal The Bay, too. > In the WONDERFUL book 'Stand and Be Counted' (right on >David) he says on Dec. 6, 1975 she and the Rolling Thunder >Revue played in the New Jersey Correctional Institute for >Women. It was a concert for Rubin "Hurricane" Carter who >along with other male inmates were brought to this women's >prison (just for the concert). I'll back you up and put in anouther plug for Croz's book. It is a wonderful read and very impressive. By the way, Lori, I was just thinking about you today while goofing off at work researching my Alsace roots on the internet ;-) Kakki NP: Lisa Johnson - Whenever the Moon is Full ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:34:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: [Re: I went looking for a cause...] << She sang on Tears are not Enough - the Canadian version of Band Aids "Do They Know It's Christmas/Feed the World" >> Hiya Lori! And you triggered another memory, that she sings on a pretty cool little record called "Spirit Of The Forest" which was a benefit for Rainforests or some such. Joni & XTC on the same record, I can die happy! :~) I've got a pristine copy of it, but I haven't thrown it on a compilation yet because Simon promised a tree of all that Contribution stuff this fall. What's the update on that project, Simon? Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "Point Blank" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:34:41 +1300 From: "Hell" Subject: Re: kiss this guy This was NJC, but since I've included Joni, I thought the Joni-only might be amused as well! Bob wrote: > It's the title of a book about misheard lyrics. Apparently many people > thought Jimi Hendricks said, "'Scuse me while I kiss this guy" instead of > "'Scuse me while I kiss the sky." There's also a website at: http://www.kissthisguy.com There are two entries for Joni, both for the line "They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot", misheard as "It tastes very nice, food of the parking lot", and "A gay pair of guys put up a parking lot". There's also an entry for Woodstock (under CSNY) for the line "Well I came upon a child of God" heard as "Well I came upon a Charlie Dodd"! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:13:39 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Sweet Joni Well Michael, you could at least spell my fair city's name correctly! ; - D It's Bakersfield! At least something good happened here in 1973. Of course I was living in Miami then...figures... Phyliss Michael Paz wrote: > I was just listening to a recording of the song Sweet Joni by Neil Young (as > Bette once said, "oh Neil he's so deep!" but I digress) for the first time. > It is on a boot compilation of stuff and the recording is in the Civic > Auditorium in Bakersfiels, California 3-20-73. Does anyone know when this > song was written? I find it to be preety unremarkable both lyrically and > musically and thought that maybe the song was very young and possibly > incomplete at the time. > > Michael > > NP-Tonights the Night-Neil Live at Queens College, NY 11-15-73 - -- Phyliss mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:26:01 -0400 From: dsk Subject: NO Joni in Music Issue 400! Today I grabbed up the November issue of Vanity Fair because the headline said "THE MUSIC ISSUE! 400 ..." and I was sure there'd be at least one picture of Joni, but Nooooo! Not that I can find anyway and I've flipped through lots of times. What a disappointment! The only mention I could find of Joni was in Elvis Costello's list of 500 albums essential to a happy life. So since I'm looking at that now, here's what Joni cds Elvis considers essential and the song on each one that he thinks makes it essential: Blue: Last Time I saw Richard For the Roses: Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire Court and Spark: Down to You The Hissing of Summer Lawns: Shades of Scarlet Conquering Hejira: Amelia Taming the Tiger: Man from Mars; Stay in Touch WHAT? no NRH, no Slouching....? Nothing from Dog Eat Dog? (just kidding) No Dancin' Clown? or Lead Balloon? What's with this Elvis guy? And no Joni pictures? Although the headline does say "400 rock-'em sock-'em pages of guitar gods and blues kings, soul divas and hip-hop queens, jazz legends and hair bands". Guess Joni's not considered any of those so that's why she's not in the issue. But James Levine isn't either and he's in there. Why?? How misleading, a "music issue" with no Joni. There is a good article about Madonna though (why? she's not any of those music types either), and there's also a picture of a very happy Eric Clapton (that's good to see), and a very moody (what's new?) Lou Reed. Strange issue of a magazine. Should have spent more time flipping through at the newstand and saved my big $3.95. Debra Shea NP: Another American League championship series game. Yankees 3, Mariners 1, top of the fourth. Subway series is looking like a possibility and people are already going nuts. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:14:53 -0700 From: "susan" Subject: Mojo Check Dear Joni, I've had digital interference...That's kinda like a can of neon green psychedelic worms in your fishbowl ;~) I'm just checkin' out my mojo :~D Susan L.A. I am your angel :~) http://www.ladiesnlace.net/chelsea.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:54:26 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch on 10/12/00 11:02 PM, Murphycopy@aol.com at Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/13/00 1:03:33 AM, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: > > << Along with tea and certain wines. I know Joni did alot of good for the > marketing of a certain German white rhine wine. >> > > Joni sang: > > Seventeen glasses > Rhine wine > Milk of the Madonna > Clandestine > > And she also sang: > > Well I've got this berth and this roll down blind > I've got this fold up sink > And these rocks and these cactuses going by > And a bottle of German wine to drink > > That "certain German wine" Michael mentions was Liebfraumilch, I believe, > which was big in the '70s and '80s. It's a sweet white wine that goes with > things like apples and cheeses. I've been told that Liebfraumilch means, > surprise surprise, virgin's milk, or, as Joni says, milk of the Madonna. > > --Bob I don't recall it being so much sweet as fruity (different as far as the wine steward is concerned). Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:05:03 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch on 10/12/00 11:49 PM, IVPAUL42@aol.com at IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/13/00 2:07:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > > << > Joni sang: > > Seventeen glasses > Rhine wine > Milk of the Madonna > Clandestine >>> > Personally, while I enjoyed plenty of bottles of liebfraumich in my late > teens and 20s, I think this is one of Joni's worst lyrics because she > perverts the pronunciation of clandestine, the preferred pronunciation of > which has a silent e on the end and the accent on the middle syllable. > Pronunciation: klan-'des-t&n > Maybe she should have tried to rhyme something with liebfraumilch instead of > Rhine wine. > > Paul I As far as I am concerned songwriters, rhymers, and the like should be given the latitude because they are almost always singers as well. Dave Matthews, Robert Plant and a host of other singers take all kinds of latitudes when it comes to proper annunciation is concerned. I remember Elton pronouncing garage as guerrrage in Levon, but it was one of the charming things about the song. Plant was also guilty of making something from a hook even if it was a miss-pronounciation of a word. Were you also as critical of big boo-hoo in Man From Mars? Come on Pauly, just for sake of discussion or Conversation you may need to lighten up just a bit. At least she didn't stoop as low as "Got Milk!" ( I know before its time, but you know what I mean). Paz NP-CNN (yuck) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:21:19 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: "Joni Mitchell, My Brilliant Goon" Sometime during the summer someone posted this URL http://faculty.uca.edu/james.murray/joni150.gif for a cartoon called "Joni Mitchell, My Brilliant Goon" by a soon-to-be-famous guy named Garret Gaston. It's about a kid who gets beaten up every day by Rudy Rikovic, a bully at school. The kid finds comfort in listening to Joni's music, and dreams that she comes to him and becomes his "goon" by getting revenge on the bully. If you haven't seen this hilarious cartoon yet, check it out. Anyway, I liked "My Brilliant Goon" so much I contacted Garret to see if I could buy a print of it and he's willing to do it. I just thought that if anyone else likes the cartoon as much as I do and would like a copy, you can contact Garret at garret_g@yahoo.com about buying this unique Joni treasure. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:19:14 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Apples, Cheeses and Liebfraumilch In a message dated 10/13/00 10:54:48 PM, jmichaelpaz@telocity.com writes: << I don't recall it being so much sweet as fruity (different as far as the wine steward is concerned). >> I'm not much of a wine drinker, but from what I remember of Liebfraumilch, you're absolutely right. It's just that "fruity" isn't a word I use much! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:59:39 EDT From: JoniMessages@aol.com Subject: Happy Birthday Joni Hi all, As I'm sure everybody knows, Joni's birthday is only a few weeks away, on November 7. I think it would be great if we got together and sent a nice simple greeting to wish her our best, and to let her know we're thinking of her. I'm sure some of you have ideas you'd like to share for an Internet Community birthday card -- I'd love to hear them, so please post your thoughts to the list so we can decide what to do. I'll be happy to play postman. jj (JoniMitchell.com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:25:27 +0100 From: Nancy Subject: Re: Judy Collins/Bob/Apples&Cheese Hi, Has anyone heard Judy Collins in concert? She is coming to my area next May; am thinking about getting tickets. Any recommendations??? For the last several years, I seem to have been favoring female musical artists--so, absolutely I must say Joni over Bob. The only song I can remember liking of his is "Lay Lady Lay" back in junior high/high school. (Obviously not a hard-core Dylan fan :-)) The people I knew back then > that were Joni fans also seemed to have information that "Conversation" > was about Judy Collins/Stephen Stills. I like this thread about food mentioned in Joni's songs. I especially like Extra Sharp Cheddar Cheese with my apples :-) I also think the line you refer to (apples & > cheeses) may not need to be taken so literal... Later, Nancy/IA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:32:11 +0100 From: Nancy Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #396 Hi Paul, I would love to hear your suggestions for this! :-) > Maybe she should have tried to rhyme something with liebfraumilch Nancy/IA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:33:00 +0100 From: Nancy Subject: Re: apples, cheeses, and liebfraumilch Hi Paul, I would love to hear your suggestions for this! :-) > Maybe she should have tried to rhyme something with liebfraumilch Nancy/IA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:16:10 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #544 barbara wrote: i used to visit my grandfather in belmar all the time, borrow another relative's beach badge to hit the boardwalk. Wow. Beach badges. I'd forgotten all about those. Here in California there is no such thing. Anyone can go to any beach anytime. What an odd concept it seems after living here for so long. ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:32:16 +0700 From: "william" Subject: Bob & Joni - the paint & the paintbrush How do you guys manage to be in mid thread before I get it downloaded? Anyway on the now exhausted Dylan or Joni? .......... Rightfully acknowledged as one of the top albums of all time, Blonde on Blonde is peerless. Highway 61, Blood on the Tracks, Desire, New Morning - wonderful! The way I see it, Dylan sketches and throws all his work on the table raw for everyone to see (a kind of here do something with this), whereas Joni works in detail and frames her musical tapestries before display (a kind of this is how it is). Dare I say therefore Dylan is more interpretable and therefore more appealling as Joni's work is so definitive and harder to accommodate / do anything with on a six-stringed standard-tuned Yamaha in a college bed-sit with 101 Tunes for Buskers. Dylan is the paint, Joni is the paintbrush. IVy P says preaching to the converted whereas Jim the Man-o-God wants to re-affirm his faith. I see something of myself in every point of view. What's the point? That's exactly the point. Willy the Shake For Dean's vicarious thrill - on a world map 1mm west of Bali on the island of Jawa, Indonesia. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 02:52:21 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Joni J.J. wrote: << Joni's birthday is only a few weeks away, on November 7. I think it would be great if we got together and sent a nice simple greeting to wish her our best, and to let her know we're thinking of her. >> That's right!! All of you brilliant, talented, artistic, creative JMDLers, time to put your quick thinking caps on to let Joni know how much she is loved and apprectiated. .........and I don't think we can just get away with singing Victor's "Happy F**king Birthday" song :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #397 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?