From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #370 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, September 18 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 370 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Prequel in Richard's house ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Yates is Dead [catman ] Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house [B Merrill ] Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? [Frances Liccione ] Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house ["Kakki" ] Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? ["mags woman" ] Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? ["Kakki" ] Almost Famous [CarltonCT@aol.com] Hiya!! ["Martin Giles" ] Foni Mitchell [Fonimitchell@aol.com] Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? [MGVal@aol.com] SJC, the song "come love" from Both Sides Now [James O Phillips ] Australia Aglow [dsk ] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? ["Helen M. Adcock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:07:09 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Prequel in Richard's house You're right, of course... Richard is Chuck's middle name like Willy is Graham Nash's. (also her Dad's name but I think he prefers Bill) >From: Pitassi, Mary >Jamie: I don't disagree with any of this. In fact, I remember reading >somewhere, perhaps even on this list, that the original for "Richard" was >none other than Chuck Mitchell. Still, I do see links between Richard's >"domestication" and opting for a life that isn't truly alive emotionally and >the behavior of the men in the other songs you mention. And his material >gifts to his wife, regardless of whether she is demanding them or he simply >feels compelled to give them, seem closely related to his empty life in >Joni's recounting of the tale. Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:03:26 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house Jamie Z. says: >But The Arrangement and Harry's House and THOSL are all of a similar theme: >a successful man, living the high life and having personal problems with >their wives. The Arrangement was written for a film of the same name >starring Kirk Douglas. Bruce asks >Is it on the soundtrack?? No, the producers dumped it at the last minute and went for something instrumental. And according to Chaka Khan, THOSL is about Jose >Feliciano... apparently. >Wow! Can you tell us anymore about that attribution? Unfortunately I can't. On the Jazz On A Summersday tapes Chaka introduces this song with something like, 'Joni went to visit Jose Feliciano and wrote this song after the visit.' Other than that she is being a bit vague about the details. If I were Joni I would ask Chaka not to mention this as it may put her in that whole Jackson Brown area of song attribution.... Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:17:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Yates is Dead Paula Yates, ex wife of Bob Geldolf and ex lover of Hutchenson(?) of INXS is dead. She has either committed suiced or was murdered. In the year that Michael was found dead, Paula also found out that the man she ythought was her father , Jesse Yates, was not and a man she hated, Hughie Green, was her biological father. A very sad woman and a tragic end. She leaves her three daughters(or was it four?). - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:25:34 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house << Unfortunately I can't. On the Jazz On A Summersday tapes Chaka introduces this song with something like, 'Joni went to visit Jose Feliciano and wrote this song after the visit.' Other than that she is being a bit vague about the details. >> Well, Chaka was a fountain of misinformation that day, introducing songs and attributing them to the wrong records, and was not able to recall the words to "Help Me" for the encore. I'm certainly not slamming Ms. Khan, her bubbly enthusiasm was a real joy that day, but she was as babbly as she was bubbly and I wouldn't take any of her "background facts" to the bank... Bob NP: EmmyLou, "Love Hurts" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:19:47 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house But if that's all Chaka had to say, it doesn't imply that Jose as a model for Harry. As the quote stands, it could just be that Jose played her something on his guitar and some melodic, rhythmic, harmonic element got Joni's creative wheels a-spinning... and she rushed home and wrote her masterpiece. Or maybe he just happened to have his sprinklers going? The impetus could happen in all kinds of ways. Thinking of it this link, it stikes me that Jose could do a great acoustic version of HOSL, voice and guitar. Bruce > And according to Chaka Khan, THOSL is about Jose >>Feliciano... apparently. > >>Wow! Can you tell us anymore about that attribution? >Unfortunately I can't. On the Jazz On A Summersday tapes Chaka introduces >this song with something like, 'Joni went to visit Jose Feliciano and wrote >this song after the visit.' >Other than that she is being a bit vague about the details. If I were Joni I >would ask Chaka not to mention this as it may put her in that whole Jackson >Brown area of song attribution.... ------------------------------ Date: 17 Sep 00 07:47:17 PDT From: Frances Liccione Subject: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? What do you mean by "cop out"? The book described a period in history when women were not supposed to work outside of the home, vote, or have any of those other basic rights. How is that a cop out and who would opt for that type of a lifestyle? These days, believe it or not, it is just as hard on women who have to work, come home, work again in the house, pay for childcare, etc. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comment. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:10:46 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house From: B Merrill > But if that's all Chaka had to say, it doesn't imply that Jose as a model > for Harry. As the quote stands, it could just be that Jose played her > something on his guitar and some melodic, rhythmic, harmonic element got > Joni's creative wheels a-spinning... There are however references to blindness: the repeated "darkness" Tubes gone... No color no contrast Diamond dog carrying a cup and a cane He gave her his darkness to regret She's also patrolling "that fence of his to a Latin drum". Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:24:42 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: A Joni Moment Pat, I heard the same song "How Do You Stop" at our local pizza and grinder joint. My daughter and I walked in and she immediately started singing the song. It was funny as here is this pizza place with all the young people working and my almost 16 year old walks in and knows all the lyrics. They were looking at her as if she were from another planet. What was most bizarre, though, was after we had left she was still humming the song, this self professed Joni hater. The same day in the afternoon my daughter Stacy came out of her room singing "Don't it always seem to go..." so this was a wonderful moment for me. I am hoping that at sometime in their futures they will understand Joni's music for what it really is, art inspired by muse not money. NP: (NOW PAYING) $1.72 a gallon in Northern Michigan Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:43:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house I agree that a reading of the lyrics makes the Jose Feliciano connection very plausible. I don't see the lyrics as dissing Jose so much, but, rather, as again lamenting yet another trapped couple. If there are any digs, they seem to to me to be toward the wife. The sense I get is that she may have manipulated or married him for his money and fame, not thinking so much about what kind of trade-off there might be for her room full of Chippendale that nobody sits in. However, the darkness alluded to could also be to more than his lack of sight. Kakki Patricia wrote: > There are however references to blindness: > > the repeated "darkness" > > Tubes gone... > No color no contrast > > Diamond dog carrying a cup and a cane > > He gave her his darkness to regret > > She's also patrolling "that fence of his to a Latin drum". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:58:08 EDT From: "mags woman" Subject: Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? >From: Frances Liccione >Reply-To: Frances Liccione >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? >Date: 17 Sep 00 07:47:17 PDT > >What do you mean by "cop out"? The book described a period in history when >women were not supposed to work outside of the home, vote, or have any of >those other basic rights. How is that a cop out and who would opt for that >type of a lifestyle? These days, believe it or not, it is just as hard on >women who have to work, come home, work again in the house, pay for >childcare, >etc. > >Perhaps I am misinterpreting your comment. > I will chime in and say I agree with your comments here. I will also add that the whole notion of "choice" is highly misunderstood. IMHO and in my experience and listening to the experiences of others. Mags >____________________________________________________________________ >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at >http://home.netscape.com/webmail _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 10:00:41 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? > What do you mean by "cop out"? The book described a >period in history when women were not supposed to work >outside of the home, vote, or have any of those other basic >rights. How is that a cop out and who would opt for that >type of a lifestyle? These days, believe it or not, it is just as >hard on women who have to work, come home, work again in >the house, pay for childcare, etc. Frances, you make some very good points. Also, I think the men and women characters portrayed in Hissing of Sumemr Lawns came from a much different era than now and should be considered in the context of the time. It was common for many women in the Hissing "era" to have given up their own education and ambitions to back their man. MOst of my mother's friends cut short their college or career aspiration to work to put their husbands through college, sometimes with a couple of babies in tow. The husbands all eventually became successful professionally and financially and their wives all ended up with the house on the hill beautifully decorated. The couples had come a long way from their beginnings. Yet once they had achieved the pinnacle, several were unhappy, or bored or somehow dissatisfied. A few of the husbands abandoned the wives for younger women, and in a couple cases, them women found themselves approaching middle age with no sense of their own identity. Some returned to college or to pursuing their own original interests in order to "find" themselves again after putting themselves second to their husbands and children for so many years. These sotries seem a little dated now, but they were common back in the 70s when Joni observed them Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:56:51 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Almost Famous Just wanted to weigh in on ALMOST FAMOUS which I thought was a sweet, charming and original movie, and I think, very true in its depiction of the era. To me, Billy Crudup looks very much like James Taylor circa 1972 with his mustache and shoulder length hair. I have heard that the fictional band STILL WATER is an amalgamation of several bands that Cameron Crowe "covered" as a journalist, but that the film's story bears the most resemblance to events surrounding the Eagles. My favorite moment in the film is when the kid goes to his sister's bedroom to look through the gift of records she has left him as his "liberation" from their mother. He goes through these albums, every one of which I owned myself. Among them were "Tommy" by the Who, Led Zeppelin 2, the Stones "Get Yer Ya Yas Out," and of course, Joni Mitchell's "Blue." I think there is an error here at this point in the movie, because if I remember correctly, the time was designated as 1969, and as most people on this list know, BLUE did not come out until some time later. For me, those records and their incredible content really did seem to be a portal into a different place, a way of escaping the blandness of the suburbs, mythic in their essence, a means of helping me find out who I was and leading me to my present life. It's possible that today's young people feel that way about their own artists, but it's hard to imagine that the present wave of music has as much power, as much resonance, and was quite as ground breaking. ALMOST FAMOUS was one big wonderful nostalgic journey! Clark NP: Pet Shop Boys - Behavior ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:18:17 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Hiya!! Hi guys Great to hear from you. As you know, we suffer on this side of the Atlantic from not having had Joni play over here in public for nearly a generation. Consequently we who know her music are in a tiny minority. What a wonderful idea to from a 'tribute' band for JM! I for one would love to hear you play - do you ever play further afield than Birmingham? Are some or all of you newcomers to the list (pardon my ignorance if you are not)? If you are new, welcome, welcome. (In fact welcome anyway)! atb, Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:34:53 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Foni Mitchell Thanks to everybody who has contacted us in such a short space of time - it's great to hear from you, and is very encouraging. It's also reassuring to know that there are people out there to play to! Please keep in touch, and we will let you know what's happening and where we're playing. Keep the e-mails coming, and please let us know where you're from. It would also be interesting to know which JM songs you'd like to hear live. Very best wishes. FM. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:39:26 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? In a message dated 9/17/00 10:21:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Also, I think the men and women characters portrayed in Hissing of Summer Lawns came from a much different era than now and should be considered in the context of the time. It was common for many women in the Hissing "era" to have given up their own education and ambitions to back their man. >> It doesn't seem that possible, but Kakki's point about considering the HOSL characters as being in a much different era is very true. I think that a recent Times or Newsweek article points out that less than 30 years ago, in seemingly "modern" and "liberated" times, women were still running a far, far second. Single women, wanting to purchase homes or cars, still needed co-signers. Financial planners, mortgage officers, car dealers, all wanted to speak to the "man of the house," in lieu of dealing with the "girl." And while this is all true, Joni's portraits are still very relevant and timeless. Women AND men STILL give up spiritual growth and adult maturity to compete in suburban materialism. The woman can have her career, but recent surveys show that the burden for home and children still fall mainly on her shoulders. Not to malign men, though. It's a choice in many ways. Just as people chose to stay in or get out of relationships, people often chose to not explore alternatives and to take the "easy way" of going with status quo. Mind you, I'm not talking about battered women, but rather adults who chose to give into pressure from families to marry or pressure from spouses or friends to achieve. There's nothing wrong with buying into the American Dream, but over the years, I've found that you simply can't buy into it and hope the flow takes you to a good place. Both men and women can chose to say: "this does not work, it's not healthy for me," and continue their work on their path. MG np: Christinia Argula's Spanish CD by my 10 year old. I am going to chose to not listen. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:44:44 -0500 From: James O Phillips Subject: SJC, the song "come love" from Both Sides Now On her album Both Sides Now, Joni does a wonderful version of the song "Come Love" (the one where it goes, comes love, nothing can be done) Anyways, for fans of that song, on her album "Speak Love" Ella Fitzgerald does a wonderful reading of that song, accompanied only by guitarist Joe Pass. I highly recommend checking that version out of that wonderfuls song. James Phillips Visit my updated web page http://homestead.juno.com/jamespatrick7556/JamesthePage.html I've added links to my JamesthePage2 and GCAP towards the bottom of the page. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:59:58 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: James Taylor and Joni Bob wrote: >>"Don't come to me with your sorrows anymore >>I don't need to know how bad you're feeling today >>Goodbye lonely Blue, it shall all come true >>Miss November, I detect a frown" >I think it's to Joni..."Miss November" acknowledging her >birthday...don't know how David Blue figures in or if he >even does. I think given the tone of the song, the opening >lines are pretty bold, I mean typically one would say that >they would be willing to always "be there" and listen to >their sorrows and troubles, (and pack their suspenders at >a moment's notice as well!). And I finally found the time to reply (God, life's hectic sometimes)! I don't think Taylor was refering to the song "Blue", rather to the album as a whole, and it's somewhat melancholy theme (with exceptions obviously, Carey, My Old Man, etc.) James also had a few problems of his own to sort out - a heroin addiction, the suicide of a friend (Fire and Rain), although I'm not sure on the timing of these events - which may account for his "Don't come to me with your sorrows" line. Maybe it was more of a "I've got enough problems of my own!" >Just my 2 cents..."Mud Slide Slim" might just be JT's finest >hour, although I'm awfully fond of "Gorilla" and "Sweet Baby >James" as well... I agree on Mud Slide Slim being his best - I'd forgottten how good it was - definitely up there with Blue and Tapestry! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:16:35 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Australia Aglow "Australia Aglow As Youthful Star Gets Two Golds" That was one of the headlines on the front page of the NY Times today (Sunday), along with a great picture of triumphant Ian Thorpe and his teammates. Thought the aussie "joni people" might like to know about the positive attention he and Australia are getting. And NOW, Angela, I know what you meant by "he's a man-fish". What an amazing athlete! Although Tom Dolan's not bad either, and Gary Hill was almost in there. That man-fish is something else though. Very impressive. And because of the joni list, and your comment, I even recognized Ian Thorpe's name. In fact, knew it before I knew the Americans' names. That's a cool turnaround. Debra Shea "Takats, Angela" wrote: > ...I'm hoping "us-aussies" will > kick ur US butt in the pool very soon.....watch out for our Ian Thorpe - > he's a man-fish ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:13:23 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? Relayer wrote: >>Does everyone here think that Joni is THE best >>singer/songwriter there is and ever has been? I know >>she herself thinks she's among the best in the world. >>I only wish she wrote less love songs and more songs >>about other subjects. to which Gene replied: >that's why i'm on this list. not only that, she has the best looking and >the most erudite fans in this dimension. have a good day folks. gene Which is why my signature has the quote it does - and no one has ever commented on it! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:15:47 -0600 From: Tammi Campbell Subject: JMDL This is a first time post -- I have been lurking for the past few months... Just wanted to note that I was the last one out of the 'voices' exhibition at the Mendel tonight... and early tomorrow the prepators will be packing the 87 works into crates and shiping them back to Joni. I am feeling a bit in shock now that the show is over and done with -- Over the period of the exhibition I have had a chance to meet many of you as I was one of the two animators for the exhibition. For all of you that made it-- thanks for your insight and enthusiam -- it made the summer just that more fulfilling and inspirational. A final count indicates there were just over 80,000 visitors that came to see the show -- which is incredible for Saskatoon. Take care and goodnight. Tammi ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #370 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?