From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #372 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, September 20 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 372 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- the B-52s (SJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] The List ["Kate Bennett" ] A Joni moment on a crowded train ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Fwd: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? [Susan McNamara ] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? ["Brenda J. Walker" <] Re: Ludwig's Tune [B Merrill ] Re: Prequel to Harry's House/HOSL [B Merrill ] Joni and an acoustic quitar (SJC) [Loren Carter ] Re: Ludwig's Tune [Alison ] Fwd: Joni and an acoustic quitar [Susan McNamara ] Re: HOSL and blindness [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? [JRMCo1@aol.com] Best singer / songwriters ? Richard Thompson ? [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Joni trivia - vocal leaps. [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? [Susan McNamara ] Jose attribution (was Prequel to Harry's House) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? ["Brenda J. Walker" <] Joni at an AIDS benefit ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: odd joni musical trivia question ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Harry's House ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: At LAsT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ["Stephen Epstein" ] RE: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? [john low ] Re: Harry's House/Arrangement [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:08:34 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: the B-52s (SJC) Hey Jim - I would say the B-52s changed my life -- they made it much more fun. The B-52s were all about fun, about silliness, about dancing, about not feeling sorry for yourself, and my attitude has always been he who dies with the most fun wins. Fred, Kate, Cindy and Ricky came up with some truly great party songs like "Roam" and "Bushfire" and of course, "Love Shack". They were true originals, witty and tongue in cheek, and nobody made music or videos quite like them. And as someone who thinks parties and party songs are very important, they make it into my pantheon of music deities. I have lost a lot of weight dancing to the B-52s. In later efforts, their songs turned to concern for the environment with Juicy Jungle and Revolution Earth. One of my favorite lines from a song ever is from "Deadbeat Club", a nostalgic song with a Joni feel about a wonderful time that's passed: "We'll dance in the garden in torn sheets in the rain." Kate Pierson idolizes our Joan, and yes, you can hear her influence in the music of the B-52s. Going down to Alan's bar for a 25 cent beer. - - Clark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:49:01 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? In a message dated 09/18/2000 8:41:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << The Guys: Dylan Smokey Robinson Willie Dixon Paul Simon Curtis Mayfield >> Stephen already said Elvis Costello, but I'll second that vote. Probably THE most prolific songwriter of the last 20 years and master of every genre there is, just about. I'd also include Bruce Springsteen, our generation's Woody Guthrie, who explores a consistent theme but does it with such brilliance much like Joni can write love song after love song and never duplicate herself...and thanks for including Curtis Mayfield. And the Willie Dixon choice is inspired but odd...many bluesmen would also be eligible (John Le Hooker, Muddy Waters), including most obviously Chuck Berry. >> Before many of the names above went on my list I'd have to list Peter Gabriel and Jackson Browne, and probably James Taylor as well. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:15:24 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The List michael w yarbrough I so agree with you when you say, "To this list I would add, off the top of my head, Prince, Willy Nelson,and the most glaring omission from your list, Neil Young." AND, as much as I love a few of his albums as much as Joni's, I do have to agree when you say, "If Stevie Wonder's lyrics didn't suck so badly he'd be here, too." Then to add one more master songwriter that has not been mentioned: James Taylor ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:50:00 GMT From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: A Joni moment on a crowded train Last night I was returning home from work on this crowded underground train in London (the "Tube") and there was a man sitting and reading a book apparently called "The science of discworld". Chapter Eight has the following title: "We are Stardust (or at least we went to Woodstock)". Does anyone know more about the book? Raffaele in rainy London _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:44:16 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: A Joni moment on a crowded train Raffaele in rainy London wrote:- > Last night I was returning home from work on this crowded underground train > in London (the "Tube") and there was a man sitting and reading a book > apparently called "The science of discworld". Chapter Eight has the > following title: > "We are Stardust (or at least we went to Woodstock)". > Does anyone know more about the book? Yep - it's a collaboration between Terry Pratchett and someone else, and you'll find it in the sci/fi and fantasy section of pretty much any bookshop. It seeks to compare and draw parallels between the science of our world and the magic of Pratchett's Discworld. I've only read a bit of it so far and hadn't got to the "Stardust" part. Well done for noticing! Cheers, - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:48:03 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Ludwig's Tune > > At Topsfield I had the awesome pleasure of singing "Ludwig's Tune" with > Victor Johnson on keyboard - a humbling experience to say the least - > thank you Victor for inviting me to accompany you and for encouraging me > to be spontaneous and conquer my fears. This was a humbling experience indeed. You were truly amazing Leslie Mixon. Thank you for taking me on that foggy trip where time just fades away and all I can hear is the sound of your voice singing. Victor, wondering if anybody remembers the piano player/composer on Sesame Street who used to bang his head on the piano over and over whenever he tried to write anything ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:05:41 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? Yes, Joni is the best singer/songwriter in the world. Next subject ... :-) Oh yeah, don't forget damn good guitar player, too. sue > > Does everyone here think that Joni is THE best singer/songwriter there >is and ever has been?I know she herself thinks she's among the best in the >world.I only wish she wrote less love songs and more songs about other >subjects. ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:08:35 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House Has anyone mentioned Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire? One of her magic marker drawings from FTR is, what seems to be, a woman in poverty not her age and abused by drugs. sue >What about Cherokee Louise? She meets all three criteria. > > > > > >>--- Anne Sandstrom wrote: >> > I can't think >> > of any song of hers about a woman who's living in >> > poverty, a woman who's >> > abused, or a woman who is vastly different in age >> > from Joni at the time she >> > wrote the song/created the character. > > >Deb Messling >messling@enter.net >http://www.enter.net/~messling/ > >~I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat. / Joni Mitchell ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:31:07 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? I would add Bruce Springsteen to that list of guys.... B Merrill wrote: > I assumed that the orginal question was rhetorical. But I've been thinking > about this topic. So let me re-phrase it along the lines of: > > Which singer-songwriters of our time, Joni's time (the last 35-40 years, > since the revolution in pop-rock-folk songwriting brought about by the > "British Invasion," etc) are the most impressive, in terms of both the > quality and quantity of their output? > > I'd like to underline the quantity aspect, since what is especially > impressive about Joni is her SUSTAINED creative powers-- and I suspect, > most of all, most consistently, her sustained lyrical powers. She has not > exhausted herself, or burned out. (Whether she has peaked is another > question. Time will tell...) > > Before answering the question, it might be useful to locate Joni among some > of the other major singer-songwriters of her time. > > Among the contenders might be, off the top of my head, and in no order: > > The Ladies: > > Laura Nyro > Joni > Ricky Lee J > Kate Bush > > The Guys: > > Dylan > Smokey Robinson > Willy Dixon > Paul Simon > Curtis Mayfield > > Who else? > > This is not a list of my favorites, what I like most of all. I'm just > trying to list the generally venerated singer-songwriters, with a > *sustained* track record. > > And when you emphasize the quantity part, then I suspect that the only > songwriters here who might be more prolific than Joni (while keeping up an > adequate quality control) would be Dylan and Smokey Robinson. Does that > sound right? > > Please note that I'm ruling out Bachrach because he is not a lyricist, and > Sondheim because he is not a singer. I'm also setting aside composing > pairs, such as Lennon & McCartney, Becker & Fagen. Apologies if that seems > too arbitrary. > > ciao, > > Bruce > > Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > Does everyone here think that Joni is THE best singer/songwriter > there > >is and ever has been? I know she herself thinks she's among the best in the > >world. I only wish she wrote less love songs and more songs about other > >subjects. > > I *think* I agree on this last point.... But But But maybe I don't... > 'Cause hasn't she written a great deal on topics outside of her romance de > jour? Who else might write a song about, say, Ethiopia? What subjects did > you have in mind? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:10:56 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Ludwig's Tune >Kakki, first president of Victor's SoCal Fan Club ;-) says: >Leslie, you and Victor were awesome on this one. >There was something truly magical happening during your performance. I'm >glad I was there to experience it. Yes definitely. Thank you so much Leslie and Victor for putting that together. And Victor let me say again how nice it was so hear your singing voice in the proximate and un-miced (sp?) intimate setting of Ashara's back porch, afterwards. (And Michael Paz's voice, too.) Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:29:44 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Prequel to Harry's House/HOSL Yes, Mark, like you, I'd always assumed that the blindness theme was metaphoric, and it does diminish it, somewhat, to find that it's literal, or may be literal. It makes it less poignant... maybe even a little bit cruel? So I think Joni was right to try to cut off Chaka when she spilled the beans. I'll have to remember not to tell Chaka any of my intimacies. Bruce >Somehow giving the references to blindness a literal meaning just >ruins the song for me. >Chaka should have kept her mouth shut. Maybe it's some kind of >running joke that the two of them have about the song. I prefer to be >in denial on this subject! Sometimes denial is... where it's at! - -- he said, popping in his rose colored eyes, B. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Sep 00 12:39:19 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: Joni and an acoustic quitar (SJC) All, My wife and I were watching the first tape tree video...and, let me stop here to thank everyone involved with the entire tape tree process. The packaging was excellent, and the overall cutting and pasting together of the segments was super....now back to the point...most of the first segments had her playing an acoustic guitar all by herself, and while she was playing she would tap her fingernails on the body of the guitar giving a percussion sound and beat to the song. Later on the tape she was playing her electric guitar, and well, I started to miss that drum-like sound to her songs. Yeah, sure, I'll get over it, but..... Loren.... NP...American Pie...Don McLean (on the classic rock station) p.s. Ashara, thanks ever so much for the tapes. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:43:06 -0600 From: Alison Subject: Re: Ludwig's Tune > From: "Victor Johnson" >> At Topsfield I had the awesome pleasure of singing "Ludwig's Tune" with >> Victor Johnson on keyboard - a humbling experience to say the least - >> thank you Victor for inviting me to accompany you and for encouraging me >> to be spontaneous and conquer my fears. this was an amazing performance, one of the highlights of saturday's festivities (or any day's festivities...) incredible vocals by leslie and victor's playing was well...incredible!!! (where's that damn thesaurus????) victor, not only do i remember the piano composer guy on sesame street, he was one of my favorite characters! my grandma used to come in and watch that one and giggle with me (she was also an incredible pianist). i'll admit, that if i run into sesame street while channel flipping, i get sucked in every time! alison e. > Victor, wondering if anybody remembers the piano player/composer on Sesame > Street who used to bang his head on the piano over and over whenever he > tried to write anything ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:53:31 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Joni and an acoustic quitar Loren said: >...most of the first segments had her >playing an acoustic guitar all by herself, and while she was playing she would >tap her fingernails on the body of the guitar giving a percussion sound and >beat to the song. Later on the tape she was playing her electric guitar, and >well, I started to miss that drum-like sound to her songs. Yeah, sure, I'll >get over it, but..... You may get over it, but I'm not sure I will. Some of the taped performances of Joni acoustic during the TI period are her best in my opinion. What is amazing about her whole Night Ride Home/Turbulent Indigo phase is she was coming back from a long hiatus of performing live and the sounds she was getting out of a guitar were just mesmerizing, even while she was forgetting lyrics left and right!! :-) Edmonton Folk Festival (Aug 94?) is a wonderful example. Hasn't performed in front of an audience in umpteen years and opens the set with Last Chance Lost. visionary, she's my hero. sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:46:48 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL and blindness In a message dated 9/19/00 11:26:01 AM, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << I'd always assumed that the blindness theme was metaphoric, and it does diminish it, somewhat, to find that it's literal, or may be literal. It makes it less poignant... maybe even a little bit cruel? >> Besides fear of a law suit or controversy in gerneral, I think Bruce has hit upon the reasons Joni would not have wanted Chaka to divulge the inspiration for HOSL. Although Joni sings about "darkness" and "a diamond dog carrying a cup and a cane" in HOSL, I noticed that she doesn't mention the words "blind" or "blindness" (probably a little too literal for our Joan, considering the alleged subject matter). I couldn't help but think of how many references there are to blindness in Joni's songs, however, and when I couldn't think of any more examples, I did a little Sherlocking through her lyrics. Remember the recent "moon" thread? Well, I think Joni probably mentions some form of the word "blind" more than she ever mentions the moon. Blindness seems to be a recurring -- or as Joni would say, "reoccurring" -- theme in her lyrics. I came up with the 13 instances listed below. Maybe it's not a lot for a poet/songwriter over the course of a 30+ year career, but for me it's interesting enough to keep me occupied when I should be working on something for a very boring client. Now I think I'll check out how many times she's used the word "the." Here are Joni's "blindness" lyrics: I Had a KIng -- "Lately he's taken to saying I'm crazy and blind" I Think I Understand -- "I've robbed its blackness blind" This Flight Tonight -- "Ooh, ooh, love is blind" People's Parties -- "Fumbling deaf dumb and blind" Edith and the Kingpin -- "Beating frantic and snowblind, Romantic and snowblind" Shadows and Light -- "Blindness, blindness and sight" God Must Be a Boogie Man -- "Blind faith to care, Blind rage to kill" Fiction -- "Some follow blind" The Three Great Stimulants -- "Appetites find us, Release us and blind us" The Windfall -- "Oh it's not like I was blind" Come in from the Cold -- "I was running blind" Ray's Dad's Cadillac -- "I'll be blackboard blind on Monday" The Sire of Sorrow -- "Like eyes for the blind, like feet for the lame" -- Bob Murphy, writing this behind a "blind" of potted palms at Wendy's NP: Sweet Blindness ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:39:56 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? Does the name Marvin Gaye mean anything to anybody? He's near the top of my list. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:16:47 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Best singer / songwriters ? Richard Thompson ? Hi everyone. I'm glad somebody mentioned Peter Gabriel, but what about the evergreen Richard Thompson, who I'm sure deserves a mention ! And maybe John Martyn ? Bye for now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:18:40 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Joni trivia - vocal leaps. The second chorus of "Case of You" takes some beating! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:24:38 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? Another Bruce who comes to mind--Cockburn. God I love that guy, really. I still haven't been able to get over how great his Charity of Night album was. Consistent, too. I'm dating myself here but I've been listening to him since 1978. >I would add Bruce Springsteen to that list of guys.... > >B Merrill wrote: > > > I assumed that the orginal question was rhetorical. But I've been thinking > > about this topic. So let me re-phrase it along the lines of: > > > > Which singer-songwriters of our time, Joni's time (the last 35-40 years, > > since the revolution in pop-rock-folk songwriting brought about by the > > "British Invasion," etc) are the most impressive, in terms of both the > > quality and quantity of their output? ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:26:10 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: At LAsT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd been thinking last week that I'm really starting to believe in magic and manifestion but now I'm thoroughly convinced! I went to L5P to buy some cards and just happened to stop in at WaxnFacts Records as I hadn't been in some time. I was just kind of poking around and I walked over to the "M" section in used vinyl to thumb through the Joni section. And much to my surprise, instead of the usual worn out scratchy copies of Blue or LOTC, and Dog Eat Dogs, there was a Radio Promo copy of Mingus that looked like it had never been played. And if that wasn't enough, right behind it was a copy of Shadows and Light that likewise, looked like it might have been placed on a turntable once. But wait, there's more. I flipped up a couple more and lo and behold, Miles of Aisles was staring out at me in the same, virtually mint condition. Now I mentioned several times at Jonifest that I had never heard Miles of Aisles or Shadows and Light. It was not like I had been avoiding them but for some reason, I had never felt particularly inspired to go and pick them up. But I am so glad that I've waited because nothing equals the experience of going out and finding a record that you've never heard and taking it home and putting it on the turntable. I spent many years, all through junior high and high school, riding my bike to record stores, buying interesting albums, taking them home and listening to them over and over. I even used to wait till it was raining and then take my bike and ride the two or three miles to Sensous Sounds to peruse the records for an hour as I figured when it was pouring down rain, it was more of a challenge to venture out into the stormy weather, and I would value the records more since I had to go out in the rain to buy them. I remember spending hours perusing through albums, discovering new things, and bringing them home as if they were sacred, religious relics. And usually, if I liked one artist, the next time I went to the record store, I would buy 4 or 5 more of their albums and within a month I would have almost their whole catalog. Once, when I was buying Led Zeppelin Houses of the Holy, I was hit by a car coming out of a parking lot. The record flew through the air but miraculously it was undamaged. My bike was sort of smashed and I wasn't really hurt. And when I bought Jethro Tull Aqualung, I was sitting on a bench outside the mall, waiting for the bus, and I watched a con artist trick some lady out of her money by playing the "guess which nut the ball is under" game and then telling her he would double whatever money she had on her, and then taking it from her when she got it out. This was my first exposure to such trickery so it stuck in my mind a long time. Wow! I didn't know buying a couple of albums could send me down memory lane so far back. But anyway I'm sitting here listening to Joni sing so I must say I'm very happy right now. And all for a whopping twenty bucks! Victor NP: Miles of Aisles- A Case of You ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:10:36 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Jose attribution (was Prequel to Harry's House) Mark, of Mark-n-Travis fame, wrote, among other things: "Somehow giving the references to blindness a literal meaning just ruins the song for me. Chaka should have kept her mouth shut. Maybe it's some kind of running joke that the two of them have about the song. I prefer to be in denial on this subject!" Me now: Mark, I couldn't agree with you more. If the song was indeed inspired by a visit to Jose Feliciano's house, that would explain some of the more pointed references to blindness ("diamond dog, carrying a cup and cane"; "he gave her his darkness to regret") and the line about the "Latin drum," which never made much sense to me. But to me, the blindness in this song has always been spiritual in nature: a deep void in the life of this man, and probably, his wife or lover. The void seems inextricably linked to having sacrificed some essential facets of their beings to the pursuit of material success. To tie "blindness" too closely to *physical* blindness trivializes the larger points Joni is making here. So I proudly join Mark in denial, preferring to believe that, although Joni may have gotten some ideas for metaphors from visiting Jose or someone else, for that matter, she took those ideas and ran with them on her own. Mary P. P.S. Very good post, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:33:20 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Harry's House B Merrill wrote: > Whereas the options for women (esp. for middle class women) have improved > greatly since the 60's, the problem of materialism (as a seduction, an > obsession) is just as much with us, isn't it? Maybe it's even more with us, > with this gung ho economy of the past decade and all this new wealth. And > it's something that applies to both sexes, just as both Harry and Mrs. > Harry are focused on it, in their own way. Yes, materialism is with us, like emotional stuffing. I think people in this money-centered U.S. society (although perhaps it's now worldwide) often see money given as being love given. So being given material things might feel good at first because it equals love, but after a while those material things are not enough. In fact there can never be enough material things if there's not love, and if someone (often the man, as in Joni's songs) is working longer and longer hours in order to pay for those more and more things, then it's very hard to keep the love alive because that actually takes lots of non-money-making listening, laughing, sharing time. So the woman in Harry's House feels very stuck I think, lonely and unloved even though she's surrounded by all the stuff that Harry's paid for, and she's almost at the point where she's realizing all that. It's a very painful situation, for both of them. My impression is that she's aware only of her disappointment and doesn't understand why she feels that, so it comes out as bitterness in the Harry's take-home pay line. Even though she's disappointed, I don't think she's going anywhere. The materially comfortable life is too strong a pull. Sad. But that was the 1970s. Maybe today Mrs. Harry would go to law school (or something like that) and get her own money and then be a partner-in-love with Mr. Harry in a way that doesn't include being supported by his money. Sounds much better to me. And then they could have lots of stuff if they wanted to, but it would be just stuff, and not a substitute for love. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:58:03 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? I thought of Marvin too.....but I also think that within the context of Bruce's email, Marvin did not have the longevity as a songwriter, spanning a 40 year period. For me, it really all started with "What's Going On" ('71)and ended with "Midnight Love" ('82) which had his biggest hit, "Sexual Healing". His biggest hit prior to this period was "I Heard It Through The Grapevine" written by Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong. Although he wrote some of the songs from that early pop period, most of them came from the Motown syndicate of writers or were covers. He did alot more in 10 years though, then some people have done in a lifetime.... Brenda JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > Does the name Marvin Gaye mean anything to anybody? He's near the top of my list. > > -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:10:55 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Joni at an AIDS benefit I read somewhere that recently (well, some time in the 1990s), Joni played at an AIDS benefit and played 'Sex Kills'. Just wondering if this was entirely appropriate. After all she did write the words to 'A Chair In The Sky'. The rain slammed hard as bars It caught me by surprise Mutts of the planet And shook me down for alibis. I'm waiting for the keeper to release me Debating this sentence Biding my time In memories of old friend of mine, In day-dreams of Birdland, I see my soul on fire Burning up the band-stand. Next time, I'll be bigger. I'll be better than ever. I'll be happily attached To my cold hard cash. But now Manhattan holds me To a chair in the sky With the bird in my ears And boats in my eyes Going by. There's thing s I wished I'd done. Some friends I'm gonna miss. Beautiful lovers I never got the chance to kiss. Day dreaming drugs the pain of living. Processions of missing Lovers and friends Fade in and they fade out again. In these day-dreams of re-birth I see myself in style Raking in what I'm worth. Next time I'll be bigger. I'll be better than ever. I'll be resurrected royal, I'll be rich as Standard Oil. But now Manhattan holds me To a chair in the sky With the bird in my ears And boats in my eyes Going by. - -Joni Mitchell I don't know why I'm sending this but I guess I have only just re-read the Mingus book. Much Joni Zoob (does reading this poem out loud remind you of Maya Angelou? It does me...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 00:51:04 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: odd joni musical trivia question Hello Nickel Chief, it's the Zoob I know that from putting the sheet music to 'Mingus' in front of my singing teacher at drama school and trying to do a piano version of 'Drycleaner' Joni does those across the octave jumps within one or two tones, even more so than the chordal movement that the phrase that you mentioned... Furthermore in Mingus, she will jump quite odd intervals, nothing like fifths or octaves but ninths and sevenths etc etc, technically quite hard for any singer to do. The jump between 'He said he ran a cleaning plant' and 'That cat was clanking with coin.' is very difficult. And the line from the low 'D flat' (is it?) to the top 'G' in 'Losing my taste for fruit' and 'This is a story that's a drag to tell'. The whole song is a vocal exercise in technique and speed. Joni at that time still had her head voice (her falsetto in male terms) as well as this new area of chest (that she had been developing since FTR) which makes the vocal gymnastics seem effortless. When singing most of Joni songs, especially the early ones, it does help (for chaps) to has an easy access to your falsetto. People that attended Chris Marshall's Cambridgeshire Jonifest have experienced my falsetto (ahem). Jumping straight into that head 'area' of your voice (which is really a head/chest mix in singing terms) is the only way us chaps are going to do Joni's songs in our normal range. No way could I sing 'I came in as bright as a neon light and then I burned out right there before him' without either starting in falsetto or putting the whole song an octave down. All the best Hope this has answered some of your trivia questions. Jamie Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Bird does anybody know, offhand, what Joni's widest vocal leap is? meaning, the notes within one phrase with the widest spread on the scale. just curious. this came to mind while chirping to myself the line "i came in as bright as a neon light and i burned out right there before him" and couldn't get as high as "came in" nor as low as "him" and realized she does that wack note-jumpin' all the time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:25:27 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: Salon Van Article / April 2000 Joni article For all the Van fans out there, Salon has a nice article about him today at: http://www.salon.com/people/bc/2000/09/19/morrison/index.html Here's a reference to Joni: Morrison is not terribly in vogue these days. Critics are kind to each release but no one sees him breaking any new ground. And while new bands still bite his style (Counting Crows being the most obvious), it's a far cry from the late '70s when any number of singer-songwriters -- Bruce Springsteen, Elvis Costello, Graham Parker -- were paying homage. Morrison handled this sincere flattery with typical good grace. "Springsteen's definitely ripped me off," he said in an interview, while in a song entitled "A Town Called Paradise" he complained that "Copycats ripped off my words/Copycats ripped off my songs," etc. Like Joni Mitchell, he sees ripples in pop's water from the stones he once threw, and it burns him up. ******************** The link to the April 2000 Salon Joni article: http://www.salon.com/people/bc/2000/04/04/mitchell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:24:09 PDT From: "Elizabeth Udall" Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? Julius wrote: >Does the name Marvin Gaye mean anything to anybody? He's near the top of >my list.< Amen! Let's not forget Curtis Mayfield either! Liz _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Dottie Hinkel Subject: The Greatest Singer/Songwriter Of Out Time Is... Dottie Hinkel, nee Moskowitz, a new JMDL subscriber still wet behind the ears and lost in the proverbial woods, believes La Mitchell is ONE of the greatest singer/songwriters of our time. Dottie cannot commit to opining who would be THE greatest singer/songwriter of our time, but that's just the way Dottie is. Dottie's favorite JM work is post-Court and Spark; she even likes Dog Eat Dog, which just about everyone still hates. Dottie believes Turbulent Indigo approaches brillance whilst Taming The Tiger, she is firmly convinced, was removed from the oven about three years too soon. Also, as Dottie is quite the atrology buff, she's curious if anyone knows the birthdate of the Russian on Prozac??? Cheers, Dottie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:11:19 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: HOSL and blindness > > Although Joni sings about "darkness" and "a diamond dog carrying a cup and a > cane" in HOSL, To me this line is about the woman. The first line of the song says 'he bought her a diamond for her throat'. It is like a dog collar, a symbol of possession and control. In the verse Bob quotes we have a Diamond dog carrying a cup and a cane Looking through a double glass Looking at too much pride and too much shame There's a black fly buzzing There's a heatwave burning in *her master's* voice again relegating the woman to the status of a dog or a pet, collared & trained to respond to 'her master's voice'. So, to me, the blindness she refers to in this verse is the woman's blindness. She can't see that she's been reduced to playing the role of the diamond dog. She even 'patrols that fence of his' like a watch dog (I'm not going to think about what that Latin drum refers to). I just don't want to believe the song's about Jose Feliciano. I just *don't* want to believe it! It isn't true, it isn't true, it isn't true, I'll wake up and realize it's all a dream (she has awake?), it isn't true, it isn't true, it isn't true........ Mark in Denial (call me Cleopatra, Honey, cause I'm the Queen of DeNial!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:52:49 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Harry's House > So the woman in Harry's House feels very stuck I think, lonely and unloved even > though she's surrounded by all the stuff that Harry's paid for, and she's almost > at the point where she's realizing all that. It's a very painful situation, for > both of them. My impression is that she's aware only of her disappointment and > doesn't understand why she feels that, so it comes out as bitterness in the > Harry's take-home pay line. And he has to be completely bewildered by this reaction from her. After all, he's been doing what he thinks she wants him to do all this time - making more money so she can spend more of it on yellow checkers for the kitchen and climbing ivy for the bath. I suddenly had a visualization of Harry kind of drifting along, going through the motions of this business trip, unable to shake off his bewilderment. He gets lost in his thoughts, remembering his wife back in school, sunning herself by the pool. He is 'reeled in' by her attractiveness, the shining, tanned body and youthful, alluring face. He swims to the edge of the pool and is about to climb out & join her when he is jolted back to the reality of the argument they had that very morning when she told him to take what he'd worked so hard for and stuff it. Gone are the warm sun & the glistening water and he is suddenly facing a woman approaching middle age who is full of anger, frustration and dissatisfaction, not the suntanned girl he fell for way back when. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:02:34 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? I agree, but I'd also add Elton John to this list, or should I say Sir Elton John - -Rose ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:35:53 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: At LAsT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Victor, Thoroughly enjoyed your post! Eloquently said. Took me right back to my early teens when I would race (also on my bike) to Towers Department Store-like a K-Mart- where LP's were $3.21 (CDN$) Likewise spent hours pondering before a purchase. Quite a significant time, indeed! Miles of Aisles is right up there on my list of personal Joni favourites. I still listen to it frequently. I saw Ms. Mitchell on that tour, at Pine Knob Music Theatre- outside of Detroit- when I was at university in Windsor, Ontario. Quite memorable. I just love Rainy Night House. And Pat Metheny has been a favourite of mine from his early days w/Gary Burton- when he was only 18 or 19! So, I obviously enjoy Shadows and Light. Congrats on your purchases- what a find! Hope you enjoy both as much as I do. Regards, Stephen in Vancouver NP: Wayne Shorter "Native Dancer" "Victor Johnson" on 09/19/2000 02:26:10 PM Please respond to "Victor Johnson" To: joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Stephen Epstein/Agmont) Subject: At LAsT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd been thinking last week that I'm really starting to believe in magic and manifestion but now I'm thoroughly convinced! I went to L5P to buy some cards and just happened to stop in at WaxnFacts Records as I hadn't been in some time. I was just kind of poking around and I walked over to the "M" section in used vinyl to thumb through the Joni section. And much to my surprise, instead of the usual worn out scratchy copies of Blue or LOTC, and Dog Eat Dogs, there was a Radio Promo copy of Mingus that looked like it had never been played. And if that wasn't enough, right behind it was a copy of Shadows and Light that likewise, looked like it might have been placed on a turntable once. But wait, there's more. I flipped up a couple more and lo and behold, Miles of Aisles was staring out at me in the same, virtually mint condition. Now I mentioned several times at Jonifest that I had never heard Miles of Aisles or Shadows and Light. It was not like I had been avoiding them but for some reason, I had never felt particularly inspired to go and pick them up. But I am so glad that I've waited because nothing equals the experience of going out and finding a record that you've never heard and taking it home and putting it on the turntable. I spent many years, all through junior high and high school, riding my bike to record stores, buying interesting albums, taking them home and listening to them over and over. I even used to wait till it was raining and then take my bike and ride the two or three miles to Sensous Sounds to peruse the records for an hour as I figured when it was pouring down rain, it was more of a challenge to venture out into the stormy weather, and I would value the records more since I had to go out in the rain to buy them. I remember spending hours perusing through albums, discovering new things, and bringing them home as if they were sacred, religious relics. And usually, if I liked one artist, the next time I went to the record store, I would buy 4 or 5 more of their albums and within a month I would have almost their whole catalog. Once, when I was buying Led Zeppelin Houses of the Holy, I was hit by a car coming out of a parking lot. The record flew through the air but miraculously it was undamaged. My bike was sort of smashed and I wasn't really hurt. And when I bought Jethro Tull Aqualung, I was sitting on a bench outside the mall, waiting for the bus, and I watched a con artist trick some lady out of her money by playing the "guess which nut the ball is under" game and then telling her he would double whatever money she had on her, and then taking it from her when she got it out. This was my first exposure to such trickery so it stuck in my mind a long time. Wow! I didn't know buying a couple of albums could send me down memory lane so far back. But anyway I'm sitting here listening to Joni sing so I must say I'm very happy right now. And all for a whopping twenty bucks! Victor NP: Miles of Aisles- A Case of You ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:4 +1000 From: john low Subject: RE: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? I've waited a while but no-one has mentioned her - a glaring omission from the list IMO - Sandy Denny!!! If Paul Castle was still around (where are you Paul?) I know he would support me. Cheers, John (enjoying beautiful Spring weather in the Olympic city) __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:26:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Dottie Hinkel Subject: the best singer/songwriter of our time What???!!!! No one's yet mentioned Brittney Spears???!!! Oh, the humanity!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:26:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: klein's sign SJC dottie, i've been asking myself the same question for quite some time. now in the good friends video, there's a part in which you see two scorpions chasing each other, and as klein appears in the video i always assumed that he was a scorpio like joni. but that's a really unwarranted assumption. he has the looks of an earth sign to me. wallyk >Also, as Dottie is quite the > atrology buff, she's curious if anyone knows the > birthdate of the Russian on Prozac??? Cheers, Dottie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 00:47:42 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Harry's House/Arrangement Mark or Travis wrote: > And he has to be completely bewildered by this reaction from her. > After all, he's been doing what he thinks she wants him to do all this > time - making more money.... I agree, Mark. He's playing the traditional male role, but in this particular relationship it's not enough. There's such a sad distance between people in this song. The line "paper the walls to keep their gut reactions hid" has always gotten to me. Hiding emotions within a family might keep things quiet but it sure kills the connections. I mean once there's no emotional honesty, what is there? .... more things to buy Another thing that strikes me is that Harry's memories are of the *public* swimming pool, not the one that's probably in his backyard now. So before materialism became the most important element of their relationship, there was simple beauty and simple dreams and it had nothing to do with how much money he made. > Gone are the warm sun & the glistening water and he is suddenly facing > a woman approaching middle age who is full of anger, frustration and > dissatisfaction, not the suntanned girl he fell for way back when. I always think of Harry as the same guy that Joni sings about in The Arrangement where he's rather new to the materialistic grind and Joni's trying to remind him of other things he could do, maybe dreams he'd had, and warning him about the emotional deadliness of the path he's on. Apparently he didn't listen to her, or couldn't understand what she was saying, and five years later in Harry's House he's completely involved in that path and it's as deadly as Joni predicted. The wife is no longer pleased to be part of the arrangement. The warning that Joni gives in these songs, the idea of "you could have been more" so don't settle for something that doesn't suit you ... that really influenced me. Maybe without hearing Joni's songs my path would have been the same, but I really took that idea to heart, to do what I'm made to do and not get caught up in what I'm "supposed" to do. So I got close to "an arrangment" type life a few times, but when it was final decision time, always said no to that. Until writing this I've never thought much about how Joni's influenced me, but this, yes, definitely I agree with Joni on this. Be true to your inner being no matter what and then things will be ok (all right, so Joni didn't say that last part, but I think it's true, even though getting to "ok" is not always easy). Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #372 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?